I quit worrying about estrogen

[Machforce1]

For a little over a year now, been diligently keeping estrogen below 50. I’ve listened to the overwhelming advice from every angle to keep it low. High is bad. Ironically, I haven’t made the gains that I would expect given the effort I put into the diet, rest and the training. So for the last two months I said F it. Tired of taking Adex. Tired of worrying about it. Funny thing happened…I’ve put on nearly 10 lbs in those two months. Body fat has not increased substantially. I don’t have any issues with MPB, but I did notice my hair thinning out over the past year. Now it’s thicker and fuller than ever. Had a little gray, now that’s gone. I’m thicker, fuller and noticeably stronger as well. I just look all around much better. Don’t know where estrogen is right now, but my experience with running test without an AI previously had me in the 80’s.

Anybody else just perform and feel better with high estrogen levels? Not sure why and I know everyone is different, but it has worked really well for me.

 

[Jbg1121]

I feel best in the 80-100 range personally.

 

[WED]

My last few cycles on Primo my E2 has been in the 30s, right in the reference range. I've heard/read a lot about the synergistic benefits of higher E2 with HGH and fueling growth/recover/gainz/etc.

I can't remember the dosage, but did a test only cycle a while back and was in the 80s and felt perfectly fine.

Next cycle going to try to push E2 into that 60-80 range and see how I feel. Future cycle I'm also kinda interested in doing a high test/high mast cycle and seeing how much I can push both before seeing sides and the possible benefits.

 

[Meetketchup]

Everybody seems to have a sweet spot and it varies. I like mine around 60 in off-season and sub 40's on a cut. People often forget you need estrogen to grow.

 

[Sirchon]

Low E will have worse side effects than a slightly higher ones.

 

[Wally954]

That’s why I always say fuck bloodwork when it comes to E2, go by your symptoms, there’s no need to take Arimidex if you’re not showing or feeling symptoms of a high estrogen it’s better to have a little bit more than not enough. I aromatize heavily, and I rarely find myself needing to take more than a quarter or a half a milligram twice a week for a week or two every month or two, if there are no symptoms then no point in taking it in my opinion

 

[ruffus]

As the few small studies i have seen point to even high normal E2 leading to shorter life spans so i keep mine levels down. We all have our own comfort zones as to what we think is best for our own lives.

 

[Wally954]

As the few small studies i have seen point to even high normal E2 leading to shorter life spans so i keep mine levels down. We all have our own comfort zones as to what we think is best for our own lives.

Low estrogen is probably worse for your health in the long run, more risk of cardiovascular issues and osteoporosis, estrogen is also a neuro and cardiovascular protectant . that study is probably done on people who have zero testosterone and very high estrogen who are fat and out of shape.E2 levels are not linear for everybody, if you’re taking a ton of testosterone, your estrogen is going to be higher than somebody doing TRT, that doesn’t mean that the estrogen is affecting you the same way, if you’re not having gynecomastia and bloating than it’s not really affecting you as much as it would be for somebody having those symptoms. High estrogen has more visual symptoms and is easier to gauge. Both could also cause erectile dysfunction. if you’re not bloating and getting fat and you’re not an emotional wreck in your mind and your dick is operating properly and u don’t use ais then you probably won’t need them until symptoms show,but if you are using AIs and your bones and joints are hurting, can’t bust a nut , and your hair is falling out then your estrogen is probably too low and u should probably cut back. Like you said everybody has a comfort zone and as long as you’re feeling good without symptoms of high or low estrogen that’s all that matters .

 

[Bolan]

Im happy in the 60's on a bulk and 30-40's depending on how hard the cut.

Prepping for a show... Id want my e2 @ 0 on game day. Letro dry you right up!

 

[ruffus]

Low estrogen is probably worse for your health in the long run, more risk of cardiovascular issues and osteoporosis, estrogen is also a neuro and cardiovascular protectant . that study is probably done on people who have zero testosterone and very high estrogen who are fat and out of shape.E2 levels are not linear for everybody, if you’re taking a ton of testosterone, your estrogen is going to be higher than somebody doing TRT, that doesn’t mean that the estrogen is affecting you the same way, if you’re not having gynecomastia and bloating than it’s not really affecting you as much as it would be for somebody having those symptoms. High estrogen has more visual symptoms and is easier to gauge. Both could also cause erectile dysfunction. if you’re not bloating and getting fat and you’re not an emotional wreck in your mind and your dick is operating properly and u don’t use ais then you probably won’t need them until symptoms show,but if you are using AIs and your bones and joints are hurting, can’t bust a nut , and your hair is falling out then your estrogen is probably too low and u should probably cut back. Like you said everybody has a comfort zone and as long as you’re feeling good without symptoms of high or low estrogen that’s all that matters .

Never suggest anything about low E2
Seems moderate level is best for longevity.
It was a few small studies And not the greatest but just the best i have found regarding longevity and E2
I just go by what the best data i can find shows.
Do you have any studies showing longevity is better with what you are suggesting?
I always have an open mind to new data and optimizing things.
As for me i feel the same with E2 at 10 or 100
But i can feel fine with high BP of glucose levels So feeling is not a good way for me to decide what is best.

 

[SBG22]

Mine is low most of the time. Sucks badly. Not sure how to keep it elevated while staying lean.

 

[Battousai]

Lots of stupidity going on in this thread.

 

[Battousai]

Low E will have worse side effects than a slightly higher ones.

That's absolutely not true and also depends on what you define as low and high. Less than 20 is low.

People don't understand there are serious health consequences that come from having high e2, like arterial damage. The high e2 crowd is about as dumb as the ldl doesn't matter crowd. Both "feel great" but are doing longterm damage to their bodies.

 

[Battousai]

Mine is low most of the time. Sucks badly. Not sure how to keep it elevated while staying lean.

Up your testosterone dose

 

[Battousai]

Never suggest anything about low E2
Seems moderate level is best for longevity.
It was a few small studies And not the greatest but just the best i have found regarding longevity and E2
I just go by what the best data i can find shows.
Do you have any studies showing longevity is better with what you are suggesting?
I always have an open mind to new data and optimizing things.
As for me i feel the same with E2 at 10 or 100
But i can feel fine with high BP of glucose levels So feeling is not a good way for me to decide what is best.

Of course not, just what "I feel" and what gym bros say are best. That beats data!

 

[Battousai]

Low estrogen is probably worse for your health in the long run, more risk of cardiovascular issues and osteoporosis, estrogen is also a neuro and cardiovascular protectant . that study is probably done on people who have zero testosterone and very high estrogen who are fat and out of shape.E2 levels are not linear for everybody, if you’re taking a ton of testosterone, your estrogen is going to be higher than somebody doing TRT, that doesn’t mean that the estrogen is affecting you the same way, if you’re not having gynecomastia and bloating than it’s not really affecting you as much as it would be for somebody having those symptoms. High estrogen has more visual symptoms and is easier to gauge. Both could also cause erectile dysfunction. if you’re not bloating and getting fat and you’re not an emotional wreck in your mind and your dick is operating properly and u don’t use ais then you probably won’t need them until symptoms show,but if you are using AIs and your bones and joints are hurting, can’t bust a nut , and your hair is falling out then your estrogen is probably too low and u should probably cut back. Like you said everybody has a comfort zone and as long as you’re feeling good without symptoms of high or low estrogen that’s all that matters .

You realize high estrogen is directly correlated to cardiovascular disease? Please show me any data showing low estrogen is related to cardiovascular disease. I'd love to read it!

 

[Jbswole40]

Everybody seems to have a sweet spot and it varies. I like mine around 60 in off-season and sub 40's on a cut. People often forget you need estrogen to grow.

 

[Astro95]

Battousai came out swinging love it LOL

I’ve had gyno, had gyno surgically removed and gyno regrown on my left nipple where the surgeon didn’t remove the whole gland. These days I know if my e2 is high or Prolactin because that nipple will start hurting. I don’t like how I feel with low e2, but I definitely don’t let it ride high because that’s another surgery I’m really not wanting to have. Everyone responds differently, I’m very sensitive to slight e2 elevations and the tits grow quick. If all is good, ride it out I guess. Part of the game is figuring out your body.

 

[302]

Battousai came out swinging love it LOL

I’ve had gyno, had gyno surgically removed and gyno regrown on my left nipple where the surgeon didn’t remove the whole gland. These days I know if my e2 is high or Prolactin because that nipple will start hurting. I don’t like how I feel with low e2, but I definitely don’t let it ride high because that’s another surgery I’m really not wanting to have. Everyone responds differently, I’m very sensitive to slight e2 elevations and the tits grow quick. If all is good, ride it out I guess. Part of the game is figuring out your body.

Someone with high e2 must of touched his no no square.

 

[Battousai]

Battousai came out swinging love it LOL

I’ve had gyno, had gyno surgically removed and gyno regrown on my left nipple where the surgeon didn’t remove the whole gland. These days I know if my e2 is high or Prolactin because that nipple will start hurting. I don’t like how I feel with low e2, but I definitely don’t let it ride high because that’s another surgery I’m really not wanting to have. Everyone responds differently, I’m very sensitive to slight e2 elevations and the tits grow quick. If all is good, ride it out I guess. Part of the game is figuring out your body.

It's idiots on forums telling me not to worry about estrogen when I started is why I have gyno. A little aromasin or arimidex would've stopped that from happening LOL

The only negative I've have from having ultra low e2 was crunchy dry joints. But that's because I was purposefully trying to crush it to practically 0.

 

[Astro95]

It's idiots on forums telling me not to worry about estrogen when I started is why I have gyno. A little aromasin or arimidex would've stopped that from happening LOL

Yeah gyno is a no no for me. Ruins your whole look. Luckily my regrowth isn’t bad, shirtless it’s just pec no visible tittie, but from time to time with a shirt it’ll look like I left the turn signal on. Kinda like when it’s cold and the nips get pointy, LOL I remember lactating on Tren and Test no ai during my first cycles felt like someone had sand paper to my tits whilst in bed soaked in a puddle of sweat hahaha! Good ol days of not knowing what I was even pinning or anything

 

[Jbswole40]

Yeah gyno is a no no for me. Ruins your whole look. Luckily my regrowth isn’t bad, shirtless it’s just pec no visible tittie, but from time to time with a shirt it’ll look like I left the turn signal on. Kinda like when it’s cold and the nips get pointy, LOL I remember lactating on Tren and Test no ai during my first cycles felt like someone had sand paper to my tits whilst in bed soaked in a puddle of sweat hahaha! Good ol days of not knowing what I was even pinning or anything

I remember u saying that yrs ago,i cringe at the thought of bottomed out e2,its the worst,i have been blessed with never having high prolactin or e2.
500mg no ai..its when i went higher lil mast or primo would keep me in range & as @Astro95 said you have to know how your body reacts to such things via bloodwork.Its definitely not feasible to just throw ai blindly at a possible issue.

 

[Battousai]

Yeah gyno is a no no for me. Ruins your whole look. Luckily my regrowth isn’t bad, shirtless it’s just pec no visible tittie, but from time to time with a shirt it’ll look like I left the turn signal on. Kinda like when it’s cold and the nips get pointy, LOL I remember lactating on Tren and Test no ai during my first cycles felt like someone had sand paper to my tits whilst in bed soaked in a puddle of sweat hahaha! Good ol days of not knowing what I was even pinning or anything

It was probably the tren dbol no ai that did it for me lol

 

[Battousai]

I remember u saying that yrs ago,i cringe at the thought of bottomed out e2,its the worst,i have been blessed with never having high prolactin or e2.
500mg no ai..its when i went higher lil mast or primo would keep me in range & as @Astro95 said you have to know how your body reacts to such things via bloodwork.Its definitely not feasible to just throw ai blindly at a possible issue.

I just use equipoise these days, keeps me in range

 

[Wally954]

You realize high estrogen is directly correlated to cardiovascular disease? Please show me any data showing low estrogen is related to cardiovascular disease. I'd love to read it!

Low estrogen (
estradiol) in men is associated with an increased risk of cardiovascular issues, including coronary artery disease and higher cardiovascular mortality. Estrogen plays a protective role in men by managing lipid levels, maintaining vascular health, and regulating adipose tissue; its deficiency can lead to elevated bad cholesterol (LDL), reduced good cholesterol (HDL), and increased visceral fat.
PubMed Central (PMC) (.gov) +5
Cardiovascular Effects of Low Estrogen in Men

• Increased Cardiovascular Mortality:Studies indicate that men with low levels of estradiol (< 15 pg/ml) have a significantly higher risk of cardiovascular death, independent of age, obesity, and testosterone levels.
• Coronary Artery Disease (CAD): Deficiency in estrogen action (or low testosterone, which converts to estrogen) is linked to atherosclerosis, where fatty deposits clog arteries.
• Worsened Risk Factors: Low estrogen, often in combination with low testosterone, is associated with metabolic syndrome, insulin resistance, and higher fat accumulation, all of which elevate heart disease risk.
• Vascular Dysfunction: Low estrogen impairs the ability of blood vessels to relax, reducing blood flow.
  American Heart Association Journals +5

 

[Battousai]

Low estrogen (
estradiol) in men is associated with an increased risk of cardiovascular issues, including coronary artery disease and higher cardiovascular mortality. Estrogen plays a protective role in men by managing lipid levels, maintaining vascular health, and regulating adipose tissue; its deficiency can lead to elevated bad cholesterol (LDL), reduced good cholesterol (HDL), and increased visceral fat.
View attachment 243559PubMed Central (PMC) (.gov) +5
Cardiovascular Effects of Low Estrogen in Men

• Increased Cardiovascular Mortality:Studies indicate that men with low levels of estradiol (< 15 pg/ml) have a significantly higher risk of cardiovascular death, independent of age, obesity, and testosterone levels.
• Coronary Artery Disease (CAD): Deficiency in estrogen action (or low testosterone, which converts to estrogen) is linked to atherosclerosis, where fatty deposits clog arteries.
• Worsened Risk Factors: Low estrogen, often in combination with low testosterone, is associated with metabolic syndrome, insulin resistance, and higher fat accumulation, all of which elevate heart disease risk.
• Vascular Dysfunction: Low estrogen impairs the ability of blood vessels to relax, reducing blood flow.
  View attachment 243560American Heart Association Journals +5

Yes, that's less than 15pg/ml. No one's arguing that that's healthy. It's arguing that normal ranges (15-40) are considered low. You will also have cardiovascular problems as well when it's high. The goal is to keep it within a recommended range just like all other health markers.

 

[Stonelivingston]

Yes, that's less than 15pg/ml. No one's arguing that that's healthy. It's arguing that normal ranges (15-40) are considered low. You will also have cardiovascular problems as well when it's high. The goal is to keep it within a recommended range just like all other health markers.

This is one of the better videos on high estrogen misconceptions and all the bad data that exists about estrogen control from one of the leading hormonal doctors in the country.

The summary: High estrogen is largely beneficial. AIs are largely harmful.

View: https://youtu.be/3hG2tWvDpVQ?si=mSB6p1030KeZrKu-

 

[Wally954]

Yes, that's less than 15pg/ml. No one's arguing that that's healthy. It's arguing that normal ranges (15-40) are considered low. You will also have cardiovascular problems as well when it's high. The goal is to keep it within a recommended range just like all other health markers.

You are right, but those numbers are different for everyone once you know, the symptoms of being too low or too high you can adjust accordingly

 

[Battousai]

You are right, but those numbers are different for everyone once you know, the symptoms of being too low or too high you can adjust accordingly

Too an extent I agree. The problem is there's people in the bodybuilding community that think 80 or 100 is "just right." I see this as very unhealthy. If you are at 50pg/ml and feel best there that's most likely fine.

 

[Battousai]

This is one of the better videos on high estrogen misconceptions and all the bad data that exists about estrogen control from one of the leading hormonal doctors in the country.

The summary: High estrogen is largely beneficial. AIs are largely harmful.

View: https://youtu.be/3hG2tWvDpVQ?si=mSB6p1030KeZrKu-

There's always that one guy that wants to go against the data. There's also a dozen doctors on YouTube telling people eating saturated fat and ignoring fiber is good for the heart.

Again, yes having estrogen incredibly low is also bad. A lot of this "don't use an AI" started in the old days of steroid use when people were popping arimidex like candy cause they didn't know any better, that doesn't mean you just let it go crazy.

That's like saying blood pressure is bad when it's too low, so we should high blood pressure. Stupid logic