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On TRT, First Cycle Considering Dbol

C

Chac

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SB Labs
Team,

I could use the expertise of the group.

39 male, 15years lifting, 6ft 205, BF ~20%

Goal: gain to 225lbs keeping bodyfat in check. Eventually bring bodyfat into high teens. If you believe I should do these in opposite order, please share that.

TRT I've been on for 1 year. Currently 200mg/wk test CYP, 750IU HCG, each pinned 3TW. (No AI needed at this dose). Also take 2mg/day finasteride to maintain hair

Recent lab
Testosterone: (RR 264-916) ng/dL, 1313
Free Testosterone(Direct): (RR 8.7-25.1) pg/mL, 27.1
Estradiol (MPMD ideal is 5% total T): (RR 7.6-42.6) pg/mL, 28.3
Prostate Specific Ag01: (RR 0.0-4.0) ng/mL, 0.5
DHEA-Sulfate: (RR 102.6-416.3) ug/dL, 191
Insulin-Like Growth Factor: (RR 95-290) ng/mL, 186
Insulin Final: (RR 2.6-24.9) uIU/mL, 7.7
Sex Horm Binding Glob, Serum: (RR 16.5-55.9) nmol/L, 20.8
DHT Dihydrotestosterone: (RR 30-85) ng/dL, 18
TSH: (RR .45-4.5) uIU/mL, 2.2

Questions:
What do you think of below idea? Tweaks? Completely disagree and propose a new plan?
I'm aware of textbook E2 symptoms, but need advice on where I may proactively leverage aromosin, and at what date stages I should pull E2 labs. Liver protection beyond milk thistle?

Based on some prior reading, I got enough dbol to do a 4-6wk 20mg or 40mg / day cycle. I've heard this is a solid balance of bulking/tolerable ped.

My half baked plan is either 20/40mg of dbol on top of normal trt regiment for 4-6 weeks, while training hard and eating 300-500 caloric surplus a day.

I also got one vial of primo. Unsure if this is enough to yield any result at all. I also have enough test to increase above normal trt dose of recommended.

That's as far as ive gotten. I won't start until I have a solid plan ironed out. Just reaching out here as I've hit my limit of planning in a vacuum and can use the shared expertise here.

Thanks
 
nightwing said:
Why dbol?
Click to expand...
I don't have a deep answer. Essentially in my reading here and watching mpmd, v-steve, others it seemed to emerge as one that can achieve my goal of hypertrophy that is least aggressive on sides.

I read about Tbol, and primo separately and it seemed they were more fitted for toning/recomp/linear gains.

Please set me straight where I'm misunderstanding, I'm a newb beyond my trt.
 
I'd personally get rid of the finesteride oral and go with a topical. I would feel like crap with dht that low. IDK how the dht alpha reductase inhibitors work on dianabol. Not sure how it converts and if it does convert it's going to be 1-2 dihydro 17 methyl DHT. Dianabol will add some mass but 1/2 of it will be water, which is good and bad. Lots of good physiques were built in the 70s and 80s on dianabol, usually with deca paired. Deca is supposedly hair frinedly but IME not dick friendly.
 
Chac said:
Team,

I could use the expertise of the group.

39 male, 15years lifting, 6ft 205, BF ~20%

Goal: gain to 225lbs keeping bodyfat in check. Eventually bring bodyfat into high teens. If you believe I should do these in opposite order, please share that.

TRT I've been on for 1 year. Currently 200mg/wk test CYP, 750IU HCG, each pinned 3TW. (No AI needed at this dose). Also take 2mg/day finasteride to maintain hair

Recent lab
Testosterone: (RR 264-916) ng/dL, 1313
Free Testosterone(Direct): (RR 8.7-25.1) pg/mL, 27.1
Estradiol (MPMD ideal is 5% total T): (RR 7.6-42.6) pg/mL, 28.3
Prostate Specific Ag01: (RR 0.0-4.0) ng/mL, 0.5
DHEA-Sulfate: (RR 102.6-416.3) ug/dL, 191
Insulin-Like Growth Factor: (RR 95-290) ng/mL, 186
Insulin Final: (RR 2.6-24.9) uIU/mL, 7.7
Sex Horm Binding Glob, Serum: (RR 16.5-55.9) nmol/L, 20.8
DHT Dihydrotestosterone: (RR 30-85) ng/dL, 18
TSH: (RR .45-4.5) uIU/mL, 2.2

Questions:
What do you think of below idea? Tweaks? Completely disagree and propose a new plan?
I'm aware of textbook E2 symptoms, but need advice on where I may proactively leverage aromosin, and at what date stages I should pull E2 labs. Liver protection beyond milk thistle?

Based on some prior reading, I got enough dbol to do a 4-6wk 20mg or 40mg / day cycle. I've heard this is a solid balance of bulking/tolerable ped.

My half baked plan is either 20/40mg of dbol on top of normal trt regiment for 4-6 weeks, while training hard and eating 300-500 caloric surplus a day.

I also got one vial of primo. Unsure if this is enough to yield any result at all. I also have enough test to increase above normal trt dose of recommended.

That's as far as ive gotten. I won't start until I have a solid plan ironed out. Just reaching out here as I've hit my limit of planning in a vacuum and can use the shared expertise here.

Thanks
Click to expand...
Dbol @ that BF% will guarantee you estrogen issues, your bf will dramatically increase, you starting fat you are just going to get more fat
 
Lots of great info!

So far it seems Deca 200-300mg added on top of existing TRT dose.

Dcdogz I didn't fully understand your NPP related recommendation, if it would replace deca or add on top of the above?
 
Chac said:
Lots of great info!

So far it seems Deca 200-300mg added on top of existing TRT dose.

Dcdogz I didn't fully understand your NPP related recommendation, if it would replace deca or add on top of the above?
Click to expand...
npp and deca are the mostly same just different ester. its in and out of system faster then deca.
some people prefer one over the other, particularly due to side effects. i prefer npp some prefer deca.

so youd' run one or the other.

its like the difference between test c, test prop.
 
SB Labs
I would just start with test only for your first cycle and increase it slowly to see how you feel and if you have any side effects. Find a dose that you are making gain and feel good on with no side effects. If you add to many compound in at one time you will not know what is causing problems if you develop any.
 
Wardamn said:
You should definitely cut down 1st. 20%+ body fat and DBol is just asking for some serious bloat and fat gain.

You could just bump up the test and run a cut.
Click to expand...
I'm 100% agree what Wardamn describes here! You will get puffy face and get bloated, looking very fat on dbol with 20% bf.

Check your diet first.

I would go for a DHT like Primo or Var........

Given the mild nature of Primobolan (whether oral or injectable), people use it in long lean bulking cycles or along their TRT. It can also be used to retain muscle mass and improve muscle hardness and vascularity during a cut.

Primobolan will not directly burn fat, but it is commonly used in cutting cycles because it provides a dry, lean and vascular look with no water retention.
 
Your bodyfat is too high to start cycling and a solid NO on DBol. Way too many reasons to list.

Get lean, run a low test cycle with a consistent lean bulk.
 
15 years lifting, I'd think you'd have understood the differences in types of steroids and what the different esters do, their half life, side effects etc, especially before you start tossing orals in. I think you might wanna keep reading.
 
nightwing said:
15 years lifting, I'd think you'd have understood the differences in types of steroids and what the different esters do, their half life, side effects etc, especially before you start tossing orals in. I think you might wanna keep reading.
Click to expand...
15 years lifting, and 1st time cycling is quite a difference altogether, lifting for 15 years has nothing to do with understanding the steroids and what different esters do, big up to the OP for waiting so long... That's why he's here asking before he jumps in head first. Constructive criticism is good, but read along the lines....
 
Ahh, great explanation!
dcdogz said:
npp and deca are the mostly same just different ester. its in and out of system faster then deca.
some people prefer one over the other, particularly due to side effects. i prefer npp some prefer deca.

so youd' run one or the other.

its like the difference between test c, test prop.
Click to expand...
 
Thank you all for helping me pin down:
Dbol no. Dumb on me to order, but even dumber to take it knowing what I do now.
Primo I actually have two vials of 200mg/10ml, so maybe I try that with my trt to shed some BF. (Wise/unwise?).
Click to expand...

All good info. My current thinking is:

1/ simply increase test alone, to determine point of diminishing returns there.

2/ once I feel I want to move beyond test alone, and have reduce BF a bit, deca/npp (roughly 1:1 with test) is the next step to consider for adding additional lean mass.

The most daunting part in my mind is E2 monitoring/management. Go by feel? Or is that too late? Labs at some particular intervals? I'll also keep reading other posts about this too.
 
Glycomann said:
I'd personally get rid of the finesteride oral and go with a topical. I would feel like crap with dht that low. IDK how the dht alpha reductase inhibitors work on dianabol. Not sure how it converts and if it does convert it's going to be 1-2 dihydro 17 methyl DHT. Dianabol will add some mass but 1/2 of it will be water, which is good and bad. Lots of good physiques were built in the 70s and 80s on dianabol, usually with deca paired. Deca is supposedly hair frinedly but IME not dick friendly.
Click to expand...
DHT numbers, good point I wasn't giving enough thought. Do you find yours a particular ratio of test markers?
 
MoreWeightsMoreDates said:
15 years lifting, and 1st time cycling is quite a difference altogether, lifting for 15 years has nothing to do with understanding the steroids and what different esters do, big up to the OP for waiting so long... That's why he's here asking before he jumps in head first. Constructive criticism is good, but read along the lines....
Click to expand...
you act like this guy turned over a new leaf today and said, ok time for steroids, after being in a gym/lifting for over a decade. cmon man
 
Bump your test up to 400+/ week & run it for 12 weeks. Forget all the other noise for your 1st run. If you're bent on adding in an oral - definitely NO Dbol.
Consider 25mg Anavar OR Proviron/ day or pre-workout instead, depending on what you want to accomplish. Both are mild orals that will give you nice results over 12 weeks.
 
HighCotton said:
Bump your test up to 400+/ week & run it for 12 weeks. Forget all the other noise for your 1st run. If you're bent on adding in an oral - definitely NO Dbol.
Consider 25mg Anavar OR Proviron/ day or pre-workout instead, depending on what you want to accomplish. Both are mild orals that will give you nice results over 12 weeks.
Click to expand...
I love proviron for a million reasons. my choice would be proviron
 
nightwing said:
15 years lifting, I'd think you'd have understood the differences in types of steroids and what the different esters do, their half life, side effects etc, especially before you start tossing orals in. I think you might wanna keep reading.
Click to expand...
Nightwing.. Are you the DC Comics superhero that belittles people's knowledge base as a superpower?

iu
 
nightwing said:
you act like this guy turned over a new leaf today and said, ok time for steroids, after being in a gym/lifting for over a decade. cmon man
Click to expand...
Yeah, you been here few months and know it all, let @Glycomann sort u... I dno what I'm talking about

When a person has been on trt and asks about 'taking the next step' asking about upping the dose with a Lil added dbol....

15 years natty and started trt 1 year ago, he should know better about roids??? I'm sure u know it all, ur advice though isn't that great.... Keep talking

Have u ever posted a pic, or you one of them 🥴....
 

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