Debate #5....Tren..pros vs. cons..!!

[zionoir626]

Hopefully, this thread of Pros and cons on Tren usage, will be informative to both experienced users and Newbies..

Is it everything they Say..???
5 to 10 times stronger than Test..??
What's a respected dose and duration..??
What level should you be at..before considering use..???
Sides..??
AND...
When to stop everything..?????

I don't usually give advice or direction on compounds I haven't used before..
But Tren...I jumped in with both feet..
Now...I don't blow smoke...
I had a good 5 to 6 cycles done...some good many less than expected results (different thread)...

First use was nearly 15 plus yrs...
Tren E...
Back then, very few UGL's. And no Forums to bounce things off...Bill P. Muscle Media..
I always start out low, with a new compound..
Being E..would expected results around wk 3 or 4...but sides come earlier..

Now...my first Tren run was the Best Cycle..ever..Period..
The numbers say it all...
Or
Does It..???

Yes..all my PR's..that I never even tried to break..
At 42 yrs....PR's..
Incline Bench...315lbs for 4 reps...
Bent Over Rows...315 two sets of 6..
Wide grip pull ups..2 sets of 6...with 2 plates..!!
T-bar...ten plates
Upright Rows 155lbs...
Seated Overhead Military Press barbell...245lbs....4 reps..

Compounds...
Tren E...100mgs/wk....that's right only 100mgs a week..
EQ blend..of three esters..300mgs a wk..
And
Dbol 25mgs a day for 4 wks..
No Test base...low doses..could have eaten much better...

But...
Temper through the roof...always picking on people (personal hobby)..
BP. high as Hell..sweating like a whole shaking the Pope's hand..
Angry even asleep..lol

I'm giving my Tren away..and if you know me..
It's from the Man...Church..!!

Above 40...
They're Compounds that time Out...
The Reward doesn't come even close to the Risk...

So...In conclusion..
Need to have more than a few successful cycles under your belt...
Understand bloodwork and what rises during On...
Know what AI's do what..what works for you..
Tren doesn't usually cause Estrogen problems, BUT...
Everyone responds differently..
Know how to eat properly..good recovery protocols and have a coach or know your shit..

Knowing these things drastically increases you results in the Mirror..
And....
If you don't know the things I've highlighted...
And...
Future others...Vets and Newbies suggestions or points of concern.
Don't waste you time and money on a Tren run..
Cheers..
Z...

 

[Matt88]

Long post warning.

I did a 11 week tren ace run back in the summer.
I used it entirely to early in my fitness journey.
I dosed it to high. My dosages ranged from 350-420mg and actually tried 490mg for a short time.
ED pins yielded less sides for me than EOD.
Mental sides was intense. Constantly paranoid about my wife (who is the most loyal woman I've ever met and in 8 + yrs together she's been 100% faithful and loyal). I over thought everything. Wanted to rip people out of their vehicle for driving stupid (what I considered stupid at the time). Never did though thankfully.
Terrible night sweats. Lethergic and just blah.

The worst sides came when i ended the run. As the tren was leaving my system i had horrible mood swings which involved a lot of crying and sadness from dumb shit I'd done in my past. Guilt. It was shit I needed to deal with anyway and hadn't. So a good thing? Bad thing? Both I'd say.

Labs at the end of the run showered AST/ALT elevation so the tren was definitely toxic to my liver. 11 weeks is a long time to be shitting on your liver imo. Which is why we say toxic orals should only be run for 4 weeks or so. So 8 weeks on that tren run would of been better. The sides got worse the last few weeks of the run too so yet another reason 8 wks for this tren ace run would of been better.

My e2 was in the dirt. I made the BIG mistake (yes another one) to use Masteron for the first time as I used tren for the first time. So I had my test and mast dosages to close together + using an AI so my e2 was in the dirt. 1 new compound at a time boys......

Was on an SSRI at the time that I'd been on for a few years. I have since then gotten off the ssri so I want to try tren again at lower dosages in the future. I now use natural alternatives with Gaba being at the front and center of what helps me. Pretty sure the SSRI was causing chronically elevated prolactin based on the lab work I've had (studies support this). Not enough data points and to many variables to say for certain though.

My insulin sensitivity was insane. My glucose would crash all the time. Had to carry gummies in my pocket at work bc when it dropped it dropped hard and fast. Complex carb meals only lasted around 2 hours b4 blood suger started dropping. I was cutting so this was problematic.


Personal takeaways for me utilize during my next run in the future.
1. Keep the dosage LOWER. More is not always better.
2. I want to try E or hex to see how sides compare for me.
3. Make sure I'm not keeping my e2 in the dirt.
4. Never try two new compounds at once.
5. I've learned a ton since that run and I'm learning more daily so next time I'll be much more prepared.
6. I'm still a newbie. I am constantly learning and I crave knowledge like a crack head craves crack so anxious to see replies to this thread.

It will likely be a while bc im currently dealing with adrenal insufficiency that I'm sure the tren and mast contributed to. But, the next time will be much better!!

 

[badgerz94]

Tren once turned me gray (no exaggeration). I ended up in the ER with a BP of 190/140. I thought I was dying. When I got home, I put my remaining Tren vials in the garbage and never touched it again. I don't see any reason to use Tren. With a dialed in diet and cardio, I can use safer compounds and look 95% as good as I would using Tren and that other 5% isn't worth the health risk let alone my life.

 

[macjohn64]

21 yrs ago the only supplement i did before a show. it worked good for that and as the weight came down i was getting extremely stronger. i had to be careful i didn't hurt myself. lol

 

[zionoir626]

Nice Reviews...
Z...

 

[Nats]

I had CHAOS with tren. It's certainly not for everyone. My bp sky rocketed, I hated everything and everyone, I couldn't get myself to even work out.

If you have issues with tren - my suggestion would be give DHB a try. That stuff works wonders for me. I don't have pip issues like some people do with it. I see massive gains on it. In my opinion it's like mild tren.

Just my 2 cents.



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[Draig]

Long post warning.

I did a 11 week tren ace run back in the summer.
I used it entirely to early in my fitness journey.
I dosed it to high. My dosages ranged from 350-420mg and actually tried 490mg for a short time.
ED pins yielded less sides for me than EOD.
Mental sides was intense. Constantly paranoid about my wife (who is the most loyal woman I've ever met and in 8 + yrs together she's been 100% faithful and loyal). I over thought everything. Wanted to rip people out of their vehicle for driving stupid (what I considered stupid at the time). Never did though thankfully.
Terrible night sweats. Lethergic and just blah.

The worst sides came when i ended the run. As the tren was leaving my system i had horrible mood swings which involved a lot of crying and sadness from dumb shit I'd done in my past. Guilt. It was shit I needed to deal with anyway and hadn't. So a good thing? Bad thing? Both I'd say.

Labs at the end of the run showered AST/ALT elevation so the tren was definitely toxic to my liver. 11 weeks is a long time to be shitting on your liver imo. Which is why we say toxic orals should only be run for 4 weeks or so. So 8 weeks on that tren run would of been better. The sides got worse the last few weeks of the run too so yet another reason 8 wks for this tren ace run would of been better.

My e2 was in the dirt. I made the BIG mistake (yes another one) to use Masteron for the first time as I used tren for the first time. So I had my test and mast dosages to close together + using an AI so my e2 was in the dirt. 1 new compound at a time boys......

Was on an SSRI at the time that I'd been on for a few years. I have since then gotten off the ssri so I want to try tren again at lower dosages in the future. I now use natural alternatives with Gaba being at the front and center of what helps me. Pretty sure the SSRI was causing chronically elevated prolactin based on the lab work I've had (studies support this). Not enough data points and to many variables to say for certain though.

My insulin sensitivity was insane. My glucose would crash all the time. Had to carry gummies in my pocket at work bc when it dropped it dropped hard and fast. Complex carb meals only lasted around 2 hours b4 blood suger started dropping. I was cutting so this was problematic.


Personal takeaways for me utilize during my next run in the future.
1. Keep the dosage LOWER. More is not always better.
2. I want to try E or hex to see how sides compare for me.
3. Make sure I'm not keeping my e2 in the dirt.
4. Never try two new compounds at once.
5. I've learned a ton since that run and I'm learning more daily so next time I'll be much more prepared.
6. I'm still a newbie. I am constantly learning and I crave knowledge like a crack head craves crack so anxious to see replies to this thread.

It will likely be a while bc im currently dealing with adrenal insufficiency that I'm sure the tren and mast contributed to. But, the next time will be much better!!

Great write up Matt, as usual.



List Available Here

 

[zionoir626]

This is great insight...
Not just to the guy on the Fence, but also a reminder of how it fucks with everything in One's life..
Only things close to the negative sides..
Halo...Test Suspension in H2O..
Over 40...it's a life shortening Compound..
Period...
Below 40...
Know your shit..before trying Tren..or be prepared for the Hell that follows...

Tips not expressed enough..
Z...

 

[big_rich]

I love tren. Issues I had where stinky night sweats and felt.my wife wad cheating on me 24 7 and had depression but I looked the best I ever have while on tren. Looked the best deff didn't feel the best. I love the on feeling I get from tren. Will be using tren for my summer cut I always keep my doses low especially with trwn 300 or less and I have only ran ace.

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[zionoir626]

The Mental sides can really spiral out on You..
Listen,it's hard enough hiding gear from people..not just the Gains..but the aggression, anger, rage and mood swings..
But Tren...
Times 10...the list above..
Not many can be objective on Tren..
More isn't Better..with Tren..
Stop when the Gains are good..
And,the sides are tolerable...Best tip I know with Tren..
Z...

 

[littlegainsinmass]

I had CHAOS with tren. It's certainly not for everyone. My bp sky rocketed, I hated everything and everyone, I couldn't get myself to even work out.

If you have issues with tren - my suggestion would be give DHB a try. That stuff works wonders for me. I don't have pip issues like some people do with it. I see massive gains on it. In my opinion it's like mild tren.

Just my 2 cents.



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what is DHB?

 

[Nats]

what is DHB?

1- test cyp.
Take a look at it. Great gains at lower doses. Much more tolerable and very effective.

On paper, DHB has an anabolic to androgenic ratio of 200/100. If these figures don't tell you much, we can remind you that testosterone's ratio is exactly 100 (1[00:10]0), so DHB is twice as anabolic as testosterone. However, lets not forget that ratios given to anabolic androgenic steroids (AAS) can be misleading. Hence, DHB is actually very minimally androgenic, so such side effects as aggression and blood pressure are going to be lower than with other steroids. Moreover, compared to other compounds, DHB is very mild, so it does not cause major stress on the kidneys.

As mentioned above, DHB is very anabolic, which means it should give you some nice lean muscle gains. Interestingly, DHB is more anabolic than testosterone, equipoise, and deca durabolin. Furthermore, to put icing on the cake, it does not aromatize. Therefore, there is no need to worry about estrogenic side effects like gynecomastia or water retention. All in all, it is a great pre-contest hormone, and if you are looking for a compound that will give you slobs of water weight gains, and move the scale, then DHB isn't for you.

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[Nats]

This chart is always useful.

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[Kwise1]

I love the results from test/tren even running a small dose of 1/2 ml tren a week. Bit of night sweats and heartburn. The issue is it kills my hair. I’m doing a test/tren/ tbol running under 1/2 tren now and it still affects the hair even using a topical finasteride. It’s a love hate relationship.

 

[zionoir626]

But Remember...
What looks good on paper...
Doesn't always work that way..
And usually, isn't respected enough and real problems Arise..
MC
Z...

 

[Astro95]

Tren is like having a wife. There’s a very fine line between loving it and hating it and it all comes down to dosage. Never tried Hex hopefully I will soon, but between Ace and E is like drinking an 8% beer and a light beer, yes you’re still drinking beer, but it ain’t the same.

 

[littlegainsinmass]

1- test cyp.
Take a look at it. Great gains at lower doses. Much more tolerable and very effective.

On paper, DHB has an anabolic to androgenic ratio of 200/100. If these figures don't tell you much, we can remind you that testosterone's ratio is exactly 100 (1[00:10]0), so DHB is twice as anabolic as testosterone. However, lets not forget that ratios given to anabolic androgenic steroids (AAS) can be misleading. Hence, DHB is actually very minimally androgenic, so such side effects as aggression and blood pressure are going to be lower than with other steroids. Moreover, compared to other compounds, DHB is very mild, so it does not cause major stress on the kidneys.

As mentioned above, DHB is very anabolic, which means it should give you some nice lean muscle gains. Interestingly, DHB is more anabolic than testosterone, equipoise, and deca durabolin. Furthermore, to put icing on the cake, it does not aromatize. Therefore, there is no need to worry about estrogenic side effects like gynecomastia or water retention. All in all, it is a great pre-contest hormone, and if you are looking for a compound that will give you slobs of water weight gains, and move the scale, then DHB isn't for you.

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great. I just posted a new thread looking for some advice. what's Is the recommended dose for DHB. I have been doing research since I replied to your post and it seems it's just what I'm looking for. if you have a minute check out thread I just posted about 2 hours ago.

 

[Wiseguy]

I love tren. Never had anger, mood issues. No sleeping issues nothing. As a matter of fact the only side inexperienced in tren cough about 3 times per eight week cycle. I have figured how to minimize and recover within a minute so uncomfortable but manageable.

Now with that said I never ever run it more than 300mg per week.

300 tren
300 test
300 mast
400 primo
50 mg var
25 mg proviron

Absolutely the best cycle. Lean hard look that nothing compares.

Any drug you abuse will kick your ass. It’s not about the dosage, it’s the combinations, goals, diet and training.

Anyway this is strictly from my experience

 

[Bpark365]

Ace at 350/wk for 6 weeks. found that my “mood swings” were really just drops in blood sugar. Looked great, mentally felt pretty good aside from being incredibly horny and feeling a need for more extreme sex. Found myself attracted to women that I never would’ve been otherwise honestly. a chunky girl with a cute face could get her ass worshipped all day. I honestly expected much much worse which is why I don’t necessarily believe that sides are as pronounced as everyone likes the say. Now physically my urine was orange/brown no matter how much fucking water I drank and my cardio was pure shit. 500mg of Tylenol made me nauseated so obviously my liver was stressed. All in all, unless I was being paid to go on stage I wouldn’t mess with it again. Just no reason imo.

 

[jrogers2232008]

I love tren. Issues I had where stinky night sweats and felt.my wife wad cheating on me 24 7 and had depression but I looked the best I ever have while on tren. Looked the best deff didn't feel the best. I love the on feeling I get from tren. Will be using tren for my summer cut I always keep my doses low especially with trwn 300 or less and I have only ran ace.

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I am looking into a summer cut, Tren Ace at 225 mgs a week, Test 500 mgs a week, Masteron 400mgs a week, clen (standard 2 week on/off protocol) and 30 mgs winstrol, I have done tren e in the past and 400mgs a week gave me sides, I then went to 200 mgs a week and it worked wonders for me, whats your thoughts on the ace? should I go 225mgs a week or bump it to 300 mgs

 

[Astro95]

I am looking into a summer cut, Tren Ace at 225 mgs a week, Test 500 mgs a week, Masteron 400mgs a week, clen (standard 2 week on/off protocol) and 30 mgs winstrol, I have done tren e in the past and 400mgs a week gave me sides, I then went to 200 mgs a week and it worked wonders for me, whats your thoughts on the ace? should I go 225mgs a week or bump it to 300 mgs

Start low with Ace, hits way different than E. Work your way up to 300 if you can.

 

[Meetketchup]

I am in no way saying tren is safe nor do I recommend it for non competitors, young kids or mentally unstable people, but some of the "absolute" statements in this thread are a bit extreme. It's like any powerful drug...it can carry very harsh risks, but can be greatly minimized if ran conservatively and sparingly, while monitoring vitals under doctor supervision. We all know the physical risks that come with it, but the mental side are also a challenge. However, the idea that it makes a very calm and patient person irrational and fly off the handle are a bit much. Some people are hyper responders to all steroids, but if you are aggressive, anxious, impulsive or have an addicting personality, then tren will enhance those traits. Definitely a life shortening compound? Well, you can say that about a lot of drugs. If you run a 6-8 week cycle one a year or so before a contest at a low dose, while getting bloodwork and monitoring blood pressure...you're not going to the morgue.

The key is low doses...for short periods...used sparingly mostly pre contest. If you experience sides that you are uncomfortable with, then stop. This should be the case with most steroids not just tren.

The problem is that it works so f'ing well and people think more is better, when you literally just need a pinch to transform your body composition.

 

[Matt88]

I am looking into a summer cut, Tren Ace at 225 mgs a week, Test 500 mgs a week, Masteron 400mgs a week, clen (standard 2 week on/off protocol) and 30 mgs winstrol, I have done tren e in the past and 400mgs a week gave me sides, I then went to 200 mgs a week and it worked wonders for me, whats your thoughts on the ace? should I go 225mgs a week or bump it to 300 mgs

Always better to start low and work your way up on new compounds regardless of what it is imo. You don't have to wait long to feel ace dosage changes.

 

[Wiseguy]

I am looking into a summer cut, Tren Ace at 225 mgs a week, Test 500 mgs a week, Masteron 400mgs a week, clen (standard 2 week on/off protocol) and 30 mgs winstrol, I have done tren e in the past and 400mgs a week gave me sides, I then went to 200 mgs a week and it worked wonders for me, whats your thoughts on the ace? should I go 225mgs a week or bump it to 300 mgs

I would start with 225.

 

[Matt88]

I am looking into a summer cut, Tren Ace at 225 mgs a week, Test 500 mgs a week, Masteron 400mgs a week, clen (standard 2 week on/off protocol) and 30 mgs winstrol, I have done tren e in the past and 400mgs a week gave me sides, I then went to 200 mgs a week and it worked wonders for me, whats your thoughts on the ace? should I go 225mgs a week or bump it to 300 mgs

Also, Go easy on that liver in terms of orals duratio, tren duration etc. You had problems before so you're gonna be prone to problems again.

 

[jrogers2232008]

Also, Go easy on that liver in terms of orals duratio, tren duration etc. You had problems before so you're gonna be prone to problems again.

Thanks Matt and Acknowledge, after this I am going to a PCT protocol then running TRT doses afterwards, When I lowered the tren e dose to 200 mgs a week I felt 10 times better, sides subsided however the aggression was still there, I did not lose any strength,

 

[jrogers2232008]

I am in no way saying tren is safe nor do I recommend it for non competitors, young kids or mentally unstable people, but some of the "absolute" statements in this thread are a bit extreme. It's like any powerful drug...it can carry very harsh risks, but can be greatly minimized if ran conservatively and sparingly, while monitoring vitals under doctor supervision. We all know the physical risks that come with it, but the mental side are also a challenge. However, the idea that it makes a very calm and patient person irrational and fly off the handle are a bit much. Some people are hyper responders to all steroids, but if you are aggressive, anxious, impulsive or have an addicting personality, then tren will enhance those traits. Definitely a life shortening compound? Well, you can say that about a lot of drugs. If you run a 6-8 week cycle one a year or so before a contest at a low dose, while getting bloodwork and monitoring blood pressure...you're not going to the morgue.

The key is low doses...for short periods...used sparingly mostly pre contest. If you experience sides that you are uncomfortable with, then stop. This should be the case with most steroids not just tren.

The problem is that it works so f'ing well and people think more is better, when you literally just need a pinch to transform your body composition.

I learned the hard way, more is not better, more gives you shitty side effects to where it effects/affects the quality of your workouts, When I got shaky and lethargic, I could barely workout and had not motivation, Low doses fixed that trick, You live and learn

 

[zionoir626]

I learned the hard way, more is not better, more gives you shitty side effects to where it effects/affects the quality of your workouts, When I got shaky and lethargic, I could barely workout and had not motivation, Low doses fixed that trick, You live and learn

Brother....
We could use your Help...
New guys often think the Vets are Bull Shitting them or holding them back..
You have been knocked down and learned some valuable lessons..

If you could take a little time and chime in..give them your perspective, your errors..
Perhaps, they will listen to someone that learned some hard truths..

We all need to remember to give Back to the Community..
I honestly think your POV...Would have weight..
Vets have a responsibility..
But New Members as Well..
You get..What you Give..
Z...

 

[jrogers2232008]

Brother....
We could use your Help...
New guys often think the Vets are Bull Shitting them or holding them back..
You have been knocked down and learned some valuable lessons..

If you could take a little time and chime in..give them your perspective, your errors..
Perhaps, they will listen to someone that learned some hard truths..

We all need to remember to give Back to the Community..
I honestly think your POV...Would have weight..
Vets have a responsibility..
But New Members as Well..
You get..What you Give..
Z...

Thanks Brotha, I will post a review today and create a new post, boy oh boy the newbs have much to learn, the term "side effects" is a real thing, I felt 50 times better at a lower dose, honestly at 200 mgs I never lost any strength, I kept the same body composition and felt way better than I did at 400 mgs of Tren E. I know taking more test/ deca will just make you look like a bloated blueberry, and more test/tren, well you are wasting the more test part and the more tren part just makes your feel sleepy, lethargic, shaky in the gym effecting all qualities of your daily life and motivation to work out, never in a million years will I go back to taking more of anything, less gives you the same result in 12-16 weeks at a much healthier state of well being

 

[jrogers2232008]

Brother....
We could use your Help...
New guys often think the Vets are Bull Shitting them or holding them back..
You have been knocked down and learned some valuable lessons..

If you could take a little time and chime in..give them your perspective, your errors..
Perhaps, they will listen to someone that learned some hard truths..

We all need to remember to give Back to the Community..
I honestly think your POV...Would have weight..
Vets have a responsibility..
But New Members as Well..
You get..What you Give..
Z...

Oh ya, Tren doesn't do shit if you diet is not on point lol, Dude I took winstrol, test and Tren and thought man I will look great regardless what I eat, Nope, I leaned down some but not below 13-14 percent, Training is 5% of your day, 95% of the rest of your day is what you eat by looking into your grocery buggy. I will def give some advice, I am 3 years on gear but along the way I have learned alot from my mistakes