Cut Has Stalled — Keep Pushing to 15% or Start the Recomp?

[MasterBindo]

Background: Was a lifetime fatty, but started TRT (120mg) in January and have been steadily lifting 5 days a week and eating 1,800 calories a day. Started Reta in May and am currently up to 2.5mg.

I’m 5’10” and currently down to 170lb. Reta helped for sure when I was starting to slow down around 185lb. I look way better now and have more of an athletic look, but I’m dealing with some loose skin, the last remaining fat, and still somewhat of a skinny-fat look.

That said, my goal was to get lean enough to see some abs, then start experimenting with anabolics and build a bigger, lean physique. Something like 200lb at 15% BF.

Question: I’ve gone flat over the last month. My lifts went from stalled to now regressing, and my energy is low. I’m now contemplating starting a cycle, but that was supposed to be the finish line, and I know I haven’t earned it yet. But something has to give.

I’m considering raising calories a bit and bumping test to 300mg, but I don’t know if that would actually get me moving in the right direction toward 15% BF.

Looking for some guidance. I’ve seen how helpful you guys can be.

 

[Jburn]

At 1800 calories what’s your macros look like? What’s your bloodwork look like with that dose of test? You could bump it up but you’ll retain some water for a few weeks more than likely. The test will help with retaining muscle while in a calorie deficit. I cruise at 250 every week personally and have had success with eating at a large defect while my strength stays the same. With the scale staying the same how do you look in the mirror. A lot of people chase scale weight vs how they look in the mirror and don’t realize they’re shedding fat while putting on some muscle. If you started Reta not long ago a lot of people do report a stall. Reta also does love carbs. I’ve found bumping my carbs up made it work better. I don’t chase the appetite suppression on it but everything else and with those carbs it doesn’t make me feel like shit.

 

[MasterBindo]

At 1800 calories what’s your macros look like? What’s your bloodwork look like with that dose of test? You could bump it up but you’ll retain some water for a few weeks more than likely. The test will help with retaining muscle while in a calorie deficit. I cruise at 250 every week personally and have had success with eating at a large defect while my strength stays the same. With the scale staying the same how do you look in the mirror. A lot of people chase scale weight vs how they look in the mirror and don’t realize they’re shedding fat while putting on some muscle. If you started Reta not long ago a lot of people do report a stall. Reta also does love carbs. I’ve found bumping my carbs up made it work better. I don’t chase the appetite suppression on it but everything else and with those carbs it doesn’t make me feel like shit.

Hey Jburn,

200 g protein / 135 g carbs / 50 g fat is the target daily this whole year, I probably don’t hit the fat goal consistently. Thats harder for me to keep up with because it’s easy to overshoot.

I have been conservative on the Reta because the consensus seems to be go low and I get decent appetite suppression at 2.5mg.

Bloods attached.

 

[Jburn]

Hey Jburn,

200 g protein / 135 g carbs / 50 g fat is the target daily this whole year, I probably don’t hit the fat goal consistently. Thats harder for me to keep up with because it’s easy to overshoot.

I have been conservative on the Reta because the consensus seems to be go low and I get decent appetite suppression at 2.5mg.

Bloods attached.

I’d be a miserable prick on 135g of carbs. Try bumping them up and re evaluate how you feel. If you’re getting appetite suppression at your dose then it’s working. People tend to push the dose higher and higher on Reta chasing food noise due to not having discipline to not be a fatass. You’re responding well to 120mg of test weekly with that number of 1496.

 

[MasterBindo]

Ok, so you recommend continuing the cut but adding carbs/cals or to change macros?

 

[elit3keraed]

170g protein, 150-200 carbs and 50g fat.

Half your carbs divided amongst pre/intra and post workout. I was doing 25g of carb surge pre workout, 25g of carbs from karbolyn intra and 50g of carbs from cream of rice PWO at the end of my cut with the rest of the carbs sprinkled into my first and second “meal” (trained first thing in the morning so it was my meals after my post workout meal) .


Huge difference in strength and energy at that point.

Gotta try to figure out where your bf is now tho. Maybe throw a pic up

 

[elit3keraed]

Also is that your peak or trough number for test?

And with Reta I found you can handle more carbs without hurting your progress and even speeding it up depending on dosage. The enhanced insulin sensitivity really pushes the glycogen into muscle tissue

 

[Jburn]

I’d lower the protein to 1g/1lb of weigh and up the carbs. With carbs that low I’d assume you stay pretty flat

 

[MasterBindo]

Also is that your peak or trough number for test?

And with Reta I found you can handle more carbs without hurting your progress and even speeding it up depending on dosage. The enhanced insulin sensitivity really pushes the glycogen into muscle tissue

Pin 40mg M/W/F, this was Wednesday before shot.

 

[MasterBindo]

170g protein, 150-200 carbs and 50g fat.

Half your carbs divided amongst pre/intra and post workout. I was doing 25g of carb surge pre workout, 25g of carbs from karbolyn intra and 50g of carbs from cream of rice PWO at the end of my cut with the rest of the carbs sprinkled into my first and second “meal” (trained first thing in the morning so it was my meals after my post workout meal) .


Huge difference in strength and energy at that point.

Gotta try to figure out where your bf is now tho. Maybe throw a pic up

Max weight was 250lb, most recent push was 215->175 this year.

 

[elit3keraed]

Keep cutting. Change your macro spread. You’re getting crazy good response to test. My “trough” is 832 on 60mg 3x a week.

Worst case spend 2 weeks eating slightly above your current spread. Maybe 2000 calories or 2100. You’ll add some weight from extra glycogen but might be enough to get your body recovered.

 

[FearsomeCOR]

15% imo is kinda fluffy to even be STARTING a cut.

Don’t waste time trying to recomp. Lose the fat, then gain. Have you ever seen someone recomp from a 15% 200lbs to a shredded 200lbs?

 

[Meetketchup]

Changing timing of macros isn’t going to kickstart weight loss. Something is missing. Training, intensity, cardio, food choices, etc also you said you started the cut a year ago on those low calories. Next time drop them gradually along with slowly adding cardio so you have runway to make changes when you stall. You only drop calories enough to spark weight loss and manipulate as you go.

Keep cutting as you have plenty of adipose left drop. Starting a cycle would be getting on a hampster wheel.

Good luck man.

 

[snood]

Here’s a different perspective. I’m 173 and dexa said 8% which I do t believe. I think im closer to 10-12. Maybe higher. I’m afraid to bulk because I don’t think I’m lean enough yet. Not
Looking for advice (unless someone’s wants to give it).

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[19NorFan]

I would lean out more before starting a bulk cycle, you’re carrying too much fat in those pics.

Account that you will gain fat during the bulk. So unless you start the bulk lean, by the time you finish, you’ll just be fat and insulin resistant.

Fatigue and strength regression is just a part of dieting, especially since you’re just on trt. I would lean more on cardio, less on weights and just get absolutely shredded.

I did one aggressive cut like that over a year ago and now, even without GLPs I find it way easier to stay lean during bulks. It comes with seemingly permanent changes.

 

[FearsomeCOR]

Here’s a different perspective. I’m 173 and dexa said 8% which I do t believe. I think im closer to 10-12. Maybe higher. I’m afraid to bulk because I don’t think I’m lean enough yet. Not
Looking for advice (unless someone’s wants to give it).

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

End of the day man, you gotta do what you want. If you wanna get leaner before the push, then get leaner. I would fwiw but not everyone chases glute lines. Others are comfortable finishing bulks on the higher end and getting fluffier.

End of the day there’s technically no hard and fast “rules” you HAVE to follow.

 

[Nood]

Have to keep cutting, Recomp is a waste of time. Need to figure out why your weight loss has stalled first.

 

[MasterBindo]

Thank you all for the feedback. It seems like I need to focus on just getting the scale going down again.

 

[Theotherone55]

Changing timing of macros isn’t going to kickstart weight loss.

Someone had to say it...

This conversation honestly is hurting my brain.
You started dieting in May. It is August right now. You have pulled down to not crazyyy low calories, but you're saying you're justtt starting to go flat. Something is up. A real coach, which I'm assuming you should hire, would tell you that you have 2 options.

1. Keep pushing: You can accept that we need to go below 1,800 calories and keep pushing hard. Bodybuilders accept this. Some diets require little energy and no hunger. Some diets require an insane amount of starvation. This is just how it is. You have to do what it takes.
2. Diet Break: You need to accept that you need to take your foot off the gas, go back to maintenance calories, reset your metabolism for a brief period of time, and prepare to re-diet.

Those are the only two options there are. This is just how it is. Far too many guys think that you can just diet, never-ending, for months on end. I wish that's how it works. It does not. Many guys think that to get to their peak physique will require one diet. Again, that's not how it works. Many times, it takes two, maybe three or four real diets to get to the peak physique that you want to look like. You thought you could do it in one. You're finding out you cannot.

 

[HAAM]

Add carbs and figure out what your maintenance calories are at your new weight and composition. If there’s no rush, I’d sit at maintenance for 8-12 weeks. Let yourself reset, physically and mentally. Then you can scale back carbs for the next push.
I’ve taken this approach the last 3 years, primarily to let the loose skin adjust (it doesn’t snap back to nothing for me at 50+) -just my opinion, I’m no competitor or a coach. I’ve been at maintenance for the last 16 weeks, off Reta, weight stable. Look good, feel good.
Experiment a little, find what works for you.

 

[Knarfster]

At 1800 calories what’s your macros look like? What’s your bloodwork look like with that dose of test? You could bump it up but you’ll retain some water for a few weeks more than likely. The test will help with retaining muscle while in a calorie deficit. I cruise at 250 every week personally and have had success with eating at a large defect while my strength stays the same. With the scale staying the same how do you look in the mirror. A lot of people chase scale weight vs how they look in the mirror and don’t realize they’re shedding fat while putting on some muscle. If you started Reta not long ago a lot of people do report a stall. Reta also does love carbs. I’ve found bumping my carbs up made it work better. I don’t chase the appetite suppression on it but everything else and with those carbs it doesn’t make me feel like shit.

I quit Reta and went to Tirzepitide. It's better at food noise. I actually dropped to 1200 a day during a stall but 800 was protein. The Tirz made it possible. 61 yrs here. After getting to 14% on Reta, the Tirz has me down to about 9%. I am no longer at 1200 calories, about 2000, but my maintenance is close to 3000 with lifting 6 days and 30 miles of fasted zone 2 cardio a week.

 

[MasterBindo]

Someone had to say it...

This conversation honestly is hurting my brain.
You started dieting in May. It is August right now. You have pulled down to not crazyyy low calories, but you're saying you're justtt starting to go flat. Something is up. A real coach, which I'm assuming you should hire, would tell you that you have 2 options.

1. Keep pushing: You can accept that we need to go below 1,800 calories and keep pushing hard. Bodybuilders accept this. Some diets require little energy and no hunger. Some diets require an insane amount of starvation. This is just how it is. You have to do what it takes.
2. Diet Break: You need to accept that you need to take your foot off the gas, go back to maintenance calories, reset your metabolism for a brief period of time, and prepare to re-diet.

Those are the only two options there are. This is just how it is. Far too many guys think that you can just diet, never-ending, for months on end. I wish that's how it works. It does not. Many guys think that to get to their peak physique will require one diet. Again, that's not how it works. Many times, it takes two, maybe three or four real diets to get to the peak physique that you want to look like. You thought you could do it in one. You're finding out you cannot.

Thanks for the detailed feedback. I am down about 45lb on this current diet. Been doing 1800 cals a day since late December when I was around 215lb. This past month lifts stalled and started even losing reps. I had been steadily progressing in the gym all year which was really exciting and keeping me going.

The weight loss slowed down as well at 1800 so just felt like I was spinning my wheels. So I think you laid out my two options well for me.

 

[MasterBindo]

Add carbs and figure out what your maintenance calories are at your new weight and composition. If there’s no rush, I’d sit at maintenance for 8-12 weeks. Let yourself reset, physically and mentally. Then you can scale back carbs for the next push.
I’ve taken this approach the last 3 years, primarily to let the loose skin adjust (it doesn’t snap back to nothing for me at 50+) -just my opinion, I’m no competitor or a coach. I’ve been at maintenance for the last 16 weeks, off Reta, weight stable. Look good, feel good.
Experiment a little, find what works for you.

Seems like a sound approach. Thanks for the input.

 

[Slowsol]

Thanks for the detailed feedback. I am down about 45lb on this current diet. Been doing 1800 cals a day since late December when I was around 215lb. This past month lifts stalled and started even losing reps. I had been steadily progressing in the gym all year which was really exciting and keeping me going.

The weight loss slowed down as well at 1800 so just felt like I was spinning my wheels. So I think you laid out my two options well for me.

If you’re down 45 lbs but still eating the same 1800 calories that you were at 200+ lbs then you have your answer already. 1800 calories isn’t going to cut it anymore. There are 3 levers to pull in a cut. Less calories, more cardio, or more stimulants/fat burners. I was in about the same spot as you with about the same amount of calories recently and I decided that I wasn’t ready to go lower on calories, so I upped my cardio started the ECA stack twice a day, and progress started happening again. Remember, if getting lean were easy everyone would do it. Keep pushing

 

[Theotherone55]

Thanks for the detailed feedback. I am down about 45lb on this current diet. Been doing 1800 cals a day since late December when I was around 215lb. This past month lifts stalled and started even losing reps. I had been steadily progressing in the gym all year which was really exciting and keeping me going.

The weight loss slowed down as well at 1800 so just felt like I was spinning my wheels. So I think you laid out my two options well for me.

Well, I think you answered your own question. You're 45 lbs. down on a diet. You've been doing 1,800 calories for a ton of months, and 1,800 is going to stop working. That's fairly logical.

Also, weights are never going to progress over the long course of a diet. If they are, you're not dieting hard enough. Bodybuilders don't get stronger during prep. Eventually, it's just maintenance and eventually pulling back volume a bit.
This isn't a conundrum that makes no sense. You've been dieting for a long period of time on the same calories. Calories need to come down more, or energy expenditure needs to come up (probably a bit of both) or you take a diet break. Those are the only options.

 

[MasterBindo]

Well, I think you answered your own question. You're 45 lbs. down on a diet. You've been doing 1,800 calories for a ton of months, and 1,800 is going to stop working. That's fairly logical.

Also, weights are never going to progress over the long course of a diet. If they are, you're not dieting hard enough. Bodybuilders don't get stronger during prep. Eventually, it's just maintenance and eventually pulling back volume a bit.
This isn't a conundrum that makes no sense. You've been dieting for a long period of time on the same calories. Calories need to come down more, or energy expenditure needs to come up (probably a bit of both) or you take a diet break. Those are the only options.

This is exactly what I needed to hear. Will follow this advice. My question has been answered.

 

[balin]

Being flat on a diet is normal.
Having low energy on a diet is normal.
You will likely grow better in the long run if you keep dieting down.
In general when my weight loss stalls i usually up the output or lower the calories.