How I plan a cycle

[Wiseguy]

How do you know if there's a problem if you don't have a bloodwork to prove it? Do you wait until you have a heart attack before going to check?

how do you do with AI if you don't know what your estrogen value is?

all great points, but spending $50 worth of bloodwork in between does more good than harm.
...at least that's how I see it.

anyway, this post should be put at the top and kept out for the many new ones coming in and asking for help with their cycle.

So when I do my blood work prior to cycle I make sure all markers are perfect. During cycle if I don’t have high blood pressure, or show any signs of not being well I don’t see a point and that’s just me. If I don’t have any symptoms I don’t need it.

If my estrogen level is extremely high and I mean extreme I will have all the symptoms related and I would do the test. You need estrogen to grow so little elevated is not a problem. Many will crash them by taking too much AI.

I don’t disagree with you my friend. Like I always say I just post based on my experience. What I put here might work or not for some and certainly not all the steps. What ever works for you personally you should continue. This is the purpose of this great site, so we can discuss what works for us individually and let everyone decides which path they want to take.

 

[Nobodyishere]

If anything this much test will give you more strength and ability to recover quicker from workouts. Rest will depend on your eating and workout.

Again new to AAS - so what ur saying is I can go into a caloric deficit but still make athletic n strength progress cus of the test?

 

[Wiseguy]

Again new to AAS - so what ur saying is I can go into a caloric deficit but still make athletic n strength progress cus of the test?

No matter what you do that extra text will give your more strength and energy.

 

[PlatePusher]

No matter what you do that extra text will give your more strength and energy.

I understand everyone is different. Needing estrogen to grow a little elevated how much is that ?? Reason I ask I got some results back over the phone today out of town working they will mail me the paper copies.
200 mg test cyp split into 2 pins m-th
Test was 1076
Estradiol 61.5
No side affects feeling great
Dr was ok with mentioned to take AI but after research and reading I am not taking it like I said no issues. Sorry to get off subject thanks

 

[Wiseguy]

The amount of estrogen a male should have will depend on their age and health history. According to the Endocrine Society, an adult male should have an estradiol level of 10⁠–⁠40 picograms per milliliter (pg/mL) and an estrone level of 10⁠–50 pg/ml.

Now with that said everyone is different. Some are more sensitive than others. Your estrogen is slightly elevated, but is it through the roof? No.

Your call some do take AI and some don’t. I don’t.

 

[Wiseguy]

How do you know if there's a problem if you don't have a bloodwork to prove it? Do you wait until you have a heart attack before going to check?

how do you do with AI if you don't know what your estrogen value is?

all great points, but spending $50 worth of bloodwork in between does more good than harm.
...at least that's how I see it.

anyway, this post should be put at the top and kept out for the many new ones coming in and asking for help with their cycle.

I agree and if you want too off course go ahead and do it, but I have done blood work during cycle and every category is messed up. So at this point what do you do stop? We know the numbers are going to be off the chart during, but what is important to me is to make sure they are quickly back to normal after.
I would only do blood work during if something out of the ordinary popped up. Unusual dizziness, feeling of fainting, much higher heart rate than normal, extreme fatigue, jaundance, very high BP. Otherwise I just hold off until the cycle is done.

With that said, everyone should do what they are comfortable with. I am just stating my routine and experiences

 

[Nobodyishere]

I understand everyone is different. Needing estrogen to grow a little elevated how much is that ?? Reason I ask I got some results back over the phone today out of town working they will mail me the paper copies.
200 mg test cyp split into 2 pins m-th
Test was 1076
Estradiol 61.5
No side affects feeling great
Dr was ok with mentioned to take AI but after research and reading I am not taking it like I said no issues. Sorry to get off subject thanks

for what is worth I was
1087 test
64 estradiol
120mg test c/ week (60mg e3.5d)

I’m not gunna use an AI.

 

[Wiseguy]

for what is worth I was
1087 test
64 estradiol
120mg test c/ week (60mg e3.5d)

I’m not gunna use an AI.

I would agree with you here. I don’t think the number is excessive high, specially if your body is adjusting well and you are not having excessive sides.

 

[Battousai]

I agree that low e2 is a lot shittier than having a little elevated e2.

 

[Wiseguy]

I agree that low e2 is a lot shittier than having a little elevated e2.

Agreed 100%

 

[Atari]

Thanks for posting this.

 

[bighuck]

Hi Brothers,

Lately I’ve been reading a lot about first cycles or next cycles with little or no information about the poster. Typically if it’s a new member they are asking for recommendations. Well it’s tough to recommend a cycle not knowing a thing about the poster. Experience, health issues, blood work, should be the minimum. Also, guys with previous experience ask about complicated cycles without sharing info about their stats and goals. I am not sure either why everyone is trying every compound? I see for example wet and dry compounds mixed, 2 different orals beginning of the cycle, you get the picture.

So this is how I plan out my cycle.

1. What is the goal? Loose or gain weight and realistic. I don’t plan loosing or gaining 25 pounds in 12 week. Not possible. Realistic attainable goals.

2. Length of cycle. If I am competing timing I’ve very important. Start and end time.

3. I have all my gear and support on hand before starting date.

4. Blood work prior to start to make sure I am healthy and all vitals are normal. I do another blood work 60 days after cycle ends to make sure I recovered. Also, why people do blood work during I have no idea. All markers are going to be wrecked . Only way I would do bloodwork in a middle of cycle if I had health issues.

5. Workout plan. Are you a bodybuilder, power lifter, team sport athlete. They all have different routines and goals.

6. Good eating habits and diet plan to support your goal. Gear is a total waste if you are not consuming excess calorie during bulk or reduced during cut.

7. Cardio a must to keep your heart and overall health in check.

8. Choosing gear based on my goal. I just don’t randomly take gear. They have to compliment each other and work for the same purpose that I am trying to accomplish.

Now once I got everything in order that’s when I start. Take your time and plan out your cycle and you will be happy with the result.

Solid!

 

[zionoir626]

Great post...as always..
Over the yrs till now..
The problems that I constantly see are..
Lack of Bloodwork and the understanding of it..
And
Estrogen Control..

I believe it's greatly important to do Bloodwork mid cycle..
Reasons I believe this...
1..to see exactly how what you're running effects you..
2.. Estrogen of course..
3..to see if a compound,like Proviron,Mast, EQ or other compound is helping reduce Estrogen..
This is extremely useful down the road... Because I see a lot of guys running compounds that do reduce Estrogen along with an AI..
Crashing their Estrogen..

There's a Reason to run Test Only..
Cycles 1&2...
One at 500...Two at 700-750...
Most may not need an AI at 500..
But most at 750..Will..!!

If you only pull bloods at 500...then down the road add other compounds AND bump the Test up above 500... what's causing the increase of Estrogen..???
It might just be the increased Test..!!

Myself.. I want to know what's doing What..
To my markers,BP,pulse and Estrogen..this way I'm knowledgeable about How each compound effects me..
For Example...
Var...
Bloods prior to a cycle..good
Bloods after the cycle..good
But
During...Not Good,out of range, perhaps even dangerous out of Range..Health Problem Causing..

This is My Take...
Wise has been around for a very long time,and still competes..
He sarted as I did..When there weren't any AI's .. forums or Internet..
He knows his body..
And.. I personally respect him Greatly..
But,we have different opinions..at Times..
Which is good..
Love you Brother..
Great post
Z...

 

[Wiseguy]

Great post...as always..
Over the yrs till now..
The problems that I constantly see are..
Lack of Bloodwork and the understanding of it..
And
Estrogen Control..

I believe it's greatly important to do Bloodwork mid cycle..
Reasons I believe this...
1..to see exactly how what you're running effects you..
2.. Estrogen of course..
3..to see if a compound,like Proviron,Mast, EQ or other compound is helping reduce Estrogen..
This is extremely useful down the road... Because I see a lot of guys running compounds that do reduce Estrogen along with an AI..
Crashing their Estrogen..

There's a Reason to run Test Only..
Cycles 1&2...
One at 500...Two at 700-750...
Most may not need an AI at 500..
But most at 750..Will..!!

If you only pull bloods at 500...then down the road add other compounds AND bump the Test up above 500... what's causing the increase of Estrogen..???
It might just be the increased Test..!!

Myself.. I want to know what's doing What..
To my markers,BP,pulse and Estrogen..this way I'm knowledgeable about How each compound effects me..
For Example...
Var...
Bloods prior to a cycle..good
Bloods after the cycle..good
But
During...Not Good,out of range, perhaps even dangerous out of Range..Health Problem Causing..

This is My Take...
Wise has been around for a very long time,and still competes..
He sarted as I did..When there weren't any AI's .. forums or Internet..
He knows his body..
And.. I personally respect him Greatly..
But,we have different opinions..at Times..
Which is good..
Love you Brother..
Great post
Z...

Absolutely my friend I agree with you. We are all not the same and I always say that. Everyone needs to do what works for them. I just share what works for me that's it. Thanks for a great response.

 

[302]

Hi Brothers,

Lately I’ve been reading a lot about first cycles or next cycles with little or no information about the poster. Typically if it’s a new member they are asking for recommendations. Well it’s tough to recommend a cycle not knowing a thing about the poster. Experience, health issues, blood work, should be the minimum. Also, guys with previous experience ask about complicated cycles without sharing info about their stats and goals. I am not sure either why everyone is trying every compound? I see for example wet and dry compounds mixed, 2 different orals beginning of the cycle, you get the picture.

So this is how I plan out my cycle.

1. What is the goal? Loose or gain weight and realistic. I don’t plan loosing or gaining 25 pounds in 12 week. Not possible. Realistic attainable goals.

2. Length of cycle. If I am competing timing I’ve very important. Start and end time.

3. I have all my gear and support on hand before starting date.

4. Blood work prior to start to make sure I am healthy and all vitals are normal. I do another blood work 60 days after cycle ends to make sure I recovered. Also, why people do blood work during I have no idea. All markers are going to be wrecked . Only way I would do bloodwork in a middle of cycle if I had health issues.

5. Workout plan. Are you a bodybuilder, power lifter, team sport athlete. They all have different routines and goals.

6. Good eating habits and diet plan to support your goal. Gear is a total waste if you are not consuming excess calorie during bulk or reduced during cut.

7. Cardio a must to keep your heart and overall health in check.

8. Choosing gear based on my goal. I just don’t randomly take gear. They have to compliment each other and work for the same purpose that I am trying to accomplish.

Now once I got everything in order that’s when I start. Take your time and plan out your cycle and you will be happy with the

If there was a asf hall of fame wiseguy would be in it. I started at this a little later than most. 44yrs old. I have to take my health and age in consideration when picking a cycle and dosages.. I feel a couple ways.. I feel like I’m late to the party and don’t have as much time as others. So I should blast asinine dosages of toxic gear. That way I’ll get massive faster. Right? No
Fast forward .. after finding asf and coming across wises post , logs etc. and studying and learning I’ve realized less is more. I don’t need huge dosages to mk gains. What I need is realistic goals, great sleep, energy a good diet and less stress on my body. I need to feel good. I need my dick to work.
I just figured I’d give credit where it’s due.
Thank you wiseguy! Your contribution to asf is unmatched.

 

[zionoir626]

Wise is one of the best, most knowledgeable guys here..
But what's the best..his attitude..
Never gets flustered when someone comes at him..
Z...

 

[Wiseguy]

@302jrob and @zionoir626

Thank you my friends for kind words. I just share my experience, good or bad that's it. I don't copy paste or go by some of the crazy recommendations I read. You need to figure out what works for you and do that. I don't get upset with anyone because we are just sharing info. I am not shoving my workout or cycles down any ones throat or consider my self an expert, heck no. Still leaning and making adjustments. Some times its just crazy when I read someone with years of lifting 265 pounds recommends a newbie 5,10 165 pound person 500mg of test per week? How do you recommend the same dosage for a 265 guy and a 165 pounder?

Anyway, it just takes sorting out and figuring out what works for you. Some of the gear now didn't even exist when I was starting. AI's? What the hell is that LOL. So much more now and just doesn't mean you have to take it all.

Thanks again so kind.

 

[bighuck]

Great post...as always..
Over the yrs till now..
The problems that I constantly see are..
Lack of Bloodwork and the understanding of it..
And
Estrogen Control..

I believe it's greatly important to do Bloodwork mid cycle..
Reasons I believe this...
1..to see exactly how what you're running effects you..
2.. Estrogen of course..
3..to see if a compound,like Proviron,Mast, EQ or other compound is helping reduce Estrogen..
This is extremely useful down the road... Because I see a lot of guys running compounds that do reduce Estrogen along with an AI..
Crashing their Estrogen..

There's a Reason to run Test Only..
Cycles 1&2...
One at 500...Two at 700-750...
Most may not need an AI at 500..
But most at 750..Will..!!

If you only pull bloods at 500...then down the road add other compounds AND bump the Test up above 500... what's causing the increase of Estrogen..???
It might just be the increased Test..!!

Myself.. I want to know what's doing What..
To my markers,BP,pulse and Estrogen..this way I'm knowledgeable about How each compound effects me..
For Example...
Var...
Bloods prior to a cycle..good
Bloods after the cycle..good
But
During...Not Good,out of range, perhaps even dangerous out of Range..Health Problem Causing..

This is My Take...
Wise has been around for a very long time,and still competes..
He sarted as I did..When there weren't any AI's .. forums or Internet..
He knows his body..
And.. I personally respect him Greatly..
But,we have different opinions..at Times..
Which is good..
Love you Brother..
Great post
Z...

Great post by both of you guys. We all should read and listen more to the things you guys, (OG’s) are saying. Much respect for the posts and wisdom! Thank you.

 

[zionoir626]

One of the greatest things about this forum..
Some Vets as well as experienced new guys..
New guys don't have to make the same mistakes as we have..
Rather learn from our mistakes..
And learn volumes in a short time.. instead of yrs of Trial by Fire..

Two things however...
Each must do their own research and become self reliant..
And.. absolutely no.. Spoon-feeding..

We often see guys posting,and as we read along,we can hear the lack of research..

Learn from our mistakes.. I've made more than Most..
And..
I'm still learning..
Great Post..Wise..
Z...

 

[Wiseguy]

One of the greatest things about this forum..
Some Vets as well as experienced new guys..
New guys don't have to make the same mistakes as we have..
Rather learn from our mistakes..
And learn volumes in a short time.. instead of yrs of Trial by Fire..

Two things however...
Each must do their own research and become self reliant..
And.. absolutely no.. Spoon-feeding..

We often see guys posting,and as we read along,we can hear the lack of research..

Learn from our mistakes.. I've made more than Most..
And..
I'm still learning..
Great Post..Wise..
Z...

Agree my friend.

 

[Wiseguy]

One of the biggest problems I read here is guys doing cycle after cycle without any break or very little break. Also, it seems like everyone is trying to do every compound? If you ran test and primo for 12 weeks and gained solid 8 pounds why don't you give your body and organs a break and come back doing the same thing. Another thing here is that many think more is better. Maybe short term but what about the long term implications? Any way, I don't do bulk cycles. On trt year around and couple of cut cycles when I am getting read for a show. Two blasts a year is more that perfect for me to maintain what I have.

Again, this is totally based on my experience and preference. I am not telling anyone what to do. You want to run 1000mg of test year around go at it, just sharing my experience.

 

[zionoir626]

One of the biggest problems I read here is guys doing cycle after cycle without any break or very little break. Also, it seems like everyone is trying to do every compound? If you ran test and primo for 12 weeks and gained solid 8 pounds why don't you give your body and organs a break and come back doing the same thing. Another thing here is that many think more is better. Maybe short term but what about the long term implications? Any way, I don't do bulk cycles. On trt year around and couple of cut cycles when I am getting read for a show. Two blasts a year is more that perfect for me to maintain what I have.

Again, this is totally based on my experience and preference. I am not telling anyone what to do. You want to run 1000mg of test year around go at it, just sharing my experience.

Well Said, my Friend..!!
It's not a Race..never has been..
The Journey is the best part..
Learning what works and maximizing those things..
Gear is such a small part of the Equation..

One or two Cycles a year..ample Recovery between..to get markers to normal and let the body adjust..
Health should not be cast to the Wind..
Because, poor choices have a way of catching up with You..

Also....
Using harsh compounds recklessly is damn foolish..
You only have one body...why shave yrs off the back end..

Great Thread Wise...
Looking forward to More From You..!!
Z...

 

[Wiseguy]

@zionoir626 thank you my friend.

 

[RiverRat]

Hi Brothers,

Lately I’ve been reading a lot about first cycles or next cycles with little or no information about the poster. Typically if it’s a new member they are asking for recommendations. Well it’s tough to recommend a cycle not knowing a thing about the poster. Experience, health issues, blood work, should be the minimum. Also, guys with previous experience ask about complicated cycles without sharing info about their stats and goals. I am not sure either why everyone is trying every compound? I see for example wet and dry compounds mixed, 2 different orals beginning of the cycle, you get the picture.

So this is how I plan out my cycle.

1. What is the goal? Loose or gain weight and realistic. I don’t plan loosing or gaining 25 pounds in 12 week. Not possible. Realistic attainable goals.

2. Length of cycle. If I am competing timing I’ve very important. Start and end time.

3. I have all my gear and support on hand before starting date.

4. Blood work prior to start to make sure I am healthy and all vitals are normal. I do another blood work 60 days after cycle ends to make sure I recovered. Also, why people do blood work during I have no idea. All markers are going to be wrecked . Only way I would do bloodwork in a middle of cycle if I had health issues.

5. Workout plan. Are you a bodybuilder, power lifter, team sport athlete. They all have different routines and goals.

6. Good eating habits and diet plan to support your goal. Gear is a total waste if you are not consuming excess calorie during bulk or reduced during cut.

7. Cardio a must to keep your heart and overall health in check.

8. Choosing gear based on my goal. I just don’t randomly take gear. They have to compliment each other and work for the same purpose that I am trying to accomplish.

Now once I got everything in order that’s when I start. Take your time and plan out your cycle and you will be happy with the result.

Well put

 

[Wiseguy]

All I am trying to say is we can help or share from our experience if we know more from the poster rather than "Hi what should my next cycle be"?

 

[zionoir626]

All I am trying to say is we can help or share from our experience if we know more from the poster rather than "Hi what should my next cycle be"?

Really..That Makes Sense..
So...NO..!!
LOL
Z...

 

[Doug 64]

Great thread!

Number 7 really hit home for me. I made the mistake before of not doing nearly enough cardio. Now, I never ever miss a cardio session. What a drastic difference it makes. Not only am I in better shape regarding my cardiovascular health but it makes such a drastic difference in my metabolism and the way my body processes food. Before my body would always try to slow down at times. More so when calories lowered for fat loss but even during long periods of high calorie intake. Now with cardio being there it is such a drastic difference in how well my body processes food. I think it is easy to overlook when we are trying to build muscle and gain weight. I think a lot of us have the tendency to think we don`t need it during this time frame. I assure you this could not be anymore less true. It is a must for overall health and for keeping your body firing on all cylinders. It took me getting a coach to realize this bc at that point I HAD to do it but I am very thankful that I eventually learned the importance of cardio.

Same here on the cardio and I sucked wind because of it...im starting a new cycle soon but have taken a different approach this time, this time I started increasing my cardio in front of the cycle so I have a routine set. I actually do cardio before I allow myself to hit the weights...so far so good.

 

[Doug 64]

So when I do my blood work prior to cycle I make sure all markers are perfect. During cycle if I don’t have high blood pressure, or show any signs of not being well I don’t see a point and that’s just me. If I don’t have any symptoms I don’t need it.

If my estrogen level is extremely high and I mean extreme I will have all the symptoms related and I would do the test. You need estrogen to grow so little elevated is not a problem. Many will crash them by taking too much AI.

I don’t disagree with you my friend. Like I always say I just post based on my experience. What I put here might work or not for some and certainly not all the steps. What ever works for you personally you should continue. This is the purpose of this great site, so we can discuss what works for us individually and let everyone decides which path they want to take.

If it ain't broke don't fix it...I live by that shit!

 

[Wiseguy]

Same here on the cardio and I sucked wind because of it...im starting a new cycle soon but have taken a different approach this time, this time I started increasing my cardio in front of the cycle so I have a routine set. I actually do cardio before I allow myself to hit the weights...so far so good.

Awesome. Cycle or not I do one hour of cardio daily. I will not skip cardio days, but I do skip lifting.

 

[Mean Gene]

Great info thank you