Test cyp + Proviron 1st cycle

[lefty556]

8 weeks into TRT, first lab results back. Attached is what they tested. Went from ~398 total T to 1313 total T. Not sure what free T is, clinic didn't test for that. Currently taking 200mg Test Cyp a week and 500 iu HCG a week. No AI currently taken, but on hand in case.

44 y/o, 6'1", 188lbs. Toned, but looking to add on muscle size and get those abs. Workout in home gym 4 days a week, with about 3-4 days of cardio. Looking to blast some Test Cyp for 12 weeks. What Test C dosage is it recommended I go to for a first "cycle"? I was hoping to add in just Proviron 50mg/day too. Can that run 12 weeks or how long? Thanks!

 

[Bluntson]

I too am on trt at 200/week.
Congrats on making the choice to run your first cycle. You will love it. And it sounds like you are on the right track.
I would recommend going with test at 500/week.
Proviron is a good addition. 50mg/day is perfect. If you can split it into 25mg am / 25mg pm all the better.
500 iu HCG is also very good. Keep doing that through the cycle if you are able.
Make sure to have an AI on hand. I personally prefer aromasin. Much easier on my system than arimidex.
Only bloodwork will tell you how much AI you will need, but I never need any more than 10 mg aromasin EOD. Generally I will take 10 mg M/W/F.
With this type of cycle you might consider adding in cialis at 5 - 10 mg / day. Even 10mg EOD would be good.
Running proviron and cialis together, alongside your test, you will see those Free Test numbers jump way up.
It is a magical combination.
So the cycle would be set up like this:

Test Cyp @ 500mg/week
Proviron @ 50mg/day split am & pm
HCG @ 500iu/week
Aromasin @ 10mg/M, W, F
Cialis @ 5 - 10mg/day

 

[JD1155]

I will say this... Proviron is simply an amazing compound. Truly feel amazing when taking it

 

[big_rich]

4-500 is a great first run then after you just go back to your trt dose.

 

[Wiseguy]

I too am on trt at 200/week.
Congrats on making the choice to run your first cycle. You will love it. And it sounds like you are on the right track.
I would recommend going with test at 500/week.
Proviron is a good addition. 50mg/day is perfect. If you can split it into 25mg am / 25mg pm all the better.
500 iu HCG is also very good. Keep doing that through the cycle if you are able.
Make sure to have an AI on hand. I personally prefer aromasin. Much easier on my system than arimidex.
Only bloodwork will tell you how much AI you will need, but I never need any more than 10 mg aromasin EOD. Generally I will take 10 mg M/W/F.
With this type of cycle you might consider adding in cialis at 5 - 10 mg / day. Even 10mg EOD would be good.
Running proviron and cialis together, alongside your test, you will see those Free Test numbers jump way up.
It is a magical combination.
So the cycle would be set up like this:

Test Cyp @ 500mg/week
Proviron @ 50mg/day split am & pm
HCG @ 500iu/week
Aromasin @ 10mg/M, W, F
Cialis @ 5 - 10mg/day

Just my opinion my friend and you do what works for you, but at 200mg of test a week you don't need HCG and AI. Everyone that knows me are aware how I feel about AI's and the damage it causes more that benefits. In over 30 years of cycling I have only taking AI's for a very short period of time due to high volume and blood proven that E2 was extremely high. I doubt your E2 at 200mg requires AI. If you haven't done so go ahead and get blood work and see what your estrogen levels are before taking AI's. Also I have three kids and never had to use HCG.

Again if it works for you great, just sharing my personal experience.

Also have a post regarding dangers of AI. You might want to take a look.

 

[Bluntson]

Just my opinion my friend and you do what works for you, but at 200mg of test a week you don't need HCG and AI. Everyone that knows me are aware how I feel about AI's and the damage it causes more that benefits. In over 30 years of cycling I have only taking AI's for a very short period of time due to high volume and blood proven that E2 was extremely high. I doubt your E2 at 200mg requires AI. If you haven't done so go ahead and get blood work and see what your estrogen levels are before taking AI's. Also I have three kids and never had to use HCG.

Again if it works for you great, just sharing my personal experience.

Also have a post regarding dangers of AI. You might want to take a look.

Agree 100%.
I should have been more clear.
The hcg and ai I meant for the cycle @ 500mg test.
No need for the ai & hcg when on your regular trt @ 200 / week.

 

[lefty556]

Appreciate it guys. My provider game me 1MG anastrozole tablets which I cut into 4 pieces. I haven't taken any yet.

I'll get some aromasin to have just in case the 500mg test shows me way up on e2 on the next lab test.

The proviron should help reduce estradiol a little bit?

 

[dog1dog2]

I will say this... Proviron is simply an amazing compound. Truly feel amazing when taking it

I was doing 500 test and 50mg proviron split 2x per day. After 1 week of proviron I felt like shit!! I stopped the proviron for 1 week and then went back on at 25 mg per day and felt much much better. Not sure what was going on. I am 64 years old, so who the hell knows!

 

[lefty556]

I was doing 500 test and 50mg proviron split 2x per day. After 1 week of proviron I felt like shit!! I stopped the proviron for 1 week and then went back on at 25 mg per day and felt much much better. Not sure what was going on. I am 64 years old, so who the hell knows!

@dog1dog2 where you taking any AIs with that? or just test and proviron? Also, what days were you pinning test on?

 

[lefty556]

Just my opinion my friend and you do what works for you, but at 200mg of test a week you don't need HCG and AI. Everyone that knows me are aware how I feel about AI's and the damage it causes more that benefits. In over 30 years of cycling I have only taking AI's for a very short period of time due to high volume and blood proven that E2 was extremely high. I doubt your E2 at 200mg requires AI. If you haven't done so go ahead and get blood work and see what your estrogen levels are before taking AI's. Also I have three kids and never had to use HCG.

Again if it works for you great, just sharing my personal experience.

Also have a post regarding dangers of AI. You might want to take a look.

@Wiseguy right now my estradiol sits at 56.7 pg/mL while taking 200mg test cyp and 500iu HCG every 3.5 days. Doing the HCG just because I just felt sexual function was a little off. This could have just been my transition going on TRT though since it was only 6 weeks into TRT that I felt that way and added it. I'm assuming the 56.7 e2 number would go down very slightly if I stopped the 500iu dose, but it's probably not much. I seem to feel fine at 56.7 e2 otherwise. I do take 5mg cialis daily as well.

 

[Wiseguy]

@Wiseguy right now my estradiol sits at 56.7 pg/mL while taking 200mg test cyp and 500iu HCG every 3.5 days. Doing the HCG just because I just felt sexual function was a little off. This could have just been my transition going on TRT though since it was only 6 weeks into TRT that I felt that way and added it. I'm assuming the 56.7 e2 number would go down very slightly if I stopped the 500iu dose, but it's probably not much. I seem to feel fine at 56.7 e2 otherwise. I do take 5mg cialis daily as well.

I always tell everyone you should do what works best for you. Now with that said I think you would benefit more replacing the HCG with Proviron.

 

[dog1dog2]

@dog1dog2 where you taking any AIs with that? or just test and proviron? Also, what days were you pinning test on?

No AI's they also make me feel lousy. Pin 2x's week. Still doing 500 test and 25mg proviron and feeling great.

 

[BCeagle]

I used to get an itch in my breast at 500 text c and would use an AI, but never had it at 200.

 

[Battousai]

Masteron and Proviron over AI's. I'm on 560mg Test, 350 NPP, and with Masteron/Proviron in the mix I don't need any AI's.

 

[lefty556]

No AI's they also make me feel lousy. Pin 2x's week. Still doing 500 test and 25mg proviron and feeling great.

What size pins you doing that much with twice a week?

 

[lefty556]

If my levels are 1313 total t at 200mg a week, how high should I go and what benefits would there be for muscle? I wonder if I'm at that level because I'm only 8 weeks in and it'll slowly go down?

 

[Astro95]

If my levels are 1313 total t at 200mg a week, how high should I go and what benefits would there be for muscle? I wonder if I'm at that level because I'm only 8 weeks in and it'll slowly go down?

Suggestion to your question about 1st cycle. Mine was what almost everyone suggests 500mg per week, BUT if I could do it all over again I would’ve done 300-350mg. With your bloods I’d do 350mg per week. Should put you maybe a little over 2k? Or right around there which is plenty of test to make plenty of gains. You can make PLENTY of gains at your current dose, it’s all about your diet and training, rest.

If we all had the $ or the seriousness in this to hire a coach who knows diet, training and anabolics we’d all be WAY improved in our physiques while more than likely taking way less gear.

At 200mg per week, 1300 total test is about what you’d expect. Everyone varies for me personally 125mg - 150mg is what I like for true TRT which I like to be right around 1000. That number wont go down unless you lower your dose.

 

[Jbswole40]

Nothing to add.gre a t advice on here.
Test and proviron is great together for me I don't need ai.on 500 test..if your e2 was at 56 on 200 test..I'd like to see your bloods now with the added Provi

 

[lefty556]

Suggestion to your question about 1st cycle. Mine was what almost everyone suggests 500mg per week, BUT if I could do it all over again I would’ve done 300-350mg. With your bloods I’d do 350mg per week. Should put you maybe a little over 2k? Or right around there which is plenty of test to make plenty of gains. You can make PLENTY of gains at your current dose, it’s all about your diet and training, rest.

If we all had the $ or the seriousness in this to hire a coach who knows diet, training and anabolics we’d all be WAY improved in our physiques while more than likely taking way less gear.

At 200mg per week, 1300 total test is about what you’d expect. Everyone varies for me personally 125mg - 150mg is what I like for true TRT which I like to be right around 1000. That number wont go down unless you lower your dose.

Yeah I'm kinda thinking 350mg test a week now. I've made a lot of progress in 2 months and think I'll ride 350mg for a cycle and see.

I could be wrong but the 500mg start seems to be to find how one responds at that level for future cycles. Which I get....how am I to know if I need aromasin at 500mg. I can always do 500mg trt blast only second cycle to find my e response. Then if/when I want to add more compounds I know my baseline.

Slow and steady, trying to play this smart.

 

[lefty556]

Nothing to add.gre a t advice on here.
Test and proviron is great together for me I don't need ai.on 500 test..if your e2 was at 56 on 200 test..I'd like to see your bloods now with the added Provi

I can pull e2 bloods again in a month and see. I'm curious myself how the proviron effects it. I'm hoping to add maybe masteron and deca too maybe 2 cycles from now.

 

[Draig]

@Wiseguy right now my estradiol sits at 56.7 pg/mL while taking 200mg test cyp and 500iu HCG every 3.5 days. Doing the HCG just because I just felt sexual function was a little off. This could have just been my transition going on TRT though since it was only 6 weeks into TRT that I felt that way and added it. I'm assuming the 56.7 e2 number would go down very slightly if I stopped the 500iu dose, but it's probably not much. I seem to feel fine at 56.7 e2 otherwise. I do take 5mg cialis daily as well.

For me, hcg jack my E2 way up. Required me to be on an AI, I dropped the hcg, and I dropped the AI. Felt much better after that.

Imo, first cycle 300-500 test c per week, I also like your idea of adding Proviron.



List Available Here

 

[Astro95]

Yeah I'm kinda thinking 350mg test a week now. I've made a lot of progress in 2 months and think I'll ride 350mg for a cycle and see.

I could be wrong but the 500mg start seems to be to find how one responds at that level for future cycles. Which I get....how am I to know if I need aromasin at 500mg. I can always do 500mg trt blast only second cycle to find my e response. Then if/when I want to add more compounds I know my baseline.

Slow and steady, trying to play this smart.

The 500mg of testosterone for a 1st cycle really comes from the “ignorance” I believe that most users have when they begin taking gear, nothing else. Guys think 500mg is a minimum effective dose of Test to start or a beginner dose which is not.

Most guys who been recommending these dosages for beginner cycles never ran bloodwork, it was nothing more than guessing, but as you can see, based on your current bloods and future bloods, 500mg put “most” people as we’re all different in the 3000+ Total test range which is a ton of test.

You want to make the most progress with the least amount because when or if you plateau you can either back off call that cycle good and let your body recover for the next blast or up the dose and push past that plateau a little further. If you start at 500mg in no time you’ll be running 750etc

Start 300-350 then you can jump to 500 some cycles down the road. Then 600 and so on while making a ton of gains. Instead of guys who have the same gains as a natural on 500mg + of test.

You’ll know how much AI you need or if any at each dose increment by getting bloodwork done each time. If you run 300-350 get bloodwork and if Aromasin is needed deploy it and get bloods again that way you’ll know what you need there. When or if you go to 500mg you get labs done again while on your old effective AI dosage and see where you’re at there and so on.

 

[Big Puppy]

I feel better on hcg. better libido. I also take aromasin on 250/wk of test. yes, I don't need as much with proviron, but without, I need an AI even on that low of a dose

 

[lefty556]

I feel better on hcg. better libido. I also take aromasin on 250/wk of test. yes, I don't need as much with proviron, but without, I need an AI even on that low of a dose

What was your aromasin dosage and schedule? I'm going to run another week or so and check my e2. Also, did you recall your e2 numbers prior to taking the ai?

 

[Big Puppy]

What was your aromasin dosage and schedule? I'm going to run another week or so and check my e2. Also, did you recall your e2 numbers prior to taking the ai?

here we go.
I take 25 mg script exemestane 3 to 4 times a week.
with less than 300mg of test.
keeps E2 in the range

here we go. come at me

 

[CoachCabo]

My opinion based on my experience is that the HCG is why your estrogens are high. A TRT clinic prescribes HCG and then they will prescribe an AI to counteract it. At 200mg a week, it is very, very unlikely you need any estrogen control whatsoever. The only way to tell is to do 8 weeks or so with JUST testosterone and then draw blood to see if you are a converter/aromatizer. I would also suggest you get a test at that time for DHT. Some people don't convert testosterone to estrogen but might be a DHT converter. Some do both, some convert neither. A few people are BIG converters to estrogens.

 

[wesley_swolle]

My opinion based on my experience is that the HCG is why your estrogens are high. A TRT clinic prescribes HCG and then they will prescribe an AI to counteract it. At 200mg a week, it is very, very unlikely you need any estrogen control whatsoever. The only way to tell is to do 8 weeks or so with JUST testosterone and then draw blood to see if you are a converter/aromatizer. I would also suggest you get a test at that time for DHT. Some people don't convert testosterone to estrogen but might be a DHT converter. Some do both, some convert neither. A few people are BIG converters to estrogens.

My 'clinic' tried pushing a test cyp/Anastrazol blend on me. I literally argued with the PA(yup, a physician's assistant) that I didn't need or want an AI in my test. It's sad to me how they rope the uninformed into something they possibly won't need.
I'm also prescribed hcg, but I'll probably just stockpile it

 

[CoachCabo]

My 'clinic' tried pushing a test cyp/Anastrazol blend on me. I literally argued with the PA(yup, a physician's assistant) that I didn't need or want an AI in my test. It's sad to me how they rope the uninformed into something they possibly won't need.
I'm also prescribed hcg, but I'll probably just stockpile it

As I have said before, these medical people were the naysayers for decades and extolled the dangers of hormones...or at least the dangers of testosterone. Now they are the "experts". A fucking joke.

I wish they could be like an anesthesiologist I had once. Before going into surgery he started to ask a few standard questions. I went ahead and gave him a run down on what works and what doesn't with me. He sat down his clipboard and listened. I thought for a moment he was annoyed but when I asked, he said "Quite the opposite. You have had over a dozen surgeries and know far better what works for you than I could ever guess."
So refreshing. He came by after to ask if he could give me a shot of dilaudid to hold me over for a few hors and reiterated how appreciative I was for being forward with my care.

 

[lefty556]

So how early into my test blast and proviron cycle can/should I take labs to see my e2 numbers?

It's been about 2 weeks since I started, and I quit hcg 2 weeks ago so I can get an idea.

 

[wesley_swolle]

So how early into my test blast and proviron cycle can/should I take labs to see my e2 numbers?

It's been about 2 weeks since I started, and I quit hcg 2 weeks ago so I can get an idea.

How many total weeks is your blast? I typically get bloodwork halfway through.