The Long Game

[Montego]

So, many of you saw the posts about one of our brothers passing recently with what was called heart complications.

Every time we've lost someone, it's obviously hard and unexpected but, this one hit home pretty hard given my relationship with that individual.

I worked with this individual for over 5 years so I know exactly what he was doing the entire time. (The best a coach knows what any client is going)

When we started, he was already in his 40s, just a regular guy who wanted to get into good shape and that transformed into him wanting to compete for the fun and competition aspect of it. No thoughts of being a pro, or a high level national competitor, just to do something hard that actually has a reward you could see and feel.

Health wise, everything was good for the most part. No issues with blood pressure, no blood sugar concerns, liver, kidneys, all in good working order and, regular bloodwork showed this was all consistent the entire time. The one "red flag" he usually had was elevated hematocrit. He lived at elevation, and this is very common for people who live at elevation which, his primary Dr, also said, given the circumstance wasn't uncommon and wasn't concerned about the issue especially since blood pressure was always in good range.

The doses this individual used, duration of cycles, and compounds, were what most would consider low to moderate. Even during a prep, this didn't change. Test doses that never got over 600mg, Deca doses no more then 300mg, ran tren twice at 300mg, orals at no more then 50mg a day for most compounds, less for stronger orals. These examples were never run together, if a test dose was "higher" for the individual, everything else was lower then I listed and vice versa.

The time off was the VAST majority of the year... I'm not talking 27 out of 52 weeks, I mean 34 weeks a year some years. Some a bit shorter but he was off way more then on.

Diet was a struggle for him. He had a CRAZY metabolism so there were huge amounts of food needed to get him to grow or not lose too quickly. Sometimes the food choices were not "clean" , bread mainly, or cereal post training, but 90% was basic rice, chicken, beef, potato, egg, fruit, healthy fats ECT, it was just A LOT. He would have a weekly free meal that his wife would make at home at first, then this turned into a daily dinner they would have at home, not only for the added calories but, for the bonding time they would have in the kitchen and table together.

He didn't do cardio. He had a labor intensive job that peeled weight off of him and kept him so active it didn't seem necessary. Also, given never having any concerns with blood pressure, it seemed fine. We had multiple conversations about how I needed him to sit the fuck down at work and let his helpers work more so he wasn't burning through the calories but, this guy just couldn't do it, a sign of how hard he worked and how dedicated he was with his work.

This individual did everything correct. Of course, now, I go back and nitpick about something here and there. The cardio or the hct despite knowing we did it all right and had his health best interest at heart as I always try to do.

The only thing I would do, if I could go back in time, would be to tell this guy to never touch AAS..... That seems like it's the correct answer but then you think, what if he hadn't chose this journey and ate like a normal American, didn't train with weights, didn't dedicate himself to becoming a better physical version of himself? Would things have turned out differently? I dunno.

This is a very real consequence we all face, even though we will all justify why it won't be us because "I do my cardio", "I get bloodwork done", "I eat healthy", "I run low doses", "I take time off", "I'm still young", "I take this and this for this side effect"... Got anything else? Any other bright ideas? I'm sure some dumb cunt will have something or, the inevitable "I'm ok with whatever happens".....

This isn't a post to demonize anabolics, or to say you shouldn't do what you want with your life. It's not to justify our choices and, at the end of the day, you can do it all right and still have something terrible happen so why care?

This post is intended to simply give some insight, as someone who was as close to this person as you can be from a "coaches" view and, explain just how little control we have over outcome of our life choices then we expect we do.

 

[Big_Jimmy434]

@Montego everything you said is correct, and everything that I'm about to say is also correct. Brother, you cant bare any responsibility for the unfortunate passing of Cdub. None of us truly know what caused his untimely and unfortunate death. You say that its a "consequence," but the fact of the matter is, it could be completely unrelated to AAS or anything else that you are aware of. Unfortunately, people pass of heart related conditions that never touch AAS.

You're a good dude and everyone here has the utmost trust and respect for you and so did Cdub. The way I see it, you probably helped extend his life and helped him stay motivated to fight the good fight, and if not for that, he may have passed long before we ever had the blessing of even knowing him.

You're right. We have zero control. None. We can do everything that we think is right, but at some point, we will all be faced with our own mortality regardless.

Brother, I think if Cdub could say it, he'd probably thank you for all your help, and getting him as far as you did.

We all love you, brother. Keep doing what you're doing because what you are doing is caring about people, and dedicating your time to help them. Although we all lost a friend, you were in the fight with him, and he'd want you to keep fighting.

 

[[Pinhead]]

Thank you for posting this. This is the type of sincere and meaningful discourse that I look for when I log into ASF. I have been completely off PED's for almost four months now, and the desire to jump back on has been gnawing at me pretty badly. Actually, it's been excruciating. Just a total mind fuck. But reading about Cdub's untimely passing definitely shook me a bit, as these things always do each time I read this sort of unfortunate news.

AAS use is so normalized now. Whether it's with people who openly show their names and faces on YouTube discussing cycles and whatnot, to folks casually discussing blasting this and that on forums, social media, etc. (I've done this, too, obviously.) However, what isn't emphasized enough are the very real dangers to health and potential LE troubles that can transpire even when the end user seems to be doing everything correctly. (At least it's always appeared this way from my foxhole.) And you're right, the question of "Would this have happened anyway?" is something we'll never know the answer to, but it certainly does raise concern.

Will I jump back on? Probably? Maybe? I still don't know. Call me a pussy, paranoid, or whatever, but it seems like every time I feel like I'm ready to do so, I get some sort of warning sign sent out from the cosmos to stay away. I wrestle with this daily.

Anyway, just my two cents. And to be clear, I am definitely not trying to make this about me, just speaking from the heart. Thank you once again for sharing this.

 

[rollin-tumblin]

Everything seems like harm mitigation when it comes to AAS, rather than total harm elimination. Although I'm certainly no expert, having just been on TRT for the past 15 months or so and still not having ever done a cycle of any sort, save for the 2IU of daily GH I do coupled with my weekly test c scrip. Technically I suppose that counts. I don't think anyone could make the argument that they are healthier ON steroids than if they were 100% NOT ON steroids. Every newbie that comes along wanting to know what cycle to run gets told "just train hard and eat, and 9 times outta 10 that will be enough to do 90% of what you wanna accomplish". Always seems pretty hypocritical to see that suggested and then to see the same poster who just gave out that advice going on about their newest 5-compound cycle they're running, or how SUPER CRAZY TREN MAKES THEM (but they're starting on it again soon), but probably if most were to be 100% honest they probably never would've got started down the AAS road either. It sure seems like one hell of a Pandora's box

 

[Meetketchup]

Nothing but respect for that post. Perfectly said.