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T3 without clen for cutting

JaceBon

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Before anyone blasts me saying “use the search tab asshole” I have spent about an hour trying to find what I could on T3 or even T4. Found a little on T3 with clen but I figured it wouldn’t hurt to start a fresh thread.

I made a last minute decision to buy some T3 to throw in with my blast. I decided against combining it with clen because I already sweat like a whore as it is. Anyhow my question is: how can I run T3 without clen to cut without sacrificing muscle? I’m running test mast and var, so I already got kind of a “cutting cycle” going but I figured this would be the icing on the cake.

Now I’m NOT using T3 as an excuse to not diet. My diet and cardio are there, so my plan was to run it at a relatively low dose so that I’m not relying on it but also so that I don’t have to worry about burning away my precious muscle. I was thinking of just going 50mcg for 6 weeks but I’d like to hear everyone’s opinions.
 
Honestly you could google T3 bodybuilding and find plenty of info. But I enjoy spoon feeding soooo

Of course you can use T3 without clen.

I wouldn’t use T3 unless you’re running gear.

50 mcgs is a decent dose to start with.

I wouldn’t run any drug unless you do as much research as you can. Asking people on a forum questions doesn’t count as research.

Best of luck
 
Butterfly Effect: The Basics Of The Thyroid - Part 1.
Mark Subsinsky
Mark Subsinsky
January 18, 2019
The thyroid is the butterfly shaped gland that impacts metabolism in adults. I will discuss the basics of the thyroid and what problems sometimes occur.

BUTTERFLY EFFECT
Definition:

A movie starring Ashton Kutcher where current events are altered by changes in the past...
The propensity of a system to be sensitive to initial conditions, and for the system becoming unpredictable over time, this idea gave rise to the notion of a butterfly flapping its wings in one area of the world causing a tornado in another remote area of the world...
The changes in metabolism and physical appearance caused by a small, butterfly-shaped gland in one's throat. For the readers here, the third definition is what concerns us most and is the topic of this series of articles.
The thyroid is the butterfly shaped gland that impacts metabolism in adults. It responds to and is regulated by feedback loops and plays a vital role in maintaining body temperature and homeostasis.

Of significant concern to the weight trainer and bodybuilder, the thyroid gland regulates the amount of bodyfat you carry by manipulating how rapidly fuels are used for basic bodily maintenance and functions.

There are a lot of issues involved with the thyroid gland for the bodybuilder and I hope to cover some of them in this two-part article. I'll discuss the basics here in Part I and things you can do in Part II

THYROID BASICS
The thyroid lies in front of your windpipe (trachea), just below your voice box (larynx). The thyroid is part of the endocrine system and produces, stores and releases hormones that affects your metabolism.

The thyroid gland uses iodine from the foods you eat to make these hormones. Additionally, the thyroid plays an important role in lipid regulation and has been shown to affect cholesterol levels.

There Are Some Significant Thyroid Health Issues To Consider1:

Thyroid issues tend to be familial (i.e.; they run in the family).
Thyroid issues tend to increase as you age.
Thyroid issues affect women more than men.
Thyroid issues and risks increase significantly for smokers.
Thyroid issues are occurring in greater numbers in America now than in the past.
One of the more common issues involved with the thyroid gland is goiters. A goiter is a significant enlargement of the thyroid gland. Most all of us have seen pictures of people with goiters when we were in school.

With modern diet and medicine, goiters are not as common as they were in the past. However, thyroid disease afflicts more than 27 million Americans and is more prevalent than diabetes or heart disease.

A feedback loop controls the level of circulating thyroid hormone. The feedback loop involves three glands - the thyroid, pituitary and hypothalamus - working in harmony.

Problems with any of these three glands can lead to reduced performance and less than optimal health. Testing and diagnosis can pinpoint where the problem lies and an appropriate course of action for recovery.

The feedback loop for thyroid hormone maintenance is not too complex. The thyroid secretes thyroid hormone when signaled from the pituitary gland. The signal is actually Thyroid Stimulating Hormone (TSH) and increasing levels of TSH tells the thyroid gland to release more hormone.

TSH secretion is in turn controlled through release of Thyrotropin Releasing Hormone (TRH), which is produced and released by the hypothalamus. TRH release is based on circulating thyroid hormone levels in the blood stream, sensed by the hypothalamus.

As with most all hormones, levels of one hormone can affect levels of another hormone. TRH, for example, has a key role in thyroid hormone level and has also been linked to growth hormone, adrenaline and insulin secretion.

Low thyroid hormone levels have also been linked to elevated cholesterol levels. Thus, it is important to maintain hormone levels in proper balance to not only optimize growth, but also maintain health.

THYROID HORMONES (T2/T3/T4)
The major metabolites of thyroid hormone discussed are T4 (thyroxine), T3 (triiodothyronine) and T2 (diiodothyronines). The designation is rather straightforward, the T represents Thyroid Hormone and the number represents the number of Iodine molecules attached to the hormone.

There are other metabolites, such as monoiodothyronine (T1), but its impact is believed to be minor. The thyroid produces and releases T4 and T3 hormones.

The thyroid releases significantly more T4 hormone than T3 hormone. Inactive thyroid hormone is T4, while the active hormone is T3. T2 is also an active hormone, but it is rather different than T3.

T2 appears to be the active hormone in only the liver and brown adipose tissue (BAT), i.e., fat cells. Most of the literature will classify T2 as inactive because of this limited activity.

Both T4 and T2 are converted to T3 through separate mechanisms and different locations. The most common conversion is mediated by the enzyme deiodinase, which converts T4 into T3, by removal of an iodine atom. The table provides a summary of this information in this section.

T4T3T2
NameThyroxineTriiodothyronineDiodothyronines
Primary ProducerThyroid ThyroidIntercellularIntercellular
ActivityInactiveActiveActive (Liver & BAT)
Release RateHighLowNone
Converts toT3T2T3
HYPOTHYROID AND HYPERTHYROID
Hypothyroid and hyperthyroid are the two terms that are often discussed with thyroid health. Both signify poor thyroid health on the opposite sides of normal. To simplify the terms:

Hypothyroid is the condition with a lack of thyroid hormone.
Hyperthyroid is the condition when thyroid hormone is in excess.
HYPOTHYROIDISM
Hypothyroidism is a condition that occurs when T4 levels drop and the body begins a metabolic slow down. Hypothyroidism was first diagnosed in the late nineteenth century when physicians observed swelling of the hands, face, feet, and tissues around the eyes after surgically removing the thyroid gland from patients. The syndrome was called myxedema and corresponds with the absence of thyroid hormones.

The term myxedema is still used today and is often associated with a severe lack of thyroid hormone that often leads to coma. Other common terms used in discussing hypothyroidism are autoimmune disease and Hashimoto's thyroiditis. Both of these ailments result in a less than fully functioning thyroid gland.

Hypothyroidism is usually progressive and irreversible, but today's treatment schedules are very successful and allow for full, normal living. Combined with the symptoms listed below in the table, a rising TSH level is a good indicator of a hypothyroid condition.

There are some unique risk factors associated with hypothyroidism. There are indications that individuals with ovarian failure, sleep apnea, premature gray hair and left-handedness are more likely to suffer from hypothyroidism.

Subclinical hypothyroidism is a more recent term used to identify increasing TSH levels and declining T4 levels.

Blood tests for T4 levels can still be normal and early symptoms of hypothyroidism may be exhibited.

Research is finding that subclinical hypothyroidism is very common (affecting about 10 million Americans). Fortunately, subclinical hypothyroidism does not often progress to the full-blown disorder in most people. However, some evidence suggests that even modest abnormal thyroid hormone levels may do some damage.

HYPOTHYROIDISM SIGNS & SYMPTOMS
Early SymptomsLate Symptoms
WeaknessSlow speech
FatigueDry flaky skin
Cold intoleranceThickening of the skin
ConstipationPuffy face, hands and feet
Weight gain (unintentional)Decreased taste and smell
DepressionThinning of eyebrows
Joint or muscle painHoarseness
Thin, brittle fingernails and hairAbnormal menstrual periods
Paleness
HYPERTHYROIDISM
Hyperthyroidism, also known as thyrotoxicosis, is a clinical condition caused by excess quantities of thyroid hormone in the body. The condition may be caused by over production by the thyroid gland or the pituitary gland releasing excessive TSH.

The excess of hormones can cause heat intolerance, increased energy, difficulty sleeping, diarrhea and anxiety and other symptoms as listed in the table.

Graves' disease is the most common condition associated with hyperthyroidism. Graves' disease is a basic defect in the immune system that causes production of antibodies that stimulate and attack the thyroid gland. This attack on the thyroid causes growth of the gland and overproduction of thyroid hormone

Factitious hyperthyroidism is another hyperthyroid condition. It is associated with ingestion of excessive amounts of thyroid hormone. Thyroid hormone preparations have been available for over a century and taking excess prescription or glandular mixtures can also cause hyperthyroid conditions.

This is a condition that bodybuilders can fall into when taking thyroid hormones.

HYPERTHYROIDISM SIGNS SYMPTOMS
Protruding eyesSleeping difficulty
Increased appetiteClammy skin
NervousnessSkin blushing or flushing
RestlessnessBounding pulse
Heat intoleranceNausea and vomiting
Increased sweatingLack of menstruation
FatigueItching - overall
Frequent bowel movementsHeartbeat sensations
Menstrual irregularitiesHand tremor
Goiter (visibly enlarged thyroid) may be presentDiarrhea
High Blood PressureHair loss
Weight lossWeakness
MEDICAL TESTING
Abnormal thyroid hormone levels can cause a person to have sub-optimal metabolism, with protein synthesis and bodyfat use among the essential functions exhibiting degraded performance. The symptoms of abnormal thyroid function can indicate a problem, but only a blood test will confirm malfunction.

Because I work in the nuclear industry, my company provides an annual blood test with a thyroid panel. Radioactive iodine is a common fission product produced by nuclear power and it can damage the thyroid if ingested. For the protection of the workforce, we get tested annually for thyroid function.

A thyroid hormone panel, as part of a blood test, provides diagnostic information on the function of the gland.

THYROID HORMONE BLOOD TESTS OFTEN INCLUDE THE FOLLOWING ASSESSMENTS (1)
Free Thyroxine Index (FTI or FT4)

Free thyroxine (T4) can be measured directly (FT4) or calculated (FTI). The FTI is a measure of the amount of T4 in relation to the amount of thyroxine-binding globulin present.

The FTI is calculated from the T4 and T3 uptake, or T3U, values. The FTI value can indicate when an abnormal level of thyroxin-binding globulin in the blood causes an abnormal level of T4. Typical levels range from 0.7-1.9 ng/dl

Triiodothyronine (T3)

T3 has a greater effect on metabolism than T4, even though T3 is normally present in significantly lower amounts than T4. The total amount of T3 in the blood or the amount of free T3 (FT3) can be measured.

Normally, less than 1% of the T3 is free. Typical levels range from 40-220 ng/dl or 0.6-3.4 nmol/L.

Triiodothyronine Uptake (T3U)

The T3U test is an indirect measurement of the amount of the protein (thyroxine-binding globulin) that can bind to T3 and T4. The results of this test are useful only when evaluated along with other thyroid function tests.

Total Thyroxine (T4)

Most of the T4 in blood is attached to a protein (called thyroxine-binding globulin). Less than 1% of the T4 is unattached. A total T4 blood test measures both bound and free thyroxine.

Free thyroxine affects tissue function in the body, but bound thyroxine does not. And because most T4 is bound, this test is a far better indicator of the thyroid status. Typical levels range from 4.6-12 ug/dl or 51-154 nmol/L.

Thyroid Stimulating Hormone (TSH)

The TSH value provides an indication of how well the feedback mechanism and thyroid are functioning. Normal values are from 0.4 to 4.0 mIU/L for those with no symptoms of an under- or over-active thyroid.

Values below 0.4 are considered hyperthyroid, values 4.0 and slightly higher are considered sub clinical hypothyroid and values generally above 10 indicate full hypothyroid conditions.

CONCLUSION
When getting any tests performed, you should have some background knowledge to better understand the results. Most doctors are very good, but they are not infallible. Why do you think second opinions are often recommended?

You should have the basic knowledge to interpret test results. With the knowledge you can then challenge your medical professional for the most accurate assessment, and together, formulate a plan to optimize your health and bodybuilding and athletic progress.
 
Before anyone blasts me saying “use the search tab asshole” I have spent about an hour trying to find what I could on T3 or even T4. Found a little on T3 with clen but I figured it wouldn’t hurt to start a fresh thread.

I made a last minute decision to buy some T3 to throw in with my blast. I decided against combining it with clen because I already sweat like a whore as it is. Anyhow my question is: how can I run T3 without clen to cut without sacrificing muscle? I’m running test mast and var, so I already got kind of a “cutting cycle” going but I figured this would be the icing on the cake.

Now I’m NOT using T3 as an excuse to not diet. My diet and cardio are there, so my plan was to run it at a relatively low dose so that I’m not relying on it but also so that I don’t have to worry about burning away my precious muscle. I was thinking of just going 50mcg for 6 weeks but I’d like to hear everyone’s opinions.
T3 does not discriminate between the different sources being utilized for energy such as protein, carbohydrates, and fats . Therefore, it is important to understand if T3 is being utilized without AAS/SARMS and/or PEPTIDES beyond a certain dose,(let say 50mcg) muscle loss can and will occur.
It is recommended to start at a lower dose say 25mcg and work up to 50mcg.
See what others have to say... hope this can help.
 
NUTRITIONAL SUPPORT
Nutritional support is always a good place to start when trying to improve your health. You may be able to improve the function of your thyroid through some diet modifications. One of the earliest modifications most people use without thinking is iodized salt.

Iodized salt was first manufactured in 1924 to prevent a prevalent health problem of the time period, goiters. The tradition of iodizing salt continues to this day and provides most people with an adequate source of iodine for thyroid hormone production.

In the United States, iodized salt contains 1 part in 10,000 iodide, in the form of potassium iodine.

The basic material required for making thyroid hormone can be determined by how your body makes the hormone. The two essential items needed are iodine and the amino acid, tyrosine.

In a process known as the iodination of tyrosine, an iodine atom binds with tyrosine to form monoiodotyrosine. The addition of another iodine atom forms diodotyrosine. Finally, two diodotyrosine molecules combine to form thyroxine (T4).

With today's emphasis on healthy diets, many individuals now restrict their salt, and in-turn, iodine intake. But with the healthier diet, many of the food sources that are particularly useful for maintaining thyroid health are probably consumed.

This healthy diet should include seaweed, kelp, garlic, radishes, seafood, watercress, egg yolks, and mushrooms.

L-Tyrosine, the other part of the hormone, is a non-essential amino acid; your body makes it from phenylalanine. The L-form is the isomer found in food, and is generally the form used in our bodies.

Tyrosine is found in a wide variety of foods with fish, poultry, almonds, avocados, bananas, and most dairy products being good sources. Essential fatty acids are another food item that is recommended for improved thyroid performance.

Even if you increase your intake of these building blocks for thyroid hormone, its not automatic that more will be produced and released. Your body is pretty smart, and will only make enough thyroid hormone to fulfill use and storage demands. In addition, when dieting, your body will slow its release of thyroid hormone to avoid starvation.

Several food items have micronutrients that have been found to degrade thyroid function. It has been suggested in the literature that raw cabbage, peanuts, soybeans, turnips, mustard, cassava root, and millet be avoided or consumed in limited quantities. Cooked versions of these foods are usually fine.

Many of these foods contain isoflavones, chemicals that act as hormones once consumed. Isoflavones have been known to inhibit peroxidase, which is essential in making T3 and T4. Additionally, data has linked some isoflavones to goiter and cancer development in animals1.

In addition to food items, some environmental factors should also be avoided. Fluoride and mercury exposure should be minimized. You can find these elements in most tap water systems, and a home water filtration system is beneficial in removing these elements.

Additionally, monitor the amount of seafood consumed to minimize potential mercury exposure from this source.

MEDICATION
Many bodybuilders take thyroid hormone in hopes of increasing their metabolism and reducing their bodyfat percentage for a contest. It is good in theory and generally harmless over a short duration, but in order to lessen the likelihood of muscle catabolism, a blood test in conjunction with use is needed.

A blood test will tell you if you are taking excess thyroid hormone and are hyperthyroid - an undesirable, catabolic condition.

There are three types of medication used to boost circulating thyroid hormone:

T4
COMMON NAMES
Synthroid, Levoxyl, Unithroid, Levothroid, and Euthyrox

T3
COMMON NAMES
Cytomel, Cynomel, Cyronine, Cytomel Tabs, Euthroid, Linomel, Liothyronin, Neo-Tiroimade, Ro-Thyronine, T3, Tertroxin, Thybon, Ti-Tre, Tiromel, Tironina, and Trijodthyronin.

POWDERED THYROID
COMMON NAMES
Armour Thyroid, S-P-T, Thyrar, Thyroid Strong (animal thyroid gland with a set T4/T3 mix).

Based on their experience, physicians generally prescribe either T4 or Powdered Thyroid, but generally not both. Some will prescribe T4 and T3 simultaneously. When a physician prescribes both T3 and T4, the type of abnormal thyroid condition being treated usually dictates it.

Bodybuilders prefer the active hormone, T3, when preparing for a contest because it is the more potent hormone.

TAKING T4
T4 is the most often used medication for hypothyroid conditions. Most of the mainstream physicians and endocrinologist prescribe T4. Prescribing T4 makes establishing and maintaining a proper dosing easier, and it's a rare condition when your body cannot convert T4 to T3 at the cellular level.

However, when there is difficulty converting T4 to T3, either T3 must be added to the therapy schedule or Powdered Thyroid must be prescribed. Additionally, most alternative medicine thyroid doctors believe that the powdered is a more natural way to treat thyroid disease.

When prescribed, T4 is a once a day medication. Most people take it first thing in the morning on an empty stomach. There is an option to take it sublingually to get better absorption.

To do this, the T4 tablet can be placed under the tongue and allowed to dissolve and be absorbed at a slower pace. Sublingual absorption avoids complications with digestion.

INTERACTIONS OF T4
Be aware that when and how you take medication does influence its effectiveness. For example, thyroid medication should not be taken with calcium or iron. Both of these minerals bind with thyroid hormone and make it unavailable for your body's use.

Thus, you should avoid milk products two hours before and after taking thyroid medication. There are also some medications that alter T4 levels.

Aspirin, danazol and propanolol have been shown to increase T4 levels and furosemide, methadone, lithium, aluminum-containing antacids, colestipol, and rifampicin have been shown to decrease T4 levels.

There are also some unique interactions. Progesterone and estrogen are substances that can bind with T4, but also tend to increase T3 levels. Anabolic steroids tend to decrease thyroid hormone levels. Finally, thyroid hormone can suppress insulin, an important consideration for diabetics and bodybuilders using insulin.

Finally, if diagnosed with hypothyroidism, you will be taking medication for the rest of your life.

TAKING T3
Cytomel (T3) is rarely prescribed on its own to address thyroid problems; it is usually prescribed with T4. In the past, cytomel was a scheduled treatment for obesity; however, an increase in heart complications and cardiac stress forced withdrawal of T3 for that application.

T3 works at the cellular level by increasing the metabolism of protein, carbohydrates, and fats, as well as increasing heart rate and blood flow. T3 is an excellent fat burner since your metabolism is greatly increased while using it.

This benefits bodybuilders in that they can afford to be on a higher calorie pre-contest diet since they'll burn excess calories with a higher metabolic rate. But remember, T3 is catabolic (you can potentially lose significant muscle mass) and long-term use can decrease bone density as well.

Cytomel is best taken several times a day. Levels of T3 will peak roughly 2 hours after ingestion and will be depleted within 4 hours. To optimize the availability of T3 and maintenance of T3 levels throughout the day, multi-dosing is a recommended course of action.

Multi-dosing avoids having total dependence on your body converting T4 to T3.

SELF MEDICATION
For those self-medicating, start with a low dosage, about 12.5 or 25 mcgs. per day and increase by half or one tab per day every 5th or 6th day. Ensure that you don't go over 100 mcgs. per day at the very most and use multi-dosing throughout the day.

You should also ramp down when ending a cycle of T3 to help recover thyroid function. Consider some form of post cycle therapy (PCT) specific for the thyroid that includes dietary measures, as suggested earlier, and supplements like forskolin and gugglesterones.

Although T3 is not a steroid, there is some anecdotal evidence that T3 does enhance steroid use. This may be possible because of the increased amount of protein metabolism while using T3.

You will often read of bodybuilders stacking T3 with an anabolic steroid cycle. Additionally, clenbuterol is another product that is often stacked with T3 to form a very effective, pre-contest fat-loss regime.

Most bodybuilders have used this drug safely and effectively. There are stories of people having problems with the thyroid gland being "shut down" after T3 usage. From examining the literature, it appears that recovery is a more probable event, if there isn't a genetic predisposition for thyroid disease.

FAMILY HISTORY A FACTOR
Consider your family history before doing a T3 cycle. If diabetes or thyroid disease runs in your family, a T3 cycle is not recommended. Also remember that roughly 10% of the public is susceptible to thyroid disease. You may be one of the unlucky ones, consider your odds.

If you do self-medicate, don't jump into big doses right off the bat. Ramp you dosages in small increments both on the way up and when coming down. Watch for symptoms and side effects that can include tremors in the hands, heart palpitations, diarrhea, significant weight loss, nausea, very high perspiration (more than normal perspiration is expected), and headaches.

Cut back on your dosage immediately to reduce or eliminate these side effects. Keep your protein intake high and seek medical attention if you don't feel right while on T3 or after your self-medication.

POWDERED THYROID
One of the more popular and known powdered thyroid products is Armour thyroid. It is derived from desiccated pork thyroid glands. Armour Thyroid is a prescription medicine.

The manufacturing process ensures there is a consistently potent medication from tablet to tablet and lot to lot. Analytical tests measure actual T4 and T3 activity to ensure this consistency.

Different lots of thyroid powder are mixed together and analyzed to achieve the desired ratio of T4 to T3 in each tablet. Armour Thyroid's current ratio of T4 to T3 is 4.22:1 (4.22 parts of T4 to one part of T3).

There are powdered thyroid supplements available. Some of these supplements are thyroid gland specific; others are a mix of powdered glands. The drawback with these supplements are that they have unknown quantities of hormone.

However, they do provide an alternative to consider for improved thyroid function or PCT.

HYPERTHYROIDISM TREATMENT
There is not much call or interest in the bodybuilding community to treat a condition that is beneficial for the sport. However, for long-term health, hyperthyroidism does need to be treated, particularly if goiters are developed.

There are four common methods of treating hyperthyroid: Anti-thyroid drugs, Radioactive Iodine, Beta-blockers and surgery2. A short discussion of these methods follows.

ANTI-THYROID DRUGS
The two leading anti-thyroid drugs are methimazole and propylthiouracil, trade name Tapzaol and PTU. These drugs work by blocking the thyroid gland's ability to make new hormone. Additionally, they do not cause permanent damage to the gland. However, they are not a permanent solution to hyperthyroidism.

RADIOACTIVE IODINE
Radioactive Iodine is another way to treat hyperthyroidism. Radioactive iodine is taken orally, and some uptake of the radioactive iodine by the thyroid gland will occur.

The radioactive iodine will then damage the cells that have taken it up and hopefully reduce the size of any thyroid nodules or goiter, and reduce the level of hormone in the blood stream.

The radioactive iodine remains effective in the body for a couple of months before being eliminated. One or several treatments with radioactive iodine can reduce thyroid function to a point of hypothyroidism. If the hypothyroidism condition continues, a treatment schedule for that condition will be required.

BETA-BLOCKERS
Beta adrenergic blocking agents, or beta-blockers for short, block the action of T3 in your body. These drugs include propranolol, atenolol, metoprolol and nadolol.

These drugs do not change the level of thyroid hormone in your bloodstream but will slow your heart rate, reduce palpitations and shakes, and calm the nervousness associated with hyperthyroid conditions. Like the anti-thyroid drugs, beta-blockers are not a permanent solution.

SURGERY
Surgery is a permanent solution to hyperthyroidism. A surgical procedure is used to remove most or all of the thyroid, thus removing the source of the problem. Hypothyroidism will develop and the scheduled treatment for hypothyroidism would be followed.

REMAINING ISSUES
DEIODINASE DECLINE
I made reference to the body being pretty smart and into self-preservation. Part of that self preservation is the decline in deiodinase when carbohydrates are restricted, i.e.; the body thinks it is starving.

Deiodinase is vital in converting T4 to T3, thus, metabolism will slow and less calories expended when carbohydrates are restricted. There are conflicting data when a ketogenic diet is followed3. However, when following a balanced diet with restricted carbohydrates, expect some decrease in metabolism.

Rebounding is another topic often discussed with T3 usage. After administration of a T3 cycle, many individuals find themselves feeling sluggish, with minimal energy.

This is to be expected, as natural thyroid hormone production needs to be ramped back up from lower production levels. This is one of the reasons for ramping down T3 use at the end of a cycle.

REBOUND TIME
Additionally, if you are susceptible to thyroid disease, you can expect a longer rebound to normal thyroid function. Consider some of the powdered thyroid supplements or thyroid support supplements discussed below.

The body temperature test is often heard with thyroid health. The test is performed over several days to see a trend4. The test involves taking one's body temperature every day upon waking, before getting out of bed.

An underarm temperature provides a good indicator. Lower than average temperatures can indicate slow basal metabolism, and poor thyroid performance. The body temperature test is not infallible, but it does provide another tool in assessing thyroid performance and could be included in your self-assessment, T3 cycle monitoring or discussions with a physician.

SUPPLEMENTATION
Supplementation specifically for thyroid support is another issue. Much has been written and hyped about guggulsterones and forskolin. The literature states stimulating thyroid production for both products, however, the direct mechanism(s) of action has not been determined.

Several weight loss supplements use either or both products.

Personally, I believe that they contribute only slightly to improved thyroid performance and that the standard thyroid hormone feedback mechanism negates most of the benefits that may be derived. However, they may have a good role in thyroid gland function recovery after a T3 cycle.

Use of growth hormone (GH) and T3 simultaneously must also be considered. The normal increase in nitrogen retention associated with GH use is eliminated when T3 levels increase.

This effect has been attributed to T3 increasing levels of insulin like growth factor binding protein, thus reducing the bioavailability of igf-1(5). Growth hormone already has a fat burning quality to it, so it seems more cost effective not to use T3 concurrently with GH.

BUTTERFLY EFFECT
I hope these articles help you in your metamorphosis. The intent was to increase your awareness of the thyroid gland's role in changing your appearance. Having a dysfunctional thyroid gland will hamper your transformation efforts, and lead to sub-optimal health.

You now have more information to identify a potential cause of problems, and set a course of action to correct it. Remember that a blood test will provide vital information, and in conjunction with the simple body temperature test, can be a starting point for action.

You can change your appearance and shape, just like a butterfly, if you take care of the butterfly inside you. See you on the beach!
 
These articles are literally the first thing pops up google when you type it in the search button
 
It is recommended to start at a lower dose say 25mcg and work up to 50mcg.
See what others have to say... hope this can help.
Perfect. This is the kind of response I was hoping for. I definitely wanna run a low-moderate dose so I’ll definitely start at 25. Every source I googled was basically assholes saying 50 was the minimum and go for 100. This is why I come to this forum for my info. But again I’m not using this to make up for a shitty diet, so 25 would probably be a good starter dose.

would you recommend 6 weeks? Like say 25/25/50/50/50/25?
 
Last edited:
Perfect. This is the kind of response I was hoping for. I definitely wanna run a low-moderate dose so I’ll definitely start at 25. Every source I googled was basically assholes saying 50 was the minimum and go for 100. This is why I come to this forum for my info. But again I’m not using this to make up for a shitty diet, so 25 would probably be a good starter dose.

would you recommend 6 weeks? Like say 25/25/50/50/50/25?

Well as long you get the response you want to hear you’re g2g chief
 
Thank you so much for copying and pasting 3 pages of WebMD. Changed my life.

I was just showing you how to research on google bro. Type T3 cycles in and guess what you get.... I’ll give you hint. It’s exactly the answer your looking for
 
SB Labs
I was just showing you how to research on google bro. Type T3 cycles in and guess what you get.... I’ll give you hint. It’s exactly the answer your looking for
You think I haven’t read about 20 different cycles from the bowels of google? There’s a reason I made the post on this forum. There’s a ton of guys that know their shit. Any fucking moron can google “t3 cYcLez” and get 20 different responses from assholes like you that most likely haven’t ever touched the substance. You’re not gonna last long here, kid. Kindly fuck off to make room for some intellectual discussion. You already cluttered up a whole fucking page of this thread.
 
You think I haven’t read about 20 different cycles from the bowels of google? There’s a reason I made the post on this forum. There’s a ton of guys that know their shit. Any fucking moron can google “t3 cYcLez” and get 20 different responses from assholes like you that most likely haven’t ever touched the substance. You’re not gonna last long here, kid. Kindly fuck off to make room for some intellectual discussion. You already cluttered up a whole fucking page of this thread.

You were unaware if you could run T3 with or without clen bro. I’m not sure you should be the judge of what will last and won’t last. That one statement tells me you know dick about clen or T3. But if you want to ask other people and gather your knowledge off the back of people who actually researched it go ahead bro... it’s the American way. Like I said OP best of luck on that cycle
 
You were unaware if you could run T3 with or without clen bro. I’m not sure you should be the judge of what will last and won’t last. That one statement tells me you know dick about clen or T3. But if you want to ask other people and gather your knowledge off the back of people who actually researched it go ahead bro... it’s the American way. Like I said OP best of luck on that cycle
I was perfectly aware that you could run it without clen 🤦🏻*♂️ I said I didnt want to run it with clen. Theres a thread about T3 with clen active right now, but I don’t want a layout for that. I want to know how others ran or would T3 without it.

I can’t believe I’m arguing with someone with 8 posts and negative reputation. I’m done feeding the troll, though.
 
I was perfectly aware that you could run it without clen * I said I didnt want to run it with clen. Theres a thread about T3 with clen active right now, but I don’t want a layout for that. I want to know how others ran or would T3 without it.

I can’t believe I’m arguing with someone with 8 posts and negative reputation. I’m done feeding the troll, though.

May only have 8 post but I’ve ran T3 and clen plenty. I wouldn’t assume the number of post equates experience.
 
From personal experience 50mcg would be the most ideal more you do more flatness as it burns through glycogen like crazy
You’ll get increased protein breakdown turnover which could help recovery muscle gain if protein is high enough it also improves insulin sensitivity

id definitely keep protein high 450g at least for the effects mentioned above
 
May only have 8 post but I’ve ran T3 and clen plenty. I wouldn’t assume the number of post equates experience.

In your original post ask how to run T3 without clen to cut without sacrificing muscle. If your running gear you wouldn’t sacrifice muscle with T3, regardless of clen because clen isnt going to preserve muscle. Oh btw T3 will make sweat like a whore also. So good idea on forgoing the clen so you wouldn’t sweat even worse.

Also 25 mcgs is hardly more than your body’s own production. So other than just seeing if you handle it ok, it’s basically a therapeutic dose. As for tapering down the science is unproven whether that’s even necessary. I can tell you from my own blood testing that my body was back to normal less than 10 days without tapering down.

This is my third account on here. Been a member since 2014. Of course you’re right, I might not last to long tho...
 
In your original post ask how to run T3 without clen to cut without sacrificing muscle. If your running gear you wouldn’t sacrifice muscle with T3, regardless of clen because clen isnt going to preserve muscle. Oh btw T3 will make sweat like a whore also. So good idea on forgoing the clen so you wouldn’t sweat even worse.

Also 25 mcgs is hardly more than your body’s own production. So other than just seeing if you handle it ok, it’s basically a therapeutic dose. As for tapering down the science is unproven whether that’s even necessary. I can tell you from my own blood testing that my body was back to normal less than 10 days without tapering down.

This is my third account on here. Been a member since 2014. Of course you’re right, I might not last to long tho...

Just wanted to clarify that your body doesn’t produce T3, it converts it from T4. By adding T3 your body stops the conversion T4 to T3 (or at the very least slows it down) and turns it’s attention on converting T3 to T2. Ncbi has a few studies on T3 and T4 combination therapies and ton on T4 studies
 
Well I’ll be damned. After 3/4 of a page of bullshit, the stuff that I have written in my old notebook from A&P courses and you finally contributed something valuable to the topic. Lets keep that energy rolling.

I figured T3 would make me sweat too, which is more than half the reason I’m choosing to run it without clen. I’ve heard its the lesser of the two miseries, but I guess we’ll see in a few weeks. I’m actually glad you said about the tapering at the end being a waste of time. So you just dropped off at your final dose, assuming it was somewhere between 75-100mcg?
 
Well I’ll be damned. After 3/4 of a page of bullshit, the stuff that I have written in my old notebook from A&P courses and you finally contributed something valuable to the topic. Lets keep that energy rolling.

I figured T3 would make me sweat too, which is more than half the reason I’m choosing to run it without clen. I’ve heard its the lesser of the two miseries, but I guess we’ll see in a few weeks. I’m actually glad you said about the tapering at the end being a waste of time. So you just dropped off at your final dose, assuming it was somewhere between 75-100mcg?

I don’t typically run it at 100mcgs. Not because of side effects but more because I haven’t noticed any benefits over 75mcgs. Typically I run it with gh tren and clen. Moderate doses of T3 and Clen (I do get side effect from clen now). I’m not saying that there isn’t a benefit to tapering off. I just know that my test show that my own system had bounced back in just under 10 days, at least the bloodwork said so. I’ve also seen Ncbi studies with people who were on thyroid supplementation for long periods of time for depression and bounced back without any damage to their thyroid. Which is most people’s arguments that you shouldn’t mess with your thyroid because it won’t bounce back. I’ve said it many times on this and other forums that your thyroid is not as easily damaged as lot of people suggest.

I would personally keep your dosage around 50-75mcgs and if it was me I wouldn’t taper off, just let your own system rebound. Follow up with bloodwork of course.
 
Alright cool that sounds pretty solid to me. Thanks.

Would love to hear from more people as well and what experiences they’ve had with it. I’m getting pretty pumped for the following weeks. Kind of sucks I wasn’t able to be doing this in the spring or early summer, but I’ll take it now.
 
SB Labs
Alright cool that sounds pretty solid to me. Thanks.

Would love to hear from more people as well and what experiences they’ve had with it. I’m getting pretty pumped for the following weeks. Kind of sucks I wasn’t able to be doing this in the spring or early summer, but I’ll take it now.

So there is definitely one study that shows that muscle can be preserved by clen. I’ve always felt that it is anabolic though I didn’t think it was directly anabolic just by down river effect. Although it’s classified as a anabolic by WADA. But this study definitely shows it to also preserve muscle tissue to some effect. Although the dosage seems to be extremely high and it’s effects are dose dependent.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3651181/
 
I can say this when I run 50mcg/day I can tell the difference wk by wk it works pretty damn good with a cut blend 300mg/ml. I just finished up a cut blend with t3 and did a noticeable recomp, myself I'd have to say yes it works great but ill say at 70-100mcg day I feel like it hurt my strength like i was losing steam every wk a lil more so I lowered the dose down to just 50mcg-70mcg/day worked for me better that way.
 
I can say this when I run 50mcg/day I can tell the difference wk by wk it works pretty damn good with a cut blend 300mg/ml. I just finished up a cut blend with t3 and did a noticeable recomp, myself I'd have to say yes it works great but ill say at 70-100mcg day I feel like it hurt my strength like i was losing steam every wk a lil more so I lowered the dose down to just 50mcg-70mcg/day worked for me better that way.
So you just start out at 50? Dont even fuck around under that? And how many weeks did you do that?
 
4wks on then 4 wks off..the 4wks off id do 50mcg clen day 4wks on...then 4wks off switch back.. ive done both together at 4wks at a time also.

Most people would say clen for two weeks on and two weeks off, unless you’re going to constantly increase dose because of tolerance and beta-receptor down-regulation. But either way you won’t build a tolerance to T3 so no need to cycle it at all, unless you just want to for shits & giggles
 
i actually did think up one more question: would you guys prefer doing the T3 at the beginning, middle or end of a normal AAS cycle? I seem to be getting mixed answers the more I look. I was initially thinking toword the end when gains are starting to fizzle out, but I could also see using it beginning/middle to kind of kickstart everything. And I’m running a 12 wk long esters cycle
 
i actually did think up one more question: would you guys prefer doing the T3 at the beginning, middle or end of a normal AAS cycle? I seem to be getting mixed answers the more I look. I was initially thinking toword the end when gains are starting to fizzle out, but I could also see using it beginning/middle to kind of kickstart everything. And I’m running a 12 wk long esters cycle

Wait. Are you cutting or bulking? I thought you were cutting. If so gains aren’t really going to be a consideration. If your goal is a recomp or cutting I would run it throughout the cycle. If you are bulking but wanting to put on lean weight, I would run T4 not T3.
 
I run t3,clen thru out the whole process..ive heard competitors say t3 and/or clen at the end of the cycle to get the most of the final results like winny at the end to be the cherry on top...I want my cherry the whole time I guess
 
i actually did think up one more question: would you guys prefer doing the T3 at the beginning, middle or end of a normal AAS cycle? I seem to be getting mixed answers the more I look. I was initially thinking toword the end when gains are starting to fizzle out, but I could also see using it beginning/middle to kind of kickstart everything. And I’m running a 12 wk long esters cycle
Just take it throughout your whole fat loss phase until you get as lean as desired.
Do you have any experience with t3?
I’ve never had gains start to fizzle out on a cycle as long I was progressively doing everything I was supposed to do. Not sure what t3 would have to do with that seeing as how it’s not an aas.
 

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