Lab results - Any feedback appreciated!

[tatertot]

Hey everyone! Looking for some feedback on recent labs.
My TRT/HRT dose is 200mg/wk and I feel good. Gym 4-5 times a week, have fairly clean diet, hydrate, etc. Never run a 'cycle'. Only on Test now.
Some of my values were out of range. If any more knowledgeable folks could chime in, I'd appreciate it!

• High test/free/Estrogen - doesnt seem that concerning to me since I feel good?
• High HEMATOCRIT - My levels were at 46% in 1/2021 when I got my first labs on TRT at a lower dose. I live at 3000 elevation, drink ~128oz water, rarely eat red meat, gym 4-5 days a week, 10 mins cardio... Should I start taking fish oil or donating blood? More cardio? Something else?
• T3 UPTAKE - this one also concerns me. Do I need to look into thyroid meds? Or actively try to lower this?

 

[Rot-Iron66]

My CRIT went up to 51 as well on TRT, my Dr said "not an issue". I went on IP6 and it went back down to 48.
Not sure if the supp did it, or just went there naturally again.
Great lipid levels and Glucose!!

 

[tatertot]

My CRIT went up to 51 as well on TRT, my Dr said "not an issue". I went on IP6 and it went back down to 48.
Not sure if the supp did it, or just went there naturally again.
Great lipid levels and Glucose!!

Awesome, that is good to know about the crit. What does IP6 were you taking? I'll have to do more research there.

I was hoping for good lipids cause I've been eyeing Var

 

[Matt88]

Do you take an AI such as Armidex (anastrozole) or Aromasin (exemestane) ?

You need one. Chronically high estrogen can lead to issues. There is research suggesting it can potentially lead to prostate cancer but the research I seen was inconclusive although it looked convincing.

I'd suggest just donating blood to address the elevated HCT. It's easy and free. Can plan on just doing it periodically.

As for the t3 uptake. I would not jump on thyroid medication unless your doctor prescribed it. If you was to take straight t3 for example it is a very catabolic thing. Did your doctor have any thoughts on it?

 

[tatertot]

Do you take an AI such as Armidex (anastrozole) or Aromasin (exemestane) ?

You need one. Chronically high estrogen can lead to issues. There is research suggesting it can potentially lead to prostate cancer but the research I seen was inconclusive although it looked convincing.

I'd suggest just donating blood to address the elevated HCT. It's easy and free. Can plan on just doing it periodically.

As for the t3 uptake. I would not jump on thyroid medication unless your doctor prescribed it. If you was to take straight t3 for example it is a very catabolic thing. Did your doctor have any thoughts on it?

Thanks for the tips. I should start donating. My wife is always telling me to but the needles scare me (ironically!).

I do not (yet) have an AI, and have read a lot folks and doctors advising against taking one. The problem is that I like cruising at this dose of Test and dont want to "cruise" with an AI. What are your thoughts?
Maybe I'll chat with my doc and get an RX next time I see him.

 

[Matt88]

Thanks for the tips. I should start donating. My wife is always telling me to but the needles scare me (ironically!).

I do not (yet) have an AI, and have read a lot folks and doctors advising against taking one. The problem is that I like cruising at this dose of Test and dont want to "cruise" with an AI. What are your thoughts?
Maybe I'll chat with my doc and get an RX next time I see him.

My thoughts are that you are making a bigger risk to your health by not running one opposed to running one.

Armosin (exemestane) is easier on you. It won't have any potential negative impact on your lipids like Armidex (anastrozole)

I'll take the slight risk of running an AI before I'll not run one and risk my prostate, prostate cancer, emotions, water retention, potential sex issues etc. Centered estrogen is amazing.

Is your TRT prescribed by a doctor I take it? Is it a general practice doc or a hormone doc? Because I find it super odd that he hasn't tried to put you an AI if you're in the US unless it's a general practice doc who doesn't know better.

Also, Who are these folks and doctors who say not to take an AI on trt?

It's user dependent if you even need one but your labs say you do

 

[frank zazz]

My thoughts are that you are making a bigger risk to your health by not running one opposed to running one.

Armosin (exemestane) is easier on you. It won't have any potential negative impact on your lipids like Armidex (anastrozole)

I'll take the slight risk of running an AI before I'll not run one and risk my prostate, prostate cancer, emotions, water retention, potential sex issues etc. Centered estrogen is amazing.

Is your TRT prescribed by a doctor I take it? Is it a general practice doc or a hormone doc? Because I find it super odd that he hasn't tried to put you an AI if you're in the US unless it's a general practice doc who doesn't know better.

Also, Who are these folks and doctors who say not to take an AI on trt?

It's user dependent if you even need one but your labs say you do

His labs do show elevated e2 but if no bad estrogen sides than I wouldn’t take one . He could also just dial his test dose down a little bit to see how it changes

 

[Matt88]

His labs do show elevated e2 but if no bad estrogen sides than I wouldn’t take one . He could also just dial his test dose down a little bit to see how it changes

So you're willing to risk long term effects of high estrogen just because you feel good?

This guy is doing a TRT protocol. He hasn't crossed over into doing blasts/cycles so his risks should be minimized as much as possible.

 

[tatertot]

My thoughts are that you are making a bigger risk to your health by not running one opposed to running one.

Armosin (exemestane) is easier on you. It won't have any potential negative impact on your lipids like Armidex (anastrozole)

I'll take the slight risk of running an AI before I'll not run one and risk my prostate, prostate cancer, emotions, water retention, potential sex issues etc. Centered estrogen is amazing.

Is your TRT prescribed by a doctor I take it? Is it a general practice doc or a hormone doc? Because I find it super odd that he hasn't tried to put you an AI if you're in the US unless it's a general practice doc who doesn't know better.

Also, Who are these folks and doctors who say not to take an AI on trt?

It's user dependent if you even need one but your labs say you do

Here's a couple quick resources that suggest (usually) to not take an AI.

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@frank zazz is right, I could lower my dose. Maybe that would be the healthiest for long term. But right now just feels like a good level to be at

 

[Matt88]

Sorry but a couple YouTube videos done by low key people isn't going to persuade me when people a lot smarter than those people in the video say to use an AI if you have high estrogen on testosterone.

Let me put it this way to give some context. If you're not going to address something out of range and only go by "feels" then why are you getting lab work?

Let's say your lipids was fucked (they was great on your recent labs) but with them being fucked you said: "But I feel great". Are you going to address that?

 

[tatertot]

Sorry but a couple YouTube videos done by low key people isn't going to persuade me when people a lot smarter than those people in the video say to use an AI if you have high estrogen on testosterone.

Let me put it this way to give some context. If you're not going to address something out of range and only go by "feels" then why are you getting lab work?

Let's say your lipids was fucked (they was great on your recent labs) but with them being fucked you said: "But I feel great". Are you going to address that?

Jordan Grant is a licensed urologist with experience in hormone optimization and the other fella runs a TRT clinic, so I believe they are more than "low key people." Here's 10+ papers written on the subject that were referenced: Estradiol Video Files - Google Drive

I agree with you that if my lipids were messed up, they'd need to be addressed. And I certainly would address them by changing diet, workout routine, etc.
However, in the case of high Estrogen (with no side effects), the evidence shows that it's not bad to have high levels... especially if your other tests are clean, you feel good and are healthy. You also have to consider the cons of an AI. I dont know what the long term effects of running Aromasin is.

Everyone is different, and if I had symptoms of low or high E2, I'd certainly address it. But if the downsides of running at this dose is only increased chance of prostate cancer, I can live with that.... and will handle it by continuing yearly checkups and adjust as needed

I appreciate all your input and have a lot to learn myself

 

[Pathadden]

I have to agree that if out of range it might be a good idea to consult your doctor to get on an ai to get back in range since it's trt and you will be running for possibly the rest of your life. Sooner or later the risk of high estrogen may come in to play. It would be different if you where on a blast and you where on the high side and felt good and making gains because you would cycle off or drop your dose down and your e2 would come back in range.

 

[Swole_Wes]

Sorry but a couple YouTube videos done by low key people isn't going to persuade me when people a lot smarter than those people in the video say to use an AI if you have high estrogen on testosterone.

Let me put it this way to give some context. If you're not going to address something out of range and only go by "feels" then why are you getting lab work?

Let's say your lipids was fucked (they was great on your recent labs) but with them being fucked you said: "But I feel great". Are you going to address that?

I'm curious, how exactly would one determine what estro level is right, if not by feel? Are your suggesting some arbitrary number that falls within 'range' provided by a lab?

 

[Pathadden]

I'm curious, how exactly would one determine what estro level is right, if not by feel? Are your suggesting some arbitrary number that falls within 'range' provided by a lab?

I also can agree with this point to.

 

[Matt88]

I'm curious, how exactly would one determine what estro level is right, if not by feel? Are your suggesting some arbitrary number that falls within 'range' provided by a lab?

Yes. That is exactly what I'm suggesting. If you go down the rabbit hole of what you are suggesting then that means absolutely NO reference range is to be trusted. Renal function, liver function, lipids, thyroid. All of it. I work in Healthcare so yes I trust reference ranges for what they are. For reference and are a good rule of thumb. Groups of people with much more education than my self looked at data and came up with those reference ranges.

 

[Swole_Wes]

Jordan Grant is a licensed urologist with experience in hormone optimization and the other fella runs a TRT clinic, so I believe they are more than "low key people." Here's 10+ papers written on the subject that were referenced: Estradiol Video Files - Google Drive

I agree with you that if my lipids were messed up, they'd need to be addressed. And I certainly would address them by changing diet, workout routine, etc.
However, in the case of high Estrogen (with no side effects), the evidence shows that it's not bad to have high levels... especially if your other tests are clean, you feel good and are healthy. You also have to consider the cons of an AI. I dont know what the long term effects of running Aromasin is.

Everyone is different, and if I had symptoms of low or high E2, I'd certainly address it. But if the downsides of running at this dose is only increased chance of prostate cancer, I can live with that.... and will handle it by continuing yearly checkups and adjust as needed

I appreciate all your input and have a lot to learn myself

You are actually spot on with your assessment. Estrogen is an individual thing, so there is no one size fits all number for those of us with supraphysiological levels of test. We need estrogen to grow. Personally while on trt, I prefer my estrogen in the mid 50's to low 60's. I grow like a weed and suffer from no I'll effects of 'high estrogen.'
Don't take my word for it, do yourself a favor and experiment with your body to find out what works and what doesn't

 

[Matt88]

At the very least, for the love of god please have an AI or Nolvadex on hand in case you get gyno.