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Lats being stubborn

Toolman44

Toolman44

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Hey guys, hope you all are doing well. Just looking for some suggestions. I'm having a hard time finding a movement to get a good squeeze in my lats. They are definitely a lagging body part of mine that I'm trying to bring up. I've been playing with the amount of weight and pretty much every type of row/pull down. Can't seem to get a good contraction and fatigue. Thanks in advance.
 
Reverse Grip Pulldowns (Hammer Strength or cable) with elbows straight down to hips

Wide grip pulldowns pulling with your elbows

Cable or Hammer Strength Pullovers - Emphasize stretch

Seated row elbows tight and drive down and straight back toward hips keeping shoulder down. Chest supported are great so you can really brace yourself.

Single arm DB Rows again drive back towards hips and get huge stretch at bottom.

Many more options, but you get the idea. The path of the pulldown or row should be in a straight plane down and or back with shoulders down. Slow on the negatives.
 
Under hand shoulder width grip, seated rows.
Full stretch to full contraction, get them elbows back & pull with your elbows not your hand to limit bicep involvement
 
Recommend lifting straps. Really helped me focus on pulling with my lats. If I don’t have them, I keep my grip really soft. The harder I grip the bar the more arm and foreman I feel working
 
Nood said:
Recommend lifting straps. Really helped me focus on pulling with my lats. If I don’t have them, I keep my grip really soft. The harder I grip the bar the more arm and foreman I feel working
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Definitely getting some. My forearms were super pumped last sesh.
 
this year my philosophy for back training has just been to have good horizontal movement for lats. if you look at the diagrams, you arent really missing anything if you don't have a vertical pull. unless other muscles steal the movement; which traps do for me, so I hit traps before my row.
 

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Valdosta said:
this year my philosophy for back training has just been to have good horizontal movement for lats. if you look at the diagrams, you arent really missing anything if you don't have a vertical pull. unless other muscles steal the movement; which traps do for me, so I hit traps before my row.
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I'm sorry, but this is not true. If it works for you great, but for the rest of us mere mortals vertical pulling especially hits lats. Pull ups, pulldowns, pullovers, etc.

Horizontal pulling does hit lats, but more so rhomboids, traps, upper back.

This is kinesiology 101
 
Meetketchup said:
I'm sorry, but this is not true. If it works for you great, but for the rest of us mere mortals vertical pulling especially hits lats. Pull ups, pulldowns, pullovers, etc.

Horizontal pulling does hit lats, but more so rhomboids, traps, upper back.

This is kinesiology 101
Click to expand...
been workin so far from what i can tell. only dropped vertical pulls ~4 months ago though so we'll have to give it another 8 months or so to really tell
 
Pretty much everything ketchup said, but with that said, what are you doing for back? It’d be nice to know what movements you’re doing and how. With back the stretch on the eccentric part of the movement is like 70% of the gains imo. Most guys focus on the pull, usually with excessive weight recruiting all kinds of other muscles to aid. I pull, contract for a second or 2 and slowly return till lats are fully stretched, then repeat. Elbows close to the body.
 
What's a current back training day look like?
 
Meetketchup said:
I'm sorry, but this is not true. If it works for you great, but for the rest of us mere mortals vertical pulling especially hits lats. Pull ups, pulldowns, pullovers, etc.

Horizontal pulling does hit lats, but more so rhomboids, traps, upper back.

This is kinesiology 101
Click to expand...
I definitely felt the hammer strength low row in my upper back. Seated
Astro95 said:
Pretty much everything ketchup said, but with that said, what are you doing for back? It’d be nice to know what movements you’re doing and how. With back the stretch on the eccentric part of the movement is like 70% of the gains imo. Most guys focus on the pull, usually with excessive weight recruiting all kinds of other muscles to aid. I pull, contract for a second or 2 and slowly return till lats are fully stretched, then repeat. Elbows close to the body.
Click to expand...
Lately it's been hammer strength high and low row. Chest supported T-bar row heavy as I can go. Then finish off with standard cable pull down, sitting or straight arm standing really slow on the eccentric. Pretty much in that order. Usually about 20 sets total.
 
Toolman44 said:
I definitely felt the hammer strength low row in my upper back. Seated

Lately it's been hammer strength high and low row. Chest supported T-bar row heavy as I can go. Then finish off with standard cable pull down, sitting or straight arm standing really slow on the eccentric. Pretty much in that order. Usually about 20 sets total.
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decent movement choices. id cut the total volume down though, u probably arent giving it your all on those sets. mines 4 total
 
It doesn't matter what you do if you can't feel it.

I would start doing nothing but isolateral work. It's much easier to feel one side working then trying to get the entire back engaged which is what you're doing with 2 arm movements.

Seated one arm cable row. Neutral grip. Keep the shoulders square, keep the torso 90 degrees into contraction, don't lean back at all, don't twist at the waist during contraction. SLIGHT pull forward into the stretch, pause, think of squeezing your elbow as close along your leg as possible into the waist band of your shorts to make the weight move. AGAIN, squeeze the lat to make the weight move. Sit there and don't do a rep until you feel the lat fire to start the movement.

Don't twist the wrist, ever during back for anything.

This is just a "practice" set. Its worked very well at getting people to feel their lats working in the past.

Once you feel the lat fire, you can duplicate that in other movements quite easy
 
Montego said:
It doesn't matter what you do if you can't feel it.

I would start doing nothing but isolateral work. It's much easier to feel one side working then trying to get the entire back engaged which is what you're doing with 2 arm movements.

Seated one arm cable row. Neutral grip. Keep the shoulders square, keep the torso 90 degrees into contraction, don't lean back at all, don't twist at the waist during contraction. SLIGHT pull forward into the stretch, pause, think of squeezing your elbow as close along your leg as possible into the waist band of your shorts to make the weight move. AGAIN, squeeze the lat to make the weight move. Sit there and don't do a rep until you feel the lat fire to start the movement.

Don't twist the wrist, ever during back for anything.

This is just a "practice" set. Its worked very well at getting people to feel their lats working in the past.

Once you feel the lat fire, you can duplicate that in other movements quite easy
Click to expand...
on the seated row machine i started doing like those lawnmower pulls. that seems to get some really nice activation you can feel.
 
I’m surprised no one said wide grip pull ups. Literally do a fuckload of wide grip pull ups slow on the decline. You will get real fucking wide doing that. Then some bent over rows for that THICC THICC you know?
 
JackedCarpenter33 said:
I’m surprised no one said wide grip pull ups. Literally do a fuckload of wide grip pull ups slow on the decline. You will get real fucking wide doing that. Then some bent over rows for that THICC THICC you know?
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Winner winner chicken dinner... I was just going to say this in the comments....
Wide ass pullups and heavy ass DB rows.
 
Everyone keeps suggesting exercises.

Again, if he can't feel his lats while he trains them, then it's closing your eyes and throwing darts.

Very few people can actually train specific areas of the back effectively. You can't see it, that's why it's so hard to engage specific points, and it's such a large area with so many different parts, and that's why so many people have shit backs.

Mine didn't improve until I could actually feel the target muscle working. I've thrown tons of weight around with no results on back. It doesn't usually work when you're not feeling it.
 
Montego said:
Everyone keeps suggesting exercises.

Again, if he can't feel his lats while he trains them, then it's closing your eyes and throwing darts.

Very few people can actually train specific areas of the back effectively. You can't see it, that's why it's so hard to engage specific points, and it's such a large area with so many different parts, and that's why so many people have shit backs.

Mine didn't improve until I could actually feel the target muscle working. I've thrown tons of weight around with no results on back. It doesn't usually work when you're not feeling it.
Click to expand...

Yep, 💯%. It's all about learning how to engage and train the targeted muscle.

Back can be extremely difficult. Moving weight from point A to point B is extremely easy. Learning how to move that weight using the targeted muscle group isn't.
 
Watch some Doug Fruchey vids on YouTube, he’ll give you some ideas . He’s all about dropping that ego and feeling that muscle, easier to see it done than just read some advice . I’m with Monte though, I had to cut the weight in half and focus to find that feeling I was looking for. Good 20 minutes using single handle and squeezing reps before moving onto barbell/t bar row
 
Montego said:
Everyone keeps suggesting exercises.

Again, if he can't feel his lats while he trains them, then it's closing your eyes and throwing darts.

Very few people can actually train specific areas of the back effectively. You can't see it, that's why it's so hard to engage specific points, and it's such a large area with so many different parts, and that's why so many people have shit backs.

Mine didn't improve until I could actually feel the target muscle working. I've thrown tons of weight around with no results on back. It doesn't usually work when you're not feeling it.
Click to expand...
All solid advice man. I appreciate it Montego!
 
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