Convince me not to run EQ & Primo like the happy couple I believe they are.

[asidphreak]

What's up guys and gals? So, I am itching to throw Primo into my next cycle as I can get a really good deal on it. The thing is I run Test/EQ at 500/600 as the "base" for my cycles. I've run 600mg-1,200mg, my levels stay nearly the same as below for either dosage. EQ loves me and I love EQ.

Here's what I've run in the past:

• Test/EQ Base: 500mg Test C and 600mg EQ weekly. I also donate double red blood cells every 16 weeks; 4 weeks prior, 13 weeks in, and last week of cycle.

Current Stats:

• Age: 43
• Gender: Male
• Height: 5' 9.75" <--Fuck off, lol.
• Weight: 185lbs
• Body Fat: 14-16%

Goal Stats:

• Weight: 190lbs - 200lbs
• Body Fat: 8-10%

Last Cycle Blood Work:

• Hematocrit: 47% - 50% (on/off cycle) - Donating plasma for 5 years, I get this, and protein checked twice a week when I donate off cycle.
• SHBG: 12
• RBC: 5.37
• E2: 23
• HDL: 28
• LDL: 142 (Exploring statin options - any suggestions for cycle safe statins?)
• Triglycerides: 88
• Cholesterol/HDL Ratio: 6.7
• Prolactin: 4
• Blood pressure: 134/82 <--Average

For my next cycle, I’m planning the fabled Bulk/Cut split (Fuck Around and Find Out Cycle) (19-week bulk / 8-week cut). Here’s how the last 8 weeks currently look:

• 500mg Test C
• 600mg EQ
• 50mg ED Var (adjust based on response)

I want to add Primo at 500mg for the last 8 weeks, so the final plan would be:

• 500mg Test C
• 500mg Primo
• 600mg EQ
• 50mg ED Var

Rationale for Adding Primo:

1. Lean Muscle Growth and Quality Gains: Both EQ and Primo promote lean muscle without significant water retention. Primo can potentially offset EQ's light water retention. Primo’s high anabolic to androgenic ratio makes it particularly effective for quality muscle gains.
2. Endurance and Recovery: EQ increases red blood cell production, which can significantly enhance endurance and recovery. Primo complements this by aiding muscle recovery and preventing excessive muscle breakdown.
3. Reduced Side Effects: EQ and Primo are relatively mild compared to other steroids. EQ is less likely to cause severe androgenic side effects, while Primo is known for its low androgenic activity and minimal liver toxicity. This combination could potentially lead to fewer side effects overall.
4. Synergistic Effects:
   • Enhanced Protein Synthesis and Nitrogen Retention: Both EQ and Primo are known to improve protein synthesis and nitrogen balance, crucial for muscle growth. Enhanced nitrogen retention means the body stays in an anabolic state, reducing muscle breakdown and supporting muscle growth.
   • Complementary Anabolic Pathways: Both steroids interact with androgen receptors and also affect other anabolic pathways, such as increasing IGF-1 levels, which can further enhance muscle growth.
   • Low Androgenic Load: The low androgenic activity of Primo and EQ means a lower risk of androgenic side effects like acne, hair loss, and prostate enlargement. Together, they provide substantial anabolic benefits while minimizing the potential for these issues.
5. Muscle Hardness and Dryness: Primo is well known for enhancing muscle hardness and vascularity. It contributes to a more defined and "drier" look, which can be particularly beneficial during the latter stages of a bulk or leading into a cut. The combination of EQ and Primo should help achieve a lean, hard physique and potentially subvert water retention.
6. Fat Loss and Lean Mass Preservation: Primo has a reputation for helping to preserve lean muscle mass while promoting fat loss, especially when paired with a proper diet and training regimen. It can help maintain muscle while reducing body fat (anecdotal), enhancing overall physique aesthetics.
7. Increased Metabolic Rate: Both EQ and Primo can have a mild effect on increasing metabolic rate, which can assist in fat loss. EQ does this through its impact on red blood cell production and overall metabolism, while Primo supports a more active and lean physique.

E2 Considerations:​

1. Testosterone (500mg Test C):
   • Testosterone is a potent aromatizer, converting into estrogen in the body at about a rate 20mg - 40mg of Estrogen / 100mg of Test C.
2. Equipoise (600mg EQ):
   • EQ has a much lower aromatization rate compared to testosterone. However, it can still convert to estrogen, though at roughly 50% of the rate of testosterone.
3. Primobolan (500mg Primo):
   • Primo does not aromatize into estrogen because it’s a DHT derivative. This means it won’t directly increase E2 levels. Instead, it can help manage estrogenic side effects indirectly by not contributing to estrogen buildup.
4. Anavar (50mg ED): Anavar does not aromatize and therefore does not affect E2 levels.

Potential E2 Impact:

• High E2 from Test: High E2 from testosterone.
• Moderate E2 from EQ: EQ’s aromatization could contribute to E2 elevation, but its impact is lower than that of testosterone.
• Neutral E2 from Primo: Since Primo doesn’t affect estrogen levels, it won’t directly impact my E2, but it could balance out some of the effects from the testosterone and EQ.

My Primary Concern: I know with just Test C @ 500mg my E2 sits at 92, but combined with 600mg of EQ it sits at 23. Primo if run 1:1 with Test can negate the need for an AI or at least allow for minimal use of an AI. Will the addition of Primo potentially crash my E2?

Thoughts? Concerns?

 

[Omoplata]

EQ is going to make you hot, elevate your kidney levels, cause high hematocrit and not truly give you the gains you seek unless you hit over 600mg which is basically asking for side effects to ramp. A lot of seasoned and in shape vets recommend not trying it. There are other compounds. Do what you will though sir. I hope the Risk is worth the Reward.

Remember, Kidneys, unlike the Liver and some organs, do NOT heal themselves when damaged. To see results with EQ, let alone have success, a 12-20 week cycle is necessary. 12 to 20 weeks for what another AAS can provide? You want quality size? Eat some whole food meals, take primo and test (maybe sustanon) and hit the gym like it's all you have. AAS is the smallest fraction of the equation.. quality size, strength and gains are made by lifting with intensity, volume and adequate rest. Using TEST/EQ/PRIMO/ANAVAR to get gains. IDK SIR, with that LDL. is it worth it?

 

[Jbswole40]

I'd run primo the whole time..and lower eq or mayb not at all..I'm not the biggest fan of eq

 

[JC33]

All the big guys on PM told me this. 1g test 1g eq insulin with meals, as much gh as you can afford.

Maybe @Wardamn can chime in I beleive he said eq is pretty benign and not everyone gets the crazy blood thickening sides from it.

Test and Primo is probably one of the most benign cycles you can run so maybe go that route. Don’t need the orals either.

 

[Veneficus]

Lovely presentation. I have no experience with EQ but just wanted to compliment the layout.

 

[JC33]

Lovely presentation. I have no experience with EQ but just wanted to compliment the layout.

Dude I couldn’t agree more. This man’s educated

 

[Dano22]

EQ for life ! Love the stuff ! If I could afford primo at good doses every cycle I’d definitely leave EQ out though

 

[JC33]

EQ for life ! Love the stuff ! If I could afford primo at good doses every cycle I’d definitely leave EQ out though

In your opinion what puts on more muscle between the 2?

 

[Omoplata]

In your opinion what puts on more muscle between the 2?

Fuck opinion. Which one scientifcally puts on muscle and helps retain it with less sides

 

[JC33]

Fuck opinion. Which one scientifcally puts on muscle and helps retain it with less sides

I guess the smart thing to do would be run them both at high doses

 

[Omoplata]

I guess the smart thing to do would be run them both at high doses

LOL you're literally missing running high doses, I smell it off you, you high-testosterone male

 

[JC33]

LOL you're literally missing running high doses, I smell it off you, you high-testosterone male

I was just being silly. I’m an absolute wreck right now! Don’t be like me! In all seriousness Primo is more than likely way safer than eq but there are some big morherfuckers that swear by it. Got me curious. I was about to run it high, but I’m a quitter and didn’t follow through

 

[Omoplata]

I was just being silly. I’m an absolute wreck right now! Don’t be like me! In all seriousness Primo is more than likely way safer than eq but there are some big morherfuckers that swear by it. Got me curious. I was about to run it high, but I’m a quitter and didn’t follow through

I'd like to see you stay around big homie, you recomped like a beast without EQ right

 

[Glycomann]

Any time I ran Test/Primo/EQ it was great. Very full, lean and strong. I do feel lethargic towards the end though. EQ kicks in right away for me the way I use it so there is that.

 

[302]

Any time I ran Test/Primo/EQ it was great. Very full, lean and strong. I do feel lethargic towards the end though. EQ kicks in right away for me the way I use it so there is that.

Tell me more please how do you use it, the EQ. I’ve never ran it but I’d hope to get Ai benefits from it bc I aromatize like a bitch.

 

[JC33]

Tell me more please how do you use it, the EQ. I’ve never ran it but I’d hope to get Ai benefits from it bc I aromatize like a bitch.

I would also love to know

 

[asidphreak]

EQ is going to make you hot, elevate your kidney levels, cause high hematocrit and not truly give you the gains you seek unless you hit over 600mg which is basically asking for side effects to ramp. A lot of seasoned and in shape vets recommend not trying it. There are other compounds. Do what you will though sir. I hope the Risk is worth the Reward.

Remember, Kidneys, unlike the Liver and some organs, do NOT heal themselves when damaged. To see results with EQ, let alone have success, a 12-20 week cycle is necessary. 12 to 20 weeks for what another AAS can provide? You want quality size? Eat some whole food meals, take primo and test (maybe sustanon) and hit the gym like it's all you have. AAS is the smallest fraction of the equation.. quality size, strength and gains are made by lifting with intensity, volume and adequate rest. Using TEST/EQ/PRIMO/ANAVAR to get gains. IDK SIR, with that LDL. is it worth it?

See, I would tend to agree with the EQ commentary. Out of the 5 cycles I've completed, EQ @ 600mg except that one time I went to 1,200mg has been with me on all but 2 and like I said, other than my LDL it treats me very well! I couldn't imagine running a cycle without it. As for Hematocrit, lowest has been 47% and highest was 50%, which are both within range. I sit at 49% on cruise.

My eGFR, Urea, Sodium, Potassium, Calcium, and Phosphorous levels are always dead nuts in the middle. My only elevation was with Creatine, my doctor and I both concluded this to be from supplements. Stopped using Creatine as a supplement and it went back to normal range. So, I'm not overly worried about Kidney damage, though it is on my mind.

The LDL/HDL on the other hand, I'm with you on that, I'm trying to combat that, family history tells me this is genetic and exacerbated by the gear. But I believe it can be circumvented with a statin, I'm going to bring it up at my doctor visit on Aug. 1st. when I do my pre-cycle bloodwork, which I get done every 4 weeks. My lady doc would like me to do it every week if she had her way.

 

[asidphreak]

I'd run primo the whole time..and lower eq or mayb not at all..I'm not the biggest fan of eq

The deal I got aint that good bro. I wish!

 

[Omoplata]

See, I would tend to agree with the EQ commentary. Out of the 5 cycles I've completed, EQ @ 600mg except that one time I went to 1,200mg has been with me on all but 2 and like I said, other than my LDL it treats me very well! I couldn't imagine running a cycle without it. As for Hematocrit, lowest has been 47% and highest was 50%, which are both within range. I sit at 49% on cruise.

My eGFR, Urea, Sodium, Potassium, Calcium, and Phosphorous levels are always dead nuts in the middle. My only elevation was with Creatine, my doctor and I both concluded this to be from supplements. Stopped using Creatine as a supplement and it went back to normal range. So, I'm not overly worried about Kidney damage, though it is on my mind.

The LDL/HDL on the other hand, I'm with you on that, I'm trying to combat that, family history tells me this is genetic and exacerbated by the gear. But I believe it can be circumvented with a statin, I'm going to bring it up at my doctor visit on Aug. 1st. when I do my pre-cycle bloodwork, which I get done every 4 weeks. My lady doc would like me to do it every week if she had her way.

Okay sir, you're educated and technical. Respect.

All I can say is this to you: Look at the greats who have died.. all from cardiovascular issues. Kidney issues = high bp = cardiovascular stress = statins do not prevent death.

You're in your 40s. I mean this with respect, your health is literally crucial. I'm only speaking from the advice given to me by older, more experienced lifters, I have spoken to on this forum. They are all over 50.

 

[asidphreak]

Okay sir, you're educated and technical. Respect.

All I can say is this to you: Look at the greats who have died.. all from cardiovascular issues. Kidney issues = high bp = cardiovascular stress = statins do not prevent death.

You're in your 40s. I mean this with respect, your health is literally crucial. I'm only speaking from the advice given to me by older, more experienced lifters, I have spoken to on this forum. They are all over 50.

And I have mad respect for that brother and for your words of wisdom!

 

[asidphreak]

Any time I ran Test/Primo/EQ it was great. Very full, lean and strong. I do feel lethargic towards the end though. EQ kicks in right away for me the way I use it so there is that.

What numbers did you run this at?

 

[asidphreak]

EQ for life ! Love the stuff ! If I could afford primo at good doses every cycle I’d definitely leave EQ out though

I love the stuff. originally, I wanted it for "lean gains" but once I figured out that I could eat 8k calories pretty much non-stop. I started using it more as cycle support. I do like the gains I get from it though, as little as they may be.

 

[JohnMcc]

Tell me more please how do you use it, the EQ. I’ve never ran it but I’d hope to get Ai benefits from it bc I aromatize like a bitch.

I like primo or eq along side my test for the same reason.

 

[asidphreak]

This a rough draft of the cycle I intend to run. It may help to add context.

C1-4 - Indicates cruise

Test/EQ/hCG have been run for 3 cycles at this dose with FL.

Adding Anadrol and Anavar to this for the first time. I'm also erring on the side of caution with Anadrol and running it in 2-week blasts, I might even go with 1-week blasts. I'm not sure yet.

Good deal on Primo got me thinking to add it in. So, it would be 3 new compounds on this cycle, two of them running together (Primo & Anavar)

BP/Kidney/Liver/Hair support are run year-round. Albeit lower doses while on cruise. Except for the Cialis and Finasteride, they stay the same. I have Dr prescribed Lisinopril on hand to make the switch if need be to replace the Cialis. This helps with BP, Water, and Kidney protection, I may switch to this for the cycle, though I will miss my friend Cialis.

x2 RBC donated 4 weeks before / 13 weeks in / End of cycle. The preemptive x2 donation before cycle really helps a ton with EQ.

Nolvadex on hand for the Anadrol gyno, if/when.

Test/EQ/hCG combo, I have no need for an AI but have Aromasin on hand just in case.

Weeks 1-18 Bulk w/ 3769 cals
Weeks 19 - 27 Cut w/ 3000 cals.

Zyprexa to stave off my mood swings.

Once this is actually complete, I will then send this to my Dr for review. She will then do her own research and advise how to safely complete the cycle and monitoring me every step of the way.

Let the wolves bite.....

 

[Omoplata]

This a rough draft of the cycle I intend to run. It may help to add context.

C1-4 - Indicates cruise

Test/EQ/hCG have been run for 3 cycles at this dose with FL.

Adding Anadrol and Anavar to this for the first time. I'm also erring on the side of caution with Anadrol and running it in 2-week blasts, I might even go with 1-week blasts. I'm not sure yet.

Good deal on Primo got me thinking to add it in. So, it would be 3 new compounds on this cycle, two of them running together (Primo & Anavar)

BP/Kidney/Liver/Hair support are run year-round. Albeit lower doses while on cruise. Except for the Cialis and Finasteride, they stay the same. I have Dr prescribed Lisinopril on hand to make the switch if need be to replace the Cialis. This helps with BP, Water, and Kidney protection, I may switch to this for the cycle, though I will miss my friend Cialis.

x2 RBC donated 4 weeks before / 13 weeks in / End of cycle. The preemptive x2 donation before cycle really helps a ton with EQ.

Nolvadex on hand for the Anadrol gyno, if/when.

Test/EQ/hCG combo, I have no need for an AI but have Aromasin on hand just in case.

Weeks 1-18 Bulk w/ 3769 cals
Weeks 19 - 27 Cut w/ 3000 cals.

Zyprexa to stave off my mood swings.

Once this is actually complete, I will then send this to my Dr for review. She will then do her own research and advise how to safely complete the cycle and monitoring me every step of the way.

Let the wolves bite.....



View attachment 142719

NOW THIS, THIS is what my OCD likes. Sheeesh.

 

[Glycomann]

What numbers did you run this at?

I ran things lower than most. If you run things high you might need more. For me Test/Primo/EQ 300/300/250-500 plus a little GH.

 

[asidphreak]

NOW THIS, THIS is what my OCD likes. Sheeesh.

Yeah, I thought that might help a bit.

 

[Omoplata]

Yeah, I thought that might help a bit.

The Astralagus root, where do you purchase it sir?

 

[asidphreak]

I ran things lower than most. If you run things high you might need more. For me Test/Primo/EQ 300/300/250-500 plus a little GH.

Not bad at all, still respectable doses. No lie it will take me some time to get comfortable with GH, I'm also not sure if it would be conducive to what I'm trying to achieve. It took 5 years and 6 cycles to get the courage to add an oral.

 

[chadmack]

I'd run primo the whole time..and lower eq or mayb not at all..I'm not the biggest fan of eq

U don't like ketchup in your veins?
Neither do I !!