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Test + Deca vs. just more Test on TRT

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healthyaf808

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I'm currently on 120mg of Test Cyp a week for TRT. Have been considering adding Deca at ~80mg for added lean mass and sure some joint relief would be great. There are obviously tons of questions and videos discussing this. My question is would I gain more muscle by just increasing T dose to ~200mg rather than using Deca + Test. Also side effect wise it's hit or miss with Deca, but seems fair to say that for most 200mg of Test would produce less sides than some combination of Deca + Test = 200mg.
 
Deca is HALF as strong as Testosterone. Google it.;)
Deca is super nice to the joints and yes, you will still grow on deca.
 
Deca mg for mg on par if not better at producing muscle according to lot of studies and summarized here:


Deca gains are dry vs. water retention on Test. Anyhow just curious re my original question. Deca + Test or just add more Test. Deca just concerns me because of the potential sides (mental, cardiovascular, neurological, etc).
 
Testosterone 100:100 Anabolic/ Androgenic.
Deca Durabolin 125:37 Anabolic / Androgenic.
AND Deca gains are not dry.. if you want a dry 19-nor look at NPP.
Testosterone can be dry all day long... Bloodwork to get you E2 checked to dial in an AI (If even needed)
Deca is wonderful for pain relief, muscle building (due to its action on nitrogen retention.)
And like you say... some people cant handle the mental sides Deca gives... Makes me depressed if I run too much or too long.
 
Ya NPP same compound just shorter half life. But to my original question that I've really not heard anyone answer is what will produce more gains?: 120mg Test + 80mg Deca or simply 200mg Test.
 
healthyaf808 said:
I'm currently on 120mg of Test Cyp a week for TRT. Have been considering adding Deca at ~80mg for added lean mass and sure some joint relief would be great. There are obviously tons of questions and videos discussing this. My question is would I gain more muscle by just increasing T dose to ~200mg rather than using Deca + Test. Also side effect wise it's hit or miss with Deca, but seems fair to say that for most 200mg of Test would produce less sides than some combination of Deca + Test = 200mg.
Click to expand...
Stick with test only.
 
healthyaf808 said:
Ya NPP same compound just shorter half life. But to my original question that I've really not heard anyone answer is what will produce more gains?: 120mg Test + 80mg Deca or simply 200mg Test.
Click to expand...
Nobody can answer that, we all have different genetics and are some people are hyper responders.. Like me and Winstrol
I know if I did 80mg of deca a week... I might feel some slight joint relief but wouldnt get much from it.
 
healthyaf808 said:
Ya NPP same compound just shorter half life. But to my original question that I've really not heard anyone answer is what will produce more gains?: 120mg Test + 80mg Deca or simply 200mg Test.
Click to expand...
Brother you are on trt not cycling. Gains come from eating, working out and gear. 80 additional MG is not going to do jack except raising your test levels to a higher range.
 
Nice thanks guys. My thought is higher dose should equal more gains all else equal. I know once you get to a certain level there's diminishing returns and receptor burnout etc. But like you said Wiseguy we're talking TRT not cycling. So bumping your dosage should equate to more LBM. A few studies also showing that 150mg of Deca only produced more gains than 250mg test. Some guys have said relatively low doses ~100mg or even less in added to TRT have added LBM.
 
Trial and error my friend ! Gotta stick with a schedule ; take notes of stats and your own “look” plus how your clothes start changing (hopefully in good areas ) . Nothing better than having to tighten a belt or need a size larger T- shirt .

I like even 50mg nandrolone added but, that is personal preference after 8-9 year of TRT (and I’ve done all mg and forms besides (patches creams and gels . I always stick with good old male testosterone and had them adjust it as my bloods or my feedback . No nandrolone was used for (many years ) . I did like 100mg Test E over 200mg Cyp at one point(but it doesn’t apply as I had trained a decade before that.

Deca is strong ; for older gentlemen who have had injuries or Arthritis (holy shit , they like it )
Some stopped pain meds after(which is always good to hear ).

Just a little 411 for ya!

Max
 
SB Labs
Appreciate the insight Max! I'm with you and frankly just started TRT so will roll with it a little longer before I make any adjustments. 5'10, 200lbs, 8ish % bf w/ no TRT, so I'm sure will add some LBM and already feeling better all around. Tempted to give the Deca to my 76 year old Dad to help with his arthritis and heal from hip / shoulder surgeries as he's in great shape otherwise, but oftentimes has debilitating pain. MD's would rather give painkillers, but sounds like Deca could really help.
 
Just get the deca (for you, not your dad), run it at 200mg/wk with your test. You’ll love it.

There’s some sort of healing peptide out there that pro athletes use to accelerate recovery from injuries and stuff. Idk what it’s called but it’s like magic from what I’ve heard. That might be better for your dad than completely crushing whatever is left of his test with a 19-nor in an effort to help his joints feel better lol
 
There's a lot of solids here that gave you some pretty sound advice.
Nandrolone at low dosages is merely therapeutical and complementary.
It's not entirely necessary, but at a very low therapeutic dosage you can see some returns with nagging injuries, and joint pains diminishing quite a bit.
If I was to toss in my two cents, Jack up your test just a little bit, Test only or some of my favorites. It's much better with pinpointing sides, where to make some adjustments, and it keeps things narrow without looking at potential influencing characters.

What are your numbers at 125?
Free test and total, and SHBG?
Why not toss in some Mast at a 2/2 ratio?
You'll feel amazing.
Mast will do nothing for mass building or lean tissue building, with test it will compliment it's functionalities and that's where you mean tissue building, and new fiber growth will accumulate.

For guys like you that are very comfortable and satisfied within this scope of dosages, mast is the way to go if you're to add anything.

If you pulled bloods on a 2 to 2 ratio with test and mast, you'll see what I'm talking about.

And coach has a good question, where did 80 come from?
 
Deca is not for dry/lean gains. Try NPP instead and at least if you dont like it, it will be out of your system significantly faster. As Vision said, Mast is a good option. I love its' effects but it destroys your hair. I've never lost more hair than when I did Mast. I didnt even know until my wife came to me one day and told me I had a bald spot on top of my head. I had great hair up until that 12 weeks of Mast. It fucked me. I've recouped some back using Rogaine but it will never be where it was before the Mast. Luckily I'm 6' 6" so only NBA players would be able to see the top of my head.
 
I’d love to know where you can up with 80mg?
Would put my test dose @ 50% higher than Deca. Was just using as a reference for my original question about effectiveness of Deca + Test or just Test.

Vision said:
What are your numbers at 125?
Free test and total, and SHBG?
Click to expand...
Total at 895 and my clinic doesn’t test for free T or SHBG so ordering them myself when I test next month.

Mast would be great but I’m trying to keep every strand of hair on my head!
 
healthyaf808 said:
Deca mg for mg on par if not better at producing muscle according to lot of studies and summarized here:


Deca gains are dry vs. water retention on Test. Anyhow just curious re my original question. Deca + Test or just add more Test. Deca just concerns me because of the potential sides (mental, cardiovascular, neurological, etc).
Click to expand...
Deca is far from dry gains. If you have ever used it you will see that most people retain a lot of water. I love deca and run it or NPP all year and with every cycle. I don’t usually have a water retention problem but I do some. But the moon face definitely happens at higher doses lol. That’s why people run it with dbol frequently it because they blow up quick.
 
I love deca for joint relief. However I don’t run trt yet so I still cycle on and off. Deca is my go to in a bulking mass cycle. I always put on good mass at as little as 300mg per wk while keeping my test at 375-500mg per wk. I still make significant gains without using a gram of gear.
 
Boykinben82 said:
Deca is far from dry gains. If you have ever used it you will see that most people retain a lot of water. I love deca and run it or NPP all year and with every cycle. I don’t usually have a water retention problem but I do some. But the moon face definitely happens at higher doses lol. That’s why people run it with dbol frequently it be they blow up quick.
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I am not a fan of Deca at all. People swear by it and thats fine. I like the hard dry look. The moon face puffy is not for me.
Also, if you are using deca you better watch your salt intake. It will add and hold water weight like crazy.
 
Deca definitely adds some water weight. NPP doesn’t hold water anything like Deca IMO. I do not feel the same joint relief on NPP either.
 
Wiseguy said:
I am not a fan of Deca at all. People swear by it and thats fine. I like the hard dry look. The moon face puffy is not for me.
Also, if you are using deca you better watch your salt intake. It will add and hold water weight like crazy.
Click to expand...
I typically don’t hold a lot of water. But I eat healthy and watch my salt.
 
Wardamn said:
@healthyaf808 80mg of deca won't produce much in terms of muscle accrual. Do you have your bloodwork off of 120mg Test? If anything I would look at raising your test dose over adding deca.
Click to expand...
I was at 895 total test on 120mg a week (60mg 2x a week). They don’t test for free T or SHBG so will get that done next month on my own. Was hoping I wouldn’t need AI but my e2 was 85. Started taking .25 Arimidex twice a week, while changing my injection to every 3 days which equates to 140mg a week.

Think I’ll shelve the Deca for now and see where I’m at on 140mg of Test. Appreciate the insight everyone.
 

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