61 yrs old male - On Reta 8mg + Test E 120mg/wk Subq - which addition gives best body recomp? Primo only, HGH only, or Primo+Var?

[2bull]

I lost 80 lbs on Tirzepitide. I ate 1200 calories a day for a year (800 calories was protein) and lifted 6 days a week, cardio zone 2 4 to 5 days a week.. Once I was down to 10-11% I switched to Reta. Tirz is better when you are obese, Reta is great for "cutting". Primo and or Var aren't going to help much when you are at 27%. I lost 80 lbs fat (visceral under 1 lb now) and gained 30 lbs lean tissue over 18 months @61. I credit Tirzepitide.

Primo, var, mastron, winstrol for ppl under 12% body fat. Incredible story! Well done.

 

[Knarfster]

Primo, var, mastron, winstrol for ppl under 12% body fat. Incredible story! Well done.

Yeah, I learned for me the hard way don't run Primo and Mast E at the same time. Crashed my E2 to 13.5. Even at 500-550mg week test my E2 never gets high. Hell my hematocrit rarely gets over 46.

 

[elit3keraed]

I appreciate your view and be,ie e me the whole reason I have started this health kick is to control the CKD.

Having said that within 6 months, I have dropped my BP from 220/135 to 130/75, my weight from 120kg to 102kg by exercising most days, dropping alcohol completely, no chocolate, no sugar, no crisps, no sweets. So I am quite aware that this is a long journey but I am well on my way.

Now my eGFR has also improved to 60 which is on the limit back to lower normal so not really overly concerned as it is now.

Of course I need to monitor it which I am doing by regular self funded blood tests.

My AAS knowledge is rudimentary hence I have asked amateurish questions in order to elicite user experiences by people who have been there and done it.

Thanks

You absolutely should be concerned about your egfr being 60. Even if you did manage to improve it, the fact that it got worse means you need to consistently check it. Maybe if you were in the 100s sure. Or even 90 maybe not worry. But adding anavar or primo when you literally are in the cusp of being “out of range” is absurd my man.


Get a consistent lifting routing, add 2 IUs of HGH if you REALLY are set on adding more compounds, and watch your salt intake (cuz GH can increase water retention and sodium makes it worse…which is the last thing you want with your current kidney function level.


Being “in range” doesn’t really mean anything when you’re at the very lower end of range.


Good job on the weightloss but take it from someone who ran plenty of stuff at 25+%…it’s pointless and is only going to make things harder in terms of the damage it will do. Your body has to work harder already with the level of bodyfat you have. Don’t mess more with lipids and BP especially when you’re walking a fine line with the kidneys

 

[Knarfster]

You absolutely should be concerned about your egfr being 60. Even if you did manage to improve it, the fact that it got worse means you need to consistently check it. Maybe if you were in the 100s sure. Or even 90 maybe not worry. But adding anavar or primo when you literally are in the cusp of being “out of range” is absurd my man.


Get a consistent lifting routing, add 2 IUs of HGH if you REALLY are set on adding more compounds, and watch your salt intake (cuz GH can increase water retention and sodium makes it worse…which is the last thing you want with your current kidney function level.


Being “in range” doesn’t really mean anything when you’re at the very lower end of range.


Good job on the weightloss but take it from someone who ran plenty of stuff at 25+%…it’s pointless and is only going to make things harder in terms of the damage it will do. Your body has to work harder already with the level of bodyfat you have. Don’t mess more with lipids and BP especially when you’re walking a fine line with the kidneys

Sodium itself does NOT increase water retention. Lack of consistently getting sodium, i.e. allowing it to swing is what causes water retention. Eating high sodium junk food one day and then not getting enough the next is the issue.

 

[elit3keraed]

Sodium itself does NOT increase water retention. Lack of consistently getting sodium, i.e. allowing it to swing is what causes water retention. Eating high sodium junk food one day and then not getting enough the next is the issue.

Well, considering GH increases sodium reabsorption and my sodium stays at a consistent 3500 mg a day with about 5500 mg of potassium a day, but adding GH I needed to decrease my sodium to about 2300 in order to control the bloat, I would say that in reference to using HGH and sodium you should probably not keep it higher than needed.

But then again, he also has kidney problems. I think he said he’s stage three kidney disease, is EGFR is slightly higher than my mother’s. So sodium is not something that you want to get an excessive when you have kidney disease.


Now I absolutely 100% agree that if your sodium high consistently then yes your body is not going to bloat like it would if you try to avoid sodium all day and then happen to get extra sodium one day. But sodium absorption is a known mechanism of action with HGH so you’re going to tend to hold more sodium than typical.

 

[Knarfster]

Well, considering GH increases sodium reabsorption and my sodium stays at a consistent 3500 mg a day with about 5500 mg of potassium a day, but adding GH I needed to decrease my sodium to about 2300 in order to control the bloat, I would say that in reference to using HGH and sodium you should probably not keep it higher than needed.

But then again, he also has kidney problems. I think he said he’s stage three kidney disease, is EGFR is slightly higher than my mother’s. So sodium is not something that you want to get an excessive when you have kidney disease.


Now I absolutely 100% agree that if your sodium high consistently then yes your body is not going to bloat like it would if you try to avoid sodium all day and then happen to get extra sodium one day. But sodium absorption is a known mechanism of action with HGH so you’re going to tend to hold more sodium than typical.

egfr of 60 isn't terrible, especially if he is taking creatine. Any PED is going to lower it more. He needs to do a Cystatin C test to get more accurate numbers and a better picture.

 

[MaxAlt]

Thank you all. Here is my update in case you are interested:

My weight loss progress has stalled competely despite switching to Reta 8mg/week over 2 subQ injections. I am stuck at 228lbs and 27% BF.
Appetite surpression has stopped as well so I am peckish all the time which makes clorie control doubly hard.

This despite me walking incline on the treadmill for 30 minutes per day. So I will now add lifting 3-4 times/week to the regime.

I understand there is no point in adding any other AAS to thje mix right now so Anavar or Primo are off the table.

Additionally i have booked a Cystatin C Levels test for tomorrow so i can get a clearer picture on my Kidney health.

I also have been researching doing a water fast for 3/5/7 days in the next few weeks as that seems to have a great impact on BF / waist size. This might be preferable to shooting HGH every day.

Any real life experiences on these thoughts is welcome.

 

[MaxAlt]

Cleaned up / edited version:

Thank you all. Here is my update in case you are interested:

My weight loss progress has stalled completely despite titrating Reta to 8mg/week over 2 subQ injections. I am stuck at 228lbs and 27% BF.
Appetite suppression has stopped as well so I am peckish all the time which makes calorie control doubly hard.

This despite me walking incline on the treadmill for 30 minutes per day. So I will now add lifting 3-4 times/week to the regime.

So might make a switch to Tirz now or a combination of Tirz&Reta but need to research more first.

I understand there is no point in adding any other AAS to the mix right now so Anavar or Primo are off the table.

Additionally i have booked a Cystatin C Levels test for tomorrow so i can get a clearer picture on my Kidney health.

Also am watching my sodium intake like a hawk so have minimised it massively compared to a year ago.

I also have been researching doing a water fast for 3/5/7 days in the next few weeks as that seems to have a great impact on BF / waist size. This might be preferable to shooting HGH every day.

Any real life experiences on these thoughts are welcome.

 

[elit3keraed]

i feel like there’s too much impatience here…

But you said you were on 6mg last week and now you’re stalled on 8mg this week? So it’s been a week and you haven’t seen any loss on a higher dose so now you’re trying to pull a bunch of different levers…

It takes a few weeks for the next dosage to build up in your system. If you just went up 2mg to 8 then give it some time.

Instead of water fasting try small frequent meals.


What are your macros at? What are your food sources.

If you’re still getting hunger on 8mg of Reta after your first increase I’d be curious to know if you recently opened a new vial or Reta or if you’re still using the same one that was giving you results originally. Cuz even from the same supplier, you could potentially have a underdosed vial.


So what are your macros? Cuz quite frankly you’re also not going to get continuous high end results just walking everyday. And instead of doing short term stuff like a water fast that will most likely also tank your energy on Reta…let’s look at the SMALL tweaks that can be made instead of hitting the panic button for a short term fix that will most likely make your snacking worse..cuz if you can’t refrain from snacking you’re definitely not going to have the willpower to only drink water for multiple days

 

[MaxAlt]

Well, I am data driven not by feelings with all due respect. And when seeing a plan is getting derailed, I am rather taking initiative instead of waiting.

And the data is currently not encouraging. Appetite suppression has gone, weight loss has stalled which are the facts.

Using the same vial - Moved this week to 4mg twice a week and food noise is much greater than say a month ago.

Macros: TDEE 2302 cals; consuming 1600-1800 cals / day, Protein around 60-120g p day, Carbs & Fat equal measures for the rest.

So my options are:

• Move to Tirz instead of Reta
• Do a water fast
• Have a combination of Reta & Tirz

I am looking for real life experiences of people who have done either to share their journey.

 

[Knarfster]

Options for re-kick starting the weight loss are to go to tirzepitide, I titrated up to 10 mg. Or keep the Reta, which is known not to suppress the appetite as much and add the peptide Cagrilintide for just the suppression. Careful though, too much and you WON'T eat.

 

[BFulforth]

Well, I am data driven not by feelings with all due respect. And when seeing a plan is getting derailed, I am rather taking initiative instead of waiting.

And the data is currently not encouraging. Appetite suppression has gone, weight loss has stalled which are the facts.

Using the same vial - Moved this week to 4mg twice a week and food noise is much greater than say a month ago.

Macros: TDEE 2302 cals; consuming 1600-1800 cals / day, Protein around 60-120g p day, Carbs & Fat equal measures for the rest.

So my options are:

• Move to Tirz instead of Reta
• Do a water fast
• Have a combination of Reta & Tirz

I am looking for real life experiences of people who have done either to share their journey.

Looking at the macros you listed, the first question that comes to my mind is why is protein intake so low? And if I’m reading this correctly, your fats and carbs are equal?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Musclemuscle]

Get on the stairmaster at whatever level allows you to do 30mins 5 times a week..

 

[elit3keraed]

Well, I am data driven not by feelings with all due respect. And when seeing a plan is getting derailed, I am rather taking initiative instead of waiting.

And the data is currently not encouraging. Appetite suppression has gone, weight loss has stalled which are the facts.

Using the same vial - Moved this week to 4mg twice a week and food noise is much greater than say a month ago.

Macros: TDEE 2302 cals; consuming 1600-1800 cals / day, Protein around 60-120g p day, Carbs & Fat equal measures for the rest.

So my options are:

• Move to Tirz instead of Reta
• Do a water fast
• Have a combination of Reta & Tirz

I am looking for real life experiences of people who have done either to share their journey.

Someone to react to data and not with emotion, nothing you said indicates the former. You have extrapolated it’s not working off ONE week of a new dose…again….the data shows it takes time for the dosage to actually make impacts…at the minimum, more than 7 days…

You haven’t even started strength training yet and you’re talking about adding drugs or starving yourself.

Your macros are terrible…you’re 220lbs and you’re eating 120g of protein? And youre getting less than 10 calories per lb of bodyweight? Even I get hunger eating less than 1700 calories (I’m 180 currently) you need to up your protein by about 50% and increase your overall calories. Not by thousands but by at least 2-300.

I’m currently ON Reta…and HGH …AND TRT…I’ve been on Reta for months and just titrated up to 3mg…I’m also 40lbs lighter than you and had to increase my calories to get it moving along again. I also eat 1.5 g per pound of body weight in protein at a minimum and guess who doesn’t have hunger? But guess what happens when I’m not eating enough protein for the day? I get hungry.

Same thing happened to buddy. Mine also gets great appetite suppression from Reta… but finds it he winds up snack if he doesn’t eat protein all day.


So again, start doing resistance training, increase your protein, and be patient. If you use data instead of emotion, then you should know that switching compounds and starving yourself is the most extreme response to not seeing additional fat loss in a diet that does not support positive weight loss to begin with.


You’ve most likely burned away a ton of lean mass which also fucks with metabolism further making fat loss hard. No resistance training + calorie deficit + lack of protein = muscle mass loss…

Data would indicate increasing protein, adding in resistance training and waiting 6 to 8 weeks before reassessing. Emotion would indicate because you haven’t seen results with the suboptimal diet, no resistance training and a week of waiting that you should starve yourself and add extra drugs .

 

[elit3keraed]

Well, I am data driven not by feelings with all due respect. And when seeing a plan is getting derailed, I am rather taking initiative instead of waiting.

And the data is currently not encouraging. Appetite suppression has gone, weight loss has stalled which are the facts.

Using the same vial - Moved this week to 4mg twice a week and food noise is much greater than say a month ago.

Macros: TDEE 2302 cals; consuming 1600-1800 cals / day, Protein around 60-120g p day, Carbs & Fat equal measures for the rest.

So my options are:

• Move to Tirz instead of Reta
• Do a water fast
• Have a combination of Reta & Tirz

I am looking for real life experiences of people who have done either to share their journey.

Oh, I’m just to satisfy your whole “people with real life experience” I’ve also done water fasts…if they were as effective as people try to make you believe we’d all be shredded…

I’ve also done DNP, clen high and low dose GH, apple cider vinegar, IF, carb back loading, keto, carnivore, and a bunch of other stuff to try to “boost metabolism”.

Get your diet right, add the resistance training and be patient…

 

[Devilpup]

My doctor doesn’t want me on Reta or Test E, she is not going to talk to me about HGH or Var or any other AAS.

You need a new Dr.

 

[celrin321]

You need a new Dr.

Bro his post said he has kidney disease there is not a single doctor in America who would let him go on AAS or Var or hgh. Not saying its correct but if his doctor knows enough about CKD it's worth listening to that and then other opinions