Bible Thread

[heavyiron]

Yep, makes sense to me as far as proving Jesus was/is a prophesy from the God of the Old Testament. I already believed that Jesus was foretold in the Old Testament and that Jesus was sent by God and is God.

However, there still exists a discrepancy between the overall message and characteristics between the Old Testament God and the New Testament Jesus. This is the crux of the argument the non believers use (Leviticus is also a common go to for them). A friend of mine explained this as society being so evil that Gods wrath was justified and fully deserved. And that God isn’t who we want Him to be, God is God and does what God wants to.

Anywho, what’s the other passage you want me to look at?

Thanks boss.

John chapter 12 will tie some of this together. Read the entire chapter for context and then drill down on verses 37-41. Let me know your thoughts please.

 

[heavyiron]

@heavyiron May I ask if you were raised in a religious household?

My father was an engineer and inventor who went to Yale. My mom was a housewife who raised us. Both high IQ individuals. They smoked and drank and did not give any impression of being religious until I asked my mom some questions as a kid. My grandmother died when I was 8 years old. I asked my mom what happens when you die. I was confused and thought they put you in a box and buried you and that was it. We started going to church shortly after that, but it wasn't until I was older that I began asking much deeper questions. I'm not a perfect Christian and never will be. Just a person with a very curious mind. Everything you have asked in this thread or observed I have mulled over for years. I don't have all the answers, but I have stumbled across many things that I never anticipated on this journey. I don't think many Christians understand the God of the Bible. I think maybe fewer understand how God views us. I would be considered a heretic for some of my beliefs.

I hope you find your answers brother but it's a long journey.

 

[heavyiron]

Our true identity when we believe.

𝗠𝗢𝗥𝗘 𝗧𝗛𝗔𝗡 𝗙𝗢𝗥𝗚𝗜𝗩𝗘𝗡: 𝗺𝗮𝗱𝗲 𝗿𝗶𝗴𝗵𝘁𝗲𝗼𝘂𝘀 𝗶𝗻 𝗖𝗵𝗿𝗶𝘀𝘁
Most people focus on the fact that Christ fully provided the payment for our sins through His death, burial, and resurrection — and that we are saved and forgiven through Faith in his complete sacrifice.
That is the heart of the gospel (1 Corinthians 15:1–4).
But many stop there, and in doing so, they miss another critical truth: we didn’t just receive forgiveness and salvation— we also received righteousness.
Without this understanding, it’s easy to fall into the trap of thinking that Jesus did His part by saving and forgiving us and now it’s our job to keep ourselves in God’s favor through righteous living.
But that’s not the gospel Paul preached.
𝗖𝗵𝗿𝗶𝘀𝘁 𝗗𝗶𝗱𝗻’𝘁 𝗝𝘂𝘀𝘁 𝗧𝗮𝗸𝗲 𝗦𝗼𝗺𝗲𝘁𝗵𝗶𝗻𝗴 𝗙𝗿𝗼𝗺 𝗨𝘀 — 𝗛𝗲 𝗚𝗮𝘃𝗲 𝗦𝗼𝗺𝗲𝘁𝗵𝗶𝗻𝗴 𝗧𝗼 𝗨𝘀
Through Faith in his finished work, Christ removed the guilt and penalty of sin.
But he also gave us His life through his resurrection, and with that life came His righteousness. Paul writes:

"𝗙𝗼𝗿 𝗵𝗲 𝗵𝗮𝘁𝗵 𝗺𝗮𝗱𝗲 𝗵𝗶𝗺 𝘁𝗼 𝗯𝗲 𝘀𝗶𝗻 𝗳𝗼𝗿 𝘂𝘀, 𝘄𝗵𝗼 𝗸𝗻𝗲𝘄 𝗻𝗼 𝘀𝗶𝗻; 𝘁𝗵𝗮𝘁 𝘄𝗲 𝗺𝗶𝗴𝗵𝘁 𝗯𝗲 𝗺𝗮𝗱𝗲 𝘁𝗵𝗲 𝗿𝗶𝗴𝗵𝘁𝗲𝗼𝘂𝘀𝗻𝗲𝘀𝘀 𝗼𝗳 𝗚𝗼𝗱 𝗶𝗻 𝗵𝗶𝗺."

-𝟮 𝗖𝗼𝗿𝗶𝗻𝘁𝗵𝗶𝗮𝗻𝘀 𝟱:𝟮𝟭
That’s not poetic language. That’s positional truth.
The moment we trusted the gospel, we were placed into Christ, and in Him, we are as righteous as He is — not by works, not by law-keeping, not by effort — but by grace through faith.
Forgiveness is the gracious removal of the guilt, debt, and penalty of sin through the blood of Christ, applied to the believer the moment they trust the gospel.
Not only that, you are clothed with the very righteousness of Christ
You now stand accepted before God, justified forever, and complete in Christ.

"Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus."

— Romans 3:24
This is why Paul never preached a “now it’s up to you to maintain it” gospel.
He taught that we are saved by grace, stand in grace, and are sealed by the Spirit (Ephesians 1:13; Romans 5:2).
Any system that makes your righteousness the basis of your standing before God is a denial of the cross and a perversion of grace.
𝗪𝗛𝗬 𝗧𝗛𝗜𝗦 𝗠𝗔𝗧𝗧𝗘𝗥𝗦
If all you believe is that Christ forgave your sins, you’ll always feel pressure to “keep up” your salvation by how well you perform.
That’s law-thinking.
— not the mystery revealed to Paul
But when you understand that you were also made righteous in Christ, you walk in liberty, not in fear.
You serve God, not to be accepted, but because you are accepted in the beloved (Ephesians 1:6).
In Summary

Christ took your sin.

Forgave and saved you when you believed

And gave you His righteousness.

And now, you're complete in Him (Colossians 2:10).
Rejoice in the full gospel — the gospel of the grace of God.
𝗥𝗼𝗯𝗲𝗿𝘁 𝗠𝘄𝗮𝗻𝗴𝗶

 

[Milford King]

Our true identity when we believe.

𝗠𝗢𝗥𝗘 𝗧𝗛𝗔𝗡 𝗙𝗢𝗥𝗚𝗜𝗩𝗘𝗡: 𝗺𝗮𝗱𝗲 𝗿𝗶𝗴𝗵𝘁𝗲𝗼𝘂𝘀 𝗶𝗻 𝗖𝗵𝗿𝗶𝘀𝘁
Most people focus on the fact that Christ fully provided the payment for our sins through His death, burial, and resurrection — and that we are saved and forgiven through Faith in his complete sacrifice.
That is the heart of the gospel (1 Corinthians 15:1–4).
But many stop there, and in doing so, they miss another critical truth: we didn’t just receive forgiveness and salvation— we also received righteousness.
Without this understanding, it’s easy to fall into the trap of thinking that Jesus did His part by saving and forgiving us and now it’s our job to keep ourselves in God’s favor through righteous living.
But that’s not the gospel Paul preached.
𝗖𝗵𝗿𝗶𝘀𝘁 𝗗𝗶𝗱𝗻’𝘁 𝗝𝘂𝘀𝘁 𝗧𝗮𝗸𝗲 𝗦𝗼𝗺𝗲𝘁𝗵𝗶𝗻𝗴 𝗙𝗿𝗼𝗺 𝗨𝘀 — 𝗛𝗲 𝗚𝗮𝘃𝗲 𝗦𝗼𝗺𝗲𝘁𝗵𝗶𝗻𝗴 𝗧𝗼 𝗨𝘀
Through Faith in his finished work, Christ removed the guilt and penalty of sin.
But he also gave us His life through his resurrection, and with that life came His righteousness. Paul writes:

-𝟮 𝗖𝗼𝗿𝗶𝗻𝘁𝗵𝗶𝗮𝗻𝘀 𝟱:𝟮𝟭
That’s not poetic language. That’s positional truth.
The moment we trusted the gospel, we were placed into Christ, and in Him, we are as righteous as He is — not by works, not by law-keeping, not by effort — but by grace through faith.
Forgiveness is the gracious removal of the guilt, debt, and penalty of sin through the blood of Christ, applied to the believer the moment they trust the gospel.
Not only that, you are clothed with the very righteousness of Christ
You now stand accepted before God, justified forever, and complete in Christ.

— Romans 3:24
This is why Paul never preached a “now it’s up to you to maintain it” gospel.
He taught that we are saved by grace, stand in grace, and are sealed by the Spirit (Ephesians 1:13; Romans 5:2).
Any system that makes your righteousness the basis of your standing before God is a denial of the cross and a perversion of grace.
𝗪𝗛𝗬 𝗧𝗛𝗜𝗦 𝗠𝗔𝗧𝗧𝗘𝗥𝗦
If all you believe is that Christ forgave your sins, you’ll always feel pressure to “keep up” your salvation by how well you perform.
That’s law-thinking.
— not the mystery revealed to Paul
But when you understand that you were also made righteous in Christ, you walk in liberty, not in fear.
You serve God, not to be accepted, but because you are accepted in the beloved (Ephesians 1:6).
In Summary

Forgave and saved you when you believed

And gave you His righteousness.

And now, you're complete in Him (Colossians 2:10).
Rejoice in the full gospel — the gospel of the grace of God.
𝗥𝗼𝗯𝗲𝗿𝘁 𝗠𝘄𝗮𝗻𝗴𝗶

Other than loving my enemies….That (salvation through faith and nothing else) is the second most difficult thing for me to understand in my own journey.

But I understand it’s importance. I blamed myself and my past for the suffering endured by my loved ones and still do sometimes. A “If I had just been a better person” type of thing… Many people turn away from God because they feel they’ve been punished. They don’t fully believe in the afterlife.

I guess ya just gotta have faith..true faith.

 

[heavyiron]

Other than loving my enemies….That (salvation through faith and nothing else) is the second most difficult thing for me to understand in my own journey.

But I understand it’s importance. I blamed myself and my past for the suffering endured by my loved ones and still do sometimes. A “If I had just been a better person” type of thing… Many people turn away from God because they feel they’ve been punished. They don’t fully believe in the afterlife.

I guess ya just gotta have faith..true faith.

We are hardwired to do works to make us more palatable to the most Holy being in the universe. We think we can earn our place. It would be comical if it wasn't so true. Do we really understand His holiness? He is so utterly above us in His sinlessness its hard to comprehend. We think we can do some good works and inch just a little closer to Him. No, our "good" works are like used menstrual rags in comparison to His Holiness.

I think we all miss the point. The point is to love Him and others and then we will want to do what's right with the right motive.

 

[heavyiron]

Just read this below a few minutes ago. Its a thought I have had before but put better than I could. Who is this One who was infinite and then chose to become finite for us?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1953446803757478055

View: https://x.com/SlayStupidity/status/1953446803757478055

 

[heavyiron]

In John 12 37-41 John quotes Isaiah 53:1 in verse 38 and then quotes Isaiah 6:10 in verse 40. John is tying Jesus to both passages. Jesus is the suffering servant of Isaiah 53 but then John says something mind boggling. Isaiah saw the glory of Jesus. Verse 41 - These things Isaiah said when he saw His glory and spoke of Him. Its no coincidence that John quotes from Isaiah 6 before making this stunning comment. Jesus is YHWH. Many Christians would likely say Isaiah 6 is about the Father but its really about Jesus before He was a man. Jesus existed in a different form that Paul calls the image. Keep in mind the audience here are the Jews. They had to believe that Jesus was Messiah and YHWH. However many of them rejected this message outright which by the way is yet another fulfilled prophecy.

 

[Milford King]

In John 12 37-41 John quotes Isaiah 53:1 in verse 38 and then quotes Isaiah 6:10 in verse 40. John is tying Jesus to both passages. Jesus is the suffering servant of Isaiah 53 but then John says something mind boggling. Isaiah saw the glory of Jesus. Verse 41 - These things Isaiah said when he saw His glory and spoke of Him. Its no coincidence that John quotes from Isaiah 6 before making this stunning comment. Jesus is YHWH. Many Christians would likely say Isaiah 6 is about the Father but its really about Jesus before He was a man. Jesus existed in a different form that Paul calls the image. Keep in mind the audience here are the Jews. They had to believe that Jesus was Messiah and YHWH. However many of them rejected this message outright which by the way is yet another fulfilled prophecy.

View attachment 193294

After reading John 12, I see a couple different messages. One of them being, if you truly believed you don’t have to worry about judgement day because you would live naught in the things that God would weigh you and find you wanting.

I also see a message to the Jewish people that they’d rather worship their pharisees than the divine because they have no faith in God.

Jesus also says he came to save not condemn and those that choose to not comprehend His purpose will be judged.

Verse 49 does throw me off a bit when Jesus says he isn’t speaking for himself but of the father. I gather it as leading folks back to God as they see Jesus as merely a man. So, again, we’re dealing with wrangling lost souls back to the pasture of righteousness… which was likely a difficult task as it is today.

Also, Mary of Bethany used expensive lotion to massage Jesus feet and upset Judas because he wanted to sell the ointment to “help the poor” (aka stereotypical brazillions) … Jesus says the poor will always be… and ye getteth him for a brief time period.. (which I thought was kind of funny, I often think Jesus had a pretty good sense of humor).

 

[Milford King]

I think maybe fewer understand how God views us. I would be considered a heretic for some of my beliefs.

Man. I don’t want to cross any lines but….. this statement has been on my mind since I read it a few days ago.

I feel like a heretic all the time when it comes to “mainstream” theology and, to be frank, history as we know it in general. YouTube’s rabbit holes do not help.

I would love to hear some of the beliefs you have that would get you accused of heresy, if that’s an option…. In or out of the public forum setting is fine with me if it’s something you’re willing to teach me.

 

[GYMnTONIC]

I've been reading Romans lately. And acts.

I read something that stood out to me, so I will share:

One believes with their heart.
One confesses with their mouth.

The mouth and heart can carry us into the pit of hell or into and beyond the gates of heaven.

We have full control of what we choose to do with our hearts and mouths. God doesn't force us and we are not mandated as to a choice.

I find this to be an amazing thought.

God is so fair and just he creates an open ended option.

If it were me, or many of us. We would have simply created a perfect human,.with no ability to sin and no free will. Problem solved right?
But then that's kinda robotic.

But is that still better then free will?

I would say no. Simply bc God is perfection. However he did it, and however he meant to do it was perfect. You and I are not worthy or intelligent enough to determine what could, shoulda, or woulda been "best"

God wins

 

[Glycomann]

From an early age I have had a problem with wrath. I was always stronger than most even as a child. Training and martial arts made me efficient and more dangerous. Many of you here are like me. I look at the world today and I see a world fallen at the hand of principalities, hands that move in the shadows. I feel such anger and the want for my wrath to inflict justice. I am no biblical scholar. As we turn through the pages of the New Testament and come to understanding of the New Covenant we can realize that God does not desire us to inflict wrath, at least not unless he directs us there and that is a hard thing and many, especially in the Old Testament, assumed so but were wrong and suffered for it. The bottom line is God is Love, Peace and Justice. It will take time but all three will prevail in the end. I may be long passed by then but I realize it is not for me to decide to inflict my wrath again. But if called to, in my advanced age and remaining strength, I will rise to his direction. Protect your family, friends and yourself. There must be a Remnant when this evil passes and justice, truth, and peace prevail. When the principalities are gone Mankind can love one another again.

 

[heavyiron]

Where in the text is the origin of the red heifer? Curious.

It was a full ceremony, in preparation for doing it on the Mount of Olives. It was perfectly done. Including using what many Rabbis consider a perfect Red Heifer. They followed the written tradition but as always a sect of Jews will argue it didn't follow oral tradition. Either way it was kosher from my viewpoint which is remarkable since this is a first in 2,000 years.

Video

www.facebook.com

 

[Meetketchup]

God doesn't force us and we are not mandated as to a choice.

I would say something is mandated if the consequence is burning in hell for eternity. It's like someone having a gun to your head asking a question expecting one answer while you know if you answer the opposite way you will be shot. In reality you have a choice, but not really.

 

[Glycomann]

It was a full ceremony, in preparation for doing it on the Mount of Olives. It was perfectly done. Including using what many Rabbis consider a perfect Red Heifer. They followed the written tradition but as always a sect of Jews will argue it didn't follow oral tradition. Either way it was kosher from my viewpoint which is remarkable since this is a first in 2,000 years.

Video

www.facebook.com

Great!! Just fucking great! I hope they bicker over it for the next 2000 years.

 

[heavyiron]

Classic when Christians say, "Well that is just metaphor, analogy or up for interpretation." If that is the case, how is to anyone know or determine what in the bible is true and what isn't? We just pick and choose what suits our beliefs and disregard the other stuff? Regardless of whether or not it defies the laws of physics? I mean, Christ rising from the dead could be a metaphor, right? Or being born from a virgin, right? Oh wait, those are miracles. Right. If you're going all in, then go all in. Believe it all including the sadistic, immoral and unethical stuff. Not just what you want.

I will bow out of the thread. Don't mean to offend anyone. I just get annoyed when the above argument presented.

Carry on and I love you all. Yes, that is from a militant atheist.

Good points brother. However it is more complicated and nuanced because we are interpreting a variety of material. I 100% agree if you are reading a historical narrative it would be odd not to read it literally. Genesis is one book that I think is a historical narrative. However Psalms is a book of songs that may describe historical narrative but also may be straight up poetry. I don't think God has feathered wings but there are poetic sections that say He does. Proverbs is also poetic and the poetry often uses allegory or figurative language. Revelation is highly symbolic yet some is obviously literal. Anyway this is a science and art called hermeneutics. Sorry if you already knew this, I'm not being condescending at all.

I tend to read the Bible through literal, historical and grammatical lenses but I cant entirely throw out allegory. So I believe in a literal 6 day creation, a literal virgin birth and a literal resurrection. Listed below are 5 different Bible hermeneutics. I prefer a mix of 1 and 2 with a sprinkling of the others.

Five common approaches to Biblical hermeneutics

While the concept of biblical hermeneutics encompasses a wide range of approaches and methods for interpreting the Bible, several types consistently stand out as prominent in discussions of biblical interpretation. Here are five of the most frequently mentioned:

1. Historical-grammatical method: This approach focuses on understanding the biblical text in its original historical and grammatical context. It emphasizes discovering the author's intended meaning by considering the historical situation, cultural background, literary genre, and grammatical structure of the text.
2. Literal Interpretation: This approach seeks the "plain meaning" of a biblical text, interpreting it according to the normal use of language, and accepting the text as truthful. However, it's important to recognize that "literal" does not imply ignoring literary devices or symbolism when present in a particular passage.
3. Allegorical Interpretation: This approach views biblical narratives as having a secondary level of meaning beyond the literal sense, often seeing people, events, and objects as foreshadowing New Testament figures or events, particularly those related to Jesus and his actions. This approach, while historically significant, has been countered by the rise of the literal interpretation in some traditions.
4. Moral Interpretation: Focusing on the ethical lessons behind a biblical text, this approach seeks to derive moral and ethical principles from scripture. Historically, this type of interpretation has been emphasized by some Jewish traditions and early Christian thinkers like Augustine.
5. Canonical Criticism: This approach emphasizes the Bible as a unified, finished product within the context of the biblical canon. It examines the final form of the text and how different parts of the canon interact to form a coherent theological message for the believing community.

It is important to remember that these types of hermeneutics are not always mutually exclusive, and interpreters may draw upon elements from different approaches depending on the specific text and the goals of their interpretation.

 

[oldbull]

I promise I am not being a smart aleck here, just wondering what others make of my interpretation.

According to Genesis in the Bible, masturbation is a sin due to Onan spilling his seed rather than using it to procreate.

If that is the case, does it not make sense that masturbation is only a sin for men? Women are not wasting anything by masturbating.

I ask because masturbation has always seemed to me sinful for men but not women, but I figured that is just because the thought of men doing it is disgusting while it definitely does not if women do…

 

[Meetketchup]

Good points brother. However it is more complicated and nuanced because we are interpreting a variety of material. I 100% agree if you are reading a historical narrative it would be odd not to read it literally. Genesis is one book that I think is a historical narrative. However Psalms is a book of songs that may describe historical narrative but also may be straight up poetry. I don't think God has feathered wings but there are poetic sections that say He does. Proverbs is also poetic and the poetry often uses allegory or figurative language. Revelation is highly symbolic yet some is obviously literal. Anyway this is a science and art called hermeneutics. Sorry if you already knew this, I'm not being condescending at all.

I tend to read the Bible through literal, historical and grammatical lenses but I cant entirely throw out allegory. So I believe in a literal 6 day creation, a literal virgin birth and a literal resurrection. Listed below are 5 different Bible hermeneutics. I prefer a mix of 1 and 2 with a sprinkling of the others.

Five common approaches to Biblical hermeneutics

While the concept of biblical hermeneutics encompasses a wide range of approaches and methods for interpreting the Bible, several types consistently stand out as prominent in discussions of biblical interpretation. Here are five of the most frequently mentioned:

1. Historical-grammatical method: This approach focuses on understanding the biblical text in its original historical and grammatical context. It emphasizes discovering the author's intended meaning by considering the historical situation, cultural background, literary genre, and grammatical structure of the text.
2. Literal Interpretation: This approach seeks the "plain meaning" of a biblical text, interpreting it according to the normal use of language, and accepting the text as truthful. However, it's important to recognize that "literal" does not imply ignoring literary devices or symbolism when present in a particular passage.
3. Allegorical Interpretation: This approach views biblical narratives as having a secondary level of meaning beyond the literal sense, often seeing people, events, and objects as foreshadowing New Testament figures or events, particularly those related to Jesus and his actions. This approach, while historically significant, has been countered by the rise of the literal interpretation in some traditions.
4. Moral Interpretation: Focusing on the ethical lessons behind a biblical text, this approach seeks to derive moral and ethical principles from scripture. Historically, this type of interpretation has been emphasized by some Jewish traditions and early Christian thinkers like Augustine.
5. Canonical Criticism: This approach emphasizes the Bible as a unified, finished product within the context of the biblical canon. It examines the final form of the text and how different parts of the canon interact to form a coherent theological message for the believing community.

It is important to remember that these types of hermeneutics are not always mutually exclusive, and interpreters may draw upon elements from different approaches depending on the specific text and the goals of their interpretation.

I truly appreciate the response and love these talks. Yes, I'm well versed in hermeneutics.

My argument is not what someone can extract from the bible whether it moral, ethical, lessons, etc or the interpretations of such.

My issue is at base level (first principal) is it true. And without Jordan Peterson word salad you know what I mean by "true." Is God and everything in the bible factual and supported by evidence? If not, well who determines what is true and what is simply allegory or is it all allegory. I have a hard time comprehending what are considered rational people all in on defying the laws of physics based on a book of passages over the course of several decades, many of which have been inserted and removed over the course of time that often contradict each other. The picking and choosing what is true and what is not, is too convenient.

Making it as simple as possible: My argument is that religions are mad made and the stories within each practice are allegory. I don't see why many Christians have such a hard time admitting this. They can still believe what they wish without saying it is true.

I hope I'm making myself clear with the above.

 

[heavyiron]

I truly appreciate the response and love these talks. Yes, I'm well versed in hermeneutics.

My argument is not what someone can extract from the bible whether it moral, ethical, lessons, etc or the interpretations of such.

My issue is at base level (first principal) is it true. And without Jordan Peterson word salad you know what I mean by "true." Is God and everything in the bible factual and supported by evidence? If not, well who determines what is true and what is simply allegory or is it all allegory. I have a hard time comprehending what are considered rational people all in on defying the laws of physics based on a book of passages over the course of several decades, many of which have been inserted and removed over the course of time that often contradict each other. The picking and choosing what is true and what is not, is too convenient.

Making it as simple as possible: My argument is that religions are mad made and the stories within each practice are allegory. I don't see why many Christians have such a hard time admitting this. They can still believe what they wish without saying it is true.

I hope I'm making myself clear with the above.

Yes, crystal clear.

Many Christians and even "great" church fathers embraced a hermeneutic that was mostly allegory. Augustine pretty much rejected parts of the OT until Plato's writings convinced him it could be taken as allegory. Plato was a Pagan philosopher so its a bit weird but some Christians do mostly see the Bible through that lense.

I knew an elder many years ago thaT BELIEVED IN A VIRGIN BIRTH AND PHYSICAL RESSURECTION OF cHRIST BUT REJECTED A LITERAL 6 DAY CREATION. tHAT ALWAYS STRUCK ME AS ODD. gOD CAN DO nt MIRACLES BUT NOT ot MIRICLES. i THINK THE THING THAT BOTHERS ME THE MOST IS WHEN THE HERMANEUTIC IS INCONSISTENT.

Sorry, cap lock

btw, Pilate asked a similar question of Christ. John 18:38 (“What is truth?”). Its an ancient question.

28Then they led Jesus from Caiaphas to the Praetorium, and it was early morning. But they themselves did not go into the [f]Praetorium, lest they should be defiled, but that they might eat the Passover. 29Pilate then went out to them and said, “What accusation do you bring against this Man?”

30They answered and said to him, “If He were not [g]an evildoer, we would not have delivered Him up to you.”

31Then Pilate said to them, “You take Him and judge Him according to your law.”

Therefore the Jews said to him, “It is not lawful for us to put anyone to death,” 32that the saying of Jesus might be fulfilled which He spoke, signifying by what death He would die.

33Then Pilate entered the [h]Praetorium again, called Jesus, and said to Him, “Are You the King of the Jews?”

34Jesus answered him, “Are you speaking for yourself about this, or did others tell you this concerning Me?”

35Pilate answered, “Am I a Jew? Your own nation and the chief priests have delivered You to me. What have You done?”

36Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would fight, so that I should not be delivered to the Jews; but now My kingdom is not from here.”

37Pilate therefore said to Him, “Are You a king then?”

Jesus answered, “You say rightly that I am a king. For this cause I was born, and for this cause I have come into the world, that I should bear witness to the truth. Everyone who is of the truth hears My voice.”

38Pilate said to Him, “What is truth?” And when he had said this, he went out again to the Jews, and said to them, “I find no fault in Him at all.

 

[Milford King]

A criticism I have for my own Christian faith is the idea of morality. Specifically the use of biblical morality against us to our own detriment. Not morality being used as a tool to promote a cohesive society but rather a self inflicted suicide pact that literally leads to a “western” culture extinction event (or series of events).

My argument is : morality is locally objective and only works to keep society intact and even thriving in a culturally homogeneous population.

The lion justifies his kill by eating and feeding his family while the gazelles look upon the remains of uncle Gus (the gazelle) as wholly immoral.

 

[GYMnTONIC]

I promise I am not being a smart aleck here, just wondering what others make of my interpretation.

According to Genesis in the Bible, masturbation is a sin due to Onan spilling his seed rather than using it to procreate.

If that is the case, does it not make sense that masturbation is only a sin for men? Women are not wasting anything by masturbating.
I ask because masturbation has always seemed to me sinful for men but not women, but I figured that is just because the thought of men doing it is disgusting while it definitely does not if women do…

It's a legit question.

I have wondered myself as well.
The Bible and God can be very strict at times and I have noticed that it's always with good reason...

God's never wrong.

I think masturbating can turn to deceitful , lustful and sinful thoughts. At least most men or many men rely on visualization.

But one could argue that happens during sex too. I can't tell you how many times I was in a relationship having sex w my girl,.and to finish I would visualize a past conquest or past sexual experience with another woman.

In no way am I bragging at all...I believe that's a sin.

God says if we so much as look at another woman with lust in our hearts that's adultery.

How many of us have done or do that? Be honest.

I used to do that non stop. See an attractive girl w a revealing outfit and fantasize pounding into her. That's sin.

It comes naturally some times or instinctively one could say, but I would argue that, it's simply when one allows sin to become habit. When I'm w a new woman in a new relationship and it's exciting and sex is good, I don't engage in those behaviors. I don't masturbate and I don't fantasize about other women. But in time, that changes and even I, or many of us,.give in to sin.

So how to prevent it.

I know if I see an attractive woman wearing something revealing I immediately turn my head and block my own view. Part of me is curious but I'm aware that I will lust after her..I'm a high level testosterone male who already has an issue lusting after women . Why feed my issue? It's sin and I know it.

So I am strong enough to avoid it...not always but almost always.

Get close to God through prayer and reading the Bible and praising him.

You won't want to lust anymore..you won't want to watch porn. You won't daydream about banging 2,3 women...your girlfriend's sister, etc etc.

You all know what I'm talking about, we all have done it

But yes I think masturbation "can" be a sin.

If you are married and masturbating with your wife and she's part of it and you are focused on her and visualizing her and in love with her, is that sin? It's certainly not adultery...and it's not lust. But at the same time God didn't create us just to have missionary style sex with our wives.

He knew were gonna have them in a pretzel. Every single time we can . That is not sin.

I think we need to look at intent as well when it comes to sexuality. Are u intending to lust? Are u intending to.sin.

Sometimes sin is a turn on...I've had sex w married women (I'm ashamed now) and at the time both her and I got off and had better sex from just knowing what we were doing.

Now I'm ashamed of that and would
Never do that to someone again. Satan doesn't always make sin come dressed as a horrible thing ..it can be quite tempting and desireful.

But we must fight it. Fight your mental thoughts and lusts and you won't want to masturbate. Trust me I can tell you from personal experiences having struggled w lust my whole life, that it's possible. I had a lot of issues growing up bc I had sex as a child w grown adult woman...consentually...I of course loved it.. but it caused me massive lust issues growing up and made me look at women as literal pieces of meat.

I have long since healed and rarely if ever struggle with lust now. Even with 2000 nano T LEVELS lol.

God.is good...truly. .prayer and Bible reading is what helped me. "Put on the armor of God" to fight porn , and lust.

How is this answer sir? Any thoughts to my opinion?

 

[HFO4]

10The fear/awe of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom,
and knowledge of the Holy One is understanding.

.

 

[GYMnTONIC]

Matthew 5:45

 

[oldbull]

It's a legit question.

I have wondered myself as well.
The Bible and God can be very strict at times and I have noticed that it's always with good reason...

God's never wrong.

I think masturbating can turn to deceitful , lustful and sinful thoughts. At least most men or many men rely on visualization.

But one could argue that happens during sex too. I can't tell you how many times I was in a relationship having sex w my girl,.and to finish I would visualize a past conquest or past sexual experience with another woman.

In no way am I bragging at all...I believe that's a sin.

God says if we so much as look at another woman with lust in our hearts that's adultery.

How many of us have done or do that? Be honest.

I used to do that non stop. See an attractive girl w a revealing outfit and fantasize pounding into her. That's sin.

It comes naturally some times or instinctively one could say, but I would argue that, it's simply when one allows sin to become habit. When I'm w a new woman in a new relationship and it's exciting and sex is good, I don't engage in those behaviors. I don't masturbate and I don't fantasize about other women. But in time, that changes and even I, or many of us,.give in to sin.

So how to prevent it.

I know if I see an attractive woman wearing something revealing I immediately turn my head and block my own view. Part of me is curious but I'm aware that I will lust after her..I'm a high level testosterone male who already has an issue lusting after women . Why feed my issue? It's sin and I know it.

So I am strong enough to avoid it...not always but almost always.

Get close to God through prayer and reading the Bible and praising him.

You won't want to lust anymore..you won't want to watch porn. You won't daydream about banging 2,3 women...your girlfriend's sister, etc etc.

You all know what I'm talking about, we all have done it

But yes I think masturbation "can" be a sin.

If you are married and masturbating with your wife and she's part of it and you are focused on her and visualizing her and in love with her, is that sin? It's certainly not adultery...and it's not lust. But at the same time God didn't create us just to have missionary style sex with our wives.

He knew were gonna have them in a pretzel. Every single time we can . That is not sin.

I think we need to look at intent as well when it comes to sexuality. Are u intending to lust? Are u intending to.sin.

Sometimes sin is a turn on...I've had sex w married women (I'm ashamed now) and at the time both her and I got off and had better sex from just knowing what we were doing.

Now I'm ashamed of that and would
Never do that to someone again. Satan doesn't always make sin come dressed as a horrible thing ..it can be quite tempting and desireful.

But we must fight it. Fight your mental thoughts and lusts and you won't want to masturbate. Trust me I can tell you from personal experiences having struggled w lust my whole life, that it's possible. I had a lot of issues growing up bc I had sex as a child w grown adult woman...consentually...I of course loved it.. but it caused me massive lust issues growing up and made me look at women as literal pieces of meat.

I have long since healed and rarely if ever struggle with lust now. Even with 2000 nano T LEVELS lol.

God.is good...truly. .prayer and Bible reading is what helped me. "Put on the armor of God" to fight porn , and lust.

How is this answer sir? Any thoughts to my opinion?

That’s a very thoughtful answer and I think you are spot on with some of it — on the other hand, I wonder why God saddles us with sexual urges only to expect us to suppress them.

That could be a legitimate aim to test our faith or fidelity — or it could be that God really does not care that much and we are reading into it too much.

Not saying I agree with the latter opinion. More likely the truth is more complicated. As a mammal that can procreate year-round, unlike others that only go into “heat” periodically, it could be our sense of sexual guilt is a way to mitigate that potential to reproduce irresponsibly.

As for masturbation itself, it has never been a preoccupation of mine and is even less so as I have gotten older and sex drive has diminished.

The “sin of Onan” interests me as far as the seeming biblical double standard for men and women. If it is the case that masturbation is not a sin for women, it could be that they are not depleted by it as men are. It takes vigor away from us, which could be why we’ve found reasons to proscribe it.

Though I consider myself a Catholic and a believer, I don’t subscribe to a literal understanding of the Bible. I tend to see it as a cultural document, though perhaps inspired by God as most things are, that probably has strong foundations for the things it encourages or discourages.

Also, I was pretty high when I wrote the original post and hadn’t slept for a long time, so perhaps my point was not as coherent as I though at the time, lol…

 

[HFO4]

Today’s the day the Lord has made rejoice and be glad in it?

Nehemiah said, “Go and enjoy choice food and sweet drinks, and send some to those who have nothing prepared. This day is holy to our Lord. Do not grieve, for the joy of the Lord is your strength.”

 

[HFO4]

God the Father is sososo gooood❤
Man He luuuuvs us sososo much He sent His only begotten Son… check out Jesus prayer for us in John 17… He prayed this just before He went to the cross and gave up His own life and traded His righteousness for our unrighteousness and He took our punishment on while sharing His eternal life and sharing His glory of being one with Him and His Father

It is impossible to please God without faith, so switch your faith if you’re not believing in who Jesus is to a faith in believing in who Jesus truly is, He is the Son of the Living God, Lord of Lords, King of Kings if you did, the prayer Jesus prayed below is part of your new destiny in life, you’re a new creation, your old identity of a born into sin and separation from God are changed to you being a new creation spiritually reborn in Christ which is your new identity, you’re the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus

John 17
After Jesus said this, he looked toward heaven and prayed:

“Father, the hour has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you.

My prayer is not for them (disciples/apostles) alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, 21 that all of them may be one,Father, just as you are in me and I am in you.May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. 22 I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one— 23 I in them and you in me—so that they may be brought to complete unity. Then the world will know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me.

24 “Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am, and to see my glory,the glory you have given me because you loved me before the creation of the world.

Righteous Father, though the world does not know you, I know you, and they know that you have sent me. 26;I have made you known to them, and will continue to make you known in order that the love you have for me may be in them and that I myself may be in them.”

View: https://open.spotify.com/track/7nLL5UrsXYHVWv2DnXBtud?si=Hg60N_CbTtiBkLWSeKaJcA&context=spotify%3Aplaylist%3A4EDrunGF17y59Ot3nHRwrZ


And then won't we pray just remind us this is a conversation with a person it loves us that knows everything about us and loves us you deserve every breath that comes out of us every word every note we could ever sing is yours. Thank you God that you're the one in Jesus name Amen".

 

[GYMnTONIC]

Edit double post

 

[GYMnTONIC]

 

[netix]

This whole idea Bill Gates is pushing has an eerie mark of the beast type vibe to it.

Bill Gates Declares the End of the Smartphone Era and Unveils Its Surprising Replacement

The age of smartphones is coming to an end. A bold prediction from Bill Gates reveals a revolutionary new tech set to replace your phone forever.

dailygalaxy.com

 

[Milford King]

I promise I am not being a smart aleck here, just wondering what others make of my interpretation.

According to Genesis in the Bible, masturbation is a sin due to Onan spilling his seed rather than using it to procreate.

If that is the case, does it not make sense that masturbation is only a sin for men? Women are not wasting anything by masturbating.

I ask because masturbation has always seemed to me sinful for men but not women, but I figured that is just because the thought of men doing it is disgusting while it definitely does not if women do…

Masturbation wasn’t the root cause of Gods wrath. Onan was “pulling out” in defiance of his marital obligations.

 

[oldbull]

Masturbation wasn’t the root cause of Gods wrath. Onan was “pulling out” in defiance of his marital obligations.

That is correct but basically it has been interpreted as any non-procreative seed spillage. I suppose contraception of any kind is just as bad.