Dosing for NPP vs Deca

[McPriimate]

TLDR: Does the same weekly dose of NPP MWF vs deca E3.5D give lower peaks with the shorter half life, and does that mean for my body to "see" the same effective dose (and get the same bone/joint benefits), I'd need a higher weekly dose of NPP MWF than the one my doc prescribed for deca?

Details:

Question for y'all. Doc prescribed deca at half my trt dose (70mgs deca to 140mg/wk test cyp prescribed, although I'm currently closer to 180mg/wk test to see where my E2 lands, as I feel a lot better here than 140) for a mashed (broken) shoulder which includes some soft tissue damage. I have deca (prescribed) and NPP. First time with a 19-nor, so I'm thinking of going with NPP in case sides are an issue. Doc said just pin deca weekly, so I'm not exactly trusting of his knowledge with any of this, tbh. So, I'm asking the real pros!

Here's the question (geek alert): I recreated the steroid plotter curves on excel and when I'm looking at peak/trough levels for NPP three times a week for a total of 75mg/wk and deca twice a week for 75mg/wk, the deca peaks/troughs end up significantly higher (assuming it's just cuz the NPP's effective half life is so much less). So, if I'm trying to get my body to "see" the same dose of nandrolone per week, do I actually need to use a higher weekly total for NPP dosed MWF than for deca E3.5D?

What got me started thinking about it was trying to plot NPP as kind of a loading dose to get it into my system (and, importantly, being able to pull the plug quicker for sides if needed) and then simultaneously tapering NPP down and deca up (easier to administer) for similar peak/trough values, but the math didn't math for my non-math head. Was going to come up with a taper schedule but then the peak/troughs were quite different for NPP vs deca at the same weekly dose, so it wasn't as straightforward as I'd hoped.

And if I'm just being an annoying noob (guilty) and this is all fucking stupid and I should just pick the dose, start with NPP and if it's good to go switch to deca later... well that would be good to know too! I've read so dang many threads on deca and the sides that I'm appropriately freaked out (already have caber and P5P on hand and I'm likely 4 weeks from even starting this lol)

Thanks all
McP

 

[Astro95]

I plotted the same thing. NPP daily for 2 weeks reaching peak concentration in that time frame, with twice the mg of Deca simultaneously, then pulled the NPP and continued the Deca with only a 5 day minimal blood concentration regression, then it continued up, minimal curve and essentially flat lined within a week reaching peak and completely stable within a month instead of like 3 months it would take if using Deca alone.

 

[Meetketchup]

Bottom line. At same injection frequency deca will provide less peaks and troughs. NPP also has about 5% more nandrolone unit.

Want stability, use deca and inject frequently.

 

[Vision]

Ah, what a fantastic question.. Let me be honest, you may be overthinking things a tad, but hey, that's how we unravel the mysteries of the universe of AAS.

When it comes to hormones, it's fascinating how different responses can occur even with the same drug. The concept of half-life adds another layer to the puzzle - one hormone may come in guns blazing, while another lingers around like a party guest who just won't leave.

People tend to get caught up in analyzing peaks and valleys on charts, but here's the kicker - even as a drug is on its way down, it's still up to some mischief in your system. Metabolites are like those lingering guests, still chatting away with your cells long after the main drug has left the building.

So, the key is to keep your blood levels stable without going peak-crazy. Peaks and valleys are fine, but let's aim to bridge that gap, shall we? Some PEDs with longer half-lives can be a bit pesky, hanging around and causing unexpected interactions in your cellular neighborhood.
So this can be no bueno, with cellular chit chat, bumping in the characters, or possibly activating and deactivating certain cellular groups and enzymes.

In my humble opinion, NPP is the way to go with Nandrolone. Simply due to the fact that the majority of the drug that is cleaved is actually used, more active hormone, about 72% ish if I recall..
And while you don't have to administer it every other day, it's the ideal scenario. A Monday, Wednesday, Friday routine is spot-on, with just the right amount of weekend breather in between.

Furthermore, with a longer heavier ester, This will have a tendency to build, and build and build over time, where your blood medium can actually possess and have a whopping amount of that hormone 6-7 weeks in. This also could be no bueno for some people.

 

[Meetketchup]

Ah, what a fantastic question.. Let me be honest, you may be overthinking things a tad, but hey, that's how we unravel the mysteries of the universe of AAS.

When it comes to hormones, it's fascinating how different responses can occur even with the same drug. The concept of half-life adds another layer to the puzzle - one hormone may come in guns blazing, while another lingers around like a party guest who just won't leave.

People tend to get caught up in analyzing peaks and valleys on charts, but here's the kicker - even as a drug is on its way down, it's still up to some mischief in your system. Metabolites are like those lingering guests, still chatting away with your cells long after the main drug has left the building.

So, the key is to keep your blood levels stable without going peak-crazy. Peaks and valleys are fine, but let's aim to bridge that gap, shall we? Some PEDs with longer half-lives can be a bit pesky, hanging around and causing unexpected interactions in your cellular neighborhood.
So this can be no bueno, with cellular chit chat, bumping in the characters, or possibly activating and deactivating certain cellular groups and enzymes.

In my humble opinion, NPP is the way to go with Nandrolone. Simply due to the fact that the majority of the drug that is cleaved is actually used, more active hormone, about 72% ish if I recall..
And while you don't have to administer it every other day, it's the ideal scenario. A Monday, Wednesday, Friday routine is spot-on, with just the right amount of weekend breather in between.

Furthermore, with a longer heavier ester, This will have a tendency to build, and build and build over time, where your blood medium can actually possess and have a whopping amount of that hormone 6-7 weeks in. This also could be no bueno for some people.

NPP has a 67.5% active hormone
Deca has a 64% active hormone.

If you are running a long cycle then Deca is the way to go IMO, if it's on the shorter side, then NPP. All due to half-life. If you do decide to do NPP inject ED or EOD.

 

[McPriimate]

I plotted the same thing. NPP daily for 2 weeks reaching peak concentration in that time frame, with twice the mg of Deca simultaneously, then pulled the NPP and continued the Deca with only a 5 day minimal blood concentration regression, then it continued up, minimal curve and essentially flat lined within a week reaching peak and completely stable within a month instead of like 3 months it would take if using Deca alone.

So I'm not the only one lol.

And could I ask for a couple example numbers? So, if say you're targeting a dose of 100mg/week of deca, you'd start with daily NPP of how much (and then twice the 100mg/wk target of deca or twice the weekly dose of NPP)? I could try to build different models to figure it out, but figure it would be quicker to just ask!

I'm basically trying to get to a similar AUC for what the deca dose would stabilize at by using the NPP at the start, then doing the switcheroo part way through. So what you did would help with that middle part when I would switch over (provided I tolerated the NPP well)...

Thanks!
McP

 

[McPriimate]

Ah, what a fantastic question.. Let me be honest, you may be overthinking things a tad, but hey, that's how we unravel the mysteries of the universe of AAS.

When it comes to hormones, it's fascinating how different responses can occur even with the same drug. The concept of half-life adds another layer to the puzzle - one hormone may come in guns blazing, while another lingers around like a party guest who just won't leave.

People tend to get caught up in analyzing peaks and valleys on charts, but here's the kicker - even as a drug is on its way down, it's still up to some mischief in your system. Metabolites are like those lingering guests, still chatting away with your cells long after the main drug has left the building.

So, the key is to keep your blood levels stable without going peak-crazy. Peaks and valleys are fine, but let's aim to bridge that gap, shall we? Some PEDs with longer half-lives can be a bit pesky, hanging around and causing unexpected interactions in your cellular neighborhood.
So this can be no bueno, with cellular chit chat, bumping in the characters, or possibly activating and deactivating certain cellular groups and enzymes.

In my humble opinion, NPP is the way to go with Nandrolone. Simply due to the fact that the majority of the drug that is cleaved is actually used, more active hormone, about 72% ish if I recall..
And while you don't have to administer it every other day, it's the ideal scenario. A Monday, Wednesday, Friday routine is spot-on, with just the right amount of weekend breather in between.

Furthermore, with a longer heavier ester, This will have a tendency to build, and build and build over time, where your blood medium can actually possess and have a whopping amount of that hormone 6-7 weeks in. This also could be no bueno for some people.

Overthinking usually isn't my thing (or so I'm told) lol. But I get it that I'm right on the edge of that here!

I've just read so many reports of sides with deca that I'm trying to find a way to test it with the ability to pull the plug if it's, as you say, no bueno. I don't want my junk to be junk or my mood to be down for any longer than is needed to try to get the nandrolone benefits.

You're prolly right that NPP is the way to go, at least for me and a first run, for that very reason. In that case, what I'd be trying to figure out is dosing equivalents to get to basically the same AUC for NPP as a target deca dose at steady state. While my doc doesn't seem real clued in (surprise), the 2:1 test:deca weekly dose pops up enough as a good trial ratio that it makes sense to me to try that first. But if I plug that dose in to an NPP calculator, I get to steady state quicker but at a much lower AUC than the steady state deca dose (assuming they're both 100mg/wk - so like 35mg MWF vs 50mg E3.5D for NPP vs deca).

So, if I leave aside the idea of a trial of NPP and then titrating on to deca, is there a general rule of thumb for equivalence of "seen dose" (or getting to the same AUC) for NPP vs. deca? Monkeying (which is what a McPriimate does, after all) with my excel mental masturbation models, for 100mg/week deca (E3.5d) I would need about 255mg/wk NPP (MWF) for similar AUC. Similar peak and trough levels for similar AUCs. Does that sound right, or am I missing something more fundamental?

Hopefully that question takes it from overthinking (what time of day should I take my every six hour dosing yada yada yada) to more generally helpful (how much NPP weekly, taken MWF, do I need to be equivalent to a weekly dose of deca taken in two split doses per week?). This stuff might be all core knowledge that y'all just have, but I can't find it for NPP/deca (maybe I'll search for something similar on short vs long test esters - just thought of that now...)

It might just still all be mental masturbation and I should just send it with the same weekly dose lol

Thanks!
McP

 

[McPriimate]

NPP has a 67.5% active hormone
Deca has a 64% active hormone.

If you are running a long cycle then Deca is the way to go IMO, if it's on the shorter side, then NPP. All due to half-life. If you do decide to do NPP inject ED or EOD.

The idea from the doc was to do an 8 or 12 week run of deca for the mangled shoulder and see how it goes/went at that point. I have a bunch of minor (and a couple major) joint issues from years of competitive endurance sports - mostly my shoulders. Having seen the light and shifted to resistance training (body builders look a f*ck ton better than triathletes lol - plus after this many trips around the sun it's way healthier to have the muscle), if it helps the joints as much for me as for some people, it's something I'd consider running repeatedly or for longer, lower doses.

Your point on the amount of hormone is important. When I look at the difference in the average blood levels, though, they're way more than the few percent (a bit over double the average blood level for deca at the same weekly dose). It does decrease it somewhat though, so would consider it as well.

What would you consider a short vs a long cycle in picking between NPP and deca?

Thanks!
McP

 

[Vision]

NPP has a 67.5% active hormone
Deca has a 64% active hormone.

If you are running a long cycle then Deca is the way to go IMO, if it's on the shorter side, then NPP. All due to half-life. If you do decide to do NPP inject ED or EOD.

You're right, I knew it had a 7 in it LOL, I had an early morning brain fart...

 

[Astro95]

So I'm not the only one lol.

And could I ask for a couple example numbers? So, if say you're targeting a dose of 100mg/week of deca, you'd start with daily NPP of how much (and then twice the 100mg/wk target of deca or twice the weekly dose of NPP)? I could try to build different models to figure it out, but figure it would be quicker to just ask!

I'm basically trying to get to a similar AUC for what the deca dose would stabilize at by using the NPP at the start, then doing the switcheroo part way through. So what you did would help with that middle part when I would switch over (provided I tolerated the NPP well)...

Thanks!
McP

If you’re going based off a x dose of Deca weekly then you can’t follow my approach. I chose a specific amount of nandrolone I wanted in the blood based off how much testosterone ng/dl I would have on my chosen dose. From there I used NPP for a short period to speed up blood concentration along with Deca to have it building up and not have a major drop off when NPP was pulled, Deca also at double the dose to hit my target blood concentration. I pin daily so all of this matters, blood concentrations will be different.

Essentially the only way for you to figure it out is to play with many different combinations, dosages, durations, etc if you plan to use both.

 

[Ckmeter]

Deca has a higher peak serum concentration per mg than npp, even with the Ester weight causing there to be slightly more nandrolone in npp. With that said, I switched from 600mgs of Deca to 600mgs of npp. The npp gave me far worse mental sides than the Deca. Deca just made me lazy as fuck.

 

[Dano22]

I’ve never lost a erection on NPP, noodle
Is useless every time after 5 weeks with Deca . NPP everytime for me, I know everyone is different. I’ve tried every which way with Deca, also in the camp with laziness and a depressive feeling . Not the case with NPP. Awesome drug

 

[McPriimate]

I’ve never lost a erection on NPP, noodle
Is useless every time after 5 weeks with Deca . NPP everytime for me, I know everyone is different. I’ve tried every which way with Deca, also in the camp with laziness and a depressive feeling . Not the case with NPP. Awesome drug

Mind if I ask what kind of dose and the ratio to test (or other) when you used deca - and I guess same for NPP since that worked for you?

McP


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[Dano22]

I’ve tried every which way brother , equal , less than , double with test ratio . As far as doses 400mgs and up is when I run into “numbness” . AIs and caber didn’t matter . NPP up to a gram with any test dose and I’m in a fantastic mood and can’t keep my hands off my wife

 

[McPriimate]

I’ve tried every which way brother , equal , less than , double with test ratio . As far as doses 400mgs and up is when I run into “numbness” . AIs and caber didn’t matter . NPP up to a gram with any test dose and I’m in a fantastic mood and can’t keep my hands off my wife

NPP looks like the way to go lol

Interesting on the deca dose for me, though, as I only plan to run it at less than 100 for joints/bone and not muscle growth so much. Doc prescribed deca (like to have a script when I can for various reasons), but might have to dip my toes into the NPP pond.

Although my wife was in the gym with me yesterday and saw the YouTube I had on about proviron and nandrolone and they both had “increases libido yada yada..” and she said “You sure as hell don’t need that!” lol TRT has been good to me, but NPP sounds fun

Thanks brother!

McP


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[Wally954]

I believe deca is the inferior drug if you are worried about side effects,with the long half life it compounds over time ,continuously building up in your body, it might have less peaks and valleys but that doesn’t mean less side effect, your receptors are more saturated and that’s probably not a good thing when it comes to deca,it seems to shut you down harder and longer than any other ped. I had a hell of a time trying to recover after using deca, on the other hand , npp has been awesome, I saw drastic changes in just 3-4 weeks, no deca dick , no depression , just a idgaf attitude about everything and a confidence boost