Add mast or up T (from TRT) to cut?

[McPriimate]

Hey all,

TLDR - Is it better to add masteron to a TRT dose of T or increase T to a high cruise/light cycle to minimize lean tissue loss toward the end of a cut?

More detail. I'm about 30 pounds down (190 to about 161 at 5'8" - yeah, I got kinda fluffy in the time between stopping competitive distance racing and starting TRT). Lost about 25 or 26 of fat and 3 or 4 of muscle (prioritized diet, hit the gym religiously, trt plus tirzepatide and for the last month avg of 2iU of hGH). Lost most of it over 5 months and have been doing 2 months of very stable maintenance to shed the diet fatigue before the last push. I'm b/w 16 and 17% BF and want to get to 14 or a bit below before transitioning to a lean gain phase through the fall.

At maintenance, I'm stable and have probably added a bit of muscle during the couple months (slooooowly). Now I'm concerned about losing lean mass, as getting to 13-14% for me will mean a harder push on calorie restriction. So, to mitigate that I'm wondering if it would be better to keep my TRT at 180mg/wk (Tcyp BiW) and add 100-180 of mast (or primo, but I was thinking of that more for the lean gain phase), or just push my weekly T up to say 250mg/wk. 180 is the most I've run, so this will be a first mini-cycle for me. If it were just for gains, I'd likely just push the test up, add calories, rinse and repeat until I found my upper limit on test - but I would like to drop another 3-ish% BF before doing that and just don't want to lose lean mass if I can avoid it.

Combining trt and/or trt+ with losing weight is new to me, as I've always made race weight in the past through diet and training - and never once thought about maintaining lean mass, just increasing VO2 max (less weight is better) and endurance (same, really). But I'm not doing the 15+ hour weeks on the roads anymore, thank goodness, and am now very focused on building a different physique than a bony-ass triathlete lol

Hence the TLDR - add mast to TRT or up T during a cut?

Appreciate any thoughts
McP

 

[Meetketchup]

You won't be at risk to lose muscle if you are at 13-14% unless your diet and training are off. Your dose of TRT is plenty to hold onto tissue at this point. Just my opinion. Get your diet, training and cardio dialed in with recovery.

 

[BBruce]

You could add Mast but it won’t do very much in those doses and going from 180 to 250 Test won’t be any difference either.

I would recommend to push a little more before adding drugs and if/when you want to do “mini cycle” add Mast and push both to 300.

 

[heckler7]

add primo if you can afford it, why are you running 180mg of T is it thru a TRT clinic?

 

[JC33]

200 test 100 mast or even 200/200 is a great cruise in my opinion, especially if you’re pretty lean or trying to get leaner 400 mg of AAS isn’t going to skew your blood work that bad if at all unless you eat like a jackass and don’t do cardio. So it really depends like a picture would be some good context. In some people primo can lower estrogen pretty significantly it doesn’t lower mine at all, but you gotta be careful with that or you might end up feeling like shit whereas masteron just makes you look sick and super horny.
I vote 200/200 allll day

 

[McPriimate]

You won't be at risk to lose muscle if you are at 13-14% unless your diet and training are off. Your dose of TRT is plenty to hold onto tissue at this point. Just my opinion. Get your diet, training and cardio dialed in with recovery.

Thanks. Really interesting, as one of the more prominent risks of glp-1/gip’s is loss of muscle mass during the rapid loss phase at the outset. Even people with a ton of fat to lose.

You must be right in that it was probably the TRT (combined with a very good diet and resistance training - but that’s often not sufficient in itself during the kind of loss people can see on starting tirz/sema/reta) that helped me hold on to most of the muscle while dropping a pile of fat

I know I’ll lose a little lean mass - just trying to minimize it. 13-14% is fairly lean for me and at or maybe even a bit below where I would compete in long course, but I think “fairly lean” means something very different on this board than to most people! Good perspective that what most shlubs on the street think of as fit is probably still well north of the level of lean where it gets physiologically really tough to lose much more fat without taking some muscle with it

Thanks for the “don’t overthink it too much” reminder.

McP


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[McPriimate]

add primo if you can afford it, why are you running 180mg of T is it thru a TRT clinic?

Yeah - TRT clinic. Mostly manage the TRT on my own but like to have a script for it for various reasons. The “plus” would obviously be outside that, but I wouldn’t run anything that would push me much outside normal bloods (i have a couple former colleagues - docs who are up on HRT/TRT but not as much PEDs - who also help manage my TRT/approach/labs).

I’m 56 and resisted going on TRT for a few years with low T and lots of symptoms - which in hindsight was a mistake, as 150-180 of T has made a huge(!) difference in my life! I was also competing for a long time in sports where you couldn’t use any PEDs, including T, but now that I’m not (and once my symptoms got more prominent) I’m happily pinning away lol


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[McPriimate]

200 test 100 mast or even 200/200 is a great cruise in my opinion, especially if you’re pretty lean or trying to get leaner 400 mg of AAS isn’t going to skew your blood work that bad if at all unless you eat like a jackass and don’t do cardio. So it really depends like a picture would be some good context. In some people primo can lower estrogen pretty significantly it doesn’t lower mine at all, but you gotta be careful with that or you might end up feeling like shit whereas masteron just makes you look sick and super horny.
I vote 200/200 allll day

The siren song of masteron! lol Looking sick is the goal, although not sure the Mrs wants me any hornier than i am! Good thing she’s game.

Good reminder on primo. I crashed my E once when i first started TRT following the doc’s (and he was a typical doc in the box T-clinic guy - meaning a moron about HRT) advice to just start on 200mg/wk and 1mg anastrazole twice weekly. Holy shit - an AI when you don’t need it suuuuucks! I got real smart real quick on TRT at that point, as I luckily have a few resources to help (all of which i know I should have done first - but it’s amazing how easy it is to think that a doc who’s job it is to manage TRT knows what he’s doing, when in fact he’s just there to write the same script for every patient). I mean, i know how the health care system is set up and works (or doesn’t!) but i fell into the same trap. I admit it was embarrassing, but a good reminder that we have to be responsible for our own health and put the work in to be as educated as possible. Imagine if docs did the same?!? Ok, time to hop off my soapbox lol

Thanks

McP


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[taylercoooper]

Hey all,

TLDR - Is it better to add masteron to a TRT dose of T or increase T to a high cruise/light cycle to minimize lean tissue loss toward the end of a cut?

More detail. I'm about 30 pounds down (190 to about 161 at 5'8" - yeah, I got kinda fluffy in the time between stopping competitive distance racing and starting TRT). Lost about 25 or 26 of fat and 3 or 4 of muscle (prioritized diet, hit the gym religiously, trt plus tirzepatide and for the last month avg of 2iU of hGH). Lost most of it over 5 months and have been doing 2 months of very stable maintenance to shed the diet fatigue before the last push. I'm b/w 16 and 17% BF and want to get to 14 or a bit below before transitioning to a lean gain phase through the fall.

At maintenance, I'm stable and have probably added a bit of muscle during the couple months (slooooowly). Now I'm concerned about losing lean mass, as getting to 13-14% for me will mean a harder push on calorie restriction. So, to mitigate that I'm wondering if it would be better to keep my TRT at 180mg/wk (Tcyp BiW) and add 100-180 of mast (or primo, but I was thinking of that more for the lean gain phase), or just push my weekly T up to say 250mg/wk. 180 is the most I've run, so this will be a first mini-cycle for me. If it were just for gains, I'd likely just push the test up, add calories, rinse and repeat until I found my upper limit on test - but I would like to drop another 3-ish% BF before doing that and just don't want to lose lean mass if I can avoid it.

Combining trt and/or trt+ with losing weight is new to me, as I've always made race weight in the past through diet and training - and never once thought about maintaining lean mass, just increasing VO2 max (less weight is better) and endurance (same, really). But I'm not doing the 15+ hour weeks on the roads anymore, thank goodness, and am now very focused on building a different physique than a bony-ass triathlete lol

Hence the TLDR - add mast to TRT or up T during a cut?

Appreciate any thoughts
McP

Adding Masteron to your TRT dose during the final phase of a cut can help preserve lean mass and enhance muscle hardness without significantly increasing estrogen-related sides. However, if you're okay with managing potential E2 and androgenic effects, pushing test to 250mg/week could also be effective and simpler for a first cruise-style cycle.

 

[McPriimate]

Adding Masteron to your TRT dose during the final phase of a cut can help preserve lean mass and enhance muscle hardness without significantly increasing estrogen-related sides. However, if you're okay with managing potential E2 and androgenic effects, pushing test to 250mg/week could also be effective and simpler for a first cruise-style cycle.

Thanks. As much as I’d like to add mast to see what it does (from what it feels like to bloods), I think I’ll likely push the test to 250 first and see what that does to bloods - particularly E2 as you say. I’m significantly leaner than I used to be (dexa this week said 9.5% - which I don’t entirely believe!) so am also wondering about how I’m aromatizing, esp at a slightly higher T dose. Scientific method and all - change one thing at a time.

Appreciate the response!
McP


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[heckler7]

I get pretty good results from test 100 tren 100 mast 100 cruise in between cycles

 

[McPriimate]

I get pretty good results from test 100 tren 100 mast 100 cruise in between cycles

Thanks man. I’m a long way in my development (physical and mental lol) and learning curve from tren, as this will be my first cycle above TRT (well, hGH is on board, but steroid-wise). Appreciate the response, as the 19-nor I’m considering for later is nandrolone (have some deca from the doc and also NPP that I thought I’d run as a trial for it first - but only after I’ve done test only cycles and then prolly mast and or primo cycles to see how I react to those and maybe use them to mitigate sides from NPP/deca), which though definitely not tren is adjacent (if juuuuuust and while squinting). Prolly won’t run tren ever at my age and with my goals (I’m just trying to look better naked and stay healthy - ok, and add some mass…), but I appreciate your input and commenting on this!

McP


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[GonadalGooner88]

Your goal on a cut is to lose weight. Steroids dont help with cutting fat, they help with the creation and maintenence of muscle tissue.

Yes you can still build muscle on a cut, and upping the anabolics can help with that, but for the same androgenic load, youre getting much less than if you did the same on growth phase.

As for your question, masteron is simple and easy compound to add. You really can just add it any stack on not really have to worry aboht antthing beyond the basic androgencity that every steroid brings, such as acne or hair loss, but this effect is mild compared to other AAS.

Test is simple too, but it will alter your estrogen, which has to be managed.

If you have the option for either Id, say adding mast is easier. But test is cheaper.

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[taylercoooper]

The siren song of masteron! lol Looking sick is the goal, although not sure the Mrs wants me any hornier than i am! Good thing she’s game.

Good reminder on primo. I crashed my E once when i first started TRT following the doc’s (and he was a typical doc in the box T-clinic guy - meaning a moron about HRT) advice to just start on 200mg/wk and 1mg anastrazole twice weekly. Holy shit - an AI when you don’t need it suuuuucks! I got real smart real quick on TRT at that point, as I luckily have a few resources to help (all of which i know I should have done first - but it’s amazing how easy it is to think that a doc who’s job it is to manage TRT knows what he’s doing, when in fact he’s just there to write the same script for every patient). I mean, i know how the health care system is set up and works (or doesn’t!) but i fell into the same trap. I admit it was embarrassing, but a good reminder that we have to be responsible for our own health and put the work in to be as educated as possible. Imagine if docs did the same?!? Ok, time to hop off my soapbox lol

Thanks
Game cafes website are becoming popular social spots in Melbourne and Sydney
McP


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Haha yeah man, Masteron’s like vanity in a vial—hard to resist once you’ve seen what it does. Totally feel you on the AI disaster; crashed E is a rough lesson but one you never forget. Respect for owning it though—so many guys just keep blindly following bad protocols instead of digging in and figuring it out for themselves.

 

[Bolan]

Haha yeah man, Masteron’s like vanity in a vial—hard to resist once you’ve seen what it does. Totally feel you on the AI disaster; crashed E is a rough lesson but one you never forget. Respect for owning it though—so many guys just keep blindly following bad protocols instead of digging in and figuring it out for themselves.

I run Mast year round, just changing doses for TRT/Cruise/Blast.
Bloods always come back great.

 

[Johnm15923]

200 test 100 mast or even 200/200 is a great cruise in my opinion, especially if you’re pretty lean or trying to get leaner 400 mg of AAS isn’t going to skew your blood work that bad if at all unless you eat like a jackass and don’t do cardio. So it really depends like a picture would be some good context. In some people primo can lower estrogen pretty significantly it doesn’t lower mine at all, but you gotta be careful with that or you might end up feeling like shit whereas masteron just makes you look sick and super horny.
I vote 200/200 allll day

I'm running 200 test and im adding 200 mast and 50mg proviron. I'm not trying to be huge just want to keep a little mass and feel good while doing it.

 

[McPriimate]

I'm running 200 test and im adding 200 mast and 50mg proviron. I'm not trying to be huge just want to keep a little mass and feel good while doing it.

I imagine I’ll end up with something like this as my eventual and long term cruise, or this and some variations on it but similar.

After reading along here, I’ll probably stick between 180-200 test/week and keep dieting for another month to 5 weeks. That should get me to my goal. Dexa says 9.5%, scale (pos but a trend measurer) says like 16%, wife says 11-12% after studying many online pics of naked men at different percentages and comparing to me Weird, but I’ll take it if also gets her rolling lol.

Ahem, anyway, like 3-5 more pounds and I’ll be where I want to then start a lean, slow growth phase (after probably a month of maintenance to stabilize at the weight). I’ll probably start that with 200 test, add calories, push my gh from 4iU OED to 4iU ED (some interesting labs and papers I’ve found on that, but it’s a different story - likely gonna start that part now actually) and keep lifting hard. When that stalls out, I’ll probably try adding another 150 or 200 calories. When that stalls take test to 250, then calories then 350 - all depending on labs. I’m getting a batch back at the moment and am waiting on final testosterone and sensitive e2, but it seems I might be a high responder and a high converter. So, might be a lower dose as my top end without going to an AI - we’ll see

I might add masteron during one of those escalations just to see the lab effects and get a feel for it at lower doses. Same for proviron and primo, maybe NPP. Then after however many months (or maybe a year and then cut next spring, maintain/trt over summer and repeat lean gaining next fall - I bet I’ll get two years out of this approach before test plus/minus low dose of aas runs out of steam for growth) see if I want to just maintain that physique with trt/mast or primo/gh +/- proviron or go for another growth cycle with test base and push mast, NPP or primo as an additional anabolic driver.

Kinda fun to think that far out and try to put together a long term, slow and steady approach, although I know things can change. It’s more like how I used to plan my racing calendar - over years, not months or quarters - and I’m starting to understand the fun of the sport (even if my goals aren’t competitive in the same sense as many here).

Anyway, really appreciate the input from all y’alls

McP


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