Cant sleep on primo

[Mtoesshoes]

Just on 400 primo per week 10 days in and at night I'm just not tired and find myself barely sleeping, is this normal? Would a higher doss make this worse as I see most people doing at least 700 primo per week. Was planning on stacking low dose NPP for 6 weeks and oral winny for the middle 4 weeks for a stack then slowly go back to just primo and cut with anavar or tbol at the end. But if I have to remove primo due to no sleep I'd probably just up the NPP. Thoughts?

 

[Mtoesshoes]

Also on 2.5 ui of hgh daily. Just trying to get strong without bulking too heavy after a bad bunch of injuries(non lifting) a couple years ago

 

[Matt88]

How much test are you running with it?

 

[Mtoesshoes]

How much test are you running with it?

250/week

 

[Mtoesshoes]

250/week

Test e if that matters

 

[BBruce]

I don’t think it would happen in 10days but Primo could lower your E and that will make it hard to sleep. Try to either add the npp or up the Test to 1/1 Test/Primo.

 

[Wiseguy]

Ive been running Primo for decades and dont have that issue.As a matter of fact this is the first time I read about someone having sleeping issues with primo. Are you sure you have legit primo? Its faked pretty often

 

[Mtoesshoes]

Ive been running Primo for decades and dont have that issue.As a matter of fact this is the first time I read about someone having sleeping issues with primo. Are you sure you have legit primo? Its faked pretty often

Yea, tested it with labmax test, and it's one of the sponsors on this site. I've read about it some on reddit forums. I am super sensitive to sleep issues. Taking cannabis oil to help and even that isn't doing the trick.

 

[220]

I am on my third run with Primo. I have never experienced any noticeable negative side effects.

 

[Mtoesshoes]

I appreciate people letting me know they didn't have side effects I guess. I thoroughly researched compounds before starting and the low side effects of primo are the main reason I am taking it. The only side effects I have ever read about are shedding/hair loss and sleep issues but normally people say they have them at over 600 per week, didn't think I would have any issue at 400 but seemed to be a progressive issue since starting to add it. This is my first cycle incase that is helpful information. Was on peptides for years before starting hormones.

 

[Matt88]

I don’t think it would happen in 10days but Primo could lower your E and that will make it hard to sleep. Try to either add the npp or up the Test to 1/1 Test/Primo.

Exactly what I was gonna say!

 

[Wiseguy]

I appreciate people letting me know they didn't have side effects I guess. I thoroughly researched compounds before starting and the low side effects of primo are the main reason I am taking it. The only side effects I have ever read about are shedding/hair loss and sleep issues but normally people say they have them at over 600 per week, didn't think I would have any issue at 400 but seemed to be a progressive issue since starting to add it. This is my first cycle incase that is helpful information. Was on peptides for years before starting hormones.

My friend if you are super sensitive to sleep issues could it be something else? Stress, pre workout, stimulants, coffee? I am curious my self because like I said all my years never heard of Primo causing sleep issues.

 

[Mtoesshoes]

My friend if you are super sensitive to sleep issues could it be something else? Stress, pre workout, stimulants, coffee? I am curious my self because like I said all my years never heard of Primo causing sleep issues.

A simple Google of primobolan side effects will often show insomnia as the #1 side effect on any medical based site. I've been super sensitive to sleep issues all my life and am very aware of anything extra that may cause this. In fact I often sleep a bit too long when adding in cannabis oil+cbn. So with nothing added over what is stated and a focus currently on recovery which means I'm even Journaling before bed to stop rumination which I usually don't do. It's definitely have a negative effect on sleep. What I'm wondering is if with time it will dissipate. I've also seen people increasing dose to get rid of this issue. Hoping it's just not that primo isn't for me since it is supposed to be so easy on you generally.

 

[zwhit]

Any shift in hormones could effect sleep. It will probably get better as the cycle goes on.

Are you taking any pre-workout or caffeine close to bed? I'm a lot more sensitive to caffeine when I'm on cycle. If you normally take a heavy stim pre-workout at say 5pm and go to sleep at 10pm, while you're on cycle it could make you more sensitive to the stimulants, affecting your sleep

 

[Mtoesshoes]

Any shift in hormones could effect sleep. It will probably get better as the cycle goes on.

Are you taking any pre-workout or caffeine close to bed? I'm a lot more sensitive to caffeine when I'm on cycle. If you normally take a heavy stim pre-workout at say 5pm and go to sleep at 10pm, while you're on cycle it could make you more sensitive to the stimulants, affecting your sleep

I dont take any caffeine or stimulants. Used to take Adderall excessively when young and stimulants make me feel funny. Even eat low sugar lol.

 

[Mtoesshoes]

I am just lowering the primo to 2-300 and seeing if that helps, added the NPP cause I need to do my cycle this time of year and have already been doing a bunch of liver support and started HGH a bit ago. May just drop the primo and do NPP and tbol cause I know I handle tbol well and they are supposed to pair well. Will see how my body likes NPP.

 

[Astro95]

I am just lowering the primo to 2-300 and seeing if that helps, added the NPP cause I need to do my cycle this time of year and have already been doing a bunch of liver support and started HGH a bit ago. May just drop the primo and do NPP and tbol cause I know I handle tbol well and they are supposed to pair well. Will see how my body likes NPP.

Test, Primo, NPP, Tbol, growth on 1st cycle? Let’s fuckin goooo!

 

[TopDawg]

1mg Xanax, 3 Benedryl tablets, 2 shots of the Scotch or Whiskey of your choice, and chase it all with a 6 pack of high gravity (high alcohol content) craft beer.

Joking of course. DO NOT FOLLOW THAT ADVICE! That concoction will put you to sleep, but you may not wake up. You will certainly feel like crap if you do wake up.

Oddly someone here will likely say they have done this. I have extreme insomnia. I have tried everything I know to help me sleep. I have even tried some stupid and dangerous things. These days I just get up and go work out, or kick back in the garage and watch TV until my eyes are ready to involuntarily close.

 

[CompoundLifts31]

Just on 400 primo per week 10 days in and at night I'm just not tired and find myself barely sleeping, is this normal? Would a higher doss make this worse as I see most people doing at least 700 primo per week. Was planning on stacking low dose NPP for 6 weeks and oral winny for the middle 4 weeks for a stack then slowly go back to just primo and cut with anavar or tbol at the end. But if I have to remove primo due to no sleep I'd probably just up the NPP. Thoughts?

Your holding water. High estrogen creates water retention. Water retention seriously interferes with sleep. I am going through it myself.

Up your AI.

You'll sleep better the next night.

Sent from my LM-K500 using Tapatalk

 

[Boykinben82]

I appreciate people letting me know they didn't have side effects I guess. I thoroughly researched compounds before starting and the low side effects of primo are the main reason I am taking it. The only side effects I have ever read about are shedding/hair loss and sleep issues but normally people say they have them at over 600 per week, didn't think I would have any issue at 400 but seemed to be a progressive issue since starting to add it. This is my first cycle incase that is helpful information. Was on peptides for years before starting hormones.

This why it important to start with test only. Then add one compound at a time so you can get base blood work and know how you react to each compound. It makes it a lot easier to adjust compounds, I would get blood work and see it anything is out of wack and then you can go from there.

 

[TheOldJJdigs]

Your holding water. High estrogen creates water retention. Water retention seriously interferes with sleep. I am going through it myself.

Up your AI.

You'll sleep better the next night.

Sent from my LM-K500 using Tapatalk

So when my estrogen is super high or I’ve crashed it… my sleep is all over the place. OP I would listen to this advice this gentleman just gave you I believe the issue you’re facing is not the compound itself rather the side effects of either high estro or you’ve crashed your estrogen/your estrogen is too low.

 

[CompoundLifts31]

So when my estrogen is super high or I’ve crashed it… my sleep is all over the place. OP I would listen to this advice this gentleman just gave you I believe the issue you’re facing is not the compound itself rather the side effects of either high estro or you’ve crashed your estrogen/your estrogen is too low.

Trust me... If I forget my AI for 3+ days, I can't sleep. I was useless today during the day. Went to sleep at 3 woke up at 7 and was exhausted, but couldn't sleep. It's the worst feeling.

Sent from my LM-K500 using Tapatalk

 

[CompoundLifts31]

The other not so great thing is Deca is faked as Primo a lot. Deca would be way more likely to do this than primo. Im certainly not stating your Primo is fake. Its just a fact.

Sent from my LM-K500 using Tapatalk

 

[Mtoesshoes]

So to address all these things. Primo was tested with lab max, did blood levels on test e only before adding in primo. It was 100% the primo. Lowered it and added in NPP and sleep way better last night. I am not sure why people are arguing against that but appreciate the responses anyway. It's definitely common, you can even find someone on this forum saying primo was as bad as tren for insomnia. The NPP being added and not making things worse probably means no deca in the mix as the labmax don't tell you if others are in there.

 

[Mtoesshoes]

So I'm clear on what I did. Test e since August. Did 8 days of tbol to see how it effected me. Took a break, then on test e only added in primo alone to see how it was. About 10 days later was experiencing pretty bad insomnia that increased as the primo built up. I had blood levels done right before the primo, estradiol levels were what they should have been at that level of test according to the trt people I was looking into who had me do the test( going to get on TRT after this cycle but wanted to be prepared). After posting and someone recommended the NPP I did .5 ml shots 2 days apart and have been sleeping better, also lowered my primo from 2ml to 1 ml per shot 2x week, last night was the first night sleep improved. It's only been 3 days, but that was aggressive insomnia. I just wasn't tired and found myself being much more NEAT driven during the day

 

[Mtoesshoes]

Original idea was. Figure out where I'm good on test at and stay there for a couple months while researching whatever was the safest way to go to get strength back w using compounds instead of peptides.
What I came up with seemed pretty safe and like it wouldn't add too much bulk as recovery from workouts and strength main goals, I bulk easily but also gain fat easily.

Weeks 1-2 test e 250 primo 400
Week 3-4 test e 250, primo 400, NPP 150
Week 4-8 test e 250, primo 400, NPP, tbol 25mg daily
Week 9 test e 250 primo 600 NPP 150
Week 10-11 test e 250-375(tbd) Primo 600, anavar 10mg and while cutting for last 2 weeks, only adding anavar if my body/mind tolerated well.

Additionally.
~3 weeks prior to cycle I started HGH at 2ui daily. Once I started on Week 2 I increased to 2.5ui daily
1200mg daily TUDCA
Milk thistle, glutathione and a couple others in cycle support supplement.

I have AI however as I understood, primo is non aromatizing and my levels were checked literally within days of starting primo for estro. Was saving it incase needed from NPP as from my understanding that can cause some issues. Perhaps some of my research wasn't correct.


This post was made around the end of week 2 but I didn't want to add NPP with my sleep still being jacked.
Changes I made.
Increase test to 375, add NPP at 150 reduce primo to 200
Last night I slept pretty well and it's late tonight and I'm am feeling tired which wasn't happening before. Hopefully that has done the trick. Sorry I any of that is standoff ish, learning can be frustrating at first

 

[TheOldJJdigs]

So you believe lowering a compound like Primo E and within a day it’s out of your system? That’s not how Primo E works. Now if you were running a Prop or Ace compound I could see your levels dropping that quickly however not with Primo E. You may have slept better “last night” but I’m going to say it didn’t have much to do with your adjustment.

Now above my comment is going off what I outlined. If I misread your comment and my timeline isn’t correct than disregard my post.

My money is still on your estrogen. A lot of guys when trying a new compound will go for the short estered version (NPP over Deca, Mast Prop over Mast E, Tren Ace over Tren E) so they can make fast adjustments if they run into problems.

Also you sound like an intelligent guy so I’m confused as to why you’re running all this gear for a first cycle. First cycles are typically Test only… you’re running the entire kitchen sink on your first go around with AAS and youve added HGH. I see you’ve been on TRT and taking synthetic Testosterone however not at cycle
Amounts. Even in your case adding just one compound on top of your Testosterone is understandable but not multiple compounds and adding HGH. At the same time telling guys who have answered your thread that you know for a fact what’s going on. I don’t see how you could know for a fact when you’ve never run any of these compounds before. Hence the reason people suggest to run test only cycles and over the upcoming year begin to add compounds to your cycles. A better way to do things.

If you said you discontinued Primo E and within a week or two you were sleeping better than I’m sure people could get behind that. However a day or two, on a long estered compound, that’s not doing anything. Yes, long estered compounds gradually drop in concentration levels in the body from their peak concentration point it’s just unlikely the amount was at a low enough amount for you to experience side effects stopping that quickly.

Everything I’m saying to you I’m saying with respect. I hope you know sir I’m not coming at you moreover just trying to help you view this from all angles here while ball-parking some ideas for you. I will add that you may in fact may be experiencing insomnia due to the Primo compound… I’m not sure. Have you thought of taking another blood test and adding a sensitive Estrogen test? You may be a high converter, even your experience with TRT, adding higher amounts of Testosterone could have pushed you over your threshold and your estrogen could in fact be very high. Although adding NPP this would most likely raise your estrogen as well but do so over time and not immediately.

At any rate it sounds like you have some things figured out so best of luck to you.

 

[Mtoesshoes]

So you believe lowering a compound like Primo E and within a day it’s out of your system? That’s not how Primo E works. Now if you were running a Prop or Ace compound I could see your levels dropping that quickly however not with Primo E. You may have slept better “last night” but I’m going to say it didn’t have much to do with your adjustment.

Now above my comment is going off what I outlined. If I misread your comment and my timeline isn’t correct than disregard my post.

My money is still on your estrogen. A lot of guys when trying a new compound will go for the short estered version (NPP over Deca, Mast Prop over Mast E, Tren Ace over Tren E) so they can make fast adjustments if they run into problems.

Also you sound like an intelligent guy so I’m confused as to why you’re running all this gear for a first cycle. First cycles are typically Test only… you’re running the entire kitchen sink on your first go around with AAS and youve added HGH. I see you’ve been on TRT and taking synthetic Testosterone however not at cycle
Amounts. Even in your case adding just one compound on top of your Testosterone is understandable but not multiple compounds and adding HGH. At the same time telling guys who have answered your thread that you know for a fact what’s going on. I don’t see how you could know for a fact when you’ve never run any of these compounds before. Hence the reason people suggest to run test only cycles and over the upcoming year begin to add compounds to your cycles. A better way to do things.

If you said you discontinued Primo E and within a week or two you were sleeping better than I’m sure people could get behind that. However a day or two, on a long estered compound, that’s not doing anything. Yes, long estered compounds gradually drop in concentration levels in the body from their peak concentration point it’s just unlikely the amount was at a low enough amount for you to experience side effects stopping that quickly.

Everything I’m saying to you I’m saying with respect. I hope you know sir I’m not coming at you moreover just trying to help you view this from all angles here while ball-parking some ideas for you. I will add that you may in fact may be experiencing insomnia due to the Primo compound… I’m not sure. Have you thought of taking another blood test and adding a sensitive Estrogen test? You may be a high converter, even your experience with TRT, adding higher amounts of Testosterone could have pushed you over your threshold and your estrogen could in fact be very high. Although adding NPP this would most likely raise your estrogen as well but do so over time and not immediately.

At any rate it sounds like you have some things figured out so best of luck to you.

I believe the NPP and increased test helped me alleviate whatever was happening with the Primo.
I was pushing back pinning again when I posted on here by a few days, so it wasn't one night of no Primo me thinking that made a difference. It was 5 days since last full dose plus the increase in other compounds and now I am starting to see improvement.

So previously I was only getting blood tests through the TRT people, how would I go about getting them on my own, local lab is a quest that is ROUGH. From my understanding I need an order from a doctor or place of employment for testing there?

And to answer why multiple compounds, multiple lower dosed low side effect compounds seemed better than running one just on the higher end. I was thinking of doing Primo only but it didn't seem to be able to do alone what I was looking for and the other compounds I didn't wanna run heavy first time. These all seem to work synergistically, Primo as low side effect base, tbol from the 8 days I tried it makes me incredibly strong but wears on my joints a little, so adding low NPP to help increase size a little and help with joints from tbol.
Also, and this is no excuse, but the culture around here is use tren, probably 2 dif esters, plus maybe deca and incredibly high test(up to 700) and don't take breaks at all. All gas no breaks. So this in comparison to what I see seemed very safe lol.

 

[Mtoesshoes]

And the hgh because my healing is shit. I've had a bunch of stem cell procedures since my accident cause my body does not heal as well these days so to make if I was running all these compounds I was getting the most out of them I could. I do use some BPC 157/tb500 mix which hopefully helps as well.

 

[TheOldJJdigs]

I believe the NPP and increased test helped me alleviate whatever was happening with the Primo.
I was pushing back pinning again when I posted on here by a few days, so it wasn't one night of no Primo me thinking that made a difference. It was 5 days since last full dose plus the increase in other compounds and now I am starting to see improvement.

So previously I was only getting blood tests through the TRT people, how would I go about getting them on my own, local lab is a quest that is ROUGH. From my understanding I need an order from a doctor or place of employment for testing there?

And to answer why multiple compounds, multiple lower dosed low side effect compounds seemed better than running one just on the higher end. I was thinking of doing Primo only but it didn't seem to be able to do alone what I was looking for and the other compounds I didn't wanna run heavy first time. These all seem to work synergistically, Primo as low side effect base, tbol from the 8 days I tried it makes me incredibly strong but wears on my joints a little, so adding low NPP to help increase size a little and help with joints from tbol.
Also, and this is no excuse, but the culture around here is use tren, probably 2 dif esters, plus maybe deca and incredibly high test(up to 700) and don't take breaks at all. All gas no breaks. So this in comparison to what I see seemed very safe lol.

Cool man. Well I don’t agree with your comment that the culture here is multiple compounds and high dosages. I know a ton of very solid individuals on ASF that take the time to advocate for less is more and simple cycles. Many many men on here advocate for test only cycles and I believe the majority of people on ASF generally care about each other and the health of the person they’re giving advice to. To the extent I’ve seen VETS and other members stop other members when they are suggesting something dangerous or suggest a bro-science attitude towards a specific subject.

As far as testing goes there are a couple places you can order an online test. I can pm them
To you when I get a full list of places.

What you described in your last post makes more sense as I was thinking you were saying you lowered the dose of Primo and the next day you were sleeping better. So perhaps you’re right in that you may be experiencing insomnia due to the compound itself rather than estrogen related side effects. In which case may I suggest (if you are really wanting to run this compound) to do exactly what you have already done and lower the dosage. Then slowly make adjustments and raise the dosage gradually. Perhaps this helps your body adjust better? There is always the chance you may not be able to run this compound and I believe I heard you mention that you understand this compound may not be for you.

Personally I have run Primo and Tren so many times and I haven’t run into any insomnia issues. I feel lucky in that regard but I do understand your frustration in not sleeping.

I think you’re a very intelligent guy and i know I don’t speak for every member but ASF could use more guys like yourself. I hope you stick around and contribute to the board.

I’ll send over the testing websites when I find them all.

JJ