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Questions on Natural vs. Supplement Use

Natural Woman

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SB Labs
Hello ASFers!

I am just starting to research steroid use and would greatly appreciate anyone who will take the time to answer any or all of the questions I have so far.

1. I have read that steroids can help with not only muscle growth but also with losing stored fat more quickly. This seems like it would be of particular interest to women, but I don't see as many women as I thought I would in here! Is this more a guy's thing?

2. What was it that made you decide to use AS supplements to go beyond your body's natural limits? Thus far, I am still leaning toward seeing what my body can achieve naturally. I am afraid to introduce any AS supplements.

3. I imagine you researched before first trying. I can find all kinds of substantiated negative info. Where can I please find substantiated positive info that shows which supplements are safe to use and have the least harmful side effects?

4. And maybe this will be irrelevant when people answer the above question, but with all of the proven negative side effects, how did you decide to go ahead and weigh your chances and take the plunge? And once you did, what are the positives that keep you continuing? Did you experience any negatives?

Thank you so much!

NW :)
 
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1. This particular forum is very bro-y (and can get a bit homophobic and misogynistic), so probably women who are looking for an anabolics forum to join pass on this one because of the culture here. You might find more women on the other anabolic forums. But anabolics, in general, are used by more men than women because women seem to think that just a little testosterone will suddenly make them bigger than Arnold, not understanding that it takes a LOT of cycles and great nutrition and dedicated workouts.

2. I spent over ten years in the gym 5-6 days a week, dedicated, and could never get over my plateau no matter which new workouts or exercises I tried. I'd always been curious about anabolics but was scare of all the propaganda, so stayed away. But a bodybuilder friend of mine convinced me I was never going to get past my plateau naturally, so I finally did my first cycle a couple years ago. If you haven't reached any such plateau, it's probably best to stay away from AAS for now since it seems like you're really not wanting to anyway.

3. I watched a few documentaries (well, one was just a National Geographic hour long thing or something) and they all had doctors in them basically saying: "Yeah, they can give you acne, possibly make you bald quicker, but that's about it, all the rest of the propaganda is bs that hasn't been proven to be true." As for where to find that info? Here and elsewhere, you'll have to do your own research, I can't remember where I saw those and where exactly I found the articles.

4. There are definitely side effect, depending on which particular "supplement" it is and they all affect people differently. I get almost no acne, but my buddy gets REALLY bad acne, and we're using the exact same stuff. I get really bad night sweats on tren (and insomnia) and he doesn't experience any of that at all. It affects everyone differently. But I can live with those side effects.
 
first thing first.
on behalf of PuritySourceLabs and MileHighKratom i would like to welcome you to ASF. This forum has many well known and knowledgeable vets HERE. Knowledge is power, so please read up on the stickies in the anabolic section.
you can learn a ton from the stickies alone.

Can you tell us a little about yourself.
stats.
age
height
weight
how often you train, style of training.
cardio, how often? what type?
Do you use or take supplement?

Sorry for all the questions, but you have to give a little info to get the proper help. thanks
 
@jackedgamer

Hey Jacked! Thank you for writing.

I have been looking around here and there are some cool gals. But yeah, lots of 'bros'! That's ok. :)

I've heard about the plateau a lot. So the main goal is to get bigger? And some people want to see how big they can get on their own and some want to see how big they can get with help? I am not anywhere near a plateau. I haven't even gotten serious about my diet. Having a hard time giving up the wine! And chocolate.

It seems like most everyone on here is very studious and careful about what they take. Educated and professional about it.

Thanks for the doc info. I just watched Bigger Stronger Faster. Very interesting. It doesn't make sense to me that anabolics are actually illegal. Like you mentioned, they have side effects that happen to some and not to others. Just like any medication. So it should be up to user discretion. Like smoking. Or drinking. I do think there should be age limits, like with alcohol and smoking. But illegal, no.

Anyway, thanks again for taking the time.

NW
 
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Hi MD24,

You're right! I see I didn't post properly. Thank you.

I'm 51, 5'6", 130.

I am in a slump right now of no regular schedule. It's depressing. I've been going to the gym a few times a week, might do a bunch of leg stuff, always do cardio (treadmill or elliptical or racquetball or zumba). Might do some arms. I haven't had a flat, non-fat stomach in many, many years. And my butt is lower and mushier than it used to be. LOL but not really. Oh and also for cardio I have been running outside, I love that. Especially trail running. Just started last month. I committed to putting 1000 miles under my feet this year! Did 100 in Jan.

I am taking vitamins. And I am now on a low-dose BP med! :( I want to get off of that and just be as healthy as I can be. And I want to firm up and see some definition on this old bod again!

Thanks for the info about the stickies, I have started looking.



first thing first.
on behalf of PuritySourceLabs and MileHighKratom i would like to welcome you to ASF. This forum has many well known and knowledgeable vets HERE. Knowledge is power, so please read up on the stickies in the anabolic section.
you can learn a ton from the stickies alone.

Can you tell us a little about yourself.
stats.
age
height
weight
how often you train, style of training.
cardio, how often? what type?
Do you use or take supplement?

Sorry for all the questions, but you have to give a little info to get the proper help. thanks
 
Get more serious about your diet.. AAS will not do anything for losing weight with out diet that is meant to lose weight..

AAS are better at preserving muscle while eating at a caloric deficit..

If you want weight loss Drugs.. you want Clen, T3, DNP or ECA stack.
 
Thank you, Skinnyguy. I definitely want to do the work! Not looking for magic. I appreciate your thoughts on something that will help alongside a regular workout schedule.

Get more serious about your diet.. AAS will not do anything for losing weight with out diet that is meant to lose weight..

AAS are better at preserving muscle while eating at a caloric deficit..

If you want weight loss Drugs.. you want Clen, T3, DNP or ECA stack.
 
They do nothing for losing weight. Clean the diet up. Diet played the biggest role. They do however help maintain and did harden my muscles while eating a low calorie diet.... I'm off cycle right now. Doing another in April. All I use is Anavar.
 
SB Labs
Hey, Gymgirl. Thanks for your thoughts. Yes, I am going to focus on diet first, starting with a small goal of no sweets, alcohol or bread/pasta for 14 days. Starting today! 13 more to go. I recall seeing that you take care with your diet, so I'll go back and get some ideas for good clean eats! I think you posted on the Diet and Nutrition board? And I will look into Anavar. Still a little leary, as a complete noob to this world. How did you decide to first start with supplements?

They do nothing for losing weight. Clean the diet up. Diet played the biggest role. They do however help maintain and did harden my muscles while eating a low calorie diet.... I'm off cycle right now. Doing another in April. All I use is Anavar.
 
Hi Natural.

Welcome to ASF ! Skinny and Gym Girl are right, AAS wont do a whole lot as far as losing any weight. They WILL help you add/retain muscle with a good diet and lifting program. We used to have a womens section here for a bit but I sure cant find it :( Here is a link to the BEST article I have ever found. Sassy wrote it up for the IMF forum and it is excellent. http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/t...f-you-re-female-or-helping-a-female-READ-THIS
Am wondering as well, you say your feeling in a "slump" ? Have you had any recent bloodwork ? And have you had "the change" yet ? Thats what sent me in this direction. I was busting my ASS in the gym and no longer building any muscle at all ( I had the change in my early 40's) I felt less worried about trying AAS because the reproductive issues just weren't an issue any more ;) And honestly, 5'6 and 130 ???? you don't need to lose weight, maybe just build some muscle. I'm 5'6 and am 30lbs heavier than you :)
If you do decide to try any anabolics, stay away from the wine while your on, orals are ROUGH on the liver :winkfinger:
 
Hey, Gymgirl. Thanks for your thoughts. Yes, I am going to focus on diet first, starting with a small goal of no sweets, alcohol or bread/pasta for 14 days. Starting today! 13 more to go. I recall seeing that you take care with your diet, so I'll go back and get some ideas for good clean eats! I think you posted on the Diet and Nutrition board? And I will look into Anavar. Still a little leary, as a complete noob to this world. How did you decide to first start with supplements?
YOU should post on the Diet and Nutrition section. Post up what you eat there, and your goals, and people will be more than happy to help you out.
 
You are in your 50s?

From one person to another that is also in their 50s I would take therapeutic doses of GH over AAS.

Just a thought. For me, at this point in my life nothing sheds fat better than GH.

Also good at maintaining muscle
 
Hey, Gymgirl. Thanks for your thoughts. Yes, I am going to focus on diet first, starting with a small goal of no sweets, alcohol or bread/pasta for 14 days. Starting today! 13 more to go. I recall seeing that you take care with your diet, so I'll go back and get some ideas for good clean eats! I think you posted on the Diet and Nutrition board? And I will look into Anavar. Still a little leary, as a complete noob to this world. How did you decide to first start with supplements?
a friend I had a lot of trust in started me and guided me. I was already extremity active and had my diet right. I did have to change my diet because like I said the Anavar had no affect on weight loss so I had some leaning out I wanted to do. The Anabar is good for helping define The muscles. But the diet is the biggest key in it all. At least that was my experience. consistency. You'll get there.
 
Hi Natural.

Welcome to ASF ! Skinny and Gym Girl are right, AAS wont do a whole lot as far as losing any weight. They WILL help you add/retain muscle with a good diet and lifting program. We used to have a womens section here for a bit but I sure cant find it :( Here is a link to the BEST article I have ever found. Sassy wrote it up for the IMF forum and it is excellent. http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/t...f-you-re-female-or-helping-a-female-READ-THIS
Am wondering as well, you say your feeling in a "slump" ? Have you had any recent bloodwork ? And have you had "the change" yet ? Thats what sent me in this direction. I was busting my ASS in the gym and no longer building any muscle at all ( I had the change in my early 40's) I felt less worried about trying AAS because the reproductive issues just weren't an issue any more ;) And honestly, 5'6 and 130 ???? you don't need to lose weight, maybe just build some muscle. I'm 5'6 and am 30lbs heavier than you :)
If you do decide to try any anabolics, stay away from the wine while your on, orals are ROUGH on the liver :winkfinger:

Mrsrobinson, thank you so much for your thoughts. That article is very informative and I like the term 'skinny-fat'. I'm soft now. I agree with you that I don't necessarily need to lose weight, but lose fat and gain muscle.

Yes, I am officially in mp, for about a year and a half now, and I must say I do LOVE not dealing with a monthly cycle. Hardly any symptoms at all, I'm pretty lucky so far. But I hate losing my body! My main concern now is BP, which is running a little high.

I have not had recent blood work, I see people mention that a lot on here. Does everyone just go to their regular doctor?

I am starting day 6 of clean eating, that is my first step. Going to post in Diet & Nutrition like malfeasance suggested. And I do want to have a happy liver. :)



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YOU should post on the Diet and Nutrition section. Post up what you eat there, and your goals, and people will be more than happy to help you out.

Hi malfeasance (interesting name choice), GREAT idea and have been keeping track since reading this and will, thanks!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
You are in your 50s?

From one person to another that is also in their 50s I would take therapeutic doses of GH over AAS.

Just a thought. For me, at this point in my life nothing sheds fat better than GH.

Also good at maintaining muscle

Hi Skip! Thanks for your thoughts. How did you figure out what a therapeutic dose is for you?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
a friend I had a lot of trust in started me and guided me. I was already extremity active and had my diet right. I did have to change my diet because like I said the Anavar had no affect on weight loss so I had some leaning out I wanted to do. The Anabar is good for helping define The muscles. But the diet is the biggest key in it all. At least that was my experience. consistency. You'll get there.

Thanks for the encouragement! I've started on the clean eating and will get back into regular gym time. I know those are the first steps.



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
Hi Skip! Thanks for your thoughts. How did you figure out what a therapeutic dose is for you?


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Without going into a ton of detail I would say 1.0ius-1.5ius of growth hormone three times a week.

You would need to get blood analysis for Insulin Growth Factor IGF to ensure you are taking the right amount growth hormone.

Thyroid hormone analysis is also needed as growth hormone will skew these values.

T4 thyroid hormone supplementation is almost always needed.

Based on your statements body fat seems to be your biggest concern and that is why I recommend growth hormone.

I would recommend you Google growth hormone and fat loss to make an educated decision.
 
SB Labs
Without going into a ton of detail I would say 1.0ius-1.5ius of growth hormone three times a week.

You would need to get blood analysis for Insulin Growth Factor IGF to ensure you are taking the right amount growth hormone.

Thyroid hormone analysis is also needed as growth hormone will skew these values.

T4 thyroid hormone supplementation is almost always needed.

Based on your statements body fat seems to be your biggest concern and that is why I recommend growth hormone.

I would recommend you Google growth hormone and fat loss to make an educated decision.

Thank you, Skip. It does help to have guidance in avenues to research.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
Good advices in this thread.

make a food log to keep tack of what your eating. When it comes to diet though I personally don't think there is one answer. Its takes a little to figure out what works for you long term. Some do low fats, some do low carbs.. I was discussing Calories burned vs consumed with the shadow the other day. or the "if it fits your macros" train of thought.. Just find something that works and is sustainable.. You might check out primal diet. I dont follow it very closely any more but I use a lot of the core ides regarding insulin or glucose spikes and whole foods... Unfortunately I refuse to give up some foods primal does not condone... Peanut butter, Processed milk, oats... And I cheat with bread on my cheat days.

I cant help it I love bread! Sour dough rounds, Dutch crunch, garlic knots, Pizza!
 
Hello ASFers!

I am just starting to research steroid use and would greatly appreciate anyone who will take the time to answer any or all of the questions I have so far.

1. I have read that steroids can help with not only muscle growth but also with losing stored fat more quickly. This seems like it would be of particular interest to women, but I don't see as many women as I thought I would in here! Is this more a guy's thing?

2. What was it that made you decide to use AS supplements to go beyond your body's natural limits? Thus far, I am still leaning toward seeing what my body can achieve naturally. I am afraid to introduce any AS supplements.

3. I imagine you researched before first trying. I can find all kinds of substantiated negative info. Where can I please find substantiated positive info that shows which supplements are safe to use and have the least harmful side effects?

4. And maybe this will be irrelevant when people answer the above question, but with all of the proven negative side effects, how did you decide to go ahead and weigh your chances and take the plunge? And once you did, what are the positives that keep you continuing? Did you experience any negatives?

Thank you so much!

NW :)
Welcome aboard Natural Woman. I find your opening post in this thread to be a refreshing change from the usual. Keep in mind that I am 55 yrs old, and didn't begin to use gear until I was 43 yrs old and since then I've only used about 5 different kinds, ( 4 being AAS's & 1 being GH). As you might or might not already know, there are at least a dozen or more types of gear, and some guys on here have experimented with all of them or practically all of them. Anyways, here's my 4 cents ( I'll try to give you some answers to the four questions you've asked in the same order in which you've asked them):

1. When it comes to Anabolic Androgenic Steroids, (AKA "AAS's") you would do well to always keep three things in mind whenever someone is giving you suggestions, advice, or merely sharing with you what has worked for them:

A. Everyone's body reacts differently to these compounds. And that goes for side effects as well as the intended or desirable effects. You might experience the same side effects as Joe Blow at the gym has, but not the same as Wendy Windbag has, and at the same time the desireable effects they experienced might not be the same for you either. You just don't know until these drugs are in your system for atleast 3 to 4 weeks. So while most guys will tell you that AAS's will never contribute to fat loss at all, you occassionally will find some people who will swear that they have helped them in that area. However I am by no means implying that gear use will or can take the place of a proper diet and hard exercise.

B. This is BIG.... one of the reasons that AAS use is much more of a "guy thang" is simply due to the fact that Anabolic ANDROGENIC Steroids ARE in fact ANDROGENS not Estrogens. All AAS's are derivatives or chemical deviations of the male sex hormone Testosterone. So I'm sure that most women are not going to be as interested in puting male hormones in their body just as most men wouldn't be interested in using female hormones such as Estrogen.

C. Because All AAS's are Androgens, they ALL have the potential to have a virilization/masculinizing effects on the female body. Some of those effects can be temporary, but some can be permanent. These virilization effects can include deepening of the voice pitch due to thickening of the vocal cords, (this one is probably more prone to being a permanent thing than some of the others) facial hair, body hair, and clitoral enlargement AKA "man in the boat" LOL, (another permanent effect when and if it occurs). However, some AAS's have much less of the Androgenic chemical structure and more of the Anabolic structure than others. Anavar is one of the least androgenic AAS's made, however it's also one of the most faked and one of the most expensive AAS's too. So Anavar is probably the most used by female BBers because of it's potential to cause masculinizing effects to the female anatomy being much lower than other AAS compounds such as Anadrol, Masteron, Dianabol, etc., etc., etc. however this doesn't mean that Anavar is without other types of side effects which can effect either gender ( I'll get into that later)....

2. For me personally, the factors which caused me to choose to use gear in the first place have to do with wanting a to be as physically fit as possible, and wanting to be able to out-perform many of my friends and team mates in sports such as football, baseball, softball, and track events too, ( ie. sprinting). I've always been a very althletic person and I am very convinced that weight trained athletes usually make the best athletes, and AAS's just take that a step further. But another reason was/is wanting to look good and to be strong and and well equipped as possible for physically demanding tasks at my work place as well as at home.

3. I'm afraid that I cannot be of much help to you on this one because it was so long ago that I began reading books and articles on AAS's that I cannot remember many of the sources. I remember one book being written by a doctor who claimed to have "hundreds" of steroid patients who were BBers and some being amatuer and professional athletes. But this book was written in the mid 80's when it was still legal for Physicians here in the USA to prescribe AAS's to their patients for the purpose for athletic performance enhancement (pre-1986). I believe his name was Bill Kerr. There was also another doc who's book on AAS's I read, but I forget his name. these books spoke of suggested dosages, AAS cycle durations and encouraged the use of blood work during the cycle.

4. This is a tough question for me to answer...hmmm....."proven negative side effects"?? Well through study and research I learned well before I ever touched any AAS's that most of the unwanted side effects can be avoided with either prudent and realistic dosages and cycle durations, and/or counter acting drugs, (such as "Anti-E" drugs like Nolvadex, Raloxiphene, etc, etc). I've met and spoke with numerous guys who didn't know anything about gear and just began using them without a clue as to what they were messing with. (BTW those "anti-E" or anti-Estrogen drugs I made mention of are only applicable to male BBers using AAS's. They're of no use nor are they needed by female BBers who choose to use AAS's).

I hope I've helped you in some way by answering these questions you've posted. Allow me to make mention of one more thing in case you aren't already aware of them: THE 7 MOST COMMON SIDE EFFECTS FROM AAS USE.....

A. Virilizing effects, (such as Male pattern baldness, deepening of voice pitch, increased facial hair and/or body hair, facial and body acne, increased aggression). Some of these aren't of concern when/if men experience them, but obviously would be when/if women would.

B. Increase in blood pressure, (some types of gear have a greater potential to cause this than others. Among the types which are more prone to cause this are Anadrol, & Dianabol). 10mg per day of Cialis is used by some male BBers to lower BP when gear use causes it to be elevated, but I'm not really sure how Cialis can effect women.

C. Liver damage. Most of the time the damage is reversable but it can be permanent, even in some causes to a point of life threatening. This is why blood work during an AAS cycle is so important, (and my hat is off to the veterans of this board for boldly making me realize that I should no longer overlook this fact as I once did). In general oral steroids tend to be more stressful to the liver than many injectable forms, however that doesn't mean you get a free pass with injectables either. There are items to use which to a certain extent can prevent or at least lessen the stress caused to the liver, (such as LIV-52 pills, NAC pills, and Milk Thistle pills).

D. Kidney damage. Here again, blood work is important for early detection.

E. This one is BIG for male BBers, but obviously not a concern for female BBers...Gynacomastia, (AKA "Bitch Tits") nipple growth caused by excessive aromatization that the male body does which actually converts some of the ingested Androgens (the AAS's) into female hormone in an effort to normalize the unnaturally high androgen levels in the blood. This aromatization process also can cause bloating, and contribute to elevated blood pressure. As i stated earlier, we have Anti-E's such as Nolvadex and Raloxifene to prevent breast tissue growth around the nipple areas, but also Aromatise Inhibitors such as Aromasin, Letrozole, and Arimidex. But as I also previously stated, none of this is of interest to the female BBers using AAS's.

F. Cholesterol elevation. (blood work blood work!!).

G. Erectile dysfunction for the male BBer, and possible increased sexual desire for the female BBer. Male BBers usually can avoid this by including Testosterone injections during the gear cycle and using HCG and then Clomid for the inital month after the gear cycle is ended.

The list above is not the only possible side effects from AAS use. Just the most common ones. Not everyone experiences all of them, nor even most of them. Like I've mentioned earlier, everyone's body reacts differently to AAS use. But just about everyone will experience at least one or two of the side effects listed above to one degree or the other. there is always a risk factor associated with AAS use for both female and male alike.

I also will add that as far as Growth Hormone use goes, some people experience joint pain, which can be mild, or severe. I was one of those who experienced severe joint pain to the point where it hindered my workouts quite a bit, so I had to halt the GH use. I was taking 4 IU's daily, so perhaps if stayed with 2 IU's per day or EOD that might not have happened. For me personally, I wouldn't want to mess with Thyroid hormones (AKA "T3" or "T4") and if I ever did, it wouldn't be for more than 2 weeks at a time with a long break afterwards. I wouldn't want to mess up my Thyroid output. It's not worth the risk IMO.

 
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FWIW, in case it matters to you: one small correction to my long post above, the book I read about gear use was written by a guy named Robert Kerr, (not Bill Kerr) who I believe was the Physician who was prescribing gear to many of the Olympic althletes such as Ben Johnson in the 80's ( I think it was around 1984) but I don't know if the book is still in print or not, nor do I remember it's exact title either.
 

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