The 19-Nor Series – Part 1 – An Introduction to Nandrolone Decanoate and Phenylpropionate

[19NorFan]

Personal Intro

Hello everyone, my name’s Benjamin aka 19norfan, I’ve been on the forum for a few years now but finally started make posts within the last 4 months or so here. The topic of nandrolone comes up quite often and having a good bit of experience with it, I thought to create a series of threads on here highlighting some of my experiences with it, managing sides, enhancing its use and any other topic that comes up along the way.

First, to give you some personal history - I got on TRT in the summer of 2020 at 30 years of age. Immediately, just training at home with dumbbells, I got a very quick growth response. This would spark my “fitness journey” that has led me to where I am today. Prior to TRT, I did go to the gym, still had a decent physique but those enhanced gains were something special and it’s been a life changer. Since then, I’ve quit all alcohol and any other habit that I felt detracted me from being 100% in life. My entire life is optimized for fitness and it would not be this way without gear. Despite what we are told about AAS, I am of the belief that I am in much better health now, 6 years later than I would have been had I stayed a natural.

I was on doses of test cypionate of between 150-200mg per week until the winter of 2021. That winter, I added nandrolone to my trt+ protocol and again, got a very noticeable growth spur just from adding 100mg/week. It really enhanced my mood too, mentally it just gave me very strong focus and confidence. Fast forward to the fall of 2023, I would start B&C’ing officially and here I am today, about 2 weeks out from my first NPC show, which I cover in my 2026 Contest Prep Log.

That’s my background with AAS use. The remainder of this post will be specific to my experience with nandrolone. Please note, none of this is advice to use nandrolone or to not use it; this is merely one anecdotal experience and you should treat these posts as primarily for entertainment purposes.

Dosing Protocols and Combinations
Nandrolone is best used as either a base with a secondary dht derivative anabolic or as an ancillary anabolic alongside a testosterone base. I am not a fan of using nandrolone as a secondary anabolic – example: 500mg test 500mg nandrolone – because it is very difficult to control side effects, particular those modulated by estrogen and prolactin, when it is run proportionate to testosterone. A couple of dosing protocols that I do like (weekly doses):

700mg NPP + 300mg Primobolan + 35mg Test Prop or Ace
This cycle has an NPP base, which provides fullness and anabolism and Primobolan as a secondary anabolic, to counter nandrolone’s water retentive properties. The test prop/ace is for estrogen. Note that this will not work for estrogen if you are an individual to whom Primobolan suppresses aromatase activity. This can also be run 700mg NPP + 300mg Masteron, which is my favorite summertime cycle. Great for mood and libido, and you don’t really feel the cycle considering it's 1 gram cycle. This has minimal impact on bloodwork in my experience. Nandrolone is in my experience the mildest steroid when it comes to impact on bloodwork, particularly lipids and even more specifically, HDL suppression (when compared to DHT derivatives).


1,250mg Nandrolone Decanoate + 262.5 IU HCG
This cycle has a nandrolone decanoate base with HCG taken at a dose of 75 IU EOD to provide estrogen. The 75 IU EOD is not set in stone. This is the dose that I need to take to keep my estrogen at 80 – 100 pg/ml range, alongside 1 – 1.5 grams of nandrolone decanoate per week. Although 80 – 100 pg/ml is “outside of the reference range,” this is done intentionally. The 10-40pg/ml reference range often used, is a population derived, laboratory reference interval; not necessarily a recommended therapeutic target. Additionally, it is based on individuals with natural androgen levels, not those enhanced. Therefore, I can conclude that E2 levels should be elevated relative to the natural reference range, if you are on AAS, to counteract the elevated androgenicity. For me personally, on 1g+/week of gear, I feel, perform and look better with slightly “elevated” e2, in that 80+ range. If you are not able to tune in your e2 on nandrolone with hcg, you may use test prop or ace instead. On a 1.25g/week nandrolone cycle, I am most likely running this for 16+ weeks, so I prefer HCG over test for the e2 because it is less impactful on blood work. Even 35-70mgs of test prop per week will suppress HDL and raise hematocrit. If I really want minimal impact on lipids and cbc panel, I’ll go with HCG instead. A secondary benefit to using HCG is that it preserves some testicular function, which can be especially important with a compound as suppressive as nandrolone. This is my favorite way to structure an off season nandrolone based cycle. I would describe it as all gains, no feels. You get a ton of anabolism and literally no feels. You don’t feel aggression – due to the lack of androgenicity – in the gym, and outside of the gym you will also feel a little bit blank but it’s more of an elevated confident blank than anhedonia blank. I’ll go further on this when we get into managing mental sides.

400mg Test D + 400mg Nandrolone D + 800mg Boldenone U
Although I said I’m not a fan of using it as a secondary anabolic, if I did use it that way, this is the way that I would use it. 800mg boldenone may seem aggressive for a 400mg test base and for you, it certainly may be. In my experience, nandrolone amplifies testosterone’s propensity towards aromatization. 400 test + 400 nandrolone can cause higher e2 than a >800 test dose alone. You may very well need a near gram dose of boldenone to keep E2 in range. But again, this is not set in stone, it’s just to provide a framework. You can trial/error it with E2 labs. Done correctly, this is a very capable growth phase cycle with good anabolism not a ton of androgenicity. I would be careful to track blood pressure, kidney health, Hematocrit/RBC… these are the areas where nandrolone + eq are most sensitive.

Dosing Protocol Reasons & Considerations

- To mitigate some of the long term health effects of AAS use, I prioritize using minimally androgenic compounds during growth phases. Growth phases are my longest periods of elevated AAS use and when the most damage may occur. So I want all of the gains from AAS, without the androgenicity. Androgenicity enlarges our prostate, gives us acne, causes our hair to shed, makes our skin look old and so on. A large set of side effects can be mitigated just by emphasizing less androgenic compounds. That's the main reason I like nandrolone, it is the least androgenic of the AAS and one of the most anabolic.

- To mitigate some of the short term side effects, particularly those e2 correlated, nandrolone is best run as the base with short ester test or HCG, in limited quantities, for e2 conversion. This does not mean that you can be on a 300mg/week test cycle today and just switch over to nandrolone tomorrow and expect not to have e2 sides. The long ester test must first clear your system and then nandrolone can be introduced. This is why I prefer short ester test when cruising or bridging; with test ace, I can just wait a few days for it to completely clear and not have to lose weeks in the transition.

- If exogenous testosterone is used for estrogen, it should be short ester, either prop or ace. If instead you use for example, 10mg/day of cypionate, your steady state accumulation will be about 90-95mgs. With 10mg/day of test ace, your steady state accumulation will be about 15-20mgs. The idea behind using short ester test is that the steady state accumulation is low and clearance time is high. This allows you to more predictably gauge your e2. Estradiol production tracks estrogen exposure x aromatase activity, so higher average concentrations generally create more e2 substrate. I find E2 to also be more consistent day over day with this method; there's a lower ceiling for it vs long ester.

I will stop there and continue this section tomorrow. And moving forward, I'll release these posts a few paragraphs at a time, to allow for conversation.

 

[rawbuilt]

deca is king

 

[Knarfster]

I never thought of a cycle with Nandralone as the star. The problem for me would be 35mg of Test Prop/week would leave me with crazy low E2. 40 mg eod only puts me at 17.5 E2 (w/1,247.6 Total test)

 

[Vision]

I never thought of a cycle with Nandralone as the star. The problem for me would be 35mg of Test Prop/week would leave me with crazy low E2. 40 mg eod only puts me at 17.5 E2 (w/1,247.6 Total test)

The mental degradation and nuro-damage has me wincing. Deca as the base is a recipe for disaster.

 

[19NorFan]

I never thought of a cycle with Nandralone as the star. The problem for me would be 35mg of Test Prop/week would leave me with crazy low E2. 40 mg eod only puts me at 17.5 E2 (w/1,247.6 Total test)

Then you would use a dose of test prop that would bring your E2 levels to a sufficient range.

The mental degradation and nuro-damage has me wincing. Deca as the base is a recipe for disaster.

It's not for everyone.

The studies examining nandrolone supposed neurotoxicity were conducted without an estrogen base on lab rats (sometimes castrated). It's the presence of high androgens, in the absence of sufficient estrogen that likely causes that neurotoxicity, not necessarily the nandrolone itself. Testosterone becomes neurotoxic too, in the absence of estrogen.

We don't know how nandrolone affects CNS in the presence of sufficient e2, in a clinical setting. All of the studies were conducted using nandrolone monotherapy, except for 1 study examining postmenopausal osteoporosis.

 

[Vision]

Then you would use a dose of test prop that would bring your E2 levels to a sufficient range.



It's not for everyone.

The studies examining nandrolone supposed neurotoxicity were conducted without an estrogen base on lab rats (sometimes castrated). It's the presence of high androgens, in the absence of sufficient estrogen that likely causes that neurotoxicity, not necessarily the nandrolone itself. Testosterone becomes neurotoxic too, in the absence of estrogen.

We don't know how nandrolone affects CNS in the presence of sufficient e2, in a clinical setting. All of the studies were conducted using nandrolone monotherapy, except for 1 study examining postmenopausal osteoporosis.

Not entirely sure what you're quoting, or why you are jumping to conclusions with taking a wild guess at what I'm referencing?
Slow down silly goose, don't act like a goofy gander by assuming.

Stick with human research, not sure why you're reading about rats.

Here - Human studies

 

[19NorFan]

Not entirely sure what you're quoting, or why you are jumping to conclusions with taking a wild guess at what I'm referencing?
Slow down silly goose, don't act like a goofy gander by assuming.

Stick with human research, not sure why you're reading about rats.

Here - Human studies

Yeah I wonder why anyone would assume that you were referencing neurotoxicity with this comment:

The mental degradation and nuro-damage has me wincing. Deca as the base is a recipe for disaster.

 

[Knarfster]

Not entirely sure what you're quoting, or why you are jumping to conclusions with taking a wild guess at what I'm referencing?
Slow down silly goose, don't act like a goofy gander by assuming.

Stick with human research, not sure why you're reading about rats.

Here - Human studies

This ia a review/hypothesis paper, not a clinical trial. Its central argument is that long-term supraphysiologic anabolic-androgenic steroid (AAS) use may increase the risk of Alzheimer’s disease and related dementias later in life.

The Authors state "We see biological mechanisms and brain/cognitive abnormalities that resemble known dementia risk factors, so we should investigate whether these people develop dementia at unusually high rates as they age."

 

[909mario]

Personal Intro

Hello everyone, my name’s Benjamin aka 19norfan, I’ve been on the forum for a few years now but finally started make posts within the last 4 months or so here. The topic of nandrolone comes up quite often and having a good bit of experience with it, I thought to create a series of threads on here highlighting some of my experiences with it, managing sides, enhancing its use and any other topic that comes up along the way.

First, to give you some personal history - I got on TRT in the summer of 2020 at 30 years of age. Immediately, just training at home with dumbbells, I got a very quick growth response. This would spark my “fitness journey” that has led me to where I am today. Prior to TRT, I did go to the gym, still had a decent physique but those enhanced gains were something special and it’s been a life changer. Since then, I’ve quit all alcohol and any other habit that I felt detracted me from being 100% in life. My entire life is optimized for fitness and it would not be this way without gear. Despite what we are told about AAS, I am of the belief that I am in much better health now, 6 years later than I would have been had I stayed a natural.

I was on doses of test cypionate of between 150-200mg per week until the winter of 2021. That winter, I added nandrolone to my trt+ protocol and again, got a very noticeable growth spur just from adding 100mg/week. It really enhanced my mood too, mentally it just gave me very strong focus and confidence. Fast forward to the fall of 2023, I would start B&C’ing officially and here I am today, about 2 weeks out from my first NPC show, which I cover in my 2026 Contest Prep Log.

That’s my background with AAS use. The remainder of this post will be specific to my experience with nandrolone. Please note, none of this is advice to use nandrolone or to not use it; this is merely one anecdotal experience and you should treat these posts as primarily for entertainment purposes.

Dosing Protocols and Combinations
Nandrolone is best used as either a base with a secondary dht derivative anabolic or as an ancillary anabolic alongside a testosterone base. I am not a fan of using nandrolone as a secondary anabolic – example: 500mg test 500mg nandrolone – because it is very difficult to control side effects, particular those modulated by estrogen and prolactin, when it is run proportionate to testosterone. A couple of dosing protocols that I do like (weekly doses):

700mg NPP + 300mg Primobolan + 35mg Test Prop or Ace
This cycle has an NPP base, which provides fullness and anabolism and Primobolan as a secondary anabolic, to counter nandrolone’s water retentive properties. The test prop/ace is for estrogen. Note that this will not work for estrogen if you are an individual to whom Primobolan suppresses aromatase activity. This can also be run 700mg NPP + 300mg Masteron, which is my favorite summertime cycle. Great for mood and libido, and you don’t really feel the cycle considering it's 1 gram cycle. This has minimal impact on bloodwork in my experience. Nandrolone is in my experience the mildest steroid when it comes to impact on bloodwork, particularly lipids and even more specifically, HDL suppression (when compared to DHT derivatives).


1,250mg Nandrolone Decanoate + 262.5 IU HCG
This cycle has a nandrolone decanoate base with HCG taken at a dose of 75 IU EOD to provide estrogen. The 75 IU EOD is not set in stone. This is the dose that I need to take to keep my estrogen at 80 – 100 pg/ml range, alongside 1 – 1.5 grams of nandrolone decanoate per week. Although 80 – 100 pg/ml is “outside of the reference range,” this is done intentionally. The 10-40pg/ml reference range often used, is a population derived, laboratory reference interval; not necessarily a recommended therapeutic target. Additionally, it is based on individuals with natural androgen levels, not those enhanced. Therefore, I can conclude that E2 levels should be elevated relative to the natural reference range, if you are on AAS, to counteract the elevated androgenicity. For me personally, on 1g+/week of gear, I feel, perform and look better with slightly “elevated” e2, in that 80+ range. If you are not able to tune in your e2 on nandrolone with hcg, you may use test prop or ace instead. On a 1.25g/week nandrolone cycle, I am most likely running this for 16+ weeks, so I prefer HCG over test for the e2 because it is less impactful on blood work. Even 35-70mgs of test prop per week will suppress HDL and raise hematocrit. If I really want minimal impact on lipids and cbc panel, I’ll go with HCG instead. A secondary benefit to using HCG is that it preserves some testicular function, which can be especially important with a compound as suppressive as nandrolone. This is my favorite way to structure an off season nandrolone based cycle. I would describe it as all gains, no feels. You get a ton of anabolism and literally no feels. You don’t feel aggression – due to the lack of androgenicity – in the gym, and outside of the gym you will also feel a little bit blank but it’s more of an elevated confident blank than anhedonia blank. I’ll go further on this when we get into managing mental sides.

400mg Test D + 400mg Nandrolone D + 800mg Boldenone U
Although I said I’m not a fan of using it as a secondary anabolic, if I did use it that way, this is the way that I would use it. 800mg boldenone may seem aggressive for a 400mg test base and for you, it certainly may be. In my experience, nandrolone amplifies testosterone’s propensity towards aromatization. 400 test + 400 nandrolone can cause higher e2 than a >800 test dose alone. You may very well need a near gram dose of boldenone to keep E2 in range. But again, this is not set in stone, it’s just to provide a framework. You can trial/error it with E2 labs. Done correctly, this is a very capable growth phase cycle with good anabolism not a ton of androgenicity. I would be careful to track blood pressure, kidney health, Hematocrit/RBC… these are the areas where nandrolone + eq are most sensitive.

Dosing Protocol Reasons & Considerations

- To mitigate some of the long term health effects of AAS use, I prioritize using minimally androgenic compounds during growth phases. Growth phases are my longest periods of elevated AAS use and when the most damage may occur. So I want all of the gains from AAS, without the androgenicity. Androgenicity enlarges our prostate, gives us acne, causes our hair to shed, makes our skin look old and so on. A large set of side effects can be mitigated just by emphasizing less androgenic compounds. That's the main reason I like nandrolone, it is the least androgenic of the AAS and one of the most anabolic.

- To mitigate some of the short term side effects, particularly those e2 correlated, nandrolone is best run as the base with short ester test or HCG, in limited quantities, for e2 conversion. This does not mean that you can be on a 300mg/week test cycle today and just switch over to nandrolone tomorrow and expect not to have e2 sides. The long ester test must first clear your system and then nandrolone can be introduced. This is why I prefer short ester test when cruising or bridging; with test ace, I can just wait a few days for it to completely clear and not have to lose weeks in the transition.

- If exogenous testosterone is used for estrogen, it should be short ester, either prop or ace. If instead you use for example, 10mg/day of cypionate, your steady state accumulation will be about 90-95mgs. With 10mg/day of test ace, your steady state accumulation will be about 15-20mgs. The idea behind using short ester test is that the steady state accumulation is low and clearance time is high. This allows you to more predictably gauge your e2. Estradiol production tracks estrogen exposure x aromatase activity, so higher average concentrations generally create more e2 substrate. I find E2 to also be more consistent day over day with this method; there's a lower ceiling for it vs long ester.

I will stop there and continue this section tomorrow. And moving forward, I'll release these posts a few paragraphs at a time, to allow for conversation

Thanks for posting, I look forward to reading part 2. Very interesting!

 

[19NorFan]

This ia a review/hypothesis paper, not a clinical trial. Its central argument is that long-term supraphysiologic anabolic-androgenic steroid (AAS) use may increase the risk of Alzheimer’s disease and related dementias later in life.

The Authors state "We see biological mechanisms and brain/cognitive abnormalities that resemble known dementia risk factors, so we should investigate whether these people develop dementia at unusually high rates as they age."

In addition to that, there are a few things I'd like to note from that paper:

- The paper mentions experimental work in which NAC prevented or attenuated some oxidative/neurotoxic affects associated with supraphysiologic androgen exposure. I will address NAC as an ancillary to 19-nors later on in this series. It is a supplement that I megadose, I currently take 6 grams of NAC every other day, alongside a megadose of glycine. From my experience, megadosing NAC mutes all tren aggression and mental sides, up to a dose of about 100mg/day of trenbolone acetate. I have not tried going any higher and do not see a benefit beyond about 50-75mg/day.

- The paper also mentions that brain imaging/MRS studies found evidence to suggest altered glutamate metabolism. NAC works by regulating glutamate signaling. So there is some overlap here in the findings, between NAC, AAS use, glutamate and my anecdotal experience of NAC attenuating 19nor mental sides. I will go more into NAC later on in this series, and also pairing it with a low dose GLP to amplify some of it's mental health benefits.

- The elevated dementia/alzheimer's risk - if real - is more likely due to a suboptimal androgen/estrogen balance, a deficiency of estrogen or some downstream side effect of AAS. For example, if you use AAS and develop sleep apnea, that can cause cardiac issues. I'm of the belief that the AAS should not be attributed to the cardiac issues in this situation and that the it's the end user's responsibility to manage these readily manageable side effects.

 

[Cypher]

I’m done with 19-nors. The GLT-1/EAAT2, glutamate, and neurotoxicity stuff is enough for me to say fuck it... the risk/reward just isn’t there anymore.

Astrocyte health matters. If they're already compromised, you're potentially starting with less neurological resilience.

 

[Slowsol]

In addition to that, there are a few things I'd like to note from that paper:

- The paper mentions experimental work in which NAC prevented or attenuated some oxidative/neurotoxic affects associated with supraphysiologic androgen exposure. I will address NAC as an ancillary to 19-nors later on in this series. It is a supplement that I megadose, I currently take 6 grams of NAC every other day, alongside a megadose of glycine. From my experience, megadosing NAC mutes all tren aggression and mental sides, up to a dose of about 100mg/day of trenbolone acetate. I have not tried going any higher and do not see a benefit beyond about 50-75mg/day.

- The paper also mentions that brain imaging/MRS studies found evidence to suggest altered glutamate metabolism. NAC works by regulating glutamate signaling. So there is some overlap here in the findings, between NAC, AAS use, glutamate and my anecdotal experience of NAC attenuating 19nor mental sides. I will go more into NAC later on in this series, and also pairing it with a low dose GLP to amplify some of it's mental health benefits.

- The elevated dementia/alzheimer's risk - if real - is more likely due to a suboptimal androgen/estrogen balance, a deficiency of estrogen or some downstream side effect of AAS. For example, if you use AAS and develop sleep apnea, that can cause cardiac issues. I'm of the belief that the AAS should not be attributed to the cardiac issues in this situation and that the it's the end user's responsibility to manage these readily manageable side effects.

Interested to hear more about NAC as I just added a normal dose to my daily supplements

 

[Meetketchup]

It's awesome you have experimented and found what works for you. Also, massive respect for blatantly saying this is not advice, anecdotal and for entertainment purposes. I say that because all sorts of variations of the cycles you outlined have been tried over the last 3-4 decades and unfortunately "most" people will not respond well with them. Just top many factors to control leading to sides. That's why there is no perfect cycle. The OP does what works for him, AND he has a great physique. Super interesting. I just say to those following along that these cycles or variations of are probably not for you, especially if a beginner to intermediate. Also, some of the assumptions above are just that and disagree with a good amount of it, but who the hell cares. It's his party and I'm interested in following along.

God luck in your show in a couple of weeks. You are going to kill it based on the pics I've seen. You have a bright future competing.

 

[FearsomeCOR]

I’m done with 19-nors. The GLT-1/EAAT2, glutamate, and neurotoxicity stuff is enough for me to say fuck it... the risk/reward just isn’t there anymore.

Astrocyte health matters. If they're already compromised, you're potentially starting with less neurological resilience.

A lot of the neurotoxicity data is in an environment void of estrogen, which is important to remember imo

 

[unseen423]

This is awesome, so much interesting info here. Will be following along, and would love to see more of these “deep dives” on other compounds!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[19NorFan]

It's awesome you have experimented and found what works for you. Also, massive respect for blatantly saying this is not advice, anecdotal and for entertainment purposes. I say that because all sorts of variations of the cycles you outlined have been tried over the last 3-4 decades and unfortunately "most" people will not respond well with them. Just top many factors to control leading to sides. That's why there is no perfect cycle. The OP does what works for him, AND he has a great physique. Super interesting. I just say to those following along that these cycles or variations of are probably not for you, especially if a beginner to intermediate. Also, some of the assumptions above are just that and disagree with a good amount of it, but who the hell cares. It's his party and I'm interested in following along.

God luck in your show in a couple of weeks. You are going to kill it based on the pics I've seen. You have a bright future competing.

Exactly and to emphasize that, those of you reading this thread could do everything "correctly" and nandrolone will still not work for you. In the same way my threshold for DHTs is relatively low, I don't try to force myself to use them outside of my tolerable range. The same applies to training methodology - some people cannot handle high frequency training, others need it to see growth.

This is awesome, so much interesting info here. Will be following along, and would love to see more of these “deep dives” on other compounds!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The next thread will be on trenbolone. I'll continue to add to this thread later on too as things develop.

 

[19NorFan]

DHT vs. DHN

One of the reasons I prefer nandrolone over DHT based compounds is its relatively low androgenicity. I know I’ve said that word about a hundred times already but it’s a very important component to AAS use and here’s why: When we talk about the health burden of AAS, most of the attention is placed on things like lipids, hematocrit, blood pressure and liver enzymes, but androgenicity itself can also contribute to adverse effects. Strong androgen receptor signaling in tissues outside of the skeletal muscle can promote organ remodeling, prostate growth, accelerate androgenic alopecia, it ages the skin and generally increases the “wear and tear” associated with a highly androgenic environment.

This is one area where nandrolone may offer an advantage. To be clear, I am not suggesting that nandrolone is necessarily safer than a DHT alternative, this will specifically address the portion of side effects that are driven by androgenic signaling itself. Nandrolone is unusual because 5ar converts it into DHN, a weaker androgen than nandrolone itself. Testosterone behaves inversely; 5ar converts it to DHT, a more androgenic, less anabolic compound. As a result, tissue with substantial 5ar activity can amplify test’s androgenicity while attenuating nandrolone’s.

If I am using relatively large doses of AAS over an extended growth phase, perhaps 1-2 grams for 16-24+ weeks, I consider that distinction meaningful. The goal of the cycle is to stimulate muscle growth through anabolism, I do not gain anything from the added androgenicity. In fact, the added androgenicity has the potential to shorten the growth phase, due to the aforementioned side effects.

Modulating Nandrolone’s Androgenicity with Finasteride

One thing I have experimented with is pairing NPP with finasteride, to see what would happen if I could increase its androgenicity. Finasteride is a 5ar inhibitor, primarily used to treat androgenic alopecia. When pairing finasteride with testosterone, it inhibits its conversion to DHT, making it less androgenic. With nandrolone, it has the inverse effect. It prevents nandrolone from reducing to DHN, making it a more androgenic and potentially more anabolic compound.

I used 1.25mg/day (5mg tab split in 4) of finasteride alongside 100mg/day NPP. It definitely changed how the drug felt and my appearance. I would best describe NPP + fin as tren-lite. It gave me some of the aggression and grandiose confidence of tren but without all of the cuts and hardness of tren. It made me noticeably stronger than NPP by itself but I can’t say if it was more or less anabolic (it was only a few weeks long cycle). Due to a lack of safety data in combining these two drugs, I no longer go that route. But it goes to show that you can modulate it to be a more androgenic compound if needed.

1 Gram of Test vs. 1 Gram of Nandrolone

I do use testosterone and have experience with both long ester test, NPP and decanoate in doses >1g/week. Although I prefer to avoid using NPP in doses >700mg/week. Injecting a gram of NPP is a large volume of oil so when going over 700mg/week, I switch over to decanoate. Going over a gram a week also usually means it’s a 16+ week cycle, in which I’d use a long ester anyways.

Also separately, I do not think it’s a good idea to use high concentration oils. I prefer the traditional pharmaceutical concentrations these compounds were originally formulated around or eventually evolved into, such as 200mg/ml test cypionate. So, using a higher concentration NPP product wouldn’t be a viable workaround to the oil volume issue. Pushing more steroid into the same volume of oil often requires a more aggressive solvent system to keep it dissolved, which can increase inflammation. Among other issues with high concentration oils.

I would describe 1 gram of nandrolone decanoate per week as just working in the background, contributing to growth without much else going on. Mentally, it makes me very calm and blank, but confident and driven at the same time. Whereas in a natural state, my mind tends to race and overprocess information, nandrolone calms me down and makes more present. It takes about 8 weeks for you to really feel it in the gym, which is why a 16-24 week cycle is optimal IMO.

Once of the challenges you might think of when using nandrolone is its long half life. It does take quite some time for it to build up and clear out. It takes about 6-8 weeks for it to fully clear out. So what you can do, to have a more compact cycle and faster off load, is saturate and then taper off with NPP, alongside decanoate. For example, let’s say I want to do about a 24 week, 1 gram cycle, but don’t want to wait for a 6-8 week build up and then a 6-8 week offload/clear out period. Here’s what I would do:

Week 1: Inject 1g Decanoate + 600mg NPP

Week 2: Inject 1g Decanoate + 450mg NPP

Week 3: Inject 1g Decanoate + 300mg NPP

Week 4: Inject 1g Decanoate + 150mg NPP

Week 5: Inject 1g Decanoate + 150mg NPP

Week 6 – 20: Inject 1g Decanoate NO NPP

Week 21: NO DECANOATE Inject 300mg NPP

Week 22: NO DECANOATE Inject 600mg NPP

Week 23: NO DECANOATE Inject 700mg NPP

Week 24: NO DECANOATE Inject 700mg NPP

Week 25: STOP CYCLE

EOW 26: By this point Decanoate residual is 4% and NPP is 17%

EOW 27: By this point both Decanoate and NPP residual is <1%

This reduces the onload to 1 week and offload to 3 weeks and then you can go right a health phase with test prop. The NPP dosages above are based on relative decanoate saturation and residual at the various weeks. Maintaining the above injection schedule will result in a 1 gram saturation after week 1, all the way through week 24.

I will continue this subsection (1g test v 1g nandrolone) tomorrow.

 

[909mario]

Personal Intro

Hello everyone, my name’s Benjamin aka 19norfan, I’ve been on the forum for a few years now but finally started make posts within the last 4 months or so here. The topic of nandrolone comes up quite often and having a good bit of experience with it, I thought to create a series of threads on here highlighting some of my experiences with it, managing sides, enhancing its use and any other topic that comes up along the way.

First, to give you some personal history - I got on TRT in the summer of 2020 at 30 years of age. Immediately, just training at home with dumbbells, I got a very quick growth response. This would spark my “fitness journey” that has led me to where I am today. Prior to TRT, I did go to the gym, still had a decent physique but those enhanced gains were something special and it’s been a life changer. Since then, I’ve quit all alcohol and any other habit that I felt detracted me from being 100% in life. My entire life is optimized for fitness and it would not be this way without gear. Despite what we are told about AAS, I am of the belief that I am in much better health now, 6 years later than I would have been had I stayed a natural.

I was on doses of test cypionate of between 150-200mg per week until the winter of 2021. That winter, I added nandrolone to my trt+ protocol and again, got a very noticeable growth spur just from adding 100mg/week. It really enhanced my mood too, mentally it just gave me very strong focus and confidence. Fast forward to the fall of 2023, I would start B&C’ing officially and here I am today, about 2 weeks out from my first NPC show, which I cover in my 2026 Contest Prep Log.

That’s my background with AAS use. The remainder of this post will be specific to my experience with nandrolone. Please note, none of this is advice to use nandrolone or to not use it; this is merely one anecdotal experience and you should treat these posts as primarily for entertainment purposes.

Dosing Protocols and Combinations
Nandrolone is best used as either a base with a secondary dht derivative anabolic or as an ancillary anabolic alongside a testosterone base. I am not a fan of using nandrolone as a secondary anabolic – example: 500mg test 500mg nandrolone – because it is very difficult to control side effects, particular those modulated by estrogen and prolactin, when it is run proportionate to testosterone. A couple of dosing protocols that I do like (weekly doses):

700mg NPP + 300mg Primobolan + 35mg Test Prop or Ace
This cycle has an NPP base, which provides fullness and anabolism and Primobolan as a secondary anabolic, to counter nandrolone’s water retentive properties. The test prop/ace is for estrogen. Note that this will not work for estrogen if you are an individual to whom Primobolan suppresses aromatase activity. This can also be run 700mg NPP + 300mg Masteron, which is my favorite summertime cycle. Great for mood and libido, and you don’t really feel the cycle considering it's 1 gram cycle. This has minimal impact on bloodwork in my experience. Nandrolone is in my experience the mildest steroid when it comes to impact on bloodwork, particularly lipids and even more specifically, HDL suppression (when compared to DHT derivatives).


1,250mg Nandrolone Decanoate + 262.5 IU HCG
This cycle has a nandrolone decanoate base with HCG taken at a dose of 75 IU EOD to provide estrogen. The 75 IU EOD is not set in stone. This is the dose that I need to take to keep my estrogen at 80 – 100 pg/ml range, alongside 1 – 1.5 grams of nandrolone decanoate per week. Although 80 – 100 pg/ml is “outside of the reference range,” this is done intentionally. The 10-40pg/ml reference range often used, is a population derived, laboratory reference interval; not necessarily a recommended therapeutic target. Additionally, it is based on individuals with natural androgen levels, not those enhanced. Therefore, I can conclude that E2 levels should be elevated relative to the natural reference range, if you are on AAS, to counteract the elevated androgenicity. For me personally, on 1g+/week of gear, I feel, perform and look better with slightly “elevated” e2, in that 80+ range. If you are not able to tune in your e2 on nandrolone with hcg, you may use test prop or ace instead. On a 1.25g/week nandrolone cycle, I am most likely running this for 16+ weeks, so I prefer HCG over test for the e2 because it is less impactful on blood work. Even 35-70mgs of test prop per week will suppress HDL and raise hematocrit. If I really want minimal impact on lipids and cbc panel, I’ll go with HCG instead. A secondary benefit to using HCG is that it preserves some testicular function, which can be especially important with a compound as suppressive as nandrolone. This is my favorite way to structure an off season nandrolone based cycle. I would describe it as all gains, no feels. You get a ton of anabolism and literally no feels. You don’t feel aggression – due to the lack of androgenicity – in the gym, and outside of the gym you will also feel a little bit blank but it’s more of an elevated confident blank than anhedonia blank. I’ll go further on this when we get into managing mental sides.

400mg Test D + 400mg Nandrolone D + 800mg Boldenone U
Although I said I’m not a fan of using it as a secondary anabolic, if I did use it that way, this is the way that I would use it. 800mg boldenone may seem aggressive for a 400mg test base and for you, it certainly may be. In my experience, nandrolone amplifies testosterone’s propensity towards aromatization. 400 test + 400 nandrolone can cause higher e2 than a >800 test dose alone. You may very well need a near gram dose of boldenone to keep E2 in range. But again, this is not set in stone, it’s just to provide a framework. You can trial/error it with E2 labs. Done correctly, this is a very capable growth phase cycle with good anabolism not a ton of androgenicity. I would be careful to track blood pressure, kidney health, Hematocrit/RBC… these are the areas where nandrolone + eq are most sensitive.

Dosing Protocol Reasons & Considerations

- To mitigate some of the long term health effects of AAS use, I prioritize using minimally androgenic compounds during growth phases. Growth phases are my longest periods of elevated AAS use and when the most damage may occur. So I want all of the gains from AAS, without the androgenicity. Androgenicity enlarges our prostate, gives us acne, causes our hair to shed, makes our skin look old and so on. A large set of side effects can be mitigated just by emphasizing less androgenic compounds. That's the main reason I like nandrolone, it is the least androgenic of the AAS and one of the most anabolic.

- To mitigate some of the short term side effects, particularly those e2 correlated, nandrolone is best run as the base with short ester test or HCG, in limited quantities, for e2 conversion. This does not mean that you can be on a 300mg/week test cycle today and just switch over to nandrolone tomorrow and expect not to have e2 sides. The long ester test must first clear your system and then nandrolone can be introduced. This is why I prefer short ester test when cruising or bridging; with test ace, I can just wait a few days for it to completely clear and not have to lose weeks in the transition.

- If exogenous testosterone is used for estrogen, it should be short ester, either prop or ace. If instead you use for example, 10mg/day of cypionate, your steady state accumulation will be about 90-95mgs. With 10mg/day of test ace, your steady state accumulation will be about 15-20mgs. The idea behind using short ester test is that the steady state accumulation is low and clearance time is high. This allows you to more predictably gauge your e2. Estradiol production tracks estrogen exposure x aromatase activity, so higher average concentrations generally create more e2 substrate. I find E2 to also be more consistent day over day with this method; there's a lower ceiling for it vs long ester.

I will stop there and continue this section tomorrow. And moving forward, I'll release these posts a few paragraphs at a time, to allow for conversation.

You mentioned your summer time favorite cycle was running 700mg NPP + 300mg Masteron. Do you also run 35mg Test P with this cycle? Thank you. Good luck at your show.

 

[19NorFan]

You mentioned your summer time favorite cycle was running 700mg NPP + 300mg Masteron. Do you also run 35mg Test P with this cycle? Thank you. Good luck at your show.

Thank and yes, always need some addition source of estrogen with nandrolone, either test prop, ace, HCG or transdermal estrogen.

 

[jimbosmalls69]

DHT vs. DHN

One of the reasons I prefer nandrolone over DHT based compounds is its relatively low androgenicity. I know I’ve said that word about a hundred times already but it’s a very important component to AAS use and here’s why: When we talk about the health burden of AAS, most of the attention is placed on things like lipids, hematocrit, blood pressure and liver enzymes, but androgenicity itself can also contribute to adverse effects. Strong androgen receptor signaling in tissues outside of the skeletal muscle can promote organ remodeling, prostate growth, accelerate androgenic alopecia, it ages the skin and generally increases the “wear and tear” associated with a highly androgenic environment.

This is one area where nandrolone may offer an advantage. To be clear, I am not suggesting that nandrolone is necessarily safer than a DHT alternative, this will specifically address the portion of side effects that are driven by androgenic signaling itself. Nandrolone is unusual because 5ar converts it into DHN, a weaker androgen than nandrolone itself. Testosterone behaves inversely; 5ar converts it to DHT, a more androgenic, less anabolic compound. As a result, tissue with substantial 5ar activity can amplify test’s androgenicity while attenuating nandrolone’s.

If I am using relatively large doses of AAS over an extended growth phase, perhaps 1-2 grams for 16-24+ weeks, I consider that distinction meaningful. The goal of the cycle is to stimulate muscle growth through anabolism, I do not gain anything from the added androgenicity. In fact, the added androgenicity has the potential to shorten the growth phase, due to the aforementioned side effects.

Modulating Nandrolone’s Androgenicity with Finasteride

One thing I have experimented with is pairing NPP with finasteride, to see what would happen if I could increase its androgenicity. Finasteride is a 5ar inhibitor, primarily used to treat androgenic alopecia. When pairing finasteride with testosterone, it inhibits its conversion to DHT, making it less androgenic. With nandrolone, it has the inverse effect. It prevents nandrolone from reducing to DHN, making it a more androgenic and potentially more anabolic compound.

I used 1.25mg/day (5mg tab split in 4) of finasteride alongside 100mg/day NPP. It definitely changed how the drug felt and my appearance. I would best describe NPP + fin as tren-lite. It gave me some of the aggression and grandiose confidence of tren but without all of the cuts and hardness of tren. It made me noticeably stronger than NPP by itself but I can’t say if it was more or less anabolic (it was only a few weeks long cycle). Due to a lack of safety data in combining these two drugs, I no longer go that route. But it goes to show that you can modulate it to be a more androgenic compound if needed.

1 Gram of Test vs. 1 Gram of Nandrolone

I do use testosterone and have experience with both long ester test, NPP and decanoate in doses >1g/week. Although I prefer to avoid using NPP in doses >700mg/week. Injecting a gram of NPP is a large volume of oil so when going over 700mg/week, I switch over to decanoate. Going over a gram a week also usually means it’s a 16+ week cycle, in which I’d use a long ester anyways.

Also separately, I do not think it’s a good idea to use high concentration oils. I prefer the traditional pharmaceutical concentrations these compounds were originally formulated around or eventually evolved into, such as 200mg/ml test cypionate. So, using a higher concentration NPP product wouldn’t be a viable workaround to the oil volume issue. Pushing more steroid into the same volume of oil often requires a more aggressive solvent system to keep it dissolved, which can increase inflammation. Among other issues with high concentration oils.

I would describe 1 gram of nandrolone decanoate per week as just working in the background, contributing to growth without much else going on. Mentally, it makes me very calm and blank, but confident and driven at the same time. Whereas in a natural state, my mind tends to race and overprocess information, nandrolone calms me down and makes more present. It takes about 8 weeks for you to really feel it in the gym, which is why a 16-24 week cycle is optimal IMO.

Once of the challenges you might think of when using nandrolone is its long half life. It does take quite some time for it to build up and clear out. It takes about 6-8 weeks for it to fully clear out. So what you can do, to have a more compact cycle and faster off load, is saturate and then taper off with NPP, alongside decanoate. For example, let’s say I want to do about a 24 week, 1 gram cycle, but don’t want to wait for a 6-8 week build up and then a 6-8 week offload/clear out period. Here’s what I would do:

Week 1: Inject 1g Decanoate + 600mg NPP

Week 2: Inject 1g Decanoate + 450mg NPP

Week 3: Inject 1g Decanoate + 300mg NPP

Week 4: Inject 1g Decanoate + 150mg NPP

Week 5: Inject 1g Decanoate + 150mg NPP

Week 6 – 20: Inject 1g Decanoate NO NPP

Week 21: NO DECANOATE Inject 300mg NPP

Week 22: NO DECANOATE Inject 600mg NPP

Week 23: NO DECANOATE Inject 700mg NPP

Week 24: NO DECANOATE Inject 700mg NPP

Week 25: STOP CYCLE

EOW 26: By this point Decanoate residual is 4% and NPP is 17%

EOW 27: By this point both Decanoate and NPP residual is <1%

This reduces the onload to 1 week and offload to 3 weeks and then you can go right a health phase with test prop. The NPP dosages above are based on relative decanoate saturation and residual at the various weeks. Maintaining the above injection schedule will result in a 1 gram saturation after week 1, all the way through week 24.

I will continue this subsection (1g test v 1g nandrolone) tomorrow.

When you run the gram of nandrolone are you using the previously listed HCG protocol for estrogen? Very interested in doing a cycle like this but probably not at one gram I haven’t earned a cycle like that yet. Maybe 500-700mg

 

[19NorFan]

When you run the gram of nandrolone are you using the previously listed HCG protocol for estrogen? Very interested in doing a cycle like this but probably not at one gram I haven’t earned a cycle like that yet. Maybe 500-700mg

Yes, HCG or Testosterone Acetate. Propionate works too. If I had to make an educated guess, the majority of people would be better off using testosterone acetate as the aromatizable component alongside nandrolone, it would provide more predictable estradiol levels than relying on hcg.

When I do a 1+ gram nandrolone cycle with hcg, it means that I'm in a growth phase and every variable of my training, rest, diet, etc is controlled. It's a very hermit like existence, there's no going out and partying on weekends or deviating from my diet. I don't work a 9-5. There's not a whole lot of stress in my day to day. So this allows me to manipulate my estrogen levels with hcg more predictably than your everyday normie who may experience more variability in their day to day. To demo below.

With HCG:
hcg > LC/HCG receptor > Leydig Cell Signaling > Steroidogenesis > Testosterone > Aromatization > Estradiol

With Short Ester Test:
Testosterone Ester > Testosterone > Aromatase > Estradiol

There are more steps involved with the HCG route because we are stimulating an endogenous process. The more steps there are, the more variability in outcome you may experience if your other variables are not controlled. If your control of the other variables is inconsistent, then the same HCG dose will not necessarily translate to the same amount of testosterone and therefore same E2 from injection to injection. Example, you get shit faced drunk on a Friday night, your stress levels, cortisol, everything you just put your body through, could potentially throw your E2 off in that 1 day. Add to that, the aromatase "magnifying" effect of nandrolone and you're going to have some problems.

So unless you're going to be extra structured about this, I'd stick to short ester test for estrogen. Short ester test supplies a relatively direct and controllable amount of circulating testosterone, which then acts as a substrate for aromatase. Because acetate is short acting, adjustments to that estrogen production can also be adjusted relatively quickly, without the prolonged carryover of long ester test or hcg. It's more linear and to give you a personal example, if I use the exact same amount of test ace along side a gram of decanoate, once we reach saturation, my E2 levels will be almost exactly the same from day to day. We're talking like a 5-10% variance from tests that are months apart. Sometimes it's 86, sometimes it's 82 type of thing.

Side note - I know these replies are lengthy. This is intentional - I'm going in depth and treating this as a journal to reference in the future.

 

[19NorFan]

1 Gram of Test vs. 1 Gram of Nandrolone - Continued

My most recent test based blast was during this winter growth phase. I was on 1,200mg of Test E and 600mg of Boldenone U per week. For a period of about 10 days somewhere in there, I bumped the test dose up to 1,800mg but decided to hold off on that and dropped back to 1,200. Minor detail, but I like to be thorough. Additionally, with this cycle I did anadrol and trenbolone pulses on and off, which I've written about in other threads. That's where for a few days to a week, maybe 10 days max you use 50mg/day of injectable anadrol alongside 25mg/day tren suspension OR 50mg/day tren ace. Also, this entire growth phase I was on 8-12iu HGH daily, some generic, some pharma grade + insulin. Additionally, to tamper down some of the test androgenicity, I used finasteride as an ancillary.

The attached photo below (with the bodyhair) is the "peak" of what I looked like after a 5 day anadrol/tren pulse. That photo is from the middle of February this year, I'm about 275 - 278LBS there. The second photo is from the conclusion of the growth phase one month later, I'm about 255LBS there. That's roughly the difference the anadrol and tren makes. The cycle got cut short actually, hence the slight downsize. I started this phase with @Sunrise Pharma Test E and EQ. Great customer service by the way - the initial package they sent me had some broken vials and they resent everything immediately. Then for the last 6 weeks, I switched over to a supplier whose name will not be invoked, a sponsor who is no longer here. Their test turned out to either be underdosed or fake and by the time I realized it, it was too late to just switch sources and go back to the high dosages. From there I went into a health phase.

So what does high test feel like for me? It's highly stimulatory, which is why I don't particularly care for DHT based cycles. A lot of guys need and want that neural stimulation, it's got an addicting feel to it, but sometimes it gets me too excited and puts me on the edge of anxiety. For some people, nandrolone is anxiety inducing and for others it is calming. For some people, DHTs can be anxiety inducing and for others confidence and calm. It just depends on the stack of cards you were dealt in development.

It still feels good but maybe a little bit too much. It also gives me some skin irritation, especially on the forehead. It drastically increases body hair, which isn't a huge deal. It is a lot harder for me to manage estrogen and water retention on test based cycles too, than nandrolone. High test based cycles just feel dirtier to me. But the gains are there for sure. If you were to ask me which is more anabolic, 1g of test or 1g of nandrolone, I would give nandrolone a very slight advantage. It's not a huge difference though and it could just be personal bias or the way in which the sides affect my gains. So if you can or can't handle one or the other, I assure you that you're not missing out on much.

If all you can do is DHT based cycles and you think you're missing out on some special 19-nor gains with NPP, I assure you it's not the case. You can get to your peak physique without ever touching nandrolone.

That concludes this section, later today I'll go into the next.

 

[19NorFan]

This is also specific to test and masteron…

One thing I like about that combo is the beard gains. And I’m not exaggerating when I say this, my beard is either full like this with test and masteron or it’s just weak with no connection on the sides on any other AAS combo (test solo, test and primo, npp etc)

 

[LittlePrimo]

Nobody listen to this clown using deca as a base .

 

[Slowsol]

Nobody listen to this clown using deca as a base .

Tell me you’re young without telling me you’re young…..

 

[LittlePrimo]

Tell me you’re young without telling me you’re young…..

Stfu clown

 

[Slowsol]

Stfu clown

Goodluck calculating the macros on your cooked crockpot chicken that you added stock too

 

[jimbosmalls69]

Nobody listen to this clown using deca as a base .

Let’s see your physique

 

[Knarfster]

Nobody listen to this clown using deca as a base .

Look at him. I think it's working.

 

[19NorFan]

In case anyone thinks that I've come up with something new here - nandrolone based cycles have been around forever. From the 1960s through the early 80s, bodybuilders typically did a nandrolone base with primobolan or dianabol on top. Dianabol served as the estrogen replacement, however it converts to 17a-methylestradiol, not a bioidentical form, so I didn't really bother to include it as an option above. A sample cycle Mike Mentzer disclosed as using:

300mg NPP EOD
25mg Dianabol Daily
25mg Primo Acetate Daily

Then in the mid 80s through I wanna say the early to mid 90s, the Test/Nandrolone base became a thing. They would do for example, 500mg test e 500mg nandrolone d and then as much primobolan as was necessary to suppress estrogen. Eventually nandrolone got phased out for test base only cycles.