Seeking guidance on timing for a first cycle/ opinions on my plan

[image_of_glass_man]

Hello everyone, newbie here. Thanks for having me in your community, and thanks in advance for your patience and your time. I’ll try to keep my post as short as I can while still hopefully providing all the relevant information that may be needed. It’s going to be a little long winded, because I want to try and paint a picture of where I’m coming from.

32y/o male. 5’11” I was chronically overweight- and at times very much so. I swung between 25-30% body fat for most of my life. I was raised in an overweight family with a host of very bad habits, and in early adulthood I was chronically broke, working 2 jobs or more and had issues with alcohol and food.

Around age 26-27 a lot changed for me. I found a trade that helped me get my head above water financially. I did a lot of internal/mental healing, kicked drinking for the most part, and I also discovered and fell in love with bodybuilding. You can see me “at my best” in my profile picture/thumbnail

I tend to be a bit obsessive about my hobbies. I learned how to eat and became a machine with my meal prepping. I lost 80 lbs and also developed a decent natural physique in the gym. The biggest influences on my lifting and dieting systems have been John Meadows, Dorian Yates, and Jay Cutler. I was lucky enough to train around and talk with Jay a few times as he was friends with the owner of my gym.

I got under 15% bf and around 180-190 lbs I held on to this for about 3 years. I dipped leaner a few times, but mostly was happy with where I settled. I don’t compete and don’t really plan to, as I do have a bit of loose skin.

Last year I had a massive life change. I started a job that put me traveling many days a month, and in some extremely stressful environments with bad food and alcohol all around. Also some lack of access to gyms. Unfortunately I fell off hard and I regained 60lbs. I was kicking myself the whole time but I just didn’t have the tools to get my shit together. Just surviving in my work environment and maintaining my marriage took up all of my mental and emotional energy.

I have since adapted to this new lifestyle, and learned new ways to keep a work life balance. I’m back to not missing any of my work outs. I bring protein powder, oatmeal and tuna packets with me on the road. Also my employer has started catering our events with healthy consistent meal choices, so that makes it easier too. I prep all my food for the days at home, and on the road I weight and portion meals out of catering.

I have lost 20lbs in the last 4 months. I’m trying not to lose it too fast to try and spare lean tissue as I’m coming down. I am feeling super dialed in and back to “being myself” again with no signs of stopping. I think that possibly I’ve added some lean size during all this, as I’ve never seen the size I have now on some of my body parts. My delts, traps, tris, and quads are much bigger and better looking than they were before I regained the weight.

OKAY … finally now on to the AAS portion and questions of my post.

I have decided that I would like to take my bodybuilding endeavors to the next level and begin getting on gear. I had actually already been considering this in the past when I had kind of hit my natty plateau.. but I didn’t consider myself knowledgeable enough yet. I always like to try and know everything I possibly can before making big life choices. For example- when I decided to get a motorcycle I spent two years learning everything I could about bikes and how to ride well and safely before I would let myself buy one.

I’ve spent a lot of time reading and listening to materials about gear and I think mentally I may be approaching the precipice of feeling ready to take the leap.

I would of course do bloods before, during and after. I’m currently planning on using the Marek Health build-your-own labs. I’m already on topical finasteride for male pattern baldness. I wish I had done bloods before I started but I didn’t know any better.

For a first cycle, my current plan is to run a medium/smaller dose of test and see how I respond. For example- 250mg Test E /week (split into 2 shots) for 12 weeks with .25mg Arimidex twice a week. PCT of HCG/clomid. Also thinking maybe I should have nolva on hand as gyno is like my worst nightmare?

Here are my questions-

-Should I wait until I’ve lost more weight to start? Get under 15% again and then turn around and try and put tissue back on with a cycle? I have heard that with increased adiposity you can experience more aromatase type side effects, but I’ve also heard this is “bro science” Part of me is thinking that the lean tissue sparing and recomping effects could really help me as I diet down.

-Should I just run the AI with the cycle as some people suggest, or should I only throw it in IF I start experiencing estrogenic side effects?

-Does my basic premise of PCT look “sound” to you all? The plan would be to wait 2 weeks for exiting of the test and then start the HCG and the Clomid.



I know there’s going to be holes in this that will probably make me look stupid, but I’m here to learn. I seriously thank anyone who has taken the time to read this and throw me some advice.

 

[Jonnyskidmark]

Try 400mg test and no ai

 

[Powerhousehb]

Welcome to ASF!

 

[image_of_glass_man]

Try 400mg test and no ai

Could you elaborate on why? I ask with nothing but curiosity. I haven’t been able to talk through this stuff with other people before. I’m guessing I’d still want to have the AI around in case I responded poorly?

 

[Fletcher]

Hello everyone, newbie here. Thanks for having me in your community, and thanks in advance for your patience and your time. I’ll try to keep my post as short as I can while still hopefully providing all the relevant information that may be needed. It’s going to be a little long winded, because I want to try and paint a picture of where I’m coming from.

32y/o male. 5’11” I was chronically overweight- and at times very much so. I swung between 25-30% body fat for most of my life. I was raised in an overweight family with a host of very bad habits, and in early adulthood I was chronically broke, working 2 jobs or more and had issues with alcohol and food.

Around age 26-27 a lot changed for me. I found a trade that helped me get my head above water financially. I did a lot of internal/mental healing, kicked drinking for the most part, and I also discovered and fell in love with bodybuilding. You can see me “at my best” in my profile picture/thumbnail

I tend to be a bit obsessive about my hobbies. I learned how to eat and became a machine with my meal prepping. I lost 80 lbs and also developed a decent natural physique in the gym. The biggest influences on my lifting and dieting systems have been John Meadows, Dorian Yates, and Jay Cutler. I was lucky enough to train around and talk with Jay a few times as he was friends with the owner of my gym.

I got under 15% bf and around 180-190 lbs I held on to this for about 3 years. I dipped leaner a few times, but mostly was happy with where I settled. I don’t compete and don’t really plan to, as I do have a bit of loose skin.

Last year I had a massive life change. I started a job that put me traveling many days a month, and in some extremely stressful environments with bad food and alcohol all around. Also some lack of access to gyms. Unfortunately I fell off hard and I regained 60lbs. I was kicking myself the whole time but I just didn’t have the tools to get my shit together. Just surviving in my work environment and maintaining my marriage took up all of my mental and emotional energy.

I have since adapted to this new lifestyle, and learned new ways to keep a work life balance. I’m back to not missing any of my work outs. I bring protein powder, oatmeal and tuna packets with me on the road. Also my employer has started catering our events with healthy consistent meal choices, so that makes it easier too. I prep all my food for the days at home, and on the road I weight and portion meals out of catering.

I have lost 20lbs in the last 4 months. I’m trying not to lose it too fast to try and spare lean tissue as I’m coming down. I am feeling super dialed in and back to “being myself” again with no signs of stopping. I think that possibly I’ve added some lean size during all this, as I’ve never seen the size I have now on some of my body parts. My delts, traps, tris, and quads are much bigger and better looking than they were before I regained the weight.

OKAY … finally now on to the AAS portion and questions of my post.

I have decided that I would like to take my bodybuilding endeavors to the next level and begin getting on gear. I had actually already been considering this in the past when I had kind of hit my natty plateau.. but I didn’t consider myself knowledgeable enough yet. I always like to try and know everything I possibly can before making big life choices. For example- when I decided to get a motorcycle I spent two years learning everything I could about bikes and how to ride well and safely before I would let myself buy one.

I’ve spent a lot of time reading and listening to materials about gear and I think mentally I may be approaching the precipice of feeling ready to take the leap.

I would of course do bloods before, during and after. I’m currently planning on using the Marek Health build-your-own labs. I’m already on topical finasteride for male pattern baldness. I wish I had done bloods before I started but I didn’t know any better.

For a first cycle, my current plan is to run a medium/smaller dose of test and see how I respond. For example- 250mg Test E /week (split into 2 shots) for 12 weeks with .25mg Arimidex twice a week. PCT of HCG/clomid. Also thinking maybe I should have nolva on hand as gyno is like my worst nightmare?

Here are my questions-

-Should I wait until I’ve lost more weight to start? Get under 15% again and then turn around and try and put tissue back on with a cycle? I have heard that with increased adiposity you can experience more aromatase type side effects, but I’ve also heard this is “bro science” Part of me is thinking that the lean tissue sparing and recomping effects could really help me as I diet down.

-Should I just run the AI with the cycle as some people suggest, or should I only throw it in IF I start experiencing estrogenic side effects?

-Does my basic premise of PCT look “sound” to you all? The plan would be to wait 2 weeks for exiting of the test and then start the HCG and the Clomid.



I know there’s going to be holes in this that will probably make me look stupid, but I’m here to learn. I seriously thank anyone who has taken the time to read this and throw me some advice.

1. I applaud you for overcoming all the adversity in your life brother!
2. You are taking the right approach by researching and asking for advice before jumping in!
3. I will gladly review your bloodwork amd help guide you. I do ask to see bloodwork for 1st timers before giving amy cycle advice.
4. Aromasin is the best a.i. option.
5. At your age, its probably a better option to do trt after your cycle than coming off.
6. "PCT" is not therapeudic. Its just adding more confusion to an already altered endocrine system. In my opinion, after 30 years of using AAS and coaching others, the traditional PCT protocol is not helpful in the long run. Its an often repeated, but imo uneccessary bombardment of compounds at the worst possible time.
If you use aromasin correctly, you will not have gyno and not need nolvadex.
7. Yes, getting your bf% down to a minimum will help you get better results on cycle.
8. Feel free to pm me. I am always willing to help a guy do things the right way of they are willing to be coached.

 

[Fletcher]

9.... WELCOME TO ASF!

 

[[Pinhead]]

Welcome to the forum, dude! And good luck!

 

[image_of_glass_man]

1. I applaud you for overcoming all the adversity in your life brother!
2. You are taking the right approach by researching and asking for advice before jumping in!
3. I will gladly review your bloodwork amd help guide you. I do ask to see bloodwork for 1st timers before giving amy cycle advice.
4. Aromasin is the best a.i. option.
5. At your age, its probably a better option to do trt after your cycle than coming off.
6. "PCT" is not therapeudic. Its just adding more confusion to an already altered endocrine system. In my opinion, after 30 years of using AAS and coaching others, the traditional PCT protocol is not helpful in the long run. Its an often repeated, but imo uneccessary bombardment of compounds at the worst possible time.
If you use aromasin correctly, you will not have gyno and not need nolvadex.
7. Yes, getting your bf% down to a minimum will help you get better results on cycle.
8. Feel free to pm me. I am always willing to help a guy do things the right way of they are willing to be coached.

Hell yeah, thanks for all the support brother!

Sounds like perhaps the way forward is to keep cutting weight, get bloods pulled this fall and reassess.

I kind of already like the idea of being on TRT, why wait until your 40s to get optimized is kind of my thought. My insurance kicks in this summer so that will make that easier to navigate I suppose. I am curious how many people here self administer TRT vs. how many actually prescription/working with a doctor?

If not doing a PCT, I suppose I could get my bloods pulled like 2 weeks after I come off and it would look crashed at the TRT place/doctors office right?

 

[Astro95]

Welcome aboard bro

This is just my opinion, I tend to do things differently than the rest of the fellas sometimes, but here’s my take.

You’ve built a physique naturally already, so I’d deploy the gear as soon as you’re ready. I personally wouldn’t wait to cut more weight, you already know how to do that, it’ll just speed up your results imo.

You are more estrogenic with higher body fat so there’s the catch with doing what I said previously. You make the call.

Switch from arimidex to Aromasin, I convert quite a bit and I swear arimidex was wrecking my knees. Has bone wrecking sides compared to Aromasin.

As far as using Ai form the jump id go off my pre cycle bloods, if your estrogen is already on the high side, then by logic it’ll spike once on test, so id use that info to determine if I’ll use it a week or 2 into the cycle or not.

I agree with 400mg of test instead of 250mg. 250mg barely over trt or could be trt depending on the person, if I’m shutting myself down and having to pct and go through all that hassle might as well get into some juicy total test levels, but that’s the way I see it, you deploy and run your cycle based on your goals or health concerns before anything.

 

[Fletcher]

Hell yeah, thanks for all the support brother!

Sounds like perhaps the way forward is to keep cutting weight, get bloods pulled this fall and reassess.

I kind of already like the idea of being on TRT, why wait until your 40s to get optimized is kind of my thought. My insurance kicks in this summer so that will make that easier to navigate I suppose. I am curious how many people here self administer TRT vs. how many actually prescription/working with a doctor?

If not doing a PCT, I suppose I could get my bloods pulled like 2 weeks after I come off and it would look crashed at the TRT place/doctors office right?

Simply put, seriously. Fuck trt docs man. The pharma shit is harsh, they will only give you a minimal amount of test, and they will prescribe arimidex, which destroys bone density.
Test levels of US males have dropped over 50% on average in just the last 70 years, so the medical industry's definition of "normal range" is only, or less than HALF of what it should be.
Most guys are test deficient by age 25 now. Its gotten crazy.
10 years ago I would have said, wait till 40. Nowadays, I have guys under 30 who have natty scores of 300 or less. Thats terrible.

 

[image_of_glass_man]

Welcome aboard bro

This is just my opinion, I tend to do things differently than the rest of the fellas sometimes, but here’s my take.

You’ve built a physique naturally already, so I’d deploy the gear as soon as you’re ready. I personally wouldn’t wait to cut more weight, you already know how to do that, it’ll just speed up your results imo.

You are more estrogenic with higher body fat so there’s the catch with doing what I said previously. You make the call.

Switch from arimidex to Aromasin, I convert quite a bit and I swear arimidex was wrecking my knees. Has bone wrecking sides compared to Aromasin.

As far as using Ai form the jump id go off my pre cycle bloods, if your estrogen is already on the high side, then by logic it’ll spike once on test, so id use that info to determine if I’ll use it a week or 2 into the cycle or not.

I agree with 400mg of test instead of 250mg. 250mg barely over trt or could be trt depending on the person, if I’m shutting myself down and having to pct and go through all that hassle might as well get into some juicy total test levels, but that’s the way I see it, you deploy and run your cycle based on your goals or health concerns before anything.

Awesome thank you for taking the time to weigh in! Yeah I understand that people generally advise against trying to use gear to lose weight.. because most people fail at losing weight and just want the east way out. But I’m not too worried about that myself. I just be trying to at least keep what I have while I’m coming dow.

Makes sense what you say about using the pre cycle bloods. Silly me, I guess that’s kind of a no brainer! haha

I’ve heard moving the test dose up and down can increase side effects. Do you see an issue or any benefit with starting lower and working up? like acclimating my body and system to a “cruise” level first and then going up? 4 weeks at 250 then like 12 at 400 then come back down to some kind of cruise or trt situation?

 

[image_of_glass_man]

Simply put, seriously. Fuck trt docs man. The pharma shit is harsh, they will only give you a minimal amount of test, and they will prescribe arimidex, which destroys bone density.
Test levels of US males have dropped over 50% on average in just the last 70 years, so the medical industry's definition of "normal range" is only, or less than HALF of what it should be.
Most guys are test deficient by age 25 now. Its gotten crazy.
10 years ago I would have said, wait till 40. Nowadays, I have guys under 30 who have natty scores of 300 or less. Thats terrible.

Word! Yeah I’m very curious what I’ll get natty when I pull my bloods. I feel like I can feel it’s up when I’m super on point with all my meals/sleep/workouts but I won’t be surprised if it’s low anyways.

Sounds like we all gotta figure out how to fend for ourselves. I can get used to that idea, I’ve pulled one of my own teeth before haha.

 

[Broserker]

lots of good advice here… I always say, cut down to a decent bf% first things first, you don’t have to be shredded. But this puts you in a good spot to avoid additional sides, and also gets you in tune with managing your diet and calories, you already have a good starting point macro wise.

Second, get blood work done so you know you are healthy, and more importantly have a baseline for your natural levels.

Lastly, I personally started at 250 mg to assess my sides, and slowly titrated my first cycle up to 400 mg. I never needed an ai, but you might need one at 150mg. Hence the need for blood work so you know where you lie there

All in all, you should be seeking optimal longevity when you begin the AAS journey. Start the dosages low and see what gains you can make, add the compounds slowly over time if you wish. It’s all about just being consistent and smart if you want to maximize gains and minimize the sides/damage

 

[Astro95]

Awesome thank you for taking the time to weigh in! Yeah I understand that people generally advise against trying to use gear to lose weight.. because most people fail at losing weight and just want the east way out. But I’m not too worried about that myself. I just be trying to at least keep what I have while I’m coming dow.

Makes sense what you say about using the pre cycle bloods. Silly me, I guess that’s kind of a no brainer! haha

I’ve heard moving the test dose up and down can increase side effects. Do you see an issue or any benefit with starting lower and working up? like acclimating my body and system to a “cruise” level first and then going up? 4 weeks at 250 then like 12 at 400 then come back down to some kind of cruise or trt situation?

If you’re using fast acting esters like Testosterone propionate or acetate, sure those act quickly and you’ll be saturated at each dose throughout, but involves everyday or every other day injections and I’m not sure you’re ready for all that just yet, but you could be.

Most common testosterone eaters used are cyp or Enanthate or sust, which are longer acting. Whatever dosage you’re running will be fully saturated in your body at 4-6 weeks so I wouldn’t use those to raise your dosage the way you’re wanting to, or id use them, but either bump up once at 6 weeks and run whatever the final dose is the remainder of the cycle. I could be wrong here, but I think about it that way.

Your first cycle you also wanna learn how your estrogen is on x amount of test so, too much jumping isn’t really gonna allow you to get a clear picture of that.

Trt is great highly recommend, just know you’ll be injecting the rest of your life.

 

[Startingover]

Hell of a journey!
Love the story..
Seems like you a planner,thinker before diving in..
Which is great and smart!
Most jump right to tren!!
Lol

Welcome to ASF!!
what ever ya choose 1st gig..
Your gonna crush it I feel..
Reason where you got naturally.
How you have nutrition dialed in..
No where to go but up!!

 

[Wiseguy]

How I plan a cycle

Hi Brothers, Lately I’ve been reading a lot about first cycles or next cycles with little or no information about the poster. Typically if it’s a new member they are asking for recommendations. Well it’s tough to recommend a cycle not knowing a thing about the poster. Experience, health issues...

www.anabolicsteroidforums.com

Hope this helps

 

[Startingover]

Feel like this
Should be a sticky for new comers Wiseguy..
Simple
To the point..
No hocus pocus..

 

[image_of_glass_man]

If you’re using fast acting esters like Testosterone propionate or acetate, sure those act quickly and you’ll be saturated at each dose throughout, but involves everyday or every other day injections and I’m not sure you’re ready for all that just yet, but you could be.

Most common testosterone eaters used are cyp or Enanthate or sust, which are longer acting. Whatever dosage you’re running will be fully saturated in your body at 4-6 weeks so I wouldn’t use those to raise your dosage the way you’re wanting to, or id use them, but either bump up once at 6 weeks and run whatever the final dose is the remainder of the cycle. I could be wrong here, but I think about it that way.

Your first cycle you also wanna learn how your estrogen is on x amount of test so, too much jumping isn’t really gonna allow you to get a clear picture of that.

Trt is great highly recommend, just know you’ll be injecting the rest of your life.

Simply put, seriously. Fuck trt docs man. The pharma shit is harsh, they will only give you a minimal amount of test, and they will prescribe arimidex, which destroys bone density.
Test levels of US males have dropped over 50% on average in just the last 70 years, so the medical industry's definition of "normal range" is only, or less than HALF of what it should be.
Most guys are test deficient by age 25 now. Its gotten crazy.
10 years ago I would have said, wait till 40. Nowadays, I have guys under 30 who have natty scores of 300 or less. Thats terrible.

I’ve been thinking more since getting everyone’s replies, and trying to think through and envision everything that comes with a lifetime of TRT.

I am ok with the idea of doing my own bloods and managing my own TRT long term. Maybe eventually I could find one of those unicorn doctors that understand the bodybuilding lifestyle.

Here’s a concern that I have however. My career is really important to me- I travel a lot for work. Most times, I ride and live in a tour bus.. So I could hypothetically just bag and bring my black market test etc in a shot kit, no problem there. SOMETIMES.. we have to fly internationally, or cross the land borders between US and Canada. I think next year we’ll be in Europe for over a month.

Perhaps in these instances I could use a longer ester like test undecanoate and don’t risk brining the illegal AAS on my person like that. Or alternatively if I did get an actual TRT prescription, then I would be able to just bring it with me no problem.

Just something else I need to think through or have a plan before I step off the ledge, if you guys have any thoughts.

 

[Powerhousehb]

I’ve been thinking more since getting everyone’s replies, and trying to think through and envision everything that comes with a lifetime of TRT.

I am ok with the idea of doing my own bloods and managing my own TRT long term. Maybe eventually I could find one of those unicorn doctors that understand the bodybuilding lifestyle.

Here’s a concern that I have however. My career is really important to me- I travel a lot for work. Most times, I ride and live in a tour bus.. So I could hypothetically just bag and bring my black market test etc in a shot kit, no problem there. SOMETIMES.. we have to fly internationally, or cross the land borders between US and Canada. I think next year we’ll be in Europe for over a month.

Perhaps in these instances I could use a longer ester like test undecanoate and don’t risk brining the illegal AAS on my person like that. Or alternatively if I did get an actual TRT prescription, then I would be able to just bring it with me no problem.

Just something else I need to think through or have a plan before I step off the ledge, if you guys have any thoughts.

If your traveling internationally or even flying domestic don't take a chance with TRT. Do it legal and have a script. It's not worth the risk. Yes many people get away with it. I for one don't need the extra stress. Then blast in-between blood tests or find a doctor that understanding. My doctor is a sports medicine doctor. He dosent condone what I do but he will care for me because that's his job. Just my 2 cents!