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What Brought Down the Palm Beach Learjet? Pilots Break It Down

Arnold

Arnold

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A deadly plane crash in Palm Beach has left nine people dead and raised urgent questions about what went wrong in the final moments of the flight. Dr. Phil is joined by Harold Katinszky, Commercial Aviation Expert & Collision Analyst to examine the Learjet 60 tragedy, analyzing flight data, air traffic control communications, and weather radar imagery for clues. Could severe thunderstorms, dangerous icing conditions, or a sudden loss of airspeed have contributed to the aircraft's fatal descent? As federal investigators work to determine the cause, Dr. Phil and Katinszky separate the available evidence from speculation, challenge unsubstantiated conspiracy theories, and examine the critical questions facing the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB). The investigation remains ongoing, and no official cause has been established.

View: https://youtu.be/AVMgKUZAaDE?si=7YazzHZ7w4-C2-L5
 
Most people don’t understand just how powerful and treacherous on other ways a thunderstorm is and just how fragile even a larger private jet is by comparison. I give convective shit a wiiiide berth for a very good reason


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I work on those 60s, they are a shitty design, I pretty much dont like lears at all they are 10lbs of shit packed into a 2 lb bag. planes that go into a dive like that lost their horizontal stabilizer. In those still before the plane impacts I dont see the horizontal and the vertical looks crooked. they found the elevators miles away and thats the control surface that controls pitch. The horizontal stab actuator fail alot on those. I bet they had written up "stab trim fail" multiple times. they will ultimately rule it pilot error
 
heckler7 said:
I work on those 60s, they are a shitty design, I pretty much dont like lears at all they are 10lbs of shit packed into a 2 lb bag. planes that go into a dive like that lost their horizontal stabilizer. In those still before the plane impacts I dont see the horizontal and the vertical looks crooked. they found the elevators miles away and thats the control surface that controls pitch. The horizontal stab actuator fail alot on those. I bet they had written up "stab trim fail" multiple times. they will ultimately rule it pilot error
Click to expand...

It’s always pilot error to the FAA. Fly close to convective activity? Pilot error. Icing? Why didn’t you fly somewhere else - pilot error. Hit by a MANPAD? Should’ve popped flares and dove - pilot error. ;)

Lazy on their part, but most often the meatware actually is the weakest link (but not always in a Lear lol)

But yeah, lose the elevators and it’s a bad day. She reported clear ice a bit before and that shit scares the pants off me. It’s why I’m a self-proclaimed chicken pilot. I don’t care who’s in the plane with me, ima do everything I can to have dinner with my wife and not St. Peter


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I’ve watched all the vids of that plane hitting the ground. Slow-mo, real time, frame by frame. Then I made the mistake of listening to the ATC recording and I can’t get it out of my head. I cannot imagine what it would be like to be plunging straight down towards the ground at nearly the speed of sound. Not only that, but the flight went from a slight climb to crashing in 78 seconds. That’s it. Imagine sitting in that cockpit, starting a climb to try and get out of trouble to being dead in 78 seconds later. My heart breaks for all the victims, but especially for that young co-pilot. The terror in her voice is haunting and not easily forgotten.
 
Machforce1 said:
I’ve watched all the vids of that plane hitting the ground. Slow-mo, real time, frame by frame. Then I made the mistake of listening to the ATC recording and I can’t get it out of my head. I cannot imagine what it would be like to be plunging straight down towards the ground at nearly the speed of sound. Not only that, but the flight went from a slight climb to crashing in 78 seconds. That’s it. Imagine sitting in that cockpit, starting a climb to try and get out of trouble to being dead in 78 seconds later. My heart breaks for all the victims, but especially for that young co-pilot. The terror in her voice is haunting and not easily forgotten.
Click to expand...
This news is a reality for us all to truly appreciate our lives, man. It is heartbreaking.
 
Machforce1 said:
I’ve watched all the vids of that plane hitting the ground. Slow-mo, real time, frame by frame. Then I made the mistake of listening to the ATC recording and I can’t get it out of my head. I cannot imagine what it would be like to be plunging straight down towards the ground at nearly the speed of sound. Not only that, but the flight went from a slight climb to crashing in 78 seconds. That’s it. Imagine sitting in that cockpit, starting a climb to try and get out of trouble to being dead in 78 seconds later. My heart breaks for all the victims, but especially for that young co-pilot. The terror in her voice is haunting and not easily forgotten.
Click to expand...
thats why I believe they lost the H stab, cause they most likely used pitch trim when they tried to climb and the actuator failed. when we get stab fails and cant duplicate it we remove the actuator and put it in the freezer overnight and then see if it drives in the morning. those lear 60s are all engine with a super small wing. all that holds that stab down at the leading edge is 1 bolt. imagine the load that bolt takes every take off along with freezing it and heating it everyday
 
heckler7 said:
several planes crash a week, I think because of the audio it went viral
Click to expand...
This is true, but this one had two really small children on board and basically a child at the helm. Just feels different than the others. I think we’ve all wondered what it would be like to be in a plane crash and after hearing the sheer terror in Nathalia’s voice, it became more real for all of us. Plus there’s actual video with sound of the Lear hitting the ground. It’s sickening to watch and to know those poor babies were in that thing when she hit the earth.
 
heckler7 said:
thats why I believe they lost the H stab, cause they most likely used pitch trim when they tried to climb and the actuator failed. when we get stab fails and cant duplicate it we remove the actuator and put it in the freezer overnight and then see if it drives in the morning. those lear 60s are all engine with a super small wing. all that holds that stab down at the leading edge is 1 bolt. imagine the load that bolt takes every take off along with freezing it and heating it everyday
Click to expand...
Completely agree with you. The rapid decent started almost immediately after they tried to climb, which would indicate loss of the horizontal stabilizer. Likely from icing of the plane, but also from poor design like you mentioned.
 
Machforce1 said:
This is true, but this one had two really small children on board and basically a child at the helm. Just feels different than the others. I think we’ve all wondered what it would be like to be in a plane crash and after hearing the sheer terror in Nathalia’s voice, it became more real for all of us. .
Click to expand...
I instantly regretted listening to it. I can't fathom what they were going through in those moments.
 
Machforce1 said:
I’ve watched all the vids of that plane hitting the ground. Slow-mo, real time, frame by frame. Then I made the mistake of listening to the ATC recording and I can’t get it out of my head. I cannot imagine what it would be like to be plunging straight down towards the ground at nearly the speed of sound. Not only that, but the flight went from a slight climb to crashing in 78 seconds. That’s it. Imagine sitting in that cockpit, starting a climb to try and get out of trouble to being dead in 78 seconds later. My heart breaks for all the victims, but especially for that young co-pilot. The terror in her voice is haunting and not easily forgotten.
Click to expand...
Yahhh the audio was pretty rough
 
Arnold said:
A deadly plane crash in Palm Beach has left nine people dead and raised urgent questions about what went wrong in the final moments of the flight. Dr. Phil is joined by Harold Katinszky, Commercial Aviation Expert & Collision Analyst to examine the Learjet 60 tragedy, analyzing flight data, air traffic control communications, and weather radar imagery for clues. Could severe thunderstorms, dangerous icing conditions, or a sudden loss of airspeed have contributed to the aircraft's fatal descent? As federal investigators work to determine the cause, Dr. Phil and Katinszky separate the available evidence from speculation, challenge unsubstantiated conspiracy theories, and examine the critical questions facing the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB). The investigation remains ongoing, and no official cause has been established.

View: https://youtu.be/AVMgKUZAaDE?si=7YazzHZ7w4-C2-L5
Click to expand...
I can't bring myself to watch this for the obvious reason.....Dr. Phil
 
dirtdevil84 said:
I can't bring myself to watch this for the obvious reason.....Dr. Phil
Click to expand...
Don’t listen to the ATC audio either unless you want your heart ripped out of your chest. I’m serious. I have a daughter about the same age as the co-pilot and hearing her scream like that tears me to shreds.
 
same thing happened to alaska air 261 off oxnard, you lose the stab your going straight down nothing you can do
 

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