Jumping back on gear after 3 weeks cruise?

[ruffus]

As most blood work is built off of the average(normal) person, which tends to be overweight in my country, have a less then healthy diet and lifestyle. The body can have normal levels and still be acrewing damage/wear and tear. As it is working hard to just keep things in a less then optimal range even if it is a normal range. We all have our own comfort zone as to what we are willing to risk.

 

[foodovergear]

Oh boy....this thread...

Starting with the OP's handle "foodovergear" wanting to go non-stop on gear.

xaxaxa that was the first thing that popped in my head for my name, but the meaning here is different: lots of ppl take gear, but dont focus on the simplest things - food, training and recovery and expect results. just a fun thing i noticed in the most with the years.

 

[Syntha Claus]

xaxaxa that was the first thing that popped in my head for my name, but the meaning here is different: lots of ppl take gear, but dont focus on the simplest things - food, training and recovery and expect results. just a fun thing i noticed in the most with the years.

Well, you are absolutely correct in this. I have been puking this out all over the forum for years.

 

[Montego]

Never said anything about how great I am, just that I'm definitely bigger and look better than your client and you if the truth be told. Never said anything about anyone else here, just about your weak fragile and mouthy client and yourself. Someone needs to slap the shit out of you for even putting anabolics into that little kid and giving him hopes for something that is never going to happen. And you have absolutely zero business coaching anyone and your client is proof of that. You need to learn how to comprehend the things you read because you suck at that too.

Prove it

 

[Montego]

People with superior genetics don’t typically say they have superior genetics they show it

Here’s an 8 month off season for with 20 weeks on 1100mg of gear. Both are 7 days out.

Again, it’s ok your 20 years hasn’t produced anything man

Which one is the before?

 

[Oakley6575]

“I’m huge and look better than you bro under the 100 lbs of fat I’m holding”

This^^. Its even funnier, because if he doesn't have his readers on, he missed the last part.

 

[Syntha Claus]

Easy on the old man bashing.

On the health phase thing…
Do you need to actually be healthy to be in a health phase.
And if I spell it like you young fellers “health faze”, do my health markers matter still?

 

[Oakley6575]

Easy on the old man bashing.

On the health phase thing…
Do you need to actually be healthy to be in a health phase.
And if I spell it like you young fellers “health faze”, do my health markers matter still?

We don't spell it like that.

Please point me in the direction where any of us young fellers said that health markers don't matter.. This is what is so frustrating with guys who just want to argue. I don't remember ever writing or seeing any young fellers telling anyone that health phases aren't needed or health markers don't matter. The only thing us young fellers disagreed with, is the ridiculous statement, Time on equals Time off.

That is such a stupid blanket statement that is not practical for guys who take bodybuilding seriously. All we have said, is that you should take a health phase, until your markers get back into a healthy range. Once you are healthy, then you accomplished your goals... Would you tell some one, your time in off season equals your time in contest prep.. What if I stayed lean during my growth phase? Why in the hell would I arbitrarily cut for the same amount of time as I spent in a surplus? If I'm shredded, or got to a leanness that I wanted to get to, why would I keep going. I've accomplished my goal.. Or in the opposite case, If I got fat in my off season, and I grew for 12 weeks, then I'm not going to arbitraritly cut for 12 weeks.. No, I'm going to cut until I'm lean.

"Time on equals time off" - Idiot

 

[kegger44]

lol you seem very up tight man

Do I think I’m invincible? Fuck no. Do I think smart AAS usage is less harmful than drinking every weekend? Yes

I’ve spoken with my coach extensively about this topic and the “time on time off” is a great way to make minimal progress on gear for no reason.

Outside of a prep. Normal dosages of 500-1500mg of gear(excluding the toxic things like you mentioned) shouldn’t require 16 weeks off a cycle, if, you’re eating clean, doing cardio and training hard. If that’s fucking up your bloodwork or organs you have other issues to address

When you keep blasting all this gear your body starts to adapt and doesn't respond as well. Even people on TRT after 5 years. They have to take double the dose to get the numbers they use to. You're obviously extremely young and extremely stubborn. And yeah you have a bit of an invincibility complex.

 

[thebiggestdumbass]

Even people on TRT after 5 years.

Let’s see the research on this.

 

[dcdogz]

Let’s see the research on this.

ive heard of this and they called it androgen creep.

the only science youre gonna find on it is the best science. bro science.

 

[Montego]

We don't spell it like that.

Please point me in the direction where any of us young fellers said that health markers don't matter.. This is what is so frustrating with guys who just want to argue. I don't remember ever writing or seeing any young fellers telling anyone that health phases aren't needed or health markers don't matter. The only thing us young fellers disagreed with, is the ridiculous statement, Time on equals Time off.

That is such a stupid blanket statement that is not practical for guys who take bodybuilding seriously. All we have said, is that you should take a health phase, until your markers get back into a healthy range. Once you are healthy, then you accomplished your goals... Would you tell some one, your time in off season equals your time in contest prep.. What if I stayed lean during my growth phase? Why in the hell would I arbitrarily cut for the same amount of time as I spent in a surplus? If I'm shredded, or got to a leanness that I wanted to get to, why would I keep going. I've accomplished my goal.. Or in the opposite case, If I got fat in my off season, and I grew for 12 weeks, then I'm not going to arbitraritly cut for 12 weeks.. No, I'm going to cut until I'm lean.

"Time on equals time off" - Idiot

Don't think he was speaking directly to you lol

 

[Oakley6575]

Don't think he was speaking directly to you lol

Maybe not, but since I was boomer bashing the guy giving stupid advice, I thought he was lumping me in the young feller crowd based on what he said.

 

[Montego]

We don't spell it like that.

Please point me in the direction where any of us young fellers said that health markers don't matter.. This is what is so frustrating with guys who just want to argue. I don't remember ever writing or seeing any young fellers telling anyone that health phases aren't needed or health markers don't matter. The only thing us young fellers disagreed with, is the ridiculous statement, Time on equals Time off.

That is such a stupid blanket statement that is not practical for guys who take bodybuilding seriously. All we have said, is that you should take a health phase, until your markers get back into a healthy range. Once you are healthy, then you accomplished your goals... Would you tell some one, your time in off season equals your time in contest prep.. What if I stayed lean during my growth phase? Why in the hell would I arbitrarily cut for the same amount of time as I spent in a surplus? If I'm shredded, or got to a leanness that I wanted to get to, why would I keep going. I've accomplished my goal.. Or in the opposite case, If I got fat in my off season, and I grew for 12 weeks, then I'm not going to arbitraritly cut for 12 weeks.. No, I'm going to cut until I'm lean.

"Time on equals time off" - Idiot

The time on equals time off thing is from when guys would pct so it's just be ingrained and parroted on forums for years so, it's just one of the things that used to be applicable but, these days, guys just don't want to run a PCT.

If you're going to PCT, it's still the best approach though

In terms of guys like yourself, there's just as much nuance with the time between cycles though. How your markers before the cycle, during the cycle, at the end of the cycle, after the prescribed time off. The first two are overlooked and they're the most important IMO. Some guys have awful bloods while they're on but recover quickly. Does that mean they've been 'off' long enough because things "look good" 6 weeks post? I would say no.

How does someone respond to gear health wise and progress wise. I've been able to run stupid doses with no impact on my bloodwork (only 1 time it got out of hand) but, I also don't see the dramatic improvements a lot see from gear itself. So for me, in the past, I've had to really push doses to get "acceptable progress " and 6 weeks after the cycle, blood work looks good.... Should I start another cycle if I came off 2g test, 700mg tren, 500mg Deca, 50 units of lantus, 8iu GH, whatever orals I had in there for 20 weeks? No, probably not.

It's just so person dependent there's no "best answer" but, time on vs time off is usually a very acceptable place to start, especially if someone is asking how long they should wait.

 

[Montego]

Maybe not, but since I was boomer bashing the guy giving stupid advice, I thought he was lumping me in the young feller crowd based on what he said.

You leave us 40+ crowd alone sir

 

[FearsomeCOR]

I’d say blood marker/health markers are more relevant now in the bb community than ever. Most people I know that take this seriously are doing their best to stay healthy WHILE on, and basing their protocol/dosages etc off regular lab work through most of the year (obviously we must accept varying levels of skewing based on goals and risk tolerance) rather than arbitrary numbers of weeks.

I think the black and white concept that time on = time off likely, as @Montego said, goes back to when pcting was more popular and also actually checking bloodwork was less relevant so that time off was moreso a safety net.

 

[dcdogz]

I’d say blood marker/health markers are more relevant now in the bb community than ever. Most people I know that take this seriously are doing their best to stay healthy WHILE on, and basing their protocol/dosages etc off regular lab work through most of the year (obviously we must accept varying levels of skewing based on goals and risk tolerance) rather than arbitrary numbers of weeks.

I think the black and white concept that time on = time off likely, as @Montego said, goes back to when pcting was more popular and also actually checking bloodwork was less relevant so that time off was moreso a safety net.

its also varies person to person a ton.
if i take var, for even a week, better not check my lipids for 4 months to 5 months. they are trashed for a long long time.
and I threw every supp in the book at it. made no difference.
tbol takes much less, havent tried winnie yet but hoping its a little easier on me.

 

[FearsomeCOR]

its also varies person to person a ton.
if i take var, for even a week, better not check my lipids for 4 months to 5 months. they are trashed for a long long time.
and I threw every supp in the book at it. made no difference.
tbol takes much less, havent tried winnie yet but hoping its a little easier on me.

If Im being honest I expect winny to be even harsher on your labs, but for your sake ill say a prayer for ya

 

[dcdogz]

If Im being honest I expect winny to be even harsher on your labs, but for your sake ill say a prayer for ya

Amen

 

[Syntha Claus]

Don't think he was speaking directly to you lol

Nor did I take a position on this at all. At least not in this thread, because it’s a shit show and needed some levity.
But for the record, I think “time on equals time off” is fine for a KISS approach which is even over the heads of plenty of guys here.

I personally and from experience know that even more time off is beneficial. The whole idea of pushing for maximum gains in a set period is ridiculous to me too. Maybe great if you are wanting everything now, but trust me when I say the later matters more.

Very few guys will become pro’s and even fewer will ever do a pro show. So what’s the point?
The guys I know who allow muscle and change to come at the appropriate rate are the guys who look the best and might be at this longer.
Dudes who grew fast from pushing loads of gear don’t look the same as guys who developed over the appropriate amount of time.
I don’t see how anyone who has been around competitive bodybuilding for any legth of time could dispute this.

 

[Oakley6575]

I’d say blood marker/health markers are more relevant now in the bb community than ever. Most people I know that take this seriously are doing their best to stay healthy WHILE on, and basing their protocol/dosages etc off regular lab work through most of the year (obviously we must accept varying levels of skewing based on goals and risk tolerance) rather than arbitrary numbers of weeks.

This right here is a great point that I see as a non negotiable in my growth and cutting phases. I guess the time on/time off crowd doesn't do this or doesn't really do everything they can to stay healthy while on gear. So the excessive time off, isn't really excessive for them, and fixes all the bad markers. In that case, yea obviously you take as long of a health phase as needed. Which is right back to my original take on the subject. Take as much time as YOU need to get healthy and get your body in a position to thrive during your next phase.

 

[Montego]

This right here is a great point that I see as a non negotiable in my growth and cutting phases. I guess the time on/time off crowd doesn't do this or doesn't really do everything they can to stay healthy while on gear. So the excessive time off, isn't really excessive for them, and fixes all the bad markers. In that case, yea obviously you take as long of a health phase as needed. Which is right back to my original take on the subject. Take as much time as YOU need to get healthy and get your body in a position to thrive during your next phase.

Don't skip over my post damn it

 

[rawbuilt]

Time on equals Time off

your stuck in 2001.. nobody does that anymore

 

[Oakley6575]

The time on equals time off thing is from when guys would pct so it's just be ingrained and parroted on forums for years so, it's just one of the things that used to be applicable but, these days, guys just don't want to run a PCT.

If you're going to PCT, it's still the best approach though

In terms of guys like yourself, there's just as much nuance with the time between cycles though. How your markers before the cycle, during the cycle, at the end of the cycle, after the prescribed time off. The first two are overlooked and they're the most important IMO. Some guys have awful bloods while they're on but recover quickly. Does that mean they've been 'off' long enough because things "look good" 6 weeks post? I would say no.

How does someone respond to gear health wise and progress wise. I've been able to run stupid doses with no impact on my bloodwork (only 1 time it got out of hand) but, I also don't see the dramatic improvements a lot see from gear itself. So for me, in the past, I've had to really push doses to get "acceptable progress " and 6 weeks after the cycle, blood work looks good.... Should I start another cycle if I came off 2g test, 700mg tren, 500mg Deca, 50 units of lantus, 8iu GH, whatever orals I had in there for 20 weeks? No, probably not.

It's just so person dependent there's no "best answer" but, time on vs time off is usually a very acceptable place to start, especially if someone is asking how long they should wait.

Don't skip over my post damn it

Oh i didn't. I agree with everything you said so I didn't really have much to say about it. OP never mentioned a pct so that isn't applicable.

As far as your big cycle, I feel like that is another nuance situation. Why did you come off after 20 weeks? What is your body comp like? What is the next phase? Why would you run that much gear again for this next phase, or at least that much right away? Lots of variables. But if you came off after 20 weeks, just because you ran gear for 20 weeks, body comp is still crispy, bloodwork is perfect, blood pressure is perfect, I'd have to ask, why did you even come off? I feel like the sudden drop in hormones and then reintroducing that amount of hormones would bring up worse side effects than just staying on those six weeks. Nuance, nuance, nuance. Everything is nuance and requires context.

"Time on equals time off." - Idiot.

 

[Montego]

Oh i didn't. I agree with everything you said so I didn't really have much to say about it. OP never mentioned a pct so that isn't applicable.

As far as your big cycle, I feel like that is another nuance situation. Why did you come off after 20 weeks? What is your body comp like? What is the next phase? Why would you run that much gear again for this next phase, or at least that much right away? Lots of variables. But if you came off after 20 weeks, just because you ran gear for 20 weeks, body comp is still crispy, bloodwork is perfect, blood pressure is perfect, I'd have to ask, why did you even come off? I feel like the sudden drop in hormones and then reintroducing that amount of hormones would bring up worse side effects than just staying on those six weeks. Nuance, nuance, nuance. Everything is nuance and requires context.

"Time on equals time off." - Idiot.

Oh I'm not agreeing with time on is time off OR just need good bloods.

Gen Pop, time on equals time off. "Serious" bodybuilder, all the stuff we listed above.

You gotta realize you're in the 1% of gear users. There's a million idiots out there who will never do anything besides just run the gear without dieing or really training, for every one of you.

The PCT thing, and time off, my point is it's just parroted info that was very relevant years ago. It's STILL the safest way to go about things IMO. Most optimal, no. Safest? Besides just not using gear, yeah it's the safest

 

[Sector.]

The tren flows strong in this thread

Either that, or @Oakley6575 really hates Monday’s

 

[FearsomeCOR]

You leave us 40+ crowd alone sir

I’m young and ngl Im not sure what the original message was intended to say either still

 

[CThresh20]

Not at all man I’m a huge fan of health phases. Our bodies aren’t meant to operate under the stress gear places us under.

But to say “time on equals time off” is just bad advice. If your 8 weeks into a health phase after running 500 test and 300 mast, I’d guess most people feel fantastic and their bloodwork is looking better (if it was even bad) than it was after the blast. What are you going to do with the other 8 weeks, keep maintaining and not cutting/growing?

Obviously I think one should do whatever they’re comfortable with.

“Time on equals time off” isn’t really meant to be gospel. Kind of dumb that that is what resulted in this drawn out argument, and REALLY dumb that this turned into a dick measuring contest. The time on equals time off idea is just generally a good rule of thumb for people who cycle gear, probably guys who do minimal-to-no bloodwork, who don’t compete and just want a little boost by cycling gear. If you’re competing the rules for you are different, you’re highly optimized and you’re probably willing to sacrifice a bit to stay optimal. We all start with some sort of baseline and then grow and learn as we go. I don’t follow that advice anymore but if that’s all you have to go off, it’s not bad or wrong.

Even if you do bloodwork the reality is that not everything shows up on bloodwork. There are complications from steroid abuse that isn’t immediately apparent with bloodwork.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Big_Jimmy434]

Yeah, but how long should I wait after eating before I go swimming so I dont get cramps and drown? That's what I really need to know.

 

[thebiggestdumbass]

The time on equals time off idea is just generally a good rule of thumb for people who cycle gear, probably guys who do minimal-to-no bloodwork, who don’t compete and just want a little boost by cycling gear.

I agree with you, but it didn’t apply to this thread is the point I was trying to make before getting into a dick measuring contest

In this specific case OP wanted to know if he could blast because his bloodwork looked good after coming off a rather moderate dosage cycle. I don’t know anything about OP other than the labs he posted, which looked good, but based on those why should he spend an extra 19 weeks cruising if he’s comfortable with blasting again?

That’s all I was trying to get at