Anabolic Round Table Q&A

[Montego]

This is going to be a thread designed for Q&A for our more "seasoned" members.

This isn't the pit.

There will be no trolling.

There will be no arguing. Debates are fine but arguing like children won't be tolerated.

There will be no name calling, insults or shit info given out.

If you are not a member listed below (I will update this as we move along) , do not give advice. There are 1 million threads in the forum where you can give advice but this isn't one of them.

Anything can be asked in regards to AAS, Diet, Training, Cardio, Rest, Supplements, Peptides, SARMS, Blood Work, TRT, Thyroid and so on.

Let's see how this goes.....

Current Vets who can answer questions -

Tren2k14
REHH
Oldschool
Bcj
Swiper
ToureagV8
Skip
Tommy
Sherk
Jersey
Vision
Heavyiron
Farva
Ldog

 

[Vision]

Great list of names, lost of solids up there that have a vast amount of knowledge and contributed immensely to the community over the years..Its a privilege and a honor to be among those listed..

Great idea.. In to learn and share!

 

[Ryu7]

I guess I’ll go first.

Nadralone and finasteride, I have read and seen it posted that the two should not be taken together. The only thing I could find as to a good reason why is...... it prevents the 5-alpha Reductase enzyme from breaking down the nandralone causing increased androgenic effects..... yet I see many folks taking the two together..... what’s the deal here? Is it one of those maybe you are affected maybe your aren’t things? Or should it legitimately be avoided?


Another question.... proviron..... which blood tests would be recommended to test it’s legitamacy? I used test and free test numbers to test mine but it didn’t quite test the way I thought.... total test went down and free test stayed the same..... also shbg came back flagged high when I thought it would be lowered..... was 100mg per day in 2 doses...... it was the only supp I was on at the time as well.

 

[suraonyx23]

Kool, nice list of names. Should do well

 

[Montego]

I guess I’ll go first.

Nadralone and finasteride, I have read and seen it posted that the two should not be taken together. The only thing I could find as to a good reason why is...... it prevents the 5-alpha Reductase enzyme from breaking down the nandralone causing increased androgenic effects..... yet I see many folks taking the two together..... what’s the deal here? Is it one of those maybe you are affected maybe your aren’t things? Or should it legitimately be avoided?


Another question.... proviron..... which blood tests would be recommended to test it’s legitamacy? I used test and free test numbers to test mine but it didn’t quite test the way I thought.... total test went down and free test stayed the same..... also shbg came back flagged high when I thought it would be lowered..... was 100mg per day in 2 doses...... it was the only supp I was on at the time as well.

Finasteride and nandralone SHOULD be fine together but, real world application shows otherwise you are correct.

If I had an issue with MPB, I would avoid the combo just to be safe. There isn't any research that suggests this, just tons of reports on it.

The Proviron.... Besides a lab max test, you're on the right track. If total test went down but free test stayed the same I would think that's a good sign. Shbg going up doesn't support that though...... You were on no test? Even a trt dose?

 

[Ryu7]

Finasteride and nandralone SHOULD be fine together but, real world application shows otherwise you are correct.

If I had an issue with MPB, I would avoid the combo just to be safe. There isn't any research that suggests this, just tons of reports on it.

The Proviron.... Besides a lab max test, you're on the right track. If total test went down but free test stayed the same I would think that's a good sign. Shbg going up doesn't support that though...... You were on no test? Even a trt dose?

No I was between cycles and all natty. I didn’t get a baseline for the shbg though, just a baseline for test and free test. The shbg was an after thought so I threw it in for the second test. I thought free test would be much higher due to the shbg nature of proviron though?

 

[movingsteel 79]

This is going to be a thread designed for Q&A for our more "seasoned" members.

This isn't the pit.

There will be no trolling.

There will be no arguing. Debates are fine but arguing like children won't be tolerated.

There will be no name calling, insults or shit info given out.

If you are not a member listed below (I will update this as we move along) , do not give advice. There are 1 million threads in the forum where you can give advice but this isn't one of them.

Anything can be asked in regards to AAS, Diet, Training, Cardio, Rest, Supplements, Peptides, SARMS, Blood Work, TRT, Thyroid and so on.

Let's see how this goes.....

Current Vets who can answer questions -

Tren2k14
REHH
Oldschool
Bcj
Swiper
ToureagV8
Skip
Tommy
Sherk
Jersey
Vision
Heavyiron
Farva
Ldog

EXCELLENT idea Monte.., and VERY EXCELLENT choices in the men as well.!! This should become a huge asset for all of us ASF members that are wanting to learn more about all aspects from training., dieting., cycling., etc..etc.. QUALITY., TRUE., and PROVEN EXPERIENCED information will be plentiful with this lineup of very experienced guy's.!! I hope the trolls get banned as well if they try to fuck this up. Also like the "Topic of the week" idea.!! Really a great idea man .!!

 

[Montego]

No I was between cycles and all natty. I didn’t get a baseline for the shbg though, just a baseline for test and free test. The shbg was an after thought so I threw it in for the second test. I thought free test would be much higher due to the shbg nature of proviron though?

If free test was the same as when total test was higher, then it looks like the Proviron was working.... Free test should drop in comparison to total test typically.

So 3k total test and 100 free test on cycle and 600 total and 100 free off, would be a good thing. Those are just numbers I'm throwing out to illustrate a point.

Shbg could have been elevated from previous cycle depending on how long you were off and actually lower then before you started Proviron.

Lab max it.

 

[ldog]

Ok....I'm not a fan of Finasteride. I've been to several Finasteride forums and read too many complaints from guys about erection issues and well-being issues(long term effects). Anything that could possibly lower or adversely effect my DHT levels is a no go for me. As you know, DHT is extremely important to erection quality,alpha male characteristics and overall well-being. This is why so many guys feel great on Proviron or Masteron.

As far as detecting Masteron/Proviron's effect on bloodwork, my history is that my Free Test levels drastically increase and my SHBG lowers. This is one of the main reasons why everyone should always use Proviron or Mast in any cycle as it helps to get the most out of your protocol. Are you certain of the quality of your Proviron? There may be some additional scientific reasoning on your
Proviron issue which I'm hoping Vision can elaborate on.

L

I guess I’ll go first.

Nadralone and finasteride, I have read and seen it posted that the two should not be taken together. The only thing I could find as to a good reason why is...... it prevents the 5-alpha Reductase enzyme from breaking down the nandralone causing increased androgenic effects..... yet I see many folks taking the two together..... what’s the deal here? Is it one of those maybe you are affected maybe your aren’t things? Or should it legitimately be avoided?


Another question.... proviron..... which blood tests would be recommended to test it’s legitamacy? I used test and free test numbers to test mine but it didn’t quite test the way I thought.... total test went down and free test stayed the same..... also shbg came back flagged high when I thought it would be lowered..... was 100mg per day in 2 doses...... it was the only supp I was on at the time as well.

 

[REHH]

Thanks for trying to make this a better place Monty, I've seen you working hard moderating.

 

[Skip Foursome]

Ok....I'm not a fan of Finasteride. I've been to several Finasteride forums and read too many complaints from guys about erection issues and well-being issues(long term effects). Anything that could possibly lower or adversely effect my DHT levels is a no go for me. As you know, DHT is extremely important to erection quality,alpha male characteristics and overall well-being. This is why so many guys feel great on Proviron or Masteron.

As far as detecting Masteron/Proviron's effect on bloodwork, my history is that my Free Test levels drastically increase and my SHBG lowers. This is one of the main reasons why everyone should always use Proviron or Mast in any cycle as it helps to get the most out of your protocol. Are you certain of the quality of your Proviron? There may be some additional scientific reasoning on your
Proviron issue which I'm hoping Vision can elaborate on.

L

I agree.

I cannot speak to the interactions of finisteride with nandrolone but I can speak to the side effects of finisteride and I will say for me the side effects were debilitating.

I was so lethargic and depressed I had to stop after a few weeks.

Also note this drug is banned for blood donations.

 

[REHH]

Ok....I'm not a fan of Finasteride. I've been to several Finasteride forums and read too many complaints from guys about erection issues and well-being issues(long term effects). Anything that could possibly lower or adversely effect my DHT levels is a no go for me. As you know, DHT is extremely important to erection quality,alpha male characteristics and overall well-being. This is why so many guys feel great on Proviron or Masteron.

As far as detecting Masteron/Proviron's effect on bloodwork, my history is that my Free Test levels drastically increase and my SHBG lowers. This is one of the main reasons why everyone should always use Proviron or Mast in any cycle as it helps to get the most out of your protocol. Are you certain of the quality of your Proviron? There may be some additional scientific reasoning on your
Proviron issue which I'm hoping Vision can elaborate on.

L

I have some bloodwork that ill post, was running 200mg week test e and 50mg proviron per day, free test was very high, so I assumed the proviron raised free test levels dramatically. I went thru my trt doc for the bloodwork, he was a little alarmed and wanted me to go off everything for a few weeks. I didn't expect that result myself, don't want elevated numbers for doctor bloods.

 

[Montego]

I have some bloodwork that ill post, was running 200mg week test e and 50mg proviron, free test was very high, so I assumed the proviron raised free test levels dramatically. I went thru my trt doc for the bloodwork, he was a little alarmed and wanted me to go off everything for a few weeks. I didn't expect that result myself, don't want elevated numbers for doctor bloods.

Wow.......... Those are crazy high!

 

[Vision]

I guess I’ll go first.

Another question.... proviron..... which blood tests would be recommended to test it’s legitamacy? I used test and free test numbers to test mine but it didn’t quite test the way I thought.... total test went down and free test stayed the same..... also shbg came back flagged high when I thought it would be lowered..... was 100mg per day in 2 doses...... it was the only supp I was on at the time as well.

aside from your other question that I think Idog nailed on point with his reply, your proviron intake at 100mgs is considered a good amount, you should have not only noticed positive effects physically, but a blood analysis should have demonstrated the effects of proviron..lower numbers with SHBG,more free test..There really isn't any other indicator to test for its blood legitimacy, but a compound fail/pass test would be my next go to resource, such as a lab max (https://www.labmax.ca/proviron.php)

 

[REHH]

Wow.......... Those are crazy high!

Yeah! I capped these myself at 50mg with pure raws from ironlion

 

[Ryu7]

Here are the bloods, could it be that 100mg a day was enough to suppress my hpta? I had only been taking it about 3 weeks at this point and I stopped once I saw the results...... I do have a lab max kit that I just recently got so I guess that’s the next step.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Montego]

Here are the bloods, could it be that 100mg a day was enough to suppress my hpta? I had only been taking it about 3 weeks at this point and I stopped once I saw the results...... I do have a lab max kit that I just recently got so I guess that’s the next step.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yeah based off those labs, I don't think you had Proviron.........

 

[Vision]

Here are the bloods, could it be that 100mg a day was enough to suppress my hpta? I had only been taking it about 3 weeks at this point and I stopped once I saw the results...... I do have a lab max kit that I just recently got so I guess that’s the next step.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Proviron has been shown to be "slightly" supressive after long durations such as 8-12 months at 100+mgs daily, and this has been reported with a very low ratio in test subjects, not entirely suppressive but a slight response after a long duration..its fair to say that proviron in general is NOT suppressive..

let me ask you this.. was this after a cycle? if so how long? or was this just for libido support between cycles? when was the last time you where ON and how long ego was that, and what was your PCT protocol? You're HPTA seems to be on point, considering the amount of bound test you had, your free test isn't unreasonable..

 

[REHH]

Just regurgitating here but Dave palumbo says hes able to control DHT side effects in most of his athletes with just an an OTC supplement he makes. He mentioned acne as one side it helped alot with. I breakout the most with 19nors so im thinking of giving it a try. He also sells a kidney supplement that someone else makes that supposably lowers creatinine levels.

Just an FYI, haven't tried them but plan to. Will post if I order and try.

 

[heavyiron]

I guess I’ll go first.

Nadralone and finasteride, I have read and seen it posted that the two should not be taken together. The only thing I could find as to a good reason why is...... it prevents the 5-alpha Reductase enzyme from breaking down the nandralone causing increased androgenic effects..... yet I see many folks taking the two together..... what’s the deal here? Is it one of those maybe you are affected maybe your aren’t things? Or should it legitimately be avoided?


Another question.... proviron..... which blood tests would be recommended to test it’s legitamacy? I used test and free test numbers to test mine but it didn’t quite test the way I thought.... total test went down and free test stayed the same..... also shbg came back flagged high when I thought it would be lowered..... was 100mg per day in 2 doses...... it was the only supp I was on at the time as well.

Not sure you could test Proviron with labs but this might interest you brother

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2892728

Int J Gynaecol Obstet. 1988 Feb;26(1):121-8.
The effect of mesterolone on sperm count, on serum follicle stimulating hormone, luteinizing hormone, plasma testosterone and outcome in idiopathic oligospermic men.

Varma TR1, Patel RH.
Author information

Abstract

Two hundred fifty subfertile men with idiopathic oligospermia (count less than 20 million/ml) were treated with mesterolone (100-150 mg/day) for 12 months. Seminal analysis were assayed 3 times and serum follicle stimulating hormone (FSH) luteinizing hormone (LH) and plasma testosterone were assayed once before treatment and repeated at 3, 6, 9 and 12 months after the initiation of treatment. One hundred ten patients (44%) had normal serum FSH, LH and plasma testosterone, 85 patients (34%) had low serum FSH, LH and low plasma testosterone. One hundred seventy-five patients (70%) had moderate oligospermia (count 5 to less than 20 million/ml) and 75 patients (30%) had severe oligospermia (count less than 5 million/ml). Seventy-five moderately oligospermic patients showed significant improvement in the sperm density, total sperm count and motility following mesterolone therapy whereas only 12% showed improvement in the severe oligospermic group. Mesterolone had no depressing effect on low or normal serum FSH and LH levels but had depressing effect on 25% if the levels were elevated. There was no significant adverse effect on testosterone levels or on liver function. One hundred fifteen (46%) pregnancies resulted following the treatment, 9 of 115 (7.8%) aborted and 2 (1.7%) had ectopic pregnancy. Mesterolone was found to be more useful in patients with a sperm count ranging between 5 and 20 million/ml. Those with severe oligospermia (count less than 5 million) do not seem to benefit from this therapy.


PMID: 2892728

 

[Ryu7]

Proviron has been shown to be "slightly" supressive after long durations such as 8-12 months at 100+mgs daily, and this has been reported with a very low ratio in test subjects, not entirely suppressive but a slight response after a long duration..its fair to say that proviron in general is NOT suppressive..

let me ask you this.. was this after a cycle? if so how long? or was this just for libido support between cycles? when was the last time you where ON and how long ego was that, and what was your PCT protocol? You're HPTA seems to be on point, considering the amount of bound test you had, your free test isn't unreasonable..

This was around 5 months after my last cycle, the bloods were taken at the end of January I believe. Pct was 4 weeks of clomid nolvadex at 100/40 50/20 50/20 50/20. Has bloods pulled a couple times after that and everything looks good, one was for my normal doc as well and no flags at that time.

I did notice a libido increase but wondering if it was placebo effect now, towards the end of the proviron use I did notice my workouts were not at the level they were before I started the proviron.... lack of energy towards end of workout slight loss of strength etc...

 

[Montego]

Thread has been sticked and title changed.

Also posted a weekly topic suggestion thread in the stickies too.
http://www.anabolicsteroidforums.com/showthread.php?t=80841

 

[weizen]

I have some thoughts on your plan.

One single thread will be way too much for anyone to go through for multiple topics and answers. Making stickies is unrealistic for the vast amount of topics that will get brought up. The weekly or maybe bi weekly topics sound great and helps solve those issues. I am definitely a fan of deleting posts, like you mentioned, that muddy up the focus of the thread. Maybe using this thread to keep a running collection of each week's respective topic like a table of contents would help.

Maybe worthwhile to lock a thread after a given amount of time or once you feel those listed above have sufficiently given feedback. Concise and thoroughly explained information is much nicer to read than 15 pages of junk that amasses over time from sidebar comments. It might even help people trying to learn if someone played the noob by asking pertinent questions that could realistically get brought up in order to direct the thread and make it thorough. To be educational, you have to cater to those who may not be very well read. Covering both sides of the coin is pretty important for those trying to learn as it is common to be confused by differing methods

 

[Oldschool]

OR....
Create a forum/sub forum exclusively for this great project. My $.02

 

[GGG]

OR....
Create a forum/sub forum exclusively for this great project. My $.02

x2

would be better organized

 

[Skip Foursome]

or....
Create a forum/sub forum exclusively for this great project. My $.02

x3

 

[Phill]

I would have a question to which I have always received uncertain answers, doubtful and restrictive.
the question is obviously addressed to a HUGE person.
The question is simple: kcal/day and steroids and dosages.
I am not huge and I am not genetically predisposed, but some people say they become so BIG with 500 mg of testosterone a week... he frankly stewed me.

I would like to hear real people for once that really speaks of actual dosages to grow and not just to give the kids the recommendation to start.
Let's see if this magic number of 500 still appears on this thread

 

[jerseydevil]

I have some bloodwork that ill post, was running 200mg week test e and 50mg proviron per day, free test was very high, so I assumed the proviron raised free test levels dramatically. I went thru my trt doc for the bloodwork, he was a little alarmed and wanted me to go off everything for a few weeks. I didn't expect that result myself, don't want elevated numbers for doctor bloods.

Wow.......... Those are crazy high!

I'd like to add one thing to this discussion. While these numbers are very good, I don't think they are as high as you think. Note the free test is expressed in pg/ml, not ng/dl. To figure the percentage you must first convert to ng/dl. 422.9 pg/ml is 42.29 ng/dl. So the free test is 3.5% of total - 42.29/1198, which is excellent. Most natty people free test is 1-2% of total.

Last time I tried this I was running 50mg ED of proviron, and a TRT dose of test. Total came back at 1026ng/dl, and free was 402.2pg/dl. So after conversation 40.22/1026 my free was 3.9% of total.

The OP's free test was only 0.2% of total. So from that I would conclude the proviron was not legit

 

[REHH]

I'd like to add one thing to this discussion. While these numbers are very good, I don't think they are as high as you think. Note the free test is expressed in pg/ml, not ng/dl. To figure the percentage you must first convert to ng/dl. 422.9 pg/ml is 42.29 ng/dl. So the free test is 3.5% of total - 42.29/1198, which is excellent. Most natty people free test is 1-2% of total.

Last time I tried this I was running 50mg ED of proviron, and a TRT dose of test. Total came back at 1026ng/dl, and free was 402.2pg/dl. So after conversation 40.22/1026 my free was 3.9% of total.

The OP's free test was only 0.2% of total. So from that I would conclude the proviron was not legit

Nice way to break that down. I knew my free test was abnormally high compared to previous bloods, almost 3x out of range while total test slightly out of range. The only thing different with this bloodwork was the addition of proviron.

 

[jerseydevil]

Nice way to break that down. I knew my free test was abnormally high compared to previous bloods, almost 3x out of range while total test slightly out of range. The only thing different with this bloodwork was the addition of proviron.

Same with me. I've tested twice with proviron and both times I was 3.5-3.9% of total. Our test results show that proviron works as advertised to free up bound testosterone