First Cycle advice 20yrs old

[Soscircle]

Hi I'm 20yrs old, male 5'7", ~149 lb. And I wanted to get some advice/thoughts about my first cycle my goal is to maximize muscle and energy over the cycle, come off and recover natural production. I havent started or bought anything yet. im gonna do bloodwork every 6 weeks, 2700 calories tracked. I have diet, sleep, training and everything else pretty dialed in.

Questions
1. Is 20 weeks too long for a first cycle at 20, or is 12-16 the smarter call? Recovery is my main concern, not peak gains.
2. hCG — is back-loading from week 13 the right call, or should it run low-dose throughout? Is 12 days post-cycle at 1,000 IU EOD enough before the SERM?
3. Hct starting at 48.6% — how much headroom do I actually have at 200 mg/wk before I need to act?
4. Does the AST 60 / bili 1.4 need to be fully resolved before first pin, or is a clean recheck enough?
5. Anything on the buy list that's wrong, and anything missing?
6. PCT dosing — is 40/20 x4wk enough or should I extend to 6?
7. should i aim to run just test and wait until my first bloodwork to figure out what to do for pct, I my main fear is shutting down my natural testing production permanently

Hormones from my recent bloodwork:

• Total T (LC/MS/MS): 466 ng/dL (250-1100)
• Free T: 86.7 pg/mL (46-224)
• Bioavailable T: 185.9 ng/dL (110-575)
• SHBG: 21 nmol/L (10-50)
• Albumin: 4.7 g/dL
• LH: 3.4 mIU/mL (1.5-9.3)
• FSH: 3.7 mIU/mL (1.4-12.8)
• Estradiol: <30 pg/mL (immunoassay, ≤39)
• DHEA-S: 476 mcg/dL (20-480)
• IGF-1: 216 ng/mL, Z -0.5
• TSH: 0.82 mIU/L
• PSA: 0.9 ng/mL

CBC:
- WBC 6.4, RBC 5.59, Hgb 16.9, Hct 48.6, Plt 158

Lipids:
- TC 185, HDL 50, LDL 119, TG 65, non-HDL 135, TC/HDL 3.7

CMP:

• Glucose 87, BUN 20, Creatinine 1.21, eGFR 88, Na 137, K 4.5, Cl 101, CO2 25, Ca 9.8
• Total bili 1.4 (0.2-1.1), AST 60 (12-32), ALT 20 (8-46), ALP 78
• Albumin 4.8, Total protein 6.9

I think my AST/bili were flagged after a hard swim and gym session the day before.

Planned cycle

• Test C 200 mg/mL — 20 weeks at 200 mg/wk, pinned 100 mg E3.5D subq with slin pins
• hCG: nothing weeks 1-12, then 500 IU Mon/Thu weeks 13-20, then 1,000 IU EOD for 12 days after last pin or do maintance at 250-500 IU 2x/wk for full 20weeks
• Anastrozole 1 mg on hand only — no AI unless week 6 sensitive E2 comes back >60-70 or I get symptoms. 0.5 mg 2x/wk if needed.
• No taper

PCT

• Start 14-18 days after last injection
• Tamoxifen 40 mg/day x14d, then 20 mg/day x14d
• Clomid 25-50 mg/day optional alongside if I can source it

Monitoring

• CBC, CMP, lipids, sensitive E2, total T at week 6; CBC + lipids + BP at weeks 12 and 18
• Hct >52: hydrate, split dose, more cardio. Hct >54: donate, check ferritin

My Planned Purchases

• Test C 200mg/mL x12mL x3 vials
• hCG 10,000 IU x2 vials
• Bac water 30 mL
• Tamoxifen 20mg x30-42 tabs
• Arimidex 1mg x1 box
• 27-30g 1/2" slin pins x60, swabs, sharps bin

 

[Cypher]

I guarantee if you put as much time and effort into your training, diet, and actually putting in work at the gym (none of which you bothered to mention) as you did putting together this fucking god-awful AI/ChatGPT-generated cycle protocol, you wouldn't even be considering a cycle.

 

[Brutus6688]

I guarantee if you put as much time and effort into your training, diet, and actually putting in work at the gym (none of which you bothered to mention) as you did putting together this fucking god-awful AI/ChatGPT-generated cycle protocol, you wouldn't even be considering a cycle.

1000%!!!!!!!!

 

[Jburn]

I guarantee if you put as much time and effort into your training, diet, and actually putting in work at the gym (none of which you bothered to mention) as you did putting together this fucking god-awful AI/ChatGPT-generated cycle protocol, you wouldn't even be considering a cycle.

I second this. Also curious as why you test level is that low for a 20 year old.

PSA you’re victim weight man. Put the syringe down and pick up the fork and some weights.

 

[Big_Jimmy434]

If your goal is to preserve your natural production, 200mg of Test won't do what you hope its going to do in 12-16 weeks. It also will not do what you hope it will do in 20 weeks. It will, however, do exactly what you dont what it to do in that short period of time; negatively impact your natural production, raise your already sub-optimal LDL, raise your already borderline RBC. Basically, you won't get the gains that you want, and all of the negatives that you dont. You'd be lucky, really damn lucky, to put on 3-4lbs of lean muscle in those time frames. You'd be even more lucky if you even noticed it in the mirror, and if you did, its likely just the extra water retention.

As others have said, your time, effort, and money would be better served using it for a good diet and some structured training. You'd see more results without the negatives.

In other words, 200mg of Test isn't shit and isn't gonna do shit for you. You'd have to run a hell of alot more which would only compound the problems. It ain't worth it.

Take the pass on the gear, keep your body healthy, and there are alot of people here that if you listen to, can easily help you start a diet and training program that would far exceed that 200mg. Start a log in the log forum, people will help you.

 

[Knarfster]

Hi I'm 20yrs old, male 5'7", ~149 lb. And I wanted to get some advice/thoughts about my first cycle my goal is to maximize muscle and energy over the cycle, come off and recover natural production. I havent started or bought anything yet. im gonna do bloodwork every 6 weeks, 2700 calories tracked. I have diet, sleep, training and everything else pretty dialed in.

Questions
1. Is 20 weeks too long for a first cycle at 20, or is 12-16 the smarter call? Recovery is my main concern, not peak gains.
2. hCG — is back-loading from week 13 the right call, or should it run low-dose throughout? Is 12 days post-cycle at 1,000 IU EOD enough before the SERM?
3. Hct starting at 48.6% — how much headroom do I actually have at 200 mg/wk before I need to act?
4. Does the AST 60 / bili 1.4 need to be fully resolved before first pin, or is a clean recheck enough?
5. Anything on the buy list that's wrong, and anything missing?
6. PCT dosing — is 40/20 x4wk enough or should I extend to 6?
7. should i aim to run just test and wait until my first bloodwork to figure out what to do for pct, I my main fear is shutting down my natural testing production permanently

Hormones from my recent bloodwork:

• Total T (LC/MS/MS): 466 ng/dL (250-1100)
• Free T: 86.7 pg/mL (46-224)
• Bioavailable T: 185.9 ng/dL (110-575)
• SHBG: 21 nmol/L (10-50)
• Albumin: 4.7 g/dL
• LH: 3.4 mIU/mL (1.5-9.3)
• FSH: 3.7 mIU/mL (1.4-12.8)
• Estradiol: <30 pg/mL (immunoassay, ≤39)
• DHEA-S: 476 mcg/dL (20-480)
• IGF-1: 216 ng/mL, Z -0.5
• TSH: 0.82 mIU/L
• PSA: 0.9 ng/mL

CBC:
- WBC 6.4, RBC 5.59, Hgb 16.9, Hct 48.6, Plt 158

Lipids:
- TC 185, HDL 50, LDL 119, TG 65, non-HDL 135, TC/HDL 3.7

CMP:

• Glucose 87, BUN 20, Creatinine 1.21, eGFR 88, Na 137, K 4.5, Cl 101, CO2 25, Ca 9.8
• Total bili 1.4 (0.2-1.1), AST 60 (12-32), ALT 20 (8-46), ALP 78
• Albumin 4.8, Total protein 6.9

I think my AST/bili were flagged after a hard swim and gym session the day before.

Planned cycle

• Test C 200 mg/mL — 20 weeks at 200 mg/wk, pinned 100 mg E3.5D subq with slin pins
• hCG: nothing weeks 1-12, then 500 IU Mon/Thu weeks 13-20, then 1,000 IU EOD for 12 days after last pin or do maintance at 250-500 IU 2x/wk for full 20weeks
• Anastrozole 1 mg on hand only — no AI unless week 6 sensitive E2 comes back >60-70 or I get symptoms. 0.5 mg 2x/wk if needed.
• No taper

PCT

• Start 14-18 days after last injection
• Tamoxifen 40 mg/day x14d, then 20 mg/day x14d
• Clomid 25-50 mg/day optional alongside if I can source it

Monitoring

• CBC, CMP, lipids, sensitive E2, total T at week 6; CBC + lipids + BP at weeks 12 and 18
• Hct >52: hydrate, split dose, more cardio. Hct >54: donate, check ferritin

My Planned Purchases

• Test C 200mg/mL x12mL x3 vials
• hCG 10,000 IU x2 vials
• Bac water 30 mL
• Tamoxifen 20mg x30-42 tabs
• Arimidex 1mg x1 box
• 27-30g 1/2" slin pins x60, swabs, sharps bin

1. Is 20 weeks too long for a first cycle at 20 Yes , 1 week is too long.

 

[BackShot]

Dude typed all that to go on TRT

 

[Soscircle]

If your goal is to preserve your natural production, 200mg of Test won't do what you hope its going to do in 12-16 weeks. It also will not do what you hope it will do in 20 weeks. It will, however, do exactly what you dont what it to do in that short period of time; negatively impact your natural production, raise your already sub-optimal LDL, raise your already borderline RBC. Basically, you won't get the gains that you want, and all of the negatives that you dont. You'd be lucky, really damn lucky, to put on 3-4lbs of lean muscle in those time frames. You'd be even more lucky if you even noticed it in the mirror, and if you did, its likely just the extra water retention.

As others have said, your time, effort, and money would be better served using it for a good diet and some structured training. You'd see more results without the negatives.

In other words, 200mg of Test isn't shit and isn't gonna do shit for you. You'd have to run a hell of alot more which would only compound the problems. It ain't worth it.

Take the pass on the gear, keep your body healthy, and there are alot of people here that if you listen to, can easily help you start a diet and training program that would far exceed that 200mg. Start a log in the log forum, people will help you.

Are logs on a different forum? Like a whole different website? I searched up log on this forum and nothing came up

 

[Battousai]

500mg test

 

[Battousai]

I guarantee if you put as much time and effort into your training, diet, and actually putting in work at the gym (none of which you bothered to mention) as you did putting together this fucking god-awful AI/ChatGPT-generated cycle protocol, you wouldn't even be considering a cycle.

Hes not going to get far with a sub 500ng/dl. That is a godawful level for a 20 year old

 

[Soscircle]

Hes not going to get far with a sub 500ng/dl. That is a godawful level for a 20 year old

So am i just fucked? I don't really think i could fix anything except maybe get leaner, I already track calories on cronometer and hit like 150-160g protein, 23g carb and 70g fat, and my sleep is pretty good. I train pretty hard and track my workouts on the strong app and do 2 sets with 2 warmups UL, usually 6x a week, 3 upper 3 lower. Are my genetics just horrible?

My friend told me to run that cycle but i did a bit more research and I'd probably do
20 weeks
Test E 500mg/week
Hcg 250iu EOD
Last 6 weeks anavar 25mg ED

25g Aromasin EOD only if needed due to test:est balance Nolvadex 20mg ED 2 weeks if I get a crazy flare up or gyno.

But I probably wont do anything because besides my friends everyone here says im a idiot for considering doing a cycle at my age and weight

 

[elit3keraed]

What is your bodyfat percentage?


Bili and ast could be from intense exercise and the slightly out of range EGFR would confirm dehydration.


Your cycle sucks. 25g of aromasin will have your joints explode and your heart spazzing out from negative estrogen values. 25mg eod I probably going to be too much too.

Nolva would be useless if you’re taking aromasin. If you needed it during then your aromasin is bunk or your body converts 80% of testosterone to estrogen.

A 3 days cycle is too long. At 200mg a week is just stupid. I take 180mg a week to get to 830 total T.

Odds are your total test is shit because you’re eating 1300 calories a day. Unless you meant 230g of carbs and not 23.


I’m going to wager your training isn’t as intense as you think it is either. You’re 20. You would probably benefit from more volume until you’re well and truly established in this. Not saying high intensity training wouldn’t work BUT when you hit a bodypart is all the tension hitting that specific bodypart? Are you 100% crushing your pecs on bench or your lats on pull downs or are you recruiting a whole bunch of other muscles and putting 50% of the work on them?


If you’re 15% bodyfat and eating enough and truly training hard then yea your levels are just naturally shit.



Won’t even touch the cycle stuff because I feel like there’s a lot that needs to be answered and confirmed (or tried) before it’s considered.

 

[Soscircle]

What is your bodyfat percentage?


Bili and ast could be from intense exercise and the slightly out of range EGFR would confirm dehydration.


Your cycle sucks. 25g of aromasin will have your joints explode and your heart spazzing out from negative estrogen values. 25mg eod I probably going to be too much too.

Nolva would be useless if you’re taking aromasin. If you needed it during then your aromasin is bunk or your body converts 80% of testosterone to estrogen.

A 3 days cycle is too long. At 200mg a week is just stupid. I take 180mg a week to get to 830 total T.

Odds are your total test is shit because you’re eating 1300 calories a day. Unless you meant 230g of carbs and not 23.


I’m going to wager your training isn’t as intense as you think it is either. You’re 20. You would probably benefit from more volume until you’re well and truly established in this. Not saying high intensity training wouldn’t work BUT when you hit a bodypart is all the tension hitting that specific bodypart? Are you 100% crushing your pecs on bench or your lats on pull downs or are you recruiting a whole bunch of other muscles and putting 50% of the work on them?


If you’re 15% bodyfat and eating enough and truly training hard then yea your levels are just naturally shit.



Won’t even touch the cycle stuff because I feel like there’s a lot that needs to be answered and confirmed (or tried) before it’s considered.

Sorry, i missed the 0. I meant 230g carbs. Im eating around 2200-2400 cals a day. I think i have decent form when it comes to stuff like I'm not ego lifting or using momentum and i usually do feel mainly a chest pump and lat pump when i do bench and pull ups respectively. Should i do more sets, instead of 2x to failure, 6-8 reps? And i take creatine and preworkout and get enough fast digesting carbs from cream of rice 40g 1 hour before workout and orange juice during.

I think i'm around 16% bodyfat, like i have a visible ab outline for the most part. Can I send a picture of my physique here?

Also i dont know why i typed out 25g aromasin.

I meant to do 12.5g aromasin E3D, so
Test e 500mg per week
Last 6 weeks Anavar 25mg ED
Hcg 250iu eod

12.5g Aromasin e3d if needed
Nolvadex 20mg EDif flare up

 

[elit3keraed]

Sorry, i missed the 0. I meant 230g carbs. Im eating around 2200-2400 cals a day. I think i have decent form when it comes to stuff like I'm not ego lifting or using momentum and i usually do feel mainly a chest pump and lat pump when i do bench and pull ups respectively. Should i do more sets, instead of 2x to failure, 6-8 reps? And i take creatine and preworkout and get enough fast digesting carbs from cream of rice 40g 1 hour before workout and orange juice during.

I think i'm around 16% bodyfat, like i have a visible ab outline for the most part. Can I send a picture of my physique here?

Also i dont know why i typed out 25g aromasin.

I meant to do 12.5g aromasin E3D, so
Test e 500mg per week
Last 6 weeks Anavar 25mg ED
Hcg 250iu eod

12.5g Aromasin e3d if needed
Nolvadex 20mg EDif flare up

Yes post pics of your physique

 

[Soscircle]

Yes post pics of your physique

My physique's pretty shit for a year of consistently working out i think

 

[Battousai]

So am i just fucked? I don't really think i could fix anything except maybe get leaner, I already track calories on cronometer and hit like 150-160g protein, 23g carb and 70g fat, and my sleep is pretty good. I train pretty hard and track my workouts on the strong app and do 2 sets with 2 warmups UL, usually 6x a week, 3 upper 3 lower. Are my genetics just horrible?

My friend told me to run that cycle but i did a bit more research and I'd probably do
20 weeks
Test E 500mg/week
Hcg 250iu EOD
Last 6 weeks anavar 25mg ED

25g Aromasin EOD only if needed due to test:est balance Nolvadex 20mg ED 2 weeks if I get a crazy flare up or gyno.

But I probably wont do anything because besides my friends everyone here says im a idiot for considering doing a cycle at my age and weight

Your diet is shit, you should probably start there

 

[Phill]

Just so you know, 99.99% of the people on this forum started out saying, “Just one cycle. I’ll come off and recover.”

Ten years later, we’re still all here, doing “just one more cycle” at a time, or mostly cruise and blast, TRT, and everything in between.

Bottom line, my friend, once you get started, don’t fool yourself into thinking you’ll be able to walk away that easily, or without paying a price.

PS:
PCT is the hardest part.

 

[Big_Jimmy434]

Are logs on a different forum? Like a whole different website? I searched up log on this forum and nothing came up

Look on the main page Under AAS zone. "Sponsored and Unsponsored Logs"

 

[Halfi]

Are logs on a different forum? Like a whole different website? I searched up log on this forum and nothing came up

Negative there under the sponsored and unsponsored logs on the main page. There a few solid ones on there people logging what there eating meal to meal. There training etc.

This is the link to that part of the forum

Sponsored & Unsponsored Logs

Record your personal journals here. Start a thread, and enter your daily and/or weekly progress.

www.anabolicsteroidforums.com

 

[YeahYou808]

Dude typed all that to go on TRT

 

[BigManT]

Just so you know, 99.99% of the people on this forum started out saying, “Just one cycle. I’ll come off and recover.”

Ten years later, we’re still all here, doing “just one more cycle” at a time, or mostly cruise and blast, TRT, and everything in between.

Bottom line, my friend, once you get started, don’t fool yourself into thinking you’ll be able to walk away that easily, or without paying a price.

PS:
PCT is the hardest part.

This is the biggest thing. It’s never a one and done. It’s a lifetime commitment.

 

[Cypher]

Hes not going to get far with a sub 500ng/dl. That is a godawful level for a 20 year old

Very true, but he's at an age where making some lifestyle adjustments and getting his diet dialed in could go a long way. Like you mentioned, diet could be a major factor here, and the chances of improving those numbers through some basic changes are pretty good... as to comparatively, the older you get, the harder it becomes to bring those numbers back up naturally.

His DHEA and TSH are both looking good, and with his SHBG sitting at 21, I'd suspect his other thyroid markers are probably in a decent range as well.

I doubt we're dealing with something like hypopituitarism or a prolactinoma, especially with his testosterone still sitting toward the higher end of the low range.

It could be something as simple as correcting a micronutrient or mineral deficiency. I'd look at getting magnesium, D3/K2, zinc, and selenium dialed in as well.

I'm also curious where his cortisol is sitting.

Let's say TRT is something he ultimately needs, but the bigger question is whether he's ready to commit to it for the long haul rather than treating it like another cycle. He's still a young guy, and while his numbers may be low for his age, this whole low-T issue seems to be becoming more and more increasingly common among younger men.

I'm guessing but he's maybe burning the candle at both ends and not getting enough sleep and food.

 

[Soscircle]

Your diet is shit, you should probably start there

Can you point me to the right direction for diet? Because i got my maintenance calories from youtube and a online calculator and same for my macros

 

[elit3keraed]

Can you point me to the right direction for diet? Because i got my maintenance calories from youtube and a online calculator and same for my macros

What sort of food sources are your macros coming from?


Also what is your 25 hydroxy vitamin d levels at?

 

[Soscircle]

What sort of food sources are your macros coming from?


Also what is your 25 hydroxy vitamin d levels at?

I usually eat eggs, egg whites for breakfast. Sweet potatoes +frozen veggies + skineless boneless chicken thighs for lunch and dinner, and fairlife milk + whey protein as a protein shake.

My meals usually look like 150g chicken thighs, 240g sweet potatoes with 150g frozen veggies.

I get some walmart nonfat greek yogurt for a snack. I've been pretty much eating this for the last year, i cut out processed food and like a lot of junk food for the most part in the last year, i used to eat a lot of it and i stopped

 

[Knarfster]

So am i just fucked? I don't really think i could fix anything except maybe get leaner, I already track calories on cronometer and hit like 150-160g protein, 23g carb and 70g fat, and my sleep is pretty good. I train pretty hard and track my workouts on the strong app and do 2 sets with 2 warmups UL, usually 6x a week, 3 upper 3 lower. Are my genetics just horrible?

My friend told me to run that cycle but i did a bit more research and I'd probably do
20 weeks
Test E 500mg/week
Hcg 250iu EOD
Last 6 weeks anavar 25mg ED

25g Aromasin EOD only if needed due to test:est balance Nolvadex 20mg ED 2 weeks if I get a crazy flare up or gyno.

But I probably wont do anything because besides my friends everyone here says im a idiot for considering doing a cycle at my age and weight

You need way more Protein, and carbs are not bad. You need them for energy. You can't grow if you don't eat, period

 

[Soscircle]

You need way more Protein, and carbs are not bad. You need them for energy. You can't grow if you don't eat, period

Oh, i thought after 1g protein per lb it was diminishing returns. Should i eat like 200? And like just split rest with carbs and fat?

 

[Battousai]

Can you point me to the right direction for diet? Because i got my maintenance calories from youtube and a online calculator and same for my macros

Your metabolism should be firing at your age. Get 1g of protein per lb of lean bodyweight MINIMUM then fill the rest of your calories with carbs. I eat 3200 calories a day just in maintenance, thats just counting carbs and protein, not fat. Your protein sources should be as lean as possible, dont eat lots of saturated fat. Get sone fiber rich whole foods but also starchy carbs like rice and potatoes for glycogyn storage

 

[Battousai]

Oh, i thought after 1g protein per lb it was diminishing returns. Should i eat like 200? And like just split rest with carbs and fat?

Aim for 200g protein and you should be eating a lot of carbs. White rice is a staple for most, add some fruit, veggies, and oats for micro nutrients and fiber. Shoot for at least 300g carbs, 200g protein and 300g carbs will at least get you to a 2000 calorie diet.

Make sure you're doing your cardio

 

[elit3keraed]

Oh, i thought after 1g protein per lb it was diminishing returns. Should i eat like 200? And like just split rest with carbs and fat?

Diminishing returns doesn’t mean it’s a waste. It just means that you aren’t getting a linear return.

If 75% of hypertrophy is caused in 3 sets. and 100% growth occurred in 7 total sets, then after 3 sets you get diminishing returns.

Would you really say “I would rather gain 15lbs of muscle this year and only do 3 sets at a time than gain 20lbs and do 7 sets at a time”?

Now maybe if you were eating 3g of protein per lb of bodyweight and it was causing you to be unable to train at a solid intensity because you weren’t getting any carbs then sure. But 200g of protein isn’t all that extreme and if it helps you eke out an extra pound or 2 or 3 then why not?