Cycle thoughts and help.

[Digital_outlaw]

I am a 24yo male, i have been on 200mg TRT for a little over 3 months. My testosterone levels were low (277ng/dl) so i decided to hop on with my clinic. This brought my testosterone to 1240ng/dl. Felt fantastic and 3 weeks ago i added 50mg anavar split 25mg morning 25mg pre workout sublingually. And yesterday added in some NPP. I will dose the NPP at 200mg so 1:1 ratio with my testosterone. I do have caber and aromasin on hand if needed. Planning to finish out the 5 weeks left on anavar (8 weeks total) and run NPP for 10 weeks. I will be getting a full bloodwork panel every 4 weeks.

I recently ordered some primo for after the NPP, as a way to bridge between the compounds. I understand that anything less than 400mg is really just wasting it. So i would like to run 400mg primo with my testosterone. My question is, on 200mg of testosterone 400mg of primo would certainly crash my E2 correct? What would be a good ratio to run my testosterone at with the primo to maintain a balance, but mitigate side effects? TRT has increased my hematocrit to 51% and i am getting slightly higher blood pressure from 200mg. So i will need to donate to bring hematocrit down. My concern is with increasing my testosterone, i will only be increasing blood pressure and hematocrit further.

I have attached my bloodwork from 06/16 on the 200mg of testosterone. This test was taken 36 hours after pinning, fasted and early morning.

 

[Digital_outlaw]

for context of training and nutrition. I am doing high volume with a back thickness emphasis. Progressive overload, focusing on fourm rather than ego lifting.

For nutrition, clean eating. Eating in a surplus and eating 6 meals a day for carb timing and optimal protein absorption.

 

[Meetketchup]

What does your physique look like? How advanced are you?

 

[Digital_outlaw]

What does your physique look like? How advanced are you?

Current physique. Been working out for 2 years. Would say intermediate. Lots of room for improvement, and i know i jumped the gun early with the compounds. However I understand and accept the risks. Though i would like to ensure i do things as safe as i can.

 

[Meetketchup]

Current physique. Been working out for 2 years. Would say intermediate. Lots of room for improvement, and i know i jumped the gun early with the compounds. However I understand and accept the risks. Though i would like to ensure i do things as safe as i can.

Would love to help, but as you said you are jumping the gun big time. You could make sick progress on just the trt for a good 1-2 years, so I will let others help you out.

I wish you luck in whatever you decide, but you will probably regret jumping the gun. Being honest out of respect for you.

 

[Digital_outlaw]

Would love to help, but as you said you are jumping the gun big time. You could make sick progress on just the trt for a good 1-2 years, so I will let others help you out.

I wish you luck in whatever you decide, but you will probably regret jumping the gun. Being honest out of respect for you.

Totally understand. Appreciate the honesty and advice. Thank you.

 

[Astro95]

You need to train harder and very possibly eat better. That’s what I’d focus on first.

 

[Bigjape34]

My 2 cents from someone who started wya to early utilize the test and train hard and eat right first. Than as a first cycle do a higher just test like 4-500mg. Add in one compound the next time to see how your body reacts. Adding in 2-3 at a time you don’t know what’s doing what to you etc.

 

[Digital_outlaw]

My 2 cents from someone who started wya to early utilize the test and train hard and eat right first. Than as a first cycle do a higher just test like 4-500mg. Add in one compound the next time to see how your body reacts. Adding in 2-3 at a time you don’t know what’s doing what to you etc.

Thats a good point. I added in anavar and should have waited to introduce the NPP till after the anavar cycle but read that they word really well together. I want to run test higher but with my blood pressure and hematocrit i want to get that under control before increasing the dose. I would like to avoid using an AI as much as possible so I thought primo would be a good alternative to push my testosterone dose up and manage estrogen. But im not sure what ratio to start at. 400:400 so 1:1 or 300 test 400 primo? I dont want to tank E2 but i also dont want to run test so high that side effects get out of hand.

Other than the hematocrit and slight increase in BP. I have had no other side effects. And my E2 is at 39 so not out of range. So the 200mg has been treating me well. Definitely making lots of progress on that.

 

[Glycomann]

The nagging question in my mind is why did you test at 277ng/dL at 24 years of age? Did you use SARMS or prohormones or something ? That is about 1/2 to 1/3 of what is should be at your age.

 

[Digital_outlaw]

The nagging question in my mind is why did you test at 277ng/dL at 24 years of age? Did you use SARMS or prohormones or something ? That is about 1/2 to 1/3 of what is should be at your age.

No never used anything like that. Just testosterone boosters from amazon. I do have a history with prior drug use. So maybe could be a factor. Or a testicle injury from when i was younger.

 

[Glycomann]

No never used anything like that. Just testosterone boosters from amazon. I do have a history with prior drug use. So maybe could be a factor. Or a testicle injury from when i was younger.

You seem very excited to try every anabolic you can. You might want to be careful. You could dive in pretty deep. After a couple years you will likely to be sterile going from cycle to TRT and back again. It can be treated but you might have great difficulty conceiving. It's something to think about. So could be no children in the future for you adn some women you might want to make a family with, no grandchildren.. nothing. If you have no brothers then that is the end of your father's blood line. TRT is going to have you suppressed indefinitely. If it were me i might have looked into the cause of low test a little further. When I got into this I cycled on and off. I was one of those that recovered good levels when I went off for a few months and I was able to conceive. Now my sperm is probably zero after cycling for years followed by TRT for a long time. I have my kids but you are in a very different place in life than me. Your whole life is in front of you. Back in my day everybody cycled on and off and pretty much to the man we all were able to sire children. Now everyone blasts and cruises or coming off means staying on TRT, so it's common to have issues having children. A lot of guys will say otherwise but this is what I'm seeing after near 40 years in this. Good luck.

 

[Conmike41]

Vigorous Steve and Chase Irons have great videos about 1st cycles

View: https://youtu.be/dlF2reqFz1g?si=rAMBerrKlE37oSZH



Your First Injectable Steroid Cycle for Beginners

Your Ultimate Guide to Your First Steroid Cycle

I would just stick w TEST for now

See how high you can go without needing an AI

Eat in a calorie surplus… 1-1.5 grams of protein per pound of body weight

Higher carb, lower fat

Progressive overload .. RP has a great app for training and progressive overload as well as a diet AP . Been using the training app 6 months and it’s great for tracking your lifts and your weights, really keeps you on track

RP Hypertrophy App - Bodybuilding App, Muscle Growth Workouts

Maximize muscle growth with the RP Hypertrophy App, the ultimate bodybuilding app. Get personalized training, track progress, and achieve your goals

rpstrength.com

 

[Digital_outlaw]

You seem very excited to try every anabolic you can. You might want to be careful. You could dive in pretty deep. After a couple years you will likely to be sterile going from cycle to TRT and back again. It can be treated but you might have great difficulty conceiving. It's something to think about. So could be no children in the future for you adn some women you might want to make a family with, no grandchildren.. nothing. If you have no brothers then that is the end of your father's blood line. TRT is going to have you suppressed indefinitely. If it were me i might have looked into the cause of low test a little further. When I got into this I cycled on and off. I was one of those that recovered good levels when I went off for a few months and I was able to conceive. Now my sperm is probably zero after cycling for years followed by TRT for a long time. I have my kids but you are in a very different place in life than me. Your whole life is in front of you. Back in my day everybody cycled on and off and pretty much to the man we all were able to sire children. Now everyone blasts and cruises or coming off means staying on TRT, so it's common to have issues having children. A lot of guys will say otherwise but this is what I'm seeing after near 40 years in this. Good luck.

Thank you for the wise words. I appreciate the knowledge and concern. I understand the effect this can have on fertility. My doctor is helping me manage that. I do agree that i got pretty deep into this, however i still have a regard for safety which is why i wanted some advice going forward. if im going to do this i want to ensure i do it as safe as possible and reduce sides as much as i can.

 

[Wardamn]

Take some test only cylces and learn to train for a few years.

You are a beginner. I can guarantee you don't know how to really train. A little ego lifting at this point wouldn't be a bad thing.

 

[Powerhousehb]

Are you taking buprenorphine aka Suboxone? That will shut you down for good. Ask me how I know!...
Same for drug use depending on what you were using.

 

[Digital_outlaw]

Are you taking buprenorphine aka Suboxone? That will shut you down for good. Ask me how I know!...
Same for drug use depending on what you were using.

No, right now just 200mg testosterone, 50mg anavar, 12.5mg enclomiphine, and just added 200mg NPP.

I also take supplements to support overall health.
Potassium citrate, Coq10, berberine, omega 3 fish oil, tudca, daily greens supplement, 5mg cialis (not a supplement ik) and magnesium.

 

[Digital_outlaw]

Are you taking buprenorphine aka Suboxone? That will shut you down for good. Ask me how I know!...
Same for drug use depending on what you were using.

When i was abusing drugs i did abuse opiates and benzos very heavily. No suboxone, but oxy’s etc.. been clean since 2019.

 

[Powerhousehb]

No, right now just 200mg testosterone, 50mg anavar, 12.5mg enclomiphine, and just added 200mg NPP.

I also take supplements to support overall health.
Potassium citrate, Coq10, berberine, omega 3 fish oil, tudca, daily greens supplement, 5mg cialis (not a supplement ik) and magnesium.

I was just throwing it out there from my own experience.

Good sup list! I

 

[Powerhousehb]

When i was abusing drugs i did abuse opiates and benzos very heavily. No suboxone, but oxy’s etc.. been clean since 2019.

There you go! Same goes for me. I've been clean since 2018 of opiates and benzos. Its was hell getting off them. I was taking 30 pills a day at my worst of whatever I could get. Never fentyl.

 

[Digital_outlaw]

There you go! Same goes for me. I've been clean since 2018 of opiates and benzos. Its was hell getting off them. I was taking 30 pills a day at my worst of whatever I could get. Never fentyl.

Love to hear your clean and doing well brother! That was the hardest time in my life. I OD numerous times. Im lucky to be alive. I assume they definitely played a major roll in why my testosterone levels were so low. Very grateful to be off that stuff. And feel the best i have ever felt in my life on the TRT! Feel how i should be feeling as a 24yo! Its great!

 

[Powerhousehb]

Love to hear your clean and doing well brother! That was the hardest time in my life. I OD numerous times. Im lucky to be alive. I assume they definitely played a major roll in why my testosterone levels were so low. Very grateful to be off that stuff. And feel the best i have ever felt in my life on the TRT! Feel how i should be feeling as a 24yo! Its great!

Happy to hear your also doing well. Its a hard road to get off that stuff. I never o.d. one time I was driving and I blacked out. Then woke up a whilr driving. Hit the center divider popped my tire bent the rim. Scared the shit outt me. And I had a baggy of Ativan about 1000 of them wrapped up.

 

[Digital_outlaw]

Happy to hear your also doing well. Its a hard road to get off that stuff. I never o.d. one time I was driving and I blacked out. Then woke up a whilr driving. Hit the center divider popped my tire bent the rim. Scared the shit outt me. And I had a baggy of Ativan about 1000 of them wrapped up.

Indeed it is. Overcoming that was the hardest thing ive ever done. Damn brother that’s enough to scare me sober! It took an OD in the hospital for me to clean my shit up. But will never go back to that!

 

[BigBack93]

For me if I were you id stick to the TRT dose and 100mg primo or even just the 200mg mast and see what you can make of that and lets see you back in 3 or 6 months.

 

[Maxwell]

typical new guy who asks for advice and doesn't want to listen.


first cycle is always test only and so is the second.

you also dont have any visible abs so you are considered fat in this world

if I was in your position knowing what I do now... and had money to get tested every 4 weeks with full labs unless I read that wrong..... I would hire a coach its probably cheaper then you think and follow what they say.

that being said if you go that route you need to be honest and not do what you want to do and lie you need to actually listen pretty much the opposite of what you just did asked for advice and then said fuck it.

Just look at what happen to Iran they said fuck it and didn't listen.

you are young tho and not many people are responsible enough to listen at 24 you got lots of mistakes to be made ahead of you, I would not let this be one of them.

There are many great coaches here.

 

[Digital_outlaw]

typical new guy who asks for advice and doesn't want to listen.


first cycle is always test only and so is the second.

you also dont have any visible abs so you are considered fat in this world

if I was in your position knowing what I do now... and had money to get tested every 4 weeks with full labs unless I read that wrong..... I would hire a coach its probably cheaper then you think and follow what they say.

that being said if you go that route you need to be honest and not do what you want to do and lie you need to actually listen pretty much the opposite of what you just did asked for advice and then said fuck it.

Just look at what happen to Iran they said fuck it and didn't listen.

you are young tho and not many people are responsible enough to listen at 24 you got lots of mistakes to be made ahead of you, I would not let this be one of them.

There are many great coaches here.

yes labs every 4 weeks. My doc is helping me keep bloodwork in range and is fully aware of what all i am taking.

Money is no issue, health comes first and quality products. I would love to hire a coach but i just lack the knowledge on where to start with one. I would want to make sure they are qualified before. Right now my doc who is also running PED’s is my “coach” but he is not a body building coach just a trt clinic doctor that is helping me manage labs and stay safe. So if someone could point me in the right direction for a qualified coach im all ears.

I really do want to do things as safe as i can. Thats why im asking for help.. i may have jumped into it all excited but its not too late to turn back.

But any advice on a good coach would be greatly appreciated thanks.

 

[BBruce]

for context of training and nutrition. I am doing high volume with a back thickness emphasis. Progressive overload, focusing on fourm rather than ego lifting.

For nutrition, clean eating. Eating in a surplus and eating 6 meals a day for carb timing and optimal protein absorption.

When ppl say this I just know they don’t train hard enough, ego lifting is underrated. I’m not saying to do something stupid and hurt yourself but if you want real gains you have to train heavy.

 

[Maxwell]

If your doctor was a real coach he wouldn't let you run anything but test right now..... you are doing this wrong. but to each there own I pretty much laid it out as well as other people who have done this alot longer have too... you are going against the grain.... you are not riding the horse the way it is going.

 

[nightwing]

time is on your side, and its going to take time to grow. you'd probably look great if you leaned out. the peds may help but no real shortcuts. just eating and hard work. kudos for posting a pic and being honest. the amount of information overload out there for minimal gains overall is mind numbing. keep grinding work a solid plan for a year you'll grow like a weed.