ArgonCoagulator
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Very interesting read. They cite sources toward the end. a guy in a YouTube comment on Dr. Thomas O'Connors recent video on Deca recommended this article to me:
https://www.reddit.com/r/PEDsR/comments/812n58/nandrolone_deca_dick_real_cause_and_potential/
As I mentioned earlier in /r/peds, deca dick is not due to prolactin, is not due to estrogen, is not due to progesterone, it isnt because it is 19nor.
Nandrolone activates progesterone at 1/20th of the affinity of progesterone, thereby acts as an antagonist in most cases.
Nandrolone has Dopamine modulation effect, similar but different to Trenbolone.
Nandrolone through reward pathway modulation, can attenuate dopaminergic response.
DHT is not a by product of Nandrolone. DHT can be further metabolised to Neurosteroids which have potent antianxiety and antidepressant effect. DHN does have similar metabolites but lack these pharmacology.
Nandrolone and testosterone, both exogenously, in studies increase prolactin equally at equal doses
Nandrolone produces enough E1 that can be converted to E2 naturally by the body. Optimal doses to match natural levels would be around 300mg/wk.
Combination of testosterone and nandrolone = induction of 3b HSD subtype 1, which is involved in the conversion of E1 to E2, thereby testosterone synergises the estrogenic potency of nandrolone moral of the story, dont run it with testosterone.
Nandrolone produces DHN as a metabolite via 5-alpha reductase, this acts as partial agonist. And competitively displaces DHT from androgenic tissue, like in the penis.
DHT antagonises Estrogen in androgenic tissues and other places such as breast tissue. The lack of androgenic stimulation via DHN causes gyno symptoms to occur even with normal estrogen levels (NO it isn't from progesterone, or prolactin).
DHN can displace DHT and can partially activate the androgen receptors in androgenic tissues such as prostate and hair follicles, this can actually reverse prostate hypertrophy and cause hair regrowth.
The penis requires androgenic stimulation, which unfortunately you cannot get with Nandrolone. Hence why people run high dose Testosterone with Nandrolone to counteract the sex side effects, the concentration of DHT from the testosterone has to be significantly higher than DHN from nandrolone so that DHN does not displace DHT from the receptor.
What is actually causing 'deca dick'
- lack of neurosteroid production from DHT
- lack of penile androgen receptor stimulation AND brain androgen receptor stimulation
Dopaminergic response issues
What is not causing 'deca dick'
- not running testosterone or enough testosterone with Nandrolone
- Progesterone
- Estrogen
- Prolactin
So how do we solve this issue? Im against running testosterone with nandrolone. But there is a cure!
run 0.5mg-1mg Finasteride with your Nandrolone cycle everyday. This will inhibit a good portion of DHN. Results in 50% increase in androgenic activity and optimal stimulation of androgen receptors in androgenic tissue. This cures deca dick problem, it resolves psychological arousal (due to optimal androgen receptor stimulation in the brain)
But we are left with some issues. Once you do this, your skin will instantly get oily as fuck, you'll have acne out of no where and you lose some of the benefits of DHN. Plus, you want to fuck 24/7 and your dick agrees with you also. It seems like the dopaminergic issues resolve after the brain androgen receptors are optimally stimulated without DHN (as nandrolone will act as the parent agonist, without DHN antagonising Nandrolone).
Also, gyno symptoms would also disappear due to breast tissue estrogen receptor is antagonised by Nandrolone (no DHN to stop this).
So if we inhibit the formation of DHN, then nandrolone does not metabolise to a piss ass weak androgen in these local tissues (DHN works to antagonise nandrolones true androgenic potency as well, hence DHN actually reduces prostate size, and restores hair growth). With 5-AR inhibition, DHN does not get produced when nandrolone crosses local 5-AR tissues and thus instead would activate those local receptors much more potently.
Just some calculations.
lets take the following into consideration.
Nandrolone is a weak substrate for SHBG. So, overall, it is a much better anabolic than testosterone, even if you take the 125:37 vs 100:100 profile into consideration. therefore, there is more nandrolone per mg exogenously administered 'free' to bind to androgen receptors, than is testosterone per mg exogenously administered.
Nandrolone aromatises at the rate of 20% of Testosterone.
Lets say, we produce equivalent to 70mg/wk Testosterone enanthate. Taking the molecular mass of the ester into account, you would need an optimal 500-600mg NPP (or deca) per week to produce a decent amount of estrogen (but still within limits) - remember, you need neither high or low amount of estrogen for optimal mental and dick health - we also have to take into consideration the fact of how the androgenic potency of an anabolic would also act to oppose estrogen at the estrogen receptor.
Those who have done DECA only cycles and have complained about deca-dick - here is the only and only reason:
You didnt front load deca. so what occured is that the first 4-5 weeks whilst the ester is peaking in the blood, you arent getting sufficient blood androgen levels (levels not high enough to provide optimal androgen and estrogen signalling).
and/or you arent taking suffice dose. If you arent taking testosterone with your nandrolone, it makes logical sense to use more nandrolone (500-600mg/wk(
Best method is to front load... or just take NPP
https://www.reddit.com/r/PEDsR/comments/812n58/nandrolone_deca_dick_real_cause_and_potential/
As I mentioned earlier in /r/peds, deca dick is not due to prolactin, is not due to estrogen, is not due to progesterone, it isnt because it is 19nor.
Nandrolone activates progesterone at 1/20th of the affinity of progesterone, thereby acts as an antagonist in most cases.
Nandrolone has Dopamine modulation effect, similar but different to Trenbolone.
Nandrolone through reward pathway modulation, can attenuate dopaminergic response.
DHT is not a by product of Nandrolone. DHT can be further metabolised to Neurosteroids which have potent antianxiety and antidepressant effect. DHN does have similar metabolites but lack these pharmacology.
Nandrolone and testosterone, both exogenously, in studies increase prolactin equally at equal doses
Nandrolone produces enough E1 that can be converted to E2 naturally by the body. Optimal doses to match natural levels would be around 300mg/wk.
Combination of testosterone and nandrolone = induction of 3b HSD subtype 1, which is involved in the conversion of E1 to E2, thereby testosterone synergises the estrogenic potency of nandrolone moral of the story, dont run it with testosterone.
Nandrolone produces DHN as a metabolite via 5-alpha reductase, this acts as partial agonist. And competitively displaces DHT from androgenic tissue, like in the penis.
DHT antagonises Estrogen in androgenic tissues and other places such as breast tissue. The lack of androgenic stimulation via DHN causes gyno symptoms to occur even with normal estrogen levels (NO it isn't from progesterone, or prolactin).
DHN can displace DHT and can partially activate the androgen receptors in androgenic tissues such as prostate and hair follicles, this can actually reverse prostate hypertrophy and cause hair regrowth.
The penis requires androgenic stimulation, which unfortunately you cannot get with Nandrolone. Hence why people run high dose Testosterone with Nandrolone to counteract the sex side effects, the concentration of DHT from the testosterone has to be significantly higher than DHN from nandrolone so that DHN does not displace DHT from the receptor.
What is actually causing 'deca dick'
- lack of neurosteroid production from DHT
- lack of penile androgen receptor stimulation AND brain androgen receptor stimulation
Dopaminergic response issues
What is not causing 'deca dick'
- not running testosterone or enough testosterone with Nandrolone
- Progesterone
- Estrogen
- Prolactin
So how do we solve this issue? Im against running testosterone with nandrolone. But there is a cure!
run 0.5mg-1mg Finasteride with your Nandrolone cycle everyday. This will inhibit a good portion of DHN. Results in 50% increase in androgenic activity and optimal stimulation of androgen receptors in androgenic tissue. This cures deca dick problem, it resolves psychological arousal (due to optimal androgen receptor stimulation in the brain)
But we are left with some issues. Once you do this, your skin will instantly get oily as fuck, you'll have acne out of no where and you lose some of the benefits of DHN. Plus, you want to fuck 24/7 and your dick agrees with you also. It seems like the dopaminergic issues resolve after the brain androgen receptors are optimally stimulated without DHN (as nandrolone will act as the parent agonist, without DHN antagonising Nandrolone).
Also, gyno symptoms would also disappear due to breast tissue estrogen receptor is antagonised by Nandrolone (no DHN to stop this).
So if we inhibit the formation of DHN, then nandrolone does not metabolise to a piss ass weak androgen in these local tissues (DHN works to antagonise nandrolones true androgenic potency as well, hence DHN actually reduces prostate size, and restores hair growth). With 5-AR inhibition, DHN does not get produced when nandrolone crosses local 5-AR tissues and thus instead would activate those local receptors much more potently.
Just some calculations.
lets take the following into consideration.
Nandrolone is a weak substrate for SHBG. So, overall, it is a much better anabolic than testosterone, even if you take the 125:37 vs 100:100 profile into consideration. therefore, there is more nandrolone per mg exogenously administered 'free' to bind to androgen receptors, than is testosterone per mg exogenously administered.
Nandrolone aromatises at the rate of 20% of Testosterone.
Lets say, we produce equivalent to 70mg/wk Testosterone enanthate. Taking the molecular mass of the ester into account, you would need an optimal 500-600mg NPP (or deca) per week to produce a decent amount of estrogen (but still within limits) - remember, you need neither high or low amount of estrogen for optimal mental and dick health - we also have to take into consideration the fact of how the androgenic potency of an anabolic would also act to oppose estrogen at the estrogen receptor.
Those who have done DECA only cycles and have complained about deca-dick - here is the only and only reason:
You didnt front load deca. so what occured is that the first 4-5 weeks whilst the ester is peaking in the blood, you arent getting sufficient blood androgen levels (levels not high enough to provide optimal androgen and estrogen signalling).
and/or you arent taking suffice dose. If you arent taking testosterone with your nandrolone, it makes logical sense to use more nandrolone (500-600mg/wk(
Best method is to front load... or just take NPP
