Going to failure

[Soscajer]

I can't find a direct answer to this, just opinions..

So I have been going to failure on almost all of my exercises and been told its bad so i've been doing a bit of research however most things I find are opinions without any proof or science behind it.

I'll use bench press as an example of my recent workout so you have an Idea of what I have been doing (not for longer that 2 weeks btw). My 1 rep max is 100kg. 5 sets, first set 50kg about 12 reps (not failure). Set 2 - 60kg, 10-12 reps (failure). Set 3 - 70kg 6 reps (failure), set 4 - 70kg 4 reps (failure) drop down to 50kg go to failure again. set 5 65kg 4 reps (failure) drop set to 50kg (failure).

From what i've read this is simultaneously a good work out as its intense but a horrible workout where strength gain will stop soon and bad for my cns.

I've not been doing this for too long so I can't just go from results.

 

[Phill]

I'm not sure if you know what it really means to fail, but you have to train harder and harder than that.
if your max 1 rep is 100kg, put 80-85kg on the bar and do 5 sets of 10 reps
with 50 kg it's a warmup you can't even consider it in the sets count

 

[Rot-Iron66]

Sorry, thought this was another Pervy Joe thread...

 

[Milford King]

I wouldnt train to failure on every exercise. Depending on your split, I’d take one compound movement per large muscle group and go to failure on that… use the other movements to polish off the workout.

honestly, there is so many ways to train its all about trial and error. I’d also say that your goals are important in order to pick a regiment that would give you the best results.

but I wouldn’t train to failure on every movement and I’d also listen to my body and not train to failure every time I’m in the gym.

 

[220]

Although I don’t always agree with him, Mike Israetel has several videos on this exact topic.

 

[Capthowdy87]

When I train to failure I save it for my big lifts . The compound movements. I try to push as hard as I possibly can on those movements going as heavy as I can but also doing drop sets or pause reps at the end when I strip the weight . To me heavy is when your only getting a few reps out . If your still banging 10-15 reps with a weight then it’s not that heavy for you . When I do isolation stuff I’ll focus more on mind muscle connection and try and get that squeeze .

 

[sityslicker1]

I always try to go to true failure for my working sets. If your concerned about frying your CNS cut down on the number of sets. This why DC training is so effective. Preform minimal sets with 110% effort and get out and recover.

 

[Soscajer]

thanks for advices

 

[Bft84]

Mike Isratel misrepresents studies to sell his shit. Who has Mike actually had worked with? He couldn’t even use his “evidence based” approach on himself properly. He’s a salesman.
I go to failure on every working set. I always have. I go to a gym where a lot of competitors train. They’re pushing heavy ass weight and every set is failure and beyond failure. Rir is utter bullshit for most people. I’ve had sets where it felt like I only had 2 more reps left or maybe a hard one then I proceeded to push out 5-10 more reps, those were the ones that counted. Even meadows who’s programs look like high volume really has you doing a bunch of sets so you’re really warmed up to push 3-4 really hard failure and beyond sets. Reps in the tank is gains on the table. Never leave reps in the tank. If you’re not recovering then pull back volume. Volume is not and never was the primary driver of growth. Effort(failure sets) and mechanical tension (load) is. Look at what the biggest guys do. Look at who they coach. Jordan Peters, Dante Trudel,Dusty Hanshaw, even Trevor Smith(RiP) all produced and produce some very big guys very quickly.
the worst thing to happen to guys trying to grow is the “evidence based community”

 

[Bft84]

I wouldnt train to failure on every exercise. Depending on your split, I’d take one compound movement per large muscle group and go to failure on that… use the other movements to polish off the workout.

honestly, there is so many ways to train its all about trial and error. I’d also say that your goals are important in order to pick a regiment that would give you the best results.

but I wouldn’t train to failure on every movement and I’d also listen to my body and not train to failure every time I’m in the gym.

Why wouldn’t you train to failure on every movement? Why do you need so many sets or movements that you can’t go to failure on all of them?

 

[Augustine5I]

Why wouldn’t you train to failure on every movement? Why do you need so many sets or movements that you can’t go to failure on all of them?

Well, for one… risk of injury goes way the fuck up.

That’s the risk. Reward? That’s for you to say.

 

[Bft84]

Well, for one… risk of injury goes way the fuck up.

That’s the risk. Reward? That’s for you to say.

Does it? Not if you use proper form. I’m not talking a 1-3 rep max.

 

[Jaxz]

For me it makes my next work go down some . So I guess if u want to work out more days I'd say leave some in tbe tank . That's just how it affects me .

 

[Augustine5I]

For me it makes my next work go down some . So I guess if u want to work out more days I'd say leave some in tbe tank . That's just how it affects me .

That’s the stress it’s putting not just on you muscles, but also your nervous system.

 

[Augustine5I]

Does it? Not if you use proper form. I’m not talking a 1-3 rep max.

Injuries don’t just come from improper form.

In fact, as your muscles are fatiguing (especially under heavy loads) the risks go up.

You are only as strong as your weakest link.

Tons of rotator cuff tears that way. The weaker smaller supraspinatus or infraspinatus gives way as you overload the shoulder movements to build larger deltoids. Especially as they are fatigued.

Same with lower back injuries.

The “weak link” will be exposed.

 

[Bft84]

Injuries don’t just come from improper form.

In fact, as your muscles are fatiguing (especially under heavy loads) the risks go up.

You are only as strong as your weakest link.

Tons of rotator cuff tears that way. The weaker smaller supraspinatus or infraspinatus gives way as you overload the shoulder movements to build larger deltoids. Especially as they are fatigued.

Same with lower back injuries.

The “weak link” will be exposed.

because you’re doing it wrong. Guys train to failure all the time and for decades without fucking themselves up. Life is not without risks. I’ve known more guys who got injured from overuse with high volume than low volume to failure workouts. You’re arguing an opinion with a lack of experience or understanding. Where are you pulling this information from? Do you have data to back it up? No. You’re creating a “fact” in your head based off of a preconceived notion based on nothing but what you think will happen.

 

[Bft84]

That’s the stress it’s putting not just on you muscles, but also your nervous system.

seriously? You think 3-4 working failure sets per body part is more stressful than a high volume workout? You manage fatigue and recovery by intelligent programming. Just stop. You’re showing how much you don’t understand the more you try to show how much you know. How fragile is our cns? Nobody should do DC training or fortitude training because theyll get injured and …… fry their cns? You’re not a beacon of knowledge you’re wrong and sound uneducated but n the subject the more you post about it. It’s nothing more than nonsense fear mongering.

 

[Bft84]

That’s the stress it’s putting not just on you muscles, but also your nervous system.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9134916/
in fact as far the cns fatigue boogeyman low intensity high duration exercise causes more fatigue than high intensity low volume training. Stop pulling stuff out of your ass.

 

[Montego]

I've used, and still use "reps in reserve" for myself and clients. Not all of them but, many.

It's a useful tool if your program is set up to make the correct use of it. It just leads back to overall programming, clients mindset, and exercise selection.

It's especially useful if you're using low volume and higher frequency. To take every real working set to complete failure in that type of program is fine, and yeah it works but, I've seen in myself that leaving only a rep or two in the tank on two or three sets each session leads to much longer periods on time I can blast training without NEEDING a break.

That goes back to the whole higher frequency training principle in itself since you are still training more frequently for more weeks.

I think most people don't know what true failure is and leave reps in reserve without knowing it anyways. I can't think of a single client I've ever had who sent me their first training video and I didn't say "you had more". It's interesting to watch someone you told to stop one rep short of failure perform that action..... It's almost always 3-10 short. Then again, you tell someone go to failure, especially if they train alone, it's always 2+ reps in reserve.

I think that just like most things we do, it can be useful if it's used correctly.

The issue with injury. This goes all kids of directions. As someone pointed out, all those big guys that were mentioned training to complete failure have had injuries, yes they have but, this is a result of the human body first and foremost. And, let me clarify, I'm not approaching this topic talking about the random Pec tear by some guy doing a heavy bench, let's talk about highly seasoned bodybuilders.

The injury issue is more of a result of progressive overload rather then failure or even form in these individuals. You're not supposed to hip press 15 plates a side..... Even after years of tendon and muscle adaptation, your Adductor will say fuck you when it's had enough. That's why in Jordan's case it tore on the unrack, not failure.

So, does NOT training to failure reduce the risk of injury? Sure, just like not training at all does.

So, does NOT training to failure reduce the risk of an injury? NO, Not if you're transcending what your body is capable of and you're strong as fuck.

 

[Augustine5I]

seriously? You think 3-4 working failure sets per body part is more stressful than a high volume workout? You manage fatigue and recovery by intelligent programming. Just stop. You’re showing how much you don’t understand the more you try to show how much you know. How fragile is our cns? Nobody should do DC training or fortitude training because theyll get injured and …… fry their cns? You’re not a beacon of knowledge you’re wrong and sound uneducated but n the subject the more you post about it. It’s nothing more than nonsense fear mongering.

I am a licensed professional for 20 years. Working with these injuries dickhead.

Only one that knows dick is you.

Where do you work? What degree do you have? What makes you so knowledgeable twat?!?

I’ll wait.

 

[Augustine5I]

I've used, and still use "reps in reserve" for myself and clients. Not all of them but, many.

It's a useful tool if your program is set up to make the correct use of it. It just leads back to overall programming, clients mindset, and exercise selection.

It's especially useful if you're using low volume and higher frequency. To take every real working set to complete failure in that type of program is fine, and yeah it works but, I've seen in myself that leaving only a rep or two in the tank on two or three sets each session leads to much longer periods on time I can blast training without NEEDING a break.

That goes back to the whole higher frequency training principle in itself since you are still training more frequently for more weeks.

I think most people don't know what true failure is and leave reps in reserve without knowing it anyways. I can't think of a single client I've ever had who sent me their first training video and I didn't say "you had more". It's interesting to watch someone you told to stop one rep short of failure perform that action..... It's almost always 3-10 short. Then again, you tell someone go to failure, especially if they train alone, it's always 2+ reps in reserve.

I think that just like most things we do, it can be useful if it's used correctly.

The issue with injury. This goes all kids of directions. As someone pointed out, all those big guys that were mentioned training to complete failure have had injuries, yes they have but, this is a result of the human body first and foremost. And, let me clarify, I'm not approaching this topic talking about the random Pec tear by some guy doing a heavy bench, let's talk about highly seasoned bodybuilders.

The injury issue is more of a result of progressive overload rather then failure or even form in these individuals. You're not supposed to hip press 15 plates a side..... Even after years of tendon and muscle adaptation, your Adductor will say fuck you when it's had enough. That's why in Jordan's case it tore on the unrack, not failure.

So, does NOT training to failure reduce the risk of injury? Sure, just like not training at all does.

So, does NOT training to failure reduce the risk of an injury? NO, Not if you're transcending what your body is capable of and you're strong as fuck.

There may be know way of knowing if the progressive overload will cause failure until it happens.

Can’t prevent it, even if you’re “strong as fuck.”

I am not saying don’t train hard, but going to the well to many times and that twat will get hurt. Just a matter of time.

Just examine the terminology “failure” for example. If a person takes it to the point that the muscle or tendon fails????

That’s a recipe for disaster in my book.

And reckless to promote quite frankly.

 

[Bft84]

I am a licensed professional for 20 years. Working with these injuries dickhead.

Only one that knows dick is you.

Where do you work? What degree do you have? What makes you so knowledgeable twat?!?

I’ll wait.

Ive seen what your knowledge has built you old fuck. I study this shit. I’ve been doing it for 19 years. I’ve helped tons of people and continue to do so. Your education is shit you proved that with every wrong myth you posted. Go duck yourself and stop spreading nonsense. I gave you a study that showed that you’re wrong. Not all “experts” are experts and you’re no exception. Look at me and look at you. Who knows more? Who has actually applied it? I’ve argued with you over so much nonsense you posted on here. You’re almost always wrong. Nice appeal to authority. How many people here have messaged you saying your posts have helped them? How many people here and other places have messaged you to help them at all? Application, experience and knowledge over any of your degrees. You work with people already fucked up you have the worst group to even look at you for anything.

 

[Augustine5I]

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9134916/
in fact as far the cns fatigue boogeyman low intensity high duration exercise causes more fatigue than high intensity low volume training. Stop pulling stuff out of your ass.

You’re doing low volume training?

You said you do rep after rep, and then more reps even after you think you couldn’t get anymore?

Either way, can’t wait until you post how you are looking for advice on your shoulder or back injury.

Pros get injured all the time. High volume and low volume. And good form.

And they know more then you twat.

Go back to your cashier job at McDonald’s bro.

You’re a legend in your own mind.

I have a degree and license with 20 years of experience about sports injuries.

All your posts are know it all bullshit.

We argued about cardio. Said you don’t need it and don’t do it.

Then I see you posting how you are doing cardio.

Talking out of your asshole.

 

[Montego]

There may be know way of knowing if the progressive overload will cause failure until it happens.

Can’t prevent it, even if you’re “strong as fuck.”

I am not saying don’t train hard, but going to the well to many times and that twat will get hurt. Just a matter of time.

Just examine the terminology “failure” for example. If a person takes it to the point that the muscle or tendon fails????

That’s a recipe for disaster in my book.

And reckless to promote quite frankly.

Failure to complete a perfect rep is failure.

Saying that promoting training to failure is reckless, they just silly though.

And I'm not saying strength prevents injury, it promotes it when it's unrealistic for the human body.

 

[Augustine5I]

Ive seen what your knowledge has built you old fuck. I study this shit. I’ve been doing it for 19 years. I’ve helped tons of people and continue to do so. Your education is shit you proved that with every wrong myth you posted. Go duck yourself and stop spreading nonsense. I gave you a study that showed that you’re wrong. Not all “experts” are experts and you’re no exception. Look at me and look at you. Who knows more? Who has actually applied it? I’ve argued with you over so much nonsense you posted on here. You’re almost always wrong. Nice appeal to authority. How many people here have messaged you saying your posts have helped them? How many people here and other places have messaged you to help them at all? Application, experience and knowledge over any of your degrees. You work with people already fucked up you have the worst group to even look at you for anything.

I have had plenty of vets pm me for advice. And I wouldn’t brag about it. Especially to a dick.

Just Bc you look better doesn’t mean you know more about injuries. Means you take way more gear. And hgh. And whatever the fuck else.

Experts aren’t experts?? Lolz.

Dumb ppl say that twat.

So what do you do for a living? Top secret at Burger King? Lol.

You know dick. Go back to bed.

 

[Augustine5I]

Failure to complete a perfect rep is failure.

Saying that promoting training to failure is reckless, they just silly though.

And I'm not saying strength prevents injury, it promotes it when it's unrealistic for the human body.

Correct bro.

But when does an individual know when it’s “unrealistic” tho?

It can’t be known.

You push until you hear a pop or blow a tendon.

There call accidental Bc you don’t mean for it to happen.

There is a certain tensile strength of a tendon. Exceed that and it breaks like a wire.

But a person doesn’t know what that “point” of breakage is… even if the muscle is ridiculously strong.

I am open to discussing everything.

That dickhead thinks he is end all of knowledge Bc he took a two day certification to be a personal trainer or some crap.

More then one person can know something and add to the discussion.

 

[Bft84]

You’re doing low volume training?

You said you do rep after rep, and then more reps even after you think you couldn’t get anymore?

Either way, can’t wait until you post how you are looking for advice on your shoulder or back injury.

Pros get injured all the time. High volume and low volume. And good form.

And they know more then you twat.

Go back to your cashier job at McDonald’s bro.

You’re a legend in your own mind.

I have a degree and license with 20 years of experience about sports injuries.

All your posts are know it all bullshit.

We argued about cardio. Said you don’t need it and don’t do it.

Then I see you posting how you are doing cardio.

Talking out of your asshole.

I said I’m doing a 5-10 minute leisurely walk after meals for digestion as an experiment . Buddy post your old ragged physique. Come to Atlanta and let me know please.
I know damn well what I’m talking about.
im literally right about everything. What retard thinks I’d be talking about high volume? I’ve never advocated it one time you washed up old bitch. Nope you don’t need cardio to lose fat. You’re useless and add nothing.
It’s called intelligent programming!!!!! Guys know I know what I’m talking about
You’re experience is with people who are already fucked up. You don’t prevent anything stay in your lane. Do you know how hard it is to get cns fatigue. McDonald’s? Your insults are just more evidence of how clever you are. You have to make shit up but I’m speaking the truth about you.
i know nothing? I’m 37 and my only injuries came from labor jobs when I was younger, never once from years of low volume failure training. I’ve never had anyone get injured or overtrain from it either.

 

[Bft84]

Correct bro.

But when does an individual know when it’s “unrealistic” tho?

It can’t be known.

You push until you hear a pop or blow a tendon.

There call accidental Bc you don’t mean for it to happen.

There is a certain tensile strength of a tendon. Exceed that and it breaks like a wire.

But a person doesn’t know what that “point” of breakage is… even if the muscle is ridiculously strong.

I am open to discussing everything.

That dickhead thinks he is end all of knowledge Bc he took a two day certification to be a personal trainer or some crap.

More then one person can know something and add to the discussion.

more shit pulled out of your ass along with your “it’s harder on the cns”.

 

[Augustine5I]

I said I’m doing a 5-10 minute leisurely walk after meals for digestion as an experiment . Buddy post your old ragged physique. Come to Atlanta and let me know please.
I know damn well what I’m talking about.
im literally right about everything. What retard thinks I’d be talking about high volume? I’ve never advocated it one time you washed up old bitch. Nope you don’t need cardio to lose fat. You’re useless and add nothing.
It’s called intelligent programming!!!!! Guys know I know what I’m talking about
You’re experience is with people who are already fucked up. You don’t prevent anything stay in your lane. Do you know how hard it is to get cns fatigue. McDonald’s? Your insults are just more evidence of how clever you are. You have to make shit up but I’m speaking the truth about you.
i know nothing? I’m 37 and my only injuries came from labor jobs when I was younger, never once from years of low volume failure training. I’ve never had anyone get injured or overtrain from it either.

How old are you?

Let’s see how you look at 51 dick.

Keep training to failure all the time. See how it goes. Bet you won’t be lifting at 51.

I never said failure isn’t good or useful.

My issue was in response to you going to failure all the time.

You are alone on this… even professionals don’t.

You know professionals? Ppl who get paid for their knowledge.

Like me. Unlike you.

I live in a million dollar home by the water. Drive a Range Rover. Own two businesses. Have 1.5 in 401k

That’s how I measure SUCCESS dope.

I make money for my expertise.

You quibble online for attention. I share my knowledge

You argue if someone doesn’t agree with your OPINION

I don’t have time for your baby bullshit.

Have a nice day in your one bedroom apartment Studying your material to support your ideas.

 

[Montego]

Correct bro.

But when does an individual know when it’s “unrealistic” tho?

It can’t be known.

You push until you hear a pop or blow a tendon.

There call accidental Bc you don’t mean for it to happen.

There is a certain tensile strength of a tendon. Exceed that and it breaks like a wire.

But a person doesn’t know what that “point” of breakage is… even if the muscle is ridiculously strong.

I am open to discussing everything.

That dickhead thinks he is end all of knowledge Bc he took a two day certification to be a personal trainer or some crap.

More then one person can know something and add to the discussion.

I think if you know your body well enough, which most don't, you can see the symptoms that might pop up.

Joint pain, chronic tightness, weakness in surrounding muscle groups and so on.

But yes, there's no way to know sometimes that it's going to happen.

Hydration plays a huge role as well and it's often overlooked. I would say this probably plays a larger role in muscle injury then failure.

Thinking on that, I can't think of many injuries I've seen or heard about that happen during failure... Well they're all failure since you can't do a rep when you rip your shit up lol. Typically they come at the beginning of the set.

I'm obviously not in the PT field to take a large sampling from though. I would be interested to know the breakdown of who is getting injuries and when. Age, training age, training history and so on.