Bible Thread

[tatertot]

Belgic Confession Article 1: The Only God​

We all believe in our hearts
and confess with our mouths
that there is a single
and simple
spiritual being,
whom we call God—
eternal,
incomprehensible,
invisible,
unchangeable,
infinite,
almighty;
completely wise,
just,
and good,
and the overflowing source
of all good.

 

[killagorilla]

And I'll add... the ONLY source to lead a man through an ugly custody battle against an angry and vindictive woman, with peace of mind and a peaceful heart. His peace passes all understanding. He proves that in my life every day, and I try to prove it to the world by allowing them to see my peace in the face of trials and adversity. Praise be to the One True God, JESUS!!!

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[tatertot]

And I'll add... the ONLY source to lead a man through an ugly custody battle against an angry and vindictive woman, with peace of mind and a peaceful heart. His peace passes all understanding. He proves that in my life every day, and I try to prove it to the world by allowing them to see my peace in the face of trials and adversity. Praise be to the One True God, JESUS!!!

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

Amen brother. Christ's peace and rest truly surpasses all understanding. Keep fighting the good fight and bringing glory to God!

As Paul reminds us in 1 Corinthians 2:9 and 2 Corinthians 4:17-18, the troubles of this world are but 'light momentary afflictions' and we cannot begin to imagine how awesome eternity with the Lord will be.

 

[heavyiron]

Belgic Confession Article 1: The Only God​

We all believe in our hearts
and confess with our mouths
that there is a single
and simple
spiritual being,
whom we call God—
eternal,
incomprehensible,
invisible,
unchangeable,
infinite,
almighty;
completely wise,
just,
and good,
and the overflowing source
of all good.

Two or three of those attributes probably need clarity.

Simple seems like an odd word to use for God.

We know that Jesus revealed the Father and that believers have the mind of Christ so not sure I would use the word incomprehensible in reference to God. Jesus showed us who God is.

God's character never changes but He does change His mind over and over in the OT. Maybe say His attributes are unchangeable.

Sorry, my mind gets hung up on words.

 

[Multislacking]

Two or three of those attributes probably need clarity.

Simple seems like an odd word to use for God.

We know that Jesus revealed the Father and that believers have the mind of Christ so not sure I would use the word incomprehensible in reference to God. Jesus showed us who God is.

God's character never changes but He does change His mind over and over in the OT. Maybe say His attributes are unchangeable.

Sorry, my mind gets hung up on words.

And I got hung up on "invisible"...

 

[tatertot]

Two or three of those attributes probably need clarity.

Simple seems like an odd word to use for God.

We know that Jesus revealed the Father and that believers have the mind of Christ so not sure I would use the word incomprehensible in reference to God. Jesus showed us who God is.

God's character never changes but He does change His mind over and over in the OT. Maybe say His attributes are unchangeable.

Sorry, my mind gets hung up on words.

Good points, good points. Confessions and Catechisms arent scripture so they're not infalling, inerrant, or authoritative.

I'd say we could describe God as 'simple' because anyone can grasp the concept. Even a child can understand the Gospel, and even my 4-year-old niece and nephew can understand that God made them and all things. And yet, the confession goes on to list a non-exhaustive list of attributes such as incomprehensible. God can be understood by a child, and yet, men throughout centuries have devoted their entire lives to studying Him and His word and barely scratched the surface of His incomprehensible nature.

1 Sam. 15:29; cf. Num. 23:19 - God cannot “change His mind” like we would understand. He doesnt realize a mistake, backtrack, and try a new path.
He declares the end from the beginning and from ancient times things which have not been done. These all unfold in accordance with His purpose and good pleasure (Isa. 46:10). God “works all things according to the counsel of his will,” (Eph. 1:11) and no one frustrates His plans (Job 42:1–2; Prov. 19:21; Isa. 14:26–27; Dan. 4:35)

Also, scripture uses a lot of anthropomorphic language. For example, Ps 78:65, God doesn't sleep or get drunk.


Invisible -> Since God (the Father) is a Spirit, we have not seen Him. Yes, some have seen Christ, who reveals the Father, but still, no one has seen God and He remains invisible to us this side of glory. If we did catch a glimpse of God in our current state of sin and depravity, we'd evaporate.

 

[heavyiron]

Good points, good points. Confessions and Catechisms arent scripture so they're not infalling, inerrant, or authoritative.

I'd say we could describe God as 'simple' because anyone can grasp the concept. Even a child can understand the Gospel, and even my 4-year-old niece and nephew can understand that God made them and all things. And yet, the confession goes on to list a non-exhaustive list of attributes such as incomprehensible. God can be understood by a child, and yet, men throughout centuries have devoted their entire lives to studying Him and His word and barely scratched the surface of His incomprehensible nature.

1 Sam. 15:29; cf. Num. 23:19 - God cannot “change His mind” like we would understand. He doesnt realize a mistake, backtrack, and try a new path.
He declares the end from the beginning and from ancient times things which have not been done. These all unfold in accordance with His purpose and good pleasure (Isa. 46:10). God “works all things according to the counsel of his will,” (Eph. 1:11) and no one frustrates His plans (Job 42:1–2; Prov. 19:21; Isa. 14:26–27; Dan. 4:35)

Also, scripture uses a lot of anthropomorphic language. For example, Ps 78:65, God doesn't sleep or get drunk.


Invisible -> Since God (the Father) is a Spirit, we have not seen Him. Yes, some have seen Christ, who reveals the Father, but still, no one has seen God and He remains invisible to us this side of glory. If we did catch a glimpse of God in our current state of sin and depravity, we'd evaporate.

Serious question, do you read the context of verses before posting them? Might study 1 Sam 15 and Num 23 further. He is saying He will not repent of these specific declarations not every declaration. Once you see that then ask yourself why? It's an amazing study into the mind of God. I hope you don't see this as a debate you have to win. Just learn the scriptures and think about Him.

Your assignment is to find every occurrence that God changes His mind in the OT. Haha

 

[tatertot]

Serious question, do you read the context of verses before posting them? ...I hope you don't see this as a debate you have to win. ....Your assignment is to find every occurrence that God changes His mind in the OT. Haha

I appreciate the shade and am curious how you see this as a debate since this is the second time you (and only you) have accused me of "debating" here.
This morning I posted 1 time to which you and Multi commented on... and then I added a second post with some context and scripture. This is a forum and only so much can be said in 1 post.

Yes I read context (as you accused me of not doing last week), and No I dont see this as a debate. If you do see it as a debate, I'll stop posting now.

......


I believed this was a place where like-minded Christians could kick around ideas about God and His Word. Because He is vast, there will be differences in thought. If this thread is meant to be a one-way thought street (your thoughts and ways... and replies are met with an ad hominem), then I'll stop replying to you. I'm not here to debate, and it apears you see my posts as such.


i'm just a dumb meat head that loves Jesus and the Bible (and anabolics) and enjoy discussing them.

......

as you requested here's some verses on God "repenting/changing His mind" (there's more but i didnt go through every entry in the concordance) -

Genesis 6:6, 2 Samuel 24:16, 1 Chronicles 21:15, Psalm 106:45, Jeremiah 18:3-18, Jeremiah 26:13, Jonah 3, Jonah 4, Amos 7, Number 23, 1 Samuel 15, Malachi 3, Romans 11, Hebrews 6, James 1

The question is, how do we reconcile this with the fact that God is omniscient, sovereign and declared the end from the begining (Isaiah 46)?

Does God Change His Mind? | Reformed Theological Seminary

Exodus 32:11-18Does God Change His Mind? Exodus, chapters 25 through 40, is a section that teaches Israel how to worship, how God is to be worshiped rightly, and in the middle, in chapter 32, we find this story about idolatry and infidelity to the living God. We've already noted that there are...

rts.edu

 

[killagorilla]

Serious question, do you read the context of verses before posting them? Might study 1 Sam 15 and Num 23 further. He is saying He will not repent of these specific declarations not every declaration. Once you see that then ask yourself why? It's an amazing study into the mind of God. I hope you don't see this as a debate you have to win. Just learn the scriptures and think about Him.

Your assignment is to find every occurrence that God changes His mind in the OT. Haha

Yea, man. There's gotta be tons of CHARITY among brothers. Love and charity. Especially in this evil age. "They'll know us by our love."
I dig finding a place where other meat heads love and discuss the Lord, but I'll have to head out if it gets into a scripture pissing contest. If it's not outside the pale of orthodox Christianity, then CHARITY. I love all my brothers. When we only have text to go by, we have to be EXTRA CLEAR on meaning and intent. Amen?

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[heavyiron]

Yea, man. There's gotta be tons of CHARITY among brothers. Love and charity. Especially in this evil age. "They'll know us by our love."
I dig finding a place where other meat heads love and discuss the Lord, but I'll have to head out if it gets into a scripture pissing contest. If it's not outside the pale of orthodox Christianity, then CHARITY. I love all my brothers. When we only have text to go by, we have to be EXTRA CLEAR on meaning and intent. Amen?

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

You might be reading something into my response that I did not intend. My intent is knowing Him and knowing His word. If you ever doubt that feel free to ask my intent. I will honestly relay it every time.

 

[heavyiron]

I appreciate the shade and am curious how you see this as a debate since this is the second time you (and only you) have accused me of "debating" here.
This morning I posted 1 time to which you and Multi commented on... and then I added a second post with some context and scripture. This is a forum and only so much can be said in 1 post.

Yes I read context (as you accused me of not doing last week), and No I dont see this as a debate. If you do see it as a debate, I'll stop posting now.

......


I believed this was a place where like-minded Christians could kick around ideas about God and His Word. Because He is vast, there will be differences in thought. If this thread is meant to be a one-way thought street (your thoughts and ways... and replies are met with an ad hominem), then I'll stop replying to you. I'm not here to debate, and it apears you see my posts as such.


i'm just a dumb meat head that loves Jesus and the Bible (and anabolics) and enjoy discussing them.

......

as you requested here's some verses on God "repenting/changing His mind" (there's more but i didnt go through every entry in the concordance) -



The question is, how do we reconcile this with the fact that God is omniscient, sovereign and declared the end from the begining (Isaiah 46)?

Does God Change His Mind? | Reformed Theological Seminary

Exodus 32:11-18Does God Change His Mind? Exodus, chapters 25 through 40, is a section that teaches Israel how to worship, how God is to be worshiped rightly, and in the middle, in chapter 32, we find this story about idolatry and infidelity to the living God. We've already noted that there are...

rts.edu

Not sure where this is coming from but I'm not accusing you of anything. If you use scripture out of context when replying to me I'm going to point that out. I can see that its hard on you so I will give you some space.

Have a great night.

 

[Fletcher]

A great message I listened to this morning regarding motive and the difference between physical and spiritual sin, and of course... the remedy.

 

[killagorilla]

You might be reading something into my response that I did not intend. My intent is knowing Him and knowing His word. If you ever doubt that feel free to ask my intent. I will honestly relay it every time.

Excellent!!! Thank you for clarifying.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

 

[heavyiron]

“About the time of the end, a body of men will be raised up who will turn their attention to the Prophecies, and insist upon their literal interpretation, in the midst of much clamor and opposition.” Sir Isaac Newton.

 

[Milford King]

What’s the difference between a fundamental Christian and an orthodox Christian?

Serious question..

 

[Multislacking]

I prefer the KISS philosophy.

Matthew 22
37 Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”

If we can't get these two correct, everything else is moot.

 

[Milford King]

I prefer the KISS philosophy.

Matthew 22
37 Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”

If we can't get these two correct, everything else is moot.

Yeah. I was just confused because in my mind orthodox is fundamental. You read the word of God and you base your understanding and your personal life on that.

I mean it’s easy for a Christian to admit that some versions of Christianity had oddly adapted a lot of pagan traditions in it, sometimes overtly sometimes obvious.

I am also curious to get tatertot, fletcher, heavyiron, multi and anyone else who is interested and fairly read up on their Christian faith to discuss how they feel and interpret various “lost” books that aren’t found in the old or new testaments. Books like Enoch.

I’m nowhere nears as knowledgeable on any of this as a lot of you guys but I’m extremely intrigued and interested in it all. I just feel like their is way more to it. I know I’ll never be able to understand it fully.

 

[Multislacking]

Yeah. I was just confused because in my mind orthodox is fundamental. You read the word of God and you base your understanding and your personal life on that.

I mean it’s easy for a Christian to admit that some versions of Christianity had oddly adapted a lot of pagan traditions in it, sometimes overtly sometimes obvious.

I am also curious to get tatertot, fletcher, heavyiron, multi and anyone else who is interested and fairly read up on their Christian faith to discuss how they feel and interpret various “lost” books that aren’t found in the old or new testaments. Books like Enoch.

I’m nowhere nears as knowledgeable on any of this as a lot of you guys but I’m extremely intrigued and interested in it all. I just feel like their is way more to it. I know I’ll never be able to understand it fully.

Bible Thread

I think bullets will be far more valuable in my opinion. Start pressing your own and you can conquer the future broken world lol I have couple few of those laying around the house

www.anabolicsteroidforums.com

I'll stand by my original post on Enoch. ^^^

It's been a minute since I read it (and the others). But Enoch had some stuff that would be declared outright blasphemy as I recall. Pretty sure I distinctly remember it saying Enoch was transformed INTO Jesus. I may be off a bit, but that is vaguely what I remember. So if we were to believe that....Jesus was with God in creation (according to the rest of scripture), was born as Enoch, lived and then God took Him and transformed Him back into Jesus. And then He would have went to Earth again as Mary's son.

The rest of it makes for entertaining reading though. I'm dubious that angels have procreation abilities. Let alone having compatible dna with humans. I suspect Enoch was a haphazard attempt at merging early christian texts with ancient pagan gods. If it were successful, the old pagan gods could have been declared the angel/human hybrids and you could have fit everything together. I guess...

 

[Milford King]

Bible Thread

I think bullets will be far more valuable in my opinion. Start pressing your own and you can conquer the future broken world lol I have couple few of those laying around the house

www.anabolicsteroidforums.com

I'll stand by my original post on Enoch. ^^^

It's been a minute since I read it (and the others). But Enoch had some stuff that would be declared outright blasphemy as I recall. Pretty sure I distinctly remember it saying Enoch was transformed INTO Jesus. I may be off a bit, but that is vaguely what I remember. So if we were to believe that....Jesus was with God in creation (according to the rest of scripture), was born as Enoch, lived and then God took Him and transformed Him back into Jesus. And then He would have went to Earth again as Mary's son.

The rest of it makes for entertaining reading though. I'm dubious that angels have procreation abilities. Let alone having compatible dna with humans. I suspect Enoch was a haphazard attempt at merging early christian texts with ancient pagan gods. If it were successful, the old pagan gods could have been declared the angel/human hybrids and you could have fit everything together. I guess...

I admit I’m not read up on it but I thought I remember it saying Enoch was Noah’s great grandfather and he was 395 years old and never died but was taken to Gods kingdom.

It’s a crazy book and I definitely agree that it’s difficult to say these belong in the Bible. The only thing they really have going for them is that they were probably written 2000 plus years ago. But it’s not a stretch to say they were counterfeit to begin with.

But yea. It makes sense that it was an attempt by pagans to merge. That’s exactly what Konstantine accomplished after he took over the Roman Empire and build Constantinople. You can see it in the architecture he built. He tried to inject himself into the culture as Jesus himself.

 

[heavyiron]

Yeah. I was just confused because in my mind orthodox is fundamental. You read the word of God and you base your understanding and your personal life on that.

I mean it’s easy for a Christian to admit that some versions of Christianity had oddly adapted a lot of pagan traditions in it, sometimes overtly sometimes obvious.

I am also curious to get tatertot, fletcher, heavyiron, multi and anyone else who is interested and fairly read up on their Christian faith to discuss how they feel and interpret various “lost” books that aren’t found in the old or new testaments. Books like Enoch.

I’m nowhere nears as knowledgeable on any of this as a lot of you guys but I’m extremely intrigued and interested in it all. I just feel like their is way more to it. I know I’ll never be able to understand it fully.

I think the definitions of orthodox and fundamentalist have morphed over time. Today I think many folks would define fundamentalist as someone who believes in extra doctrines. In other words, an orthodox may see deity of Christ as a necessary doctrine but maybe not premillennialism where a fundamentalist would say both are essential. At the end of the day, it's a label. A label that many may not fit into.

I don't believe Enoch is Biblical, but I have read most of it. It fills in some of the gaps about the watchers in my humble opinion. I would become an expert on Biblical material before reading apocryphal books though.

 

[Multislacking]

This is the lazy google answer, but it pretty much sums it up:

"The text of the Book of Genesis says Enoch lived 365 years before he was taken by God. The text reads that Enoch "walked with God: and he was no more; for God took him" (Gen 5:21–24), which is interpreted as Enoch's entering heaven alive in some Jewish and Christian traditions, and interpreted differently in others."

And that is pretty much exactly how I would sum it up as well. The bible clearly states Enoch was a real person. So he existed. Beyond the scope of that, it is 100% speculation. Heavy can probably provide a closer answer to the actual scriptural context of the words that were translated. I've always had to rely on the interpretations that are out there and trust that "toro" is "bull" when translated (for example). But if it is one of those words that can have multiple meanings, then you have to take it in context and with the use of it in the rest of scripture and the context there.

But again, KISS...my salvation has zero bearing on whether or not Enoch went straight to heaven while alive or indeed he died like everyone else.

 

[heavyiron]

This is the lazy google answer, but it pretty much sums it up:

"The text of the Book of Genesis says Enoch lived 365 years before he was taken by God. The text reads that Enoch "walked with God: and he was no more; for God took him" (Gen 5:21–24), which is interpreted as Enoch's entering heaven alive in some Jewish and Christian traditions, and interpreted differently in others."

And that is pretty much exactly how I would sum it up as well. The bible clearly states Enoch was a real person. So he existed. Beyond the scope of that, it is 100% speculation. Heavy can probably provide a closer answer to the actual scriptural context of the words that were translated. I've always had to rely on the interpretations that are out there and trust that "toro" is "bull" when translated (for example). But if it is one of those words that can have multiple meanings, then you have to take it in context and with the use of it in the rest of scripture and the context there.

But again, KISS...my salvation has zero bearing on whether or not Enoch went straight to heaven while alive or indeed he died like everyone else.

Enoch being taken to heaven is considered an early rapture concept to some. Same with the arc being lifted above the entire world's judgment. Some seriously cool types and shadows in this stuff.

 

[tatertot]

..... how they feel and interpret various “lost” books that aren’t found in the old or new testaments. Books like Enoch.

I’m nowhere nears as knowledgeable on any of this as a lot of you guys but I’m extremely intrigued and interested in it all. I just feel like their is way more to it. I know I’ll never be able to understand it fully.

I havent read much of those Apocrypha books. My opinion would be like Spurgeon said “Visit many good books, but live in the Bible.” Only the 66 books of Scripture are authoritative, innerrant, and infallible. All other books and people are capable of error. So heck, read em if you want, or dont read em if you dont want


Belgic Article 5 & 6 sums it up nicely

Article 5: The Authority of Scripture

We receive all these books
and these only
as holy and canonical,
for the regulating, founding, and establishing
of our faith.

And we believe
without a doubt
all things contained in them—

not so much because the church
receives and approves them as such
but above all because the Holy Spirit
testifies in our hearts
that they are from God,
and also because they
prove themselves
to be from God.

For even the blind themselves are able to see
that the things predicted in them
do happen.

Article 6: The Difference Between Canonical and Apocryphal Books
We distinguish between these holy books
and the apocryphal ones,

which are the third and fourth books of Esdras;
the books of Tobit, Judith, Wisdom, Jesus Sirach, Baruch;
what was added to the Story of Esther;
the Song of the Three Children in the Furnace;
the Story of Susannah;
the Story of Bel and the Dragon;
the Prayer of Manasseh;
and the two books of Maccabees.

The church may certainly read these books
and learn from them
as far as they agree with the canonical books.
But they do not have such power and virtue
that one could confirm
from their testimony
any point of faith or of the Christian religion.
Much less can they detract
from the authority
of the other holy books.

 

[tatertot]

Have been chatting with a friend lately and Romans 5:1-11 has been such a blessing. What a hope we can have NOW as we rest in Jesus and His righteousness imputed to us who were once dead in our sins and enemies of God.

Romans 5:1-11​

Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. Through him we have also obtained access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and we rejoice in hope of the glory of God. Not only that, but we rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance, and endurance produces character, and character produces hope, and hope does not put us to shame, because God’s love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who has been given to us. For while we were still weak, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly. For one will scarcely die for a righteous person—though perhaps for a good person one would dare even to die— but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God. For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life. More than that, we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.

 

[Multislacking]

Have been chatting with a friend lately and Romans 5:1-11 has been such a blessing. What a hope we can have NOW as we rest in Jesus and His righteousness imputed to us who were once dead in our sins and enemies of God.

Romans 5:1-11​

Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. Through him we have also obtained access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and we rejoice in hope of the glory of God. Not only that, but we rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance, and endurance produces character, and character produces hope, and hope does not put us to shame, because God’s love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who has been given to us. For while we were still weak, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly. For one will scarcely die for a righteous person—though perhaps for a good person one would dare even to die— but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God. For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life. More than that, we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.

Hope is one of the greatest gifts we have. I thank Him every day for it.

 

[heavyiron]

Ezekiel 38:13 Sheba and Dedan and the merchants of Tarshish and all its leaders will say to you, ‘Have you come to seize spoil? Have you assembled your hosts to carry off plunder, to carry away silver and gold, to take away livestock and goods, to seize great spoil?’

 

[01dragonslayer]

I completely forgot this forum had this awesome thread.

Thanks for resurrecting it.

Psalm 24:3.

 

[tatertot]

Read Psalm 57 in devotions this morning. What a terrific reminder that God is sovereign even when the world's crushing weight is coming down. Let us trust in Christ and run to Him for refuge (and pray for those around us to do the same).

1Be merciful to me, O God, be merciful to me,
for in you my soul takes refuge;
in the shadow of your wings I will take refuge,
till the storms of destruction pass by.
2I cry out to God Most High,
to God who fulfills his purpose for me.
3He will send from heaven and save me;
he will put to shame him who tramples on me. Selah
God will send out his steadfast love and his faithfulness!
4My soul is in the midst of lions;
I lie down amid fiery beasts—
the children of man, whose teeth are spears and arrows,
whose tongues are sharp swords.
5Be exalted, O God, above the heavens!
Let your glory be over all the earth!
....

10For your steadfast love is great to the heavens,
your faithfulness to the clouds.
11Be exalted, O God, above the heavens!
Let your glory be over all the earth!

 

[heavyiron]

In the early to mid 1970's I was a young child. One day my grandmother died, and I asked my mom "where did she go"? "Is she in a box in the ground or is there something else"? We started attending church shortly thereafter, haha. I had heard the gospel numerous times and frankly I just believed it. One week during a home church meeting the leader asked if anyone had made a decision for Christ that night. In my mind I thought no I made a decision earlier than today, so I remained quiet. Some years later my parents placed me into a private school that also taught Bible. They were a Baptist school with Baptist curriculum. However, my parents attended a charismatic church, so I was getting 2 different denominational viewpoints on scripture. Looking back, I would characterize the Baptists as mildly legalistic and the charismatics as almost Biblically illiterate. They constantly took scripture out of context. But in all my life I have never seen worship like the charismatics. People truly crying out to God, praying, lifting hands and totally surrendering to God during worship. It was beautiful.

Once I got out of high school, I had about 5 years of formal Bible training. I still attended charismatic style church and continued my relationship with the One who made us. One day a young Jehovah witness knocked on my door. We had a great discussion and I soon realized she knew her Bible very well. This led me down a research path to research "cults". I read a few books on cults and the Jehovah Witnesses. Do not underestimate them, they can make a theological pretzel out of the average Christian inside 5 minutes. I also had an appetite for apologetics. I read various authors on Theistic evolution, young earth, evidence for my faith, etc. My prayers during this time centered on knowing truth even if it conflicted with my beliefs. I was open to any view that could be proven by the Book.

One night I was watching a talk show that focused on politics, current events and Bible. Super interesting guy so every week I watched his show. He made quite a few statements about the Bible that I had never heard before. He even took the opposite view of what many Christians believe. Every single time he provided clear concise scriptural reasons for his views. So here I was, a five-year formal Bible student, avid reader of Biblical info and church attended for about 15 years and this guy was schooling me every week. My prayer during this period is that God would put into my path an older man who knew the Book and could teach me. I prayed this over and over and over. It then occurred to me that I should find this guy's church and go there. He clearly knew more than me, he knew more than most Christians. One night he mentioned his church. I called the next morning and requested a doctrinal statement. When I received the doctrinal statement in the mail, I saw doctrines I had never heard of. Some I didn't even understand. Keep in mind when I took the SAT I tested in the top 1% in the nation for reading comprehension. 99th percentile.

The church had a series of classes like a seminary, so I enrolled and started taking classes. It was a STEEP learning curve. My professor was an answer to my prayers. A wise older man with a wealth of knowledge. He taught advanced theology and advanced Greek. After 3-4 years I had a pretty decent grasp on the Bible, but I still had questions. My professor said I needed Greek to go any further. I seriously hated grammar and English class when I was younger, so I resisted. Finally, after more thought I decided to take beginning Greek if my wife would attend with me. She knew more grammar than me and I figured she could help me. IT WAS TOUGH to say the least. After one year I could see why it was important though. It brought more clarity to certain doctrines. However, it made me realize just how little I knew. It was a paradox. You reach a point of learning that exposes questions that you never knew existed, so it causes even more questions. Beware of folks who "have all the answers."

To this day I pray to understand Him and His Book. It is also my prayer for everyone reading this thread. It's a lifetime journey and we are only scratching the surface. To Him be all the glory.

 

[killagorilla]

Thanks for sharing your story. My journey has some similarities, that search for ultimate truth, keeping an open mind. One thing I've concluded: No matter how much I try to understand His word, at the end of the day, faith is still the key to my relationship with Him. I think He chose FAITH to shame the wisdom of the world and to allow the most simple amongst us to be the greatest warriors.

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