Possible boner issues...

[davecave!]

Sooooo.. let me get this straight.

- You have been on Test for about 2 weeks, and then the DBol for less than a week?
- When you first started, your libido was sky high, and now that you added in an AI.. you don't notice it that much?

Is this correct?

If so, I'd say there is no real problem here, and that what you are experiencing is placebo, and it's all in your head. You've been on gear for 2 weeks, I think it is WAY to early for you to physically be feeling ups and downs like that. Just my opinion though.

Just curious though, because I didn't see it posted in here... what does your cycle plan look like? 450mg TPP for 8 weeks.. 12? How long are you running the DBol.. ect.

I didn't post it. I started my cycle last Wednesday, the 6th. I started mid week because I'm an impatient fuck. This past Tuesday I started feeling the gear, whether it was the test or the dbol, don't know. Then I started taking the aromasin that night, two days later I got boner issues. I'm stopping dbol today if I can resist the temptation to take it tomorrow lol. I do have tbol that I want to try but I'm have to give my body a break from the dbol before I do that. Any info on that kind of switch? Dbol to tbol within same cycle?

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[STTM]

Yeah, I would say there is no real issue here yet, and everything you are experiencing is just in your head. That's not a bad thing though.. minutes after I pin Test, I feel like I am king of the world. Just the way our minds do things I guess.. and it can trick us into thinking things are happening, when they are not.

I'd just say, make sure you have your cycle squared away next time before you start. You can run DBol and TBol in the same cycle, but I wouldn't really run them together. Toxicity wouldn't really be the issue, I just don't see the reasoning for it. You could run the DBol for the first 4-5 weeks, take a couple week break, and then finish your cycle off with the TBol.. or just save it for your next cycle.

 

[JohnRambo]

Yeah, I would say there is no real issue here yet, and everything you are experiencing is just in your head. That's not a bad thing though.. minutes after I pin Test, I feel like I am king of the world. Just the way our minds do things I guess.. and it can trick us into thinking things are happening, when they are not.

I'd just say, make sure you have your cycle squared away next time before you start. You can run DBol and TBol in the same cycle, but I wouldn't really run them together. Toxicity wouldn't really be the issue, I just don't see the reasoning for it. You could run the DBol for the first 4-5 weeks, take a couple week break, and then finish your cycle off with the TBol.. or just save it for your next cycle.

Start on the 6th it's the 16th so that's 10 days (actually less to Ed symptoms) and you started taking a short acting ai.
I agree. Either you are mentally blocking yourself, deca dick, or you have Completely trashed your estrogen levels from taking your AI in the first week practically ensuring you would lower E quick without having much aromatization yet... Unless you were cruising you may have prematurely crashed E levels or its the oral... I personally don't touch dbol because of that but it could be dbol related too as those are the only short acting components to your cycle.

I always rely on bloodwork but this early in is a crapshoot at best until the hormone stabilizes as well. Even with TIPP it took more than 10 days to get level bloodwork for me.

 

[s2h]

How would dbol drive exogenous test levels down? I'm just asking, because if you know something I don't then I want to know lol

dbol supresses testosterone and converts to e2 at a fairly high rate...tipp at the dose used is not enough to off set the effects of the dbol dose used....you have to have balance in a cycle....tipp and dbol is not a combo i would ever suggest...you have a low aromatizing injectable at a low dose with a high aromatizing oral in dbol at a higher then normal dose....this leaves you with high e2 and sub par test levels...bad situation...even with a AI your still going to have a low amount of unbound testosterone..

suggestion
dbol 20mg ed
500-600mg test E or C
aromasin or adex

 

[davecave!]

Yeah, I would say there is no real issue here yet, and everything you are experiencing is just in your head. That's not a bad thing though.. minutes after I pin Test, I feel like I am king of the world. Just the way our minds do things I guess.. and it can trick us into thinking things are happening, when they are not.

I'd just say, make sure you have your cycle squared away next time before you start. You can run DBol and TBol in the same cycle, but I wouldn't really run them together. Toxicity wouldn't really be the issue, I just don't see the reasoning for it. You could run the DBol for the first 4-5 weeks, take a couple week break, and then finish your cycle off with the TBol.. or just save it for your next cycle.

Yeah I know, it probably is all in my head. What jacked me up is that I'm having to train for a relay marathon I'm running in mid May and dbol is not letting me do that. I was impatient and made the decision to run the dbol anyway to see how it affected my running despite already reading about lower back pumps (my symptoms). Next time I will plan My cycle out a lot better. Thanks for your advice, I really really appreciate it!

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[davecave!]

Start on the 6th it's the 16th so that's 10 days (actually less to Ed symptoms) and you started taking a short acting ai.
I agree. Either you are mentally blocking yourself, deca dick, or you have Completely trashed your estrogen levels from taking your AI in the first week practically ensuring you would lower E quick without having much aromatization yet... Unless you were cruising you may have prematurely crashed E levels or its the oral... I personally don't touch dbol because of that but it could be dbol related too as those are the only short acting components to your cycle.

I always rely on bloodwork but this early in is a crapshoot at best until the hormone stabilizes as well. Even with TIPP it took more than 10 days to get level bloodwork for me.

Thank you for your advice

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[socalmk6gti]

Yeah I know, it probably is all in my head. What jacked me up is that I'm having to train for a relay marathon I'm running in mid May and dbol is not letting me do that. I was impatient and made the decision to run the dbol anyway to see how it affected my running despite already reading about lower back pumps (my symptoms). Next time I will plan My cycle out a lot better. Thanks for your advice, I really really appreciate it!

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Can you alter your dbol dosage timing around your marathon training? Run in the morning and take the dbol after? Or something. It should alleviate the back pump issue so you can train

 

[davecave!]

Can you alter your dbol dosage timing around your marathon training? Run in the morning and take the dbol after? Or something. It should alleviate the back pump issue so you can train

I could and I have debated this option. But I'm thinking that I'm gonna drop it and completely change up my training for this month, more HIIT, running, sprinting, compound movement lifts and supersets. Each session will aim at raising my heart rate. I'll continue the test of course but once the marathon is done I'm coming back with tbol. Although I was only on dbol for a week I honestly fell in love with it. The pumps, the strength and recovery, and it kinda had a feel good factor with me, but I retained a lot of water and then the boner issues... Who knows, maybe next cycle.

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[STTM]

Orals are not ideal for endurance athletes, cross fitters, ect.. think there is a reason you don't see Phil Heath doing sprints for his cardio? Lol, he is walking at 2.5mph up a 5% incline. If you think the pumps from DBol, are bad.. wait until you try TBol.. I get crippling back pumps from that just from standing in place. If you want to run something along side the Test, then try some LGD-4033. I just got done running that at 20mg/day, and in terms of gains, I would compare that very closely to DBol, but without the bloat and overall alpha feeling. I made a little thread about it earlier.

Are you taking any Taurine or Potassium?

 

[socalmk6gti]

Off topic of this thread OP but what's your diet like? You're training for a marathon and started this cycle. You just said you'll plan your next cycle out better, but why did you rush this one? Do you have a diet laid out for all the extra activity? Liver supps? Taurine and potassium for potential cramping? And your 1-gallon of water as a goal is a joke for an endurance athlete. My wife drinks more than that just as a bodybuilder. My point is, there are a lot of knowledgable people on here trying to help you. Maybe give us the entire picture so we/they can better assist you. I'm a trainer and the last thing I want is to see someone injured or dehydrated causing more harm than good when they have a goal like a marathon.


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[davecave!]

Off topic of this thread OP but what's your diet like? You're training for a marathon and started this cycle. You just said you'll plan your next cycle out better, but why did you rush this one? Do you have a diet laid out for all the extra activity? Liver supps? Taurine and potassium for potential cramping? And your 1-gallon of water as a goal is a joke for an endurance athlete. My wife drinks more than that just as a bodybuilder. My point is, there are a lot of knowledgable people on here trying to help you. Maybe give us the entire picture so we/they can better assist you. I'm a trainer and the last thing I want is to see someone injured or dehydrated causing more harm than good when they have a goal like a marathon.


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Hi, I know that it's probably confusing/irritating to read this thread trying to figure out WTF this op is trying to do. Let me lay it out like this: this is my first cycle and I was anxious and excited to start it, who wasn't with their first cycle. I saw the obstacles in front of me that might hinder the cycle(relay marathon) but I just convinced myself I could figure my way through it, rookie mistake. This relay marathon is a team run, is a full marathon distance split up by six legs, all different distances but at least 3.5 miles each. I've ran this relay about five times already (google beach 2 bay). Endurance athletes run this relay but so do average Joe's and kids and moms and old people, etc... it's a community event that some people like to take serious and some do for fun, I just try to do my best. Look up my other posts, I have my liver supps, tudca. Right now I'm doing a low carb diet to lean out, my carbs are either sweet potatoes, carrots, or brown or wild rice. Lean proteins and as many veggies as I want. I also have taurine on the way but since I'm halting dbol, it may not be as necessary. I'm impatient but I'm also careful and cautious. I don't have a one gallon water goal, I said I drink as much as I can but it's probably no more than a gallon. I appreciate your concern and I hope I cleared things up...

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[TrainInsane89]

I used to take arimidex eod. Now I take it once a week maybe..

Over the years, what gets me better gains is no AI. If I'm not feeling bloated, holding to much water. Nips sore. Then I do not take it. I've been blood tested on a AI and off.

How much test are you on? You only listed TPP and dbol.

Most guys learn this after a while, no ai will result in better gains. I sort of learned it myself, but luckily have a few 30+ year vets who are mentors to me and other top level compeditors and none of them use ais. Estrogen is anabolic in multiple pathways. Ive ran cycles with no ai, and cycle keeping my e2 " in range" like the majoity of people do and the gains with no ai far exceed those of when i used an ai. I run proviron most of the time, that keeps my e2 dwon a little, its not a true ai but it helps and it has all its other great added benfits. If im running really high test i might throw in .25mgs twice a week or something.

But to the OP, ive had alot of people come to me with the same problems when they started using aromasin, i had them drop it and switch to either proviron or adex and everything goes back to normal. Some peoples bodes just dont agree with aromasin. I used to use it myself, first ai i ever used and i hated how it made me feel. Ive used provi 90% of the time size and if needed some adex.

 

[BlackRain]

Most guys learn this after a while, no ai will result in better gains. I sort of learned it myself, but luckily have a few 30+ year vets who are mentors to me and other top level compeditors and none of them use ais. Estrogen is anabolic in multiple pathways. Ive ran cycles with no ai, and cycle keeping my e2 " in range" like the majoity of people do and the gains with no ai far exceed those of when i used an ai. I run proviron most of the time, that keeps my e2 dwon a little, its not a true ai but it helps and it has all its other great added benfits. If im running really high test i might throw in .25mgs twice a week or something.

But to the OP, ive had alot of people come to me with the same problems when they started using aromasin, i had them drop it and switch to either proviron or adex and everything goes back to normal. Some peoples bodes just dont agree with aromasin. I used to use it myself, first ai i ever used and i hated how it made me feel. Ive used provi 90% of the time size and if needed some adex.

Very nice write up.

 

[davecave!]

Most guys learn this after a while, no ai will result in better gains. I sort of learned it myself, but luckily have a few 30+ year vets who are mentors to me and other top level compeditors and none of them use ais. Estrogen is anabolic in multiple pathways. Ive ran cycles with no ai, and cycle keeping my e2 " in range" like the majoity of people do and the gains with no ai far exceed those of when i used an ai. I run proviron most of the time, that keeps my e2 dwon a little, its not a true ai but it helps and it has all its other great added benfits. If im running really high test i might throw in .25mgs twice a week or something.

But to the OP, ive had alot of people come to me with the same problems when they started using aromasin, i had them drop it and switch to either proviron or adex and everything goes back to normal. Some peoples bodes just dont agree with aromasin. I used to use it myself, first ai i ever used and i hated how it made me feel. Ive used provi 90% of the time size and if needed some adex.

Interesting. So you find proviron to be a better substitute for aromasin? I've read that proviron is a slightly older compound and since then has been replaced by nolvadex. I'd like to know your opinion on this, also what do you think about using hcg on cycle? I really really REALLY care about my libido and would like to enjoy an increase in it on cycle... Duh.

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[PhDofGainz]

I definitely feel like shit on aromasin, but adex is money on my cycles