Anyone get wildly different results or react differently to different esters???

[WED]

I've been a Test Cyp rider for a while. Always had pretty solid multiples...usually around 6x. Trying out Sust for the first time, obviously a mix of esters do different release. Same pinning, same diet, same workouts....but sub 4x on Sust.

Got some EQ and NPP in the mix for the first time, but would that really mute Test levels vs Primo/Mast? Total vs Free is the same ratio.

I have no reason to doubt the source. Probably get retested again soon, but wouldn't think it would massively jump 1500ng/dl

 

[Meetketchup]

You will score different test levels with each ester as they have different amount of compound concentration. Also, people respond differently on top of that. Not too significant but a difference. Add adding compounds will certainly affect it.

 

[floridaman1984]

I've been a Test Cyp rider for a while. Always had pretty solid multiples...usually around 6x. Trying out Sust for the first time, obviously a mix of esters do different release. Same pinning, same diet, same workouts....but sub 4x on Sust.

Got some EQ and NPP in the mix for the first time, but would that really mute Test levels vs Primo/Mast? Total vs Free is the same ratio.

I have no reason to doubt the source. Probably get retested again soon, but wouldn't think it would massively jump 1500ng/dl

For whatever reason I know my blood work is lower with sustanon also. I pin daily also. I do like sustanon though personally. Will be trying Marathon Iso next.

 

[Lustyscripps]

I've been a Test Cyp rider for a while. Always had pretty solid multiples...usually around 6x. Trying out Sust for the first time, obviously a mix of esters do different release. Same pinning, same diet, same workouts....but sub 4x on Sust.

Got some EQ and NPP in the mix for the first time, but would that really mute Test levels vs Primo/Mast? Total vs Free is the same ratio.

I have no reason to doubt the source. Probably get retested again soon, but wouldn't think it would massively jump 1500ng/dl

Interesting this comes up because I was thinking the same thing. And like Meetketchup said adding compounds effects levels and every”body” certainly reacts differently. 150mgs/week of straight TRT(nothing else) had my total T slightly over 1000ng/dL and free T at 300pg/mL.

I’m currently running 750mgs/wk of Test Cyp and around 250-300mgs/wk of Test P (added it as a kickstart but just kept it in- love the way i feel) so that’s about 1 gram a week. That had my total T at 3600ng/dL and free T at 1714. That free T is 5.7x multiplier while the Total T didn’t have that kind of response (still an absolute bangin number in my opinion). I’m also running EQ and about to drop NPP.

Ive come to enjoy getting bloodwork to see how my body responds to certain dosage tweaks here and there. I’m my own experiment.

edit: TRT pins are x2 a week- Blast pins are ED

 

[WED]

For whatever reason I know my blood work is lower with sustanon also. I pin daily also. I do like sustanon though personally. Will be trying Marathon Iso next.

Yeah was gonna run Test E next ... assume it should be pretty close to Cyp

 

[floridaman1984]

Yeah was gonna run Test E next ... assume it should be pretty close to Cyp

My blood work was very similar between those 2 for me.

 

[WED]

My blood work was very similar between those 2 for me.

Yeah they aren't too much different in terms of half-life. I've got a ton of Sust right now. I feel results are solid even tho levels are lower

I guess that's good

 

[floridaman1984]

Yeah they aren't too much different in terms of half-life. I've got a ton of Sust right now. I feel results are solid even tho levels are lower

I guess that's good

Yeah same here, I feel good on sust. Good libido for sure

 

[floridaman1984]

Yeah they aren't too much different in terms of half-life. I've got a ton of Sust right now. I feel results are solid even tho levels are lower

I guess that's good

Yeah same here, I feel good on sust. Good libido for sure

 

[19NorFan]

Yes and when comparing something like test prop to test decanoate, those are two complete different drugs from my experience.

The differences between test c and e are more subtle but when you compare the esters on either ends of the half life spectrum, they very much behave like different drugs, not just different clearance times.

 

[WED]

Yes and when comparing something like test prop to test decanoate, those are two complete different drugs from my experience.

The differences between test c and e are more subtle but when you compare the esters on either ends of the half life spectrum, they very much behave like different drugs, not just different clearance times.

Yeah, get the longer half life/saturation too. Figured at peak they would be similar. Ester weight might play apart too?

 

[floridaman1984]

@WED how much longer you have before switching away from sust?

 

[WED]

@WED how much longer you have before switching away from sust?

I plan on running it the entire cycle, then health phase through EOY. Jan was going to swap to E or use some of my pharma Cyp during Nov/Dec

 

[Vision]

Here's some info I posted years back, because I fall into this same category with responding and differently.

Let's begin with the expression of a single hormones yielding an opposite effect - rather than a positive "smooth" response to the hormone as some individuals claim/experience..

An appropriate example to begin with would be that of an alcoholic...

Why? Because of Genetics, I'll explain!

Everyone posses different gene expression,with enzymes,protein bonds,and so on..
(Enzymes are known to catalyze more then 5k biochemical types)..
Yet our bodies posses inhibitors and activator molecules that can greatly effect the activity,
by increasing or decreasing hormonal actives..

Now, that of an acholohic, it's a genetic predisposition (same applies for particular endocrines with sensitive users concerning AAS) in which one posses a group of particular enzymes that metabolize alcohol much differently compared to other individuals,
thus the effects will be much greater, and more detrimental in some individuals over the next..(Different metabolization)

Now, let's compare this to the hormones!

(Example) Testosterone can have 3 roles

1) Being testosterone as it's primary function..
2) Converting into DHT (dihydrotestosterone: a more potent metabolite/androgen)..
3)Converting into estrogen

Here you see this effect differs greatly by individual instances, as genetics, age or even ethnicity (in some cases),
or even sex may be a factor, whether one has a greater presence of aromatase enzymes, or even a deficiency..
Hormones/esters have various biosynthetic pathways occurring in the endorcrine,
some either or before reaching their target tissue(to control plasma levels or active compounds),
or at times after termination of their actions (inactivation and elimination)..

However many of hormones and esters are metabolized within their target tissue,
in which a complex interplay between activation and inactivation mechanisms serve to regulate the specificity and the amplitude of the hormonal response..

This is why "singular ester" hormone treatment is NOT designed as a one size fits all therapy...

Just an FYI: There's two main types of enzymes that act in the cleaving process of the ester in which activate the hormone...

These 2 particular "Enzymes" are esterases & hydrolysate..

These come along and cleave pieces of the ester off the hormone, thereby releasing the active chemical (parenting steroid hormone) and allowing it to do its job (ultimately muscle building/tissue via protein synthesis, positive nitrogen balance and so on )...

Now in the bloodstream which testosterone and blood born nutrients and substances circulate is recognized as the "medium".
These enzymes circulate in the medium and directly affect the release of "active" hormone in the bloodstream by ester cleavage, thus exerting different expression per individuals, trigger a chute of cellular interaction at receptor sites that will differ from one to the next..

People need to remember that hormones are "chemical messengers" that rely messages to cells that display specific receptors for each hormone and respond to the signaling..

Depending on the ester and the individuals metabolization ratio the hormone can/may make changes directly to a cell, by changing the genes that are activated, or by making changes indirectly to a cell by stimulating other signaling pathways inside a specific cell group that is effected and effect other processes, thus this can "initiate" an intracellular cascade of events..

This is why the "same/singular hormone ester" effects people differently, because there's numerous ways a hormone can yield different effects..So, depending on which transcription factors are present different genes will be transcribed in response...Thereby the reason some individuals tend to bloat and others do NOT, as some can run 250mgs of Test and begin to see signs of fluid retention or edema exert in the circular system, or particular regions of the body..Yet, there's individuals that can utilize 1000mgs of Test and remain dry..Of course diet permitting.. (but this article's about biosynthesis, and not diet)

 

[floridaman1984]

Thanks @Vision some great info, as always.

 

[Vision]

Thanks @Vision some great info, as always.

This is a great topic, and a great question by the op.

 

[WED]

I am here to ask great questions

 

[Bigdaddyjak]

An ester change between cyp and Eth, is very noticeable. I can not run Test E , even if it’s from pharma .

 

[WED]

An ester change between cyp and Eth, is very noticeable. I can not run Test E , even if it’s from pharma .

Does it just hit you faster or higher peaks/lower valleys with the lower half life?

 

[Vision]

An ester change between cyp and Eth, is very noticeable. I can not run Test E , even if it’s from pharma .

Same right here, pharmaceutical ampules from back when, pharmaceutical now, I can't touch TE. Huge difference between cyp.

Chemistry is crazy.

 

[floridaman1984]

Are yall just talking about from the PIP perspective?

 

[Chemicalreaction]

I was about to say pip is crazy with e for me but I still dumb enough to always come back but I've always wanted to try sus

 

[floridaman1984]

Im one of the lucky ones. Knock on wood. The enanthate ester doesn't bother me.

 

[Chemicalreaction]

I really like test prop out of all with the fast acting I do feel a difference

 

[floridaman1984]

I really like test prop out of all with the fast acting I do feel a difference

Ive never done prop solo for a cruise. But I have considered it. Since I do daily injections anyways.

 

[Chemicalreaction]

Ive never done prop solo for a cruise. But I have considered it. Since I do daily injections anyways.

I think you should definitely try it at least once especially if your already doing daily I shit you not I was doing test prop as an experiment I noticed by like 3 days I was up quicker cleaning the house more engery

 

[19NorFan]

There are a couple of ways that testosterone esters vary from one to the other, but not limited to:

- Test Prop is less HPTA suppressive than long ester test. In a 2020 mouse study, test prop was found not to be as LH/FSH suppressive as cypionate or enanthate. Testicular weight was also higher. Anecdotally, I notice larger loads on test prop and prefer test prop for hrt/cruising.

- Test Decanoate is found (anecdotally) to cause less hair shedding. Likely due to its slower release having an impact on dht conversion, but that is speculative. In my own experience, longer esters in any AAS have fewer androgenic sides than shorter esters, so there could be something to this. For example, I barely feel tren e, I get next to zero of the neural drive that I get from acetate. Acetate also potentiates more aggression and acne issues than enanthate.

- I notice that with test prop, I have a lower ceiling for estradiol levels, meaning, if I inject 50mg test prop per day, my estrogen levels will be significantly lower than if I inject an equivalent dose of enanthate, like 2-3x higher. This is because prop has a faster clearance time and in turn less saturation. A high amount of test saturation is also correlated with larger day to day variations in estrogen levels. This is also seen when using npp vs deca. If you were to inject 350mg/week of nandrolone decanoate and 350mg/week of test enanthate, your estrogen will probably be off the charts, you will have ed sides, it's gonna be a mess without estrogen control. However, if you were to do 350mg/week of NPP and 350mg/week of test prop, that would be much more manageable from the estrogen and side effect management part of it, because of the lower saturation amounts.

All of the above is from different studies that I've read, with varying levels of robustness OR it is based on anecdotal experience so don't take it with caution. My experience with AAS won't necessarily be the same as yours.

 

[floridaman1984]

There are a couple of ways that testosterone esters vary from one to the other, but not limited to:

- Test Prop is less HPTA suppressive than long ester test. In a 2020 mouse study, test prop was found not to be as LH/FSH suppressive as cypionate or enanthate. Testicular weight was also higher. Anecdotally, I notice larger loads on test prop and prefer test prop for hrt/cruising.

- Test Decanoate is found (anecdotally) to cause less hair shedding. Likely due to its slower release having an impact on dht conversion, but that is speculative. In my own experience, longer esters in any AAS have fewer androgenic sides than shorter esters, so there could be something to this. For example, I barely feel tren e, I get next to zero of the neural drive that I get from acetate. Acetate also potentiates more aggression and acne issues than enanthate.

- I notice that with test prop, I have a lower ceiling for estradiol levels, meaning, if I inject 50mg test prop per day, my estrogen levels will be significantly lower than if I inject an equivalent dose of enanthate, like 2-3x higher. This is because prop has a faster clearance time and in turn less saturation. A high amount of test saturation is also correlated with larger day to day variations in estrogen levels. This is also seen when using npp vs deca. If you were to inject 350mg/week of nandrolone decanoate and 350mg/week of test enanthate, your estrogen will probably be off the charts, you will have ed sides, it's gonna be a mess without estrogen control. However, if you were to do 350mg/week of NPP and 350mg/week of test prop, that would be much more manageable from the estrogen and side effect management part of it, because of the lower saturation amounts.

All of the above is from different studies that I've read, with varying levels of robustness OR it is based on anecdotal experience so don't take it with caution. My experience with AAS won't necessarily be the same as yours.

Thanks for taking the time to share all info and actual experiences.

Ive been planning on cruising with ISO next. But I might start it off with prop just to try it out solo, then bring in the ISO after a few weeks. Gives me something to think about anyways.

 

[Chemicalreaction]

Has any of y'all tried test decanoate or undecanoate

 

[floridaman1984]

Has any of y'all tried test decanoate or undecanoate

Only in the sustanon blend. Not solo.