1st cycle

[Extrax]

Hello Everyone,

I am new to the forums and very glad I found you guys. Mostly due to the site sponsors and everyone here vouching for them. Makes me feel a bit more confident I am getting legit stuff. I have still not gone about getting anything since I am a bit weary with that whole process. Any info would be appreciated.

So I will try to give as much info as possible. If I miss something, feel free to let me know.

Age 33
Weight 139
Height 5’6
BF 12-15% (I can post a pic if this helps. If this is within forum rules.)
Length training is about 10 years. Even though it has been 10 years, I feel like I didn’t get dialed in with sleep, diet, and training until these last 3 years. Last 2-3 years I have made the majority of progress to where I am today.

I have gone through about 3 bulking/ cutting cycles recently to get to where I am. I eat pretty clean all year round. Weigh everything I eat. Everyone thinks Im crazy because I eat the same all the time. I do mix things up to try and get nutritious food. I try to eat whole foods as much as possible. I do eat cereal (special k strawberry, no milk) for a pre workout meal since it seems to be easier on my stomach. I will probably be phasing this out and try going with rice or another whole food since I think I have figured out my stomach issue(possibly low gastric acid. Just started taking betaine hcl with food to help)
Calories:
Maint: 2200-2300
Bulking: 2600-2800
Cutting: 1800 down to 1600 at times

Workout split:
Legs (anterior focused)
Push
Pull
Legs (posterior focused)
Arms
Rest

I don’t always work out on consecutive days due to my work schedule, but I am pretty consistent.
I have started to do some more cardio recently mostly for overall health. 1- 2/ week 20-30 min moderate intensity cardio

I prioritize sleep so I don’t party or stay up late. I drink maybe 1 every couple months, and even then its only like 2-3 drinks. I don’t smoke.

I have done labs in the past and seem to have good test #s. I just did an extensive set of labs in prep to run this cycle. I got most of the suggested labs on the sticky I found somewhere on this forum except the GGT for liver function test. I know I've had this in the past and have not had an issue. I can post the new labs on here once I get the results. Last set was 711ng/dl total, 139pg/ml free, e2 29pg/ml. (These numbers are not completely natural. I do take Tongkat Ali and beta ecdysterone. I am not sure how much of an impact either of these supps have on my test. I had never gotten tested before taking these. I will say that I felt much better after I started to take these.)

So I would like to start my first cycle. I am currently at maintenance calories, possibly slightly under. If you guys think I should get leaner before starting the cycle I will take that advice.

For the 1st cycle I was thinking of just doing Test. I am not sure of the dosage yet. I would like to use the least effective amount possible so that I do not have to use an ai (I will be buying one just in case). So I was thinking of starting off with about 150mg/week and going up from there depending on how I react. The part that I am the most concerned with is the PCT. I do not want to mess this up. I plan on coming off completely, and possibly doing another cycle if everything goes well maybe sometime later in the year. I also read on a sticky I found here the best length to have a better chance of getting back to the same test #s as before the cycle would be about 10-12 weeks. (I do understand not everyone is the same, and it is not guaranteed, but I want to put myself in the best position possible for this.
Cycle: 10 weeks
Dose: 150mg/ week, titrate up. 50mg EOD


PCT:
So this is were I need the most help. I did read the PCT sticky and find it to be helpful, but I also feel like it is a bit of a cookie cutter approach (kind of like when guys say just run 500mg for your first cycle). I am curious to know if anyone has run lower Nova. Also I have read to use clomid, but ive also heard it has pretty harsh side effects. Not sure if this is due to the dose or just the compound in general.
I have also read some guys running HCG through out their cycle to prevent atrophy, but then I read in the PCT thread that you could possibly cause the opposite desired effect if you desensitize HPTA by using the HCG. Would it be better to use HCG throughout the cycle in smaller doses so this doesn’t happen or just use it at the end during PCT.
Is it possible to get single use HCG? I know that usually it is made some what in bulk and needs to be refrigerated, but I would like to avoid this if possible. Also, I have read that because it is reconstituted in bulk and used over a period of time, there can be some degradation and can lead to some under dosing towards the end of the vial.


As far as the syringes/ needles to use, I would like to minimize scar tissue. The consensus seems to be to go the IM route as opposed to Subq. What would be a good syringe/needle to go with. Ive read that an insulin syringe with around a 27G 1 inch should be decent enough? Also any help with locating the ventro glute would be helpful. I've watch a couple of videos on YT and done some ready, but any other helpful tips would be nice.

Lastly, I would like to get your thoughts on the diet side of things throughout this time. I will be eating in a surplus to try and maximize the benefits. I was thinking that I would continue to eat in a surplus and train relatively intense after the cycle (during PCT and after). I am not sure if you think this is a good idea? My last bulk periods were about 4 months in length.

Thanks for taking the time to read through this.

 

[Jbswole40]

Very thorough, sounds like you have a plan,and know a few things about training & diet...
1st things 1st
You ever had bloods pulled to see where u are at..?
2nd I don't feel comfortable offer advice to 1st timers..just being honest.
Definitely do your homework on everything, alot of great threads and info on here..

 

[Jbswole40]

Sorry I must have missed that part about your labs..
1st cycle test e or c would be best ..
Start low ,have ai.with your experience training & eating right you should do very well at a low dose I wouldn't go over 300 on 1st cycle imo.

 

[Thresher]

My first couple cycles I did 500mg test E per week 1ml Monday, 1ml Thursday
Order all your stuff before starting. At 500mg/wk, one bottle should last you 5 weeks (if dosed at 250mg/mL) so 2-3 bottles are needed for your typical 9-12 week cycle. Make sure you have the nolva/clomid before starting. I like HcG it’s very effective at helping you bounce back. Best recovery I had was using HcG (as well as nolva/clomid of course)
Tons of info on this, you’ll generally find something along these lines
500mg/wk for 9-12 weeks
Begin clomid/nolva 10-12 days after last dose of Enanthate/Cypionate
If using HcG dose daily for those 10 days between final dose of test and first dose of SERM.
Clomid 50/50/25/25
Nolva: 40/40/20/20

That’s your extremely basic cycle baseline to start from. Do your research, don’t just listen to one guy online telling of something. Read read read.

I was about your size when I did my first cycle, ~135lbs, similar BF. Flat Bench 1RM of 205 I think. At the end I was 165lbs and 1RM 275, shredded and smashing my girl 5+ times a day

 

[Draig]

Great write up, keep us posted on the progress!



List Available Here

 

[Meetketchup]

I agree w/ JB Swole above. IMO, There is no need to go over 300mg for a first cycle. I would even personally start at 250mg. You "should" make VERY good gains on that and leave plenty of room for future cycles. The higher you start with the more you'll have to use in future cycles, which is no bueno. Get blood work done regularly and see what every compound does to YOUR body.

Again, don't take my or anyone's word for it. Listen and research, then YOU decide.

 

[Wiseguy]

300MG of TC M-Th for 12 weeks followed by PCT.

 

[CompoundLifts31]

I am not arguing with anyone here. Let's just discuss. Can someone elaborate more on why people are suggesting 250mgs as a cycle?

What if their natural T levels are like 800ng/dL? Then, they start doing 250mgs pw and come back at 1250-1500 ( I do understand that there will be people who take the same amount and come back 2000+) Would that really be productive or counterproductive in the long run? Are we now at a point where we need to have members pull bloods before suggesting a cycle dose?

Im just thinking out loud here and trying to start a discussion.

Sent from my LM-K500 using Tapatalk

 

[Jbswole40]

I am not arguing with anyone here. Let's just discuss. Can someone elaborate more on why people are suggesting 250mgs as a cycle?

What if their natural T levels are like 800ng/dL? Then, they start doing 250mgs pw and come back at 1250-1500 ( I do understand that there will be people who take the same amount and come back 2000+) Would that really be productive or counterproductive in the long run? Are we now at a point where we need to have members pull bloods before suggesting a cycle dose?

Im just thinking out loud here and trying to start a discussion.

Sent from my LM-K500 using Tapatalk

I hear you @CompoundLifts31 ,,bro has a structure diet and training 10yrs..so why just jump into 500 a week,he may eventually work up to that on his 1st cycle if can handle it and no sides..I'm not arguing either just my suggestion start low work up..the guy wants to start at 150 a week..
Op like I said do you homework read eventually u will learn how u handle things..
And again I should stay out of 1st cycle questions not my thing..& I don't know shit about pct.lol..
Good luck bro.

 

[Wiseguy]

I am not arguing with anyone here. Let's just discuss. Can someone elaborate more on why people are suggesting 250mgs as a cycle?

What if their natural T levels are like 800ng/dL? Then, they start doing 250mgs pw and come back at 1250-1500 ( I do understand that there will be people who take the same amount and come back 2000+) Would that really be productive or counterproductive in the long run? Are we now at a point where we need to have members pull bloods before suggesting a cycle dose?

Im just thinking out loud here and trying to start a discussion.

Sent from my LM-K500 using Tapatalk

My friend, I am a true believer when it comes to low dosage cycles. Ive been on gear over three decades and have won shows after shows and still compete regularly. Currently I am on a bulk cycle at 300mg of test per week. You don;t have to do enormous amount of gear to produce results. Diet, training, cardio play the significant part and gear is just the added push. I know guys who are doing 1000 mg of test per week and look like crap. Now when it comes to a first cycle, what is the rush? Take your time. See how you feel and how your body reacts. Some people, like me are going to be perfectly happy at 300mg per week of test with no sides and some wont, but why start on higher dosage first.
Also, at 58 years old my cholestrol is 140, BP is 106.65 and I take zero pills for any medical conditions. I contribute that to low dosing.

Anyway, just my opinion, but at the end of the day we all suggest what we think is the right way to go and the person looking for advise needs to make up his own mind. No right or wrong just personal preference.

Good topic to discuss. Thanks brother.

 

[Vision]

I am not arguing with anyone here. Let's just discuss. Can someone elaborate more on why people are suggesting 250mgs as a cycle?

What if their natural T levels are like 800ng/dL? Then, they start doing 250mgs pw and come back at 1250-1500 ( I do understand that there will be people who take the same amount and come back 2000+) Would that really be productive or counterproductive in the long run? Are we now at a point where we need to have members pull bloods before suggesting a cycle dose?

Im just thinking out loud here and trying to start a discussion.

Sent from my LM-K500 using Tapatalk

These are very fair points, and I agree that 250 is a bit low. Heck at 200mg anymore I hardly clear the mid/high 700's, I'm a low responder to test.
300mg would be min I think if it was test Prop for a first cycle or first few, 300-500mg is not entirely reckless IMO with longer esters.
Pulling bloods to have some real life virgin bloods before taking the plunge is something I wish I could have done and now is his chance to get some cliff notes, providing a summery and explanation with real life "history" (many of us wish to have this opportunity over again).. Pre first cycle bloods is a GREAT INVESTMENT, its notes that may come in handy years down the road..
seeing where he sits before, and where he ends up during and even post IMO should be the norm with first AAS approaches and with as many cycles and blasts that someone can do within reason (always pulling bloods is not practical in real life applications each and every single cycle/blast, but getting as many as we can should be a goal)..

Also, I do have a long time friend that is on TRT and has been since his 20s like myself, he has pulled 1100's and near 1200's on just 125mg test cyp, many times.

with that said, 250 in theory "could and should" be more than enough, but its impossible to know for sure before hand. 300-400mg would be a great STARTING point, and from there understanding what to look for with sides and getting an idea on responses and sensitivities, adjustments with adding or subtracting and so on.

Great discussion BTW..

 

[CompoundLifts31]

I hear you @CompoundLifts31 ,,bro has a structure diet and training 10yrs..so why just jump into 500 a week,he may eventually work up to that on his 1st cycle if can handle it and no sides..I'm not arguing either just my suggestion start low work up..the guy wants to start at 150 a week..
Op like I said do you homework read eventually u will learn how u handle things..
And again I should stay out of 1st cycle questions not my thing..& I don't know shit about pct.lol..
Good luck bro.

You're funny as hell bro...

Sent from my LM-K500 using Tapatalk

 

[CompoundLifts31]

My friend, I am a true believer when it comes to low dosage cycles. Ive been on gear over three decades and have won shows after shows and still compete regularly. Currently I am on a bulk cycle at 300mg of test per week. You don;t have to do enormous amount of gear to produce results. Diet, training, cardio play the significant part and gear is just the added push. I know guys who are doing 1000 mg of test per week and look like crap. Now when it comes to a first cycle, what is the rush? Take your time. See how you feel and how your body reacts. Some people, like me are going to be perfectly happy at 300mg per week of test with no sides and some wont, but why start on higher dosage first.
Also, at 58 years old my cholestrol is 140, BP is 106.65 and I take zero pills for any medical conditions. I contribute that to low dosing.

Anyway, just my opinion, but at the end of the day we all suggest what we think is the right way to go and the person looking for advise needs to make up his own mind. No right or wrong just personal preference.

Good topic to discuss. Thanks brother.

That makes sense.

Less is more is a valid point. Well put.




Sent from my LM-K500 using Tapatalk

 

[Trenderhearted]

My friend, I am a true believer when it comes to low dosage cycles. Ive been on gear over three decades and have won shows after shows and still compete regularly. Currently I am on a bulk cycle at 300mg of test per week. You don;t have to do enormous amount of gear to produce results. Diet, training, cardio play the significant part and gear is just the added push. I know guys who are doing 1000 mg of test per week and look like crap. Now when it comes to a first cycle, what is the rush? Take your time. See how you feel and how your body reacts. Some people, like me are going to be perfectly happy at 300mg per week of test with no sides and some wont, but why start on higher dosage first.
Also, at 58 years old my cholestrol is 140, BP is 106.65 and I take zero pills for any medical conditions. I contribute that to low dosing.

Anyway, just my opinion, but at the end of the day we all suggest what we think is the right way to go and the person looking for advise needs to make up his own mind. No right or wrong just personal preference.

Good topic to discuss. Thanks brother.

You cant go wrong with that advice.

 

[Extrax]

I appreciate all the feedback, advice, and healthy discussion. I am currently still doing research and working on obtaining all stuff needed for the cycle.
I did settle on running HCG through out the cycle. Can anyone provide any feedback/ experience / tips?
I will be doing something like 200iu 3x / week depending on how it affects E2.
I still haven't received my lab results. I assuming its due to the holiday weekend.
Any suggestions on a fast turn around Lab for future test? I got my current labs through quest diagnostics. I think their E2 test is only run 2x a week and this might also factor in to the wait time. I ordered the ultra sensitive estradiol test.

 

[Extrax]

Alright guys. I just got my labs back. I got some weird results. I felt pretty good around the time I took these labs.

 

[bigcrunk]

Alright guys. I just got my labs back. I got some weird results. I felt pretty good around the time I took these labs.

Did you take SARMS? Your T and free is totally tanked

 

[Extrax]

No SARMs. I normally finish eating around 5 PM and and will eat when I wake up. I've done this for years and have never had it need with my results.
Only thing out of the norm was I had just got back from a trip. I drank alcohol while on vacation, which I normally dont do. I didn't get drunk, but had about 2-3 drinks a couple days in a row. Possible that it was cause by a lot of sex? More than I'm used to? Sounds like a dumb question but these are the only things that were out of the norm for me. Labs were taken about a week after I got back from my trip so plenty of time to rest, even though the trip was intended for rest. I still at pretty clean. No junk food.
I was a bit shocked because I actually feel better than before I went on the trip.

 

[bigcrunk]

A little drinking and a lot of boinking isn't going to crash your T to that of a woman. Something else is going on

 

[bigcrunk]

Maybe get retested.

 

[bigcrunk]

Your best bet is talking with a doctor about your results, they are pretty far out of reference range. Friend had a pituitary tumor that resulted in super low T levels, he had it removed and returned to normal. Don't wait to figure it out.

 

[Extrax]

Well that's not good. I will get retested and go from there. I appreciate the info on the possible issue.

 

[zionoir626]

I've posted threads after thread..
Explaining why.....
Use the search bar..
1st cycle...
If you don't understand WHY...before you start you're not ready..
At 139lbs..your problem is in the kitchen..
After your first 2 cycles,these question you should have answers to these questions:
1..what's my Test levels at 500...??
2..do I require an AI at 500mgs/wk
3..at what Test levels do I need to add an AI..
4..what AI works best for me????
5..what markers are raised at 500mgs??
6..knowing how to read and understand lab results..
There are solid reasons for using Test at 500mgs cycle 1...700mgs cycle 2...
If you don't understand WHY...
Do Not Start..

Setting a basic foundation is paramount for successfully future cycles..
Sadly I'll bet 50% of members here can't answer those simple questions..
This is WHY the Forum is chalked full of estrogen issues and guys with sky high markers..or Serious ER wake-up call..

Either learn now or down the road..minus $$..
Wasted on So-so result cycles..

Yes..many respond well to a lower than 500mgs a/wk...but Absolutely, everyone wants to speed past to 3 and 4 ..or 5 compounds..
Without first knowing how Test at different levels effects you..

You need to research another month or 2..
And get a coach FIRST...
A coach will save you time, money and hopefully tell you NOT to start until you know something about what you're getting into..
Hard advice ,take it or leave it..
Z...

 

[220]

Your SHBG is really high causing your free T to be really low. Are you taking any prescription medications? You may have mentioned it above, but do you eat a low carb diet?

 

[Draig]

I've posted threads after thread..
Explaining why.....
Use the search bar..
1st cycle...
If you don't understand WHY...before you start you're not ready..
At 139lbs..your problem is in the kitchen..
After your first 2 cycles,these question you should have answers to these questions:
1..what's my Test levels at 500...??
2..do I require an AI at 500mgs/wk
3..at what Test levels do I need to add an AI..
4..what AI works best for me????
5..what markers are raised at 500mgs??
6..knowing how to read and understand lab results..
There are solid reasons for using Test at 500mgs cycle 1...700mgs cycle 2...
If you don't understand WHY...
Do Not Start..

Setting a basic foundation is paramount for successfully future cycles..
Sadly I'll bet 50% of members here can't answer those simple questions..
This is WHY the Forum is chalked full of estrogen issues and guys with sky high markers..or Serious ER wake-up call..

Either learn now or down the road..minus $$..
Wasted on So-so result cycles..

Yes..many respond well to a lower than 500mgs a/wk...but Absolutely, everyone wants to speed past to 3 and 4 ..or 5 compounds..
Without first knowing how Test at different levels effects you..

You need to research another month or 2..
And get a coach FIRST...
A coach will save you time, money and hopefully tell you NOT to start until you know something about what you're getting into..
Hard advice ,take it or leave it..
Z...

Listen to Z.



List Available Here

 

[Astro95]

I've posted threads after thread..
Explaining why.....
Use the search bar..
1st cycle...
If you don't understand WHY...before you start you're not ready..
At 139lbs..your problem is in the kitchen..
After your first 2 cycles,these question you should have answers to these questions:
1..what's my Test levels at 500...??
2..do I require an AI at 500mgs/wk
3..at what Test levels do I need to add an AI..
4..what AI works best for me????
5..what markers are raised at 500mgs??
6..knowing how to read and understand lab results..
There are solid reasons for using Test at 500mgs cycle 1...700mgs cycle 2...
If you don't understand WHY...
Do Not Start..

Setting a basic foundation is paramount for successfully future cycles..
Sadly I'll bet 50% of members here can't answer those simple questions..
This is WHY the Forum is chalked full of estrogen issues and guys with sky high markers..or Serious ER wake-up call..

Either learn now or down the road..minus $$..
Wasted on So-so result cycles..

Yes..many respond well to a lower than 500mgs a/wk...but Absolutely, everyone wants to speed past to 3 and 4 ..or 5 compounds..
Without first knowing how Test at different levels effects you..

You need to research another month or 2..
And get a coach FIRST...
A coach will save you time, money and hopefully tell you NOT to start until you know something about what you're getting into..
Hard advice ,take it or leave it..
Z...

I thought the same looking at his weight regarding a first cycle, but looking at his labs his T is in the gutter. I smell something fishy tho anyways, yes some low test should do wonders.

 

[Extrax]

Yea, not sure why. No prescribed medications. Normal supplements for test support and well being (Zinc, Mag, Boron, Selenium, Vit D & E, tryptophan, on and off of ashwagandha, tongkat ali ). Diet is usually about 45%carbs 30% Fats 30% Proteins

Your SHBG is really high causing your free T to be really low. Are you taking any prescription medications? You may have mentioned it above, but do you eat a low carb diet?

T is usually in the 700-800s in previous labs I've done these past 2 years. Have not touched any anabolics or sarms. Ive only used test boosters like tongkat ali and ecdysterone. I was pretty surprised to see these results, especially since I feel better than when I got my lab results with 700-800.

I thought the same looking at his weight regarding a first cycle, but looking at his labs his T is in the gutter. I smell something fishy tho anyways, yes some low test should do wonders.

A lot of good info here. You are correct about the kitchen. I've always had trouble putting on weight. I do count calories year round. The last bulk I got up to 149lbs. I know it is not a lot higher than where I am at now, but before I started that bulk I was at 132lb and the around the same body fat I am now so I roughly gained 6-7 lbs of muscle during that 4-5 month bulk. I was struggling to get in the 2800-2900 calories. I was going to bed with a full stomach and not being able to sleep right. At that point I decided to start cutting.

I've posted threads after thread..
Explaining why.....
Use the search bar..
1st cycle...

Will be getting blood drawn this coming Monday. In the meantime I will keep everything else the same. Will continue to do more research in the meantime.
Thanks for all the feedback guys.

 

[zionoir626]

You'll find the one's with the Greatest success in gaining size..Have their shit together in the kitchen..
Buy some books..read..research..repeat..
You can lift 10 hrs a day..8 days a wk..And never gain a pound without proper Fuel..and Nutrition..
I'm eating cleaner than ever and at nearly 57..
People think I'm 40 or 45...Nice..
Z...

 

[Extrax]

You'll find the one's with the Greatest success in gaining size..Have their shit together in the kitchen..
Buy some books..read..research..repeat..
You can lift 10 hrs a day..8 days a wk..And never gain a pound without proper Fuel..and Nutrition..
I'm eating cleaner than ever and at nearly 57..
People think I'm 40 or 45...Nice..
Z...

Totally agree. I worked out for about 7 years and never made progress. Wasn't until I got my diet in check and tracked my training, prioritized sleep that I made the progress to where I am now. It's not much but I feel like I made a huge amount of progress in the last 2-3 years.

 

[Extrax]

These are the results I was expecting the last test. I'm convinced my samples got mixed up with another patient. I don't recall the nurse having me check if my name was correct on the vials.
These are actually the best results I've had and I feel like they are representative of the way that I feel at the moment. In order from top to bottom. Free test, total test, bioavailable test.