Thinking about trying a “hybrid” cycle (SARM+AAS)

[PrimordialPrimo]

So today I took my first shot of DHB. Very excited to try this PED.

I’ve got some S23 on hand and I’m debating using it as a kickstart like how you would with an oral like Winstrol or Var since S23 has been compared to both of them.

The only thing I’m really concerned about is overheating as both anecdotally have some fat-burning/metabolic or thermogenic action.

I’m decently lean (~10%) already so I’m more focused on adding quality size and putting on mass than a recomp.

Has anyone used this combo and does anyone think this combo could be problematic in putting size on? I ask simply because I already have to eat a lot to put on size as my metabolism is pretty crazy. I wouldn’t want this stack to work against my goal of putting on a bit more weight and size.

The other concern is that since both drugs have a very high affinity and AR signaling that it might actually be a waste of drugs to use both as one might “boot” the other off the receptor.

Thoughts? Opinions? Grievous complaints?

 

[Meetketchup]

No, let the DHB do its thing and keep it simple. You don't need to kickstart anything, especially w/ S23. I tried it when it first came out and was not kind to bloods (also the bloods I've seen from other people) and is extremely weak, nothing like anavar, which is 10x the compound. Just because you have something on hand doesn't mean you have to use it.

 

[PrimordialPrimo]

No, let the DHB do its thing and keep it simple. You don't need to kickstart anything, especially w/ S23. I tried it when it first came out and was not kind to bloods (also the bloods I've seen from other people) and is extremely weak, nothing like anavar, which is 10x the compound. Just because you have something on hand doesn't mean you have to use it.

This seems like solid advice.

That being said do you have any recommendations with DHB dosage? I’m starting low @100mg per week & plan on working up to 200-300 per week slowly.

Heard conflicting reports on how strong and the lowest effective dose. Some claim it’s extremely strong at 200 per week and some run it as high as 500-700. I’m a firm believer in lower doses and I tend to respond well even to baby doses which most would consider pointless

 

[Meetketchup]

300mg is a sweet spot for many people, but I have a similar approach to you. Use the lowest most efficient dose. I would roll with 250mg and see how you respond. Just my opinion.

 

[PrimordialPrimo]

300mg is a sweet spot for many people, but I have a similar approach to you. Use the lowest most efficient dose. I would roll with 250mg and see how you respond. Just my opinion.

Thanks for the advice! Have you had any experience with DHB?

 

[Battousai]

Sarms are worthless

 

[Meetketchup]

Thanks for the advice! Have you had any experience with DHB?

I wouldn't comment on it if I didn't. It's been years since I've used it. Much better options.

 

[PrimordialPrimo]

I wouldn't comment on it if I didn't. It's been years since I've used it. Much better options.

I figured it was a fair assumption you did since you commented but was more curious about specifically your results & experience with it. Were you using it to bulk cut or recomp and how were the gains?

Hard to find info and experience reports on DHB so always looking to hear about people’s luck with it

Also when you mention better options I assume you mean mast/primo? I refuse to touch 19-Nors and DHB seemed like the next best/most potent/best value AAS to use.

If I was made of money I’d run a gram of primo, I’ll get there one day but for now it’s DHB

 

[badgerz94]

I've used DHB three times in the past. I used it at 300 mg per week with 450 mg per week of Sustanon each time. I put on 5-7 lbs. of lean mass over 13 week cycles. I find it to be better than Masteron but not quite as good as Primo. But DHB is way cheaper than Primo and won't nuke your hairline like Masteron does and even Primo can slightly fuck up your hairline. DHB is a good compound. Best of luck to you.

 

[PrimordialPrimo]

I've used DHB three times in the past. I used it at 300 mg per week with 450 mg per week of Sustanon each time. I put on 5-7 lbs. of lean mass over 13 week cycles. I find it to be better than Masteron but not quite as good as Primo. But DHB is way cheaper than Primo and won't nuke your hairline like Masteron does and even Primo can slightly fuck up your hairline. DHB is a good compound. Best of luck to you.

When you say not as good as primo I’m assuming you mean high dose primo? Cause everywhere else people are calling it “super primo” or a much more potent primo because it provides much of the same results (dry lean mass/fullness) with a much lower dose.

What dose of primo would you compare the effects of 300mg DHB to in your opinion?

 

[JC33]

Injectable yk-11 is pretty wild lol

 

[PrimordialPrimo]

Injectable yk-11 is pretty wild lol

I wanted to run YK until I found out it’s not a DHT compound at all but is in fact structurally is closer to a 19-nor/progestin

And I refuse to touch 19-nors or anything with prolactin/progesterone sides. I won’t touch Adrol due to this but I absolutely love most DHT based compounds I’ve tried, my body and androgenic DHTs get along very well lol

 

[JC33]

I wanted to run YK until I found out it’s not a DHT compound at all but is in fact structurally is closer to a 19-nor/progestin

And I refuse to touch 19-nors or anything with prolactin/progesterone sides. I won’t touch Adrol due to this but I absolutely love most DHT based compounds I’ve tried, my body and androgenic DHTs get along very well lol

I don’t believe there’s any progestigenic activity at all with yk. It will dry you out fast, and make you strong as shit. Lots of muscle tears on it

 

[PrimordialPrimo]

I don’t believe there’s any progestigenic activity at all with yk. It will dry you out fast, and make you strong as shit. Lots of muscle tears on it

Tren will too but it still has prolactin/progesterone affinity/side effects. Just cause something dries you out doesn’t mean it has no PR/PRL affinity.
I’m saying structurally the molecule is most similar to a 19-nor/progestin, which is important because most people are spreading false information that it is a DHT. I almost ran it until I found that out.

For me personally 19-nors/progestins give me INSTANT gyno so I’m not taking the chance.

 

[PrimordialPrimo]

Sarms are worthless

Please elaborate on why you think so. Many jacked and well respected BBs take SARMs seriously…albeit only one or two of them; most are trash compared to AAS I agree. But there are at least a few that seem worth running even if you can get real gear. Those few probably being:
LGD
S23
YK-11

Obviously cardarine and MK have their own place but don’t really consider them anabolics in the same way the above 3 are.

 

[chadmack]

I wanted to run YK until I found out it’s not a DHT compound at all but is in fact structurally is closer to a 19-nor/progestin

And I refuse to touch 19-nors or anything with prolactin/progesterone sides. I won’t touch Adrol due to this but I absolutely love most DHT based compounds I’ve tried, my body and androgenic DHTs get along very well lol

Why do u refuse to run 19-nors?
Have u had prolactin issues?

 

[PrimordialPrimo]

Why do u refuse to run 19-nors?
Have u had prolactin issues?

Several reasons I think they are much harder on the body/mind overall than DHTs (Tren being the best example; with deca having its own issues; & MENT well…just no ). Certainly my body does not tolerate them.

I am very gyno prone so DHTs are the only class of AAS that don’t give me issues there. Even test above 80mg/week will flare it up.

On DHTs I feel amazing in and out gym.
19-nors instantly make me a head-case and tank my libido.

 

[chadmack]

Several reasons I think they are much harder on the body/mind overall than DHTs (Tren being the best example; with deca having its own issues; & MENT well…just no ). Certainly my body does not tolerate them.

I am very gyno prone so DHTs are the only class of AAS that don’t give me issues there. Even test above 80mg/week will flare it up.

On DHTs I feel amazing in and out gym.
19-nors instantly make me a head-case and tank my libido.

But u r willing to take s23 sarms that don't have any long term data with humans.
NPP isnt more harsh than dhb.
Keep your estrogen in range, supplement p-5-p 100mg ed(helps keep prolactin in check, just a supplement), 25mg proviron ed with a moderate dose of NPP 250-300 with test a lil higher.
I bet you would be happy, if not with the short ester 1-3days all is clear.
Mind u this is just a suggestion do as u wish

 

[PrimordialPrimo]

But u r willing to take s23 sarms that don't have any long term data with humans.
NPP isnt more harsh than dhb.
Keep your estrogen in range, supplement p-5-p 100mg ed(helps keep prolactin in check, just a supplement), 25mg proviron ed with a moderate dose of NPP 250-300 with test a lil higher.
I bet you would be happy, if not with the short ester 1-3days all is clear.
Mind u this is just a suggestion do as u wish

Forgot to mention I tend to stay away from wet compounds in general that can give a lot of water weight or bloat I wanna put on size but hard dense quality size. Another reason why I stick to DHTs I’m trying to stay lean & mean. not a fan of the bloated puffy look at all personally which is another reason I’ve always written off nandrolone. I’ll take the slower quality gains of a hardening DHT all day. Love masteron (don’t run test without it) and primo but primo is expensive

 

[chadmack]

Forgot to mention I tend to stay away from wet compounds in general that can give a lot of water weight or bloat I wanna put on size but hard dense quality size. Another reason why I stick to DHTs I’m trying to stay lean & mean. not a fan of the bloated puffy look at all personally which is another reason I’ve always written off nandrolone. I’ll take the slower quality gains of a hardening DHT all day. Love masteron (don’t run test without it) and primo but primo is expensive

From what u just said u would love NPP.

 

[chadmack]

Forgot to mention I tend to stay away from wet compounds in general that can give a lot of water weight or bloat I wanna put on size but hard dense quality size. Another reason why I stick to DHTs I’m trying to stay lean & mean. not a fan of the bloated puffy look at all personally which is another reason I’ve always written off nandrolone. I’ll take the slower quality gains of a hardening DHT all day. Love masteron (don’t run test without it) and primo but primo is expensive

Test(tp or tpp), NPP, mastp u would b thrilled.
Just about only cycle I run, no bloat or puffyness, that's why a lot of guys use NPP over deca it's a lot drier.

 

[PrimordialPrimo]

Test(tp or tpp), NPP, mastp u would b thrilled.
Just about only cycle I run, no bloat or puffyness, that's why a lot of guys use NPP over deca it's a lot drier.

Still never made sense to me how the same molecule with a different ester attached could be “drier” when nandrolone is well known as a wet or bulking AAS. It’s the same molecule.

People say the same thing about test prop (allegedly less bloat) vs E but I get plenty of bloat from both

 

[Battousai]

Please elaborate on why you think so. Many jacked and well respected BBs take SARMs seriously…albeit only one or two of them; most are trash compared to AAS I agree. But there are at least a few that seem worth running even if you can get real gear. Those few probably being:
LGD
S23
YK-11

Obviously cardarine and MK have their own place but don’t really consider them anabolics in the same way the above 3 are.

It all depends on the purpose. YK-11 is different because of the myostatin purposes. Using them to boost test or hgh is dumb when you can just actually use test and hgh, which more effective with less side effects.

 

[NDflowback]

Still never made sense to me how the same molecule with a different ester attached could be “drier” when nandrolone is well known as a wet or bulking AAS. It’s the same molecule.

People say the same thing about test prop (allegedly less bloat) vs E but I get plenty of bloat from both

That’s part of what makes messing with our chemistry so interesting. Regardless of the hard science, each person’s individual genetics reacts a little different.
I’ve done test with dbol and Anadrol using no AI and get zero gyno effects.

As for your original question the only “sarm” I’ve ran with test is mk677 which we know isn’t actually a sarm. Had mild results but not like running high dose hgh

 

[chadmack]

Still never made sense to me how the same molecule with a different ester attached could be “drier” when nandrolone is well known as a wet or bulking AAS. It’s the same molecule.

People say the same thing about test prop (allegedly less bloat) vs E but I get plenty of bloat from both

If u never tried u would know, good luck with the sarms tho....

 

[chadmack]

Still never made sense to me how the same molecule with a different ester attached could be “drier” when nandrolone is well known as a wet or bulking AAS. It’s the same molecule.

People say the same thing about test prop (allegedly less bloat) vs E but I get plenty of bloat from b

Still never made sense to me how the same molecule with a different ester attached could be “drier” when nandrolone is well known as a wet or bulking AAS. It’s the same molecule.

People say the same thing about test prop (allegedly less bloat) vs E but I get plenty of bloat from both

Tren hex , ace, & e give many people different side, it's pretty common.
Test esters give people different sides also.
A lot of has to do with different pinning frequency.
This isn't 1 size fits all.

 

[Bolan]

Sarms are worthless

Except for YK-11.
Holy fuckin hell that stuff works awesome.... Im just afraid to use it too often because of the
lack of data of it being used on humans and the side effects it may pose hasn't been discovered yet.
I find Inj YK to be AWESOME for people who are close or are genetically tapped out on gains.
Dammit.... Now I got to order some.

 

[Bolan]

I wanted to run YK until I found out it’s not a DHT compound at all but is in fact structurally is closer to a 19-nor/progestin

And I refuse to touch 19-nors or anything with prolactin/progesterone sides. I won’t touch Adrol due to this but I absolutely love most DHT based compounds I’ve tried, my body and androgenic DHTs get along very well lol

YK will turn you into a rock if your lean enough.

 

[Battousai]

Except for YK-11.
Holy fuckin hell that stuff works awesome.... Im just afraid to use it too often because of the
lack of data of it being used on humans and the side effects it may pose hasn't been discovered yet.
I find Inj YK to be AWESOME for people who are close or are genetically tapped out on gains.
Dammit.... Now I got to order some.

I still haven't tried it. On the to do list.

 

[badgerz94]

When you say not as good as primo I’m assuming you mean high dose primo? Cause everywhere else people are calling it “super primo” or a much more potent primo because it provides much of the same results (dry lean mass/fullness) with a much lower dose.

What dose of primo would you compare the effects of 300mg DHB to in your opinion?

I don't subscribe to the Greg Doucette/MPMD philosophy that DHB is 3X stronger than Primo (ex: 300mg DHB = 900mg Primo). All I know is that 300mg a week of DHB in conjunction with Test will help add good lean muscle if you have a good diet.