TRT or PCT

[Badbury212]

So this is the big question for me right now. I'm trying to figure out my best options and here some people's opinions and advice on this. I'm 25 years old been cycling for a 3 years of and on. This last cycle I cruised for the first time for about 4 months and now I'm blasting again. I really didn't see much of a difference from cruising and PCT. Other then the fact that I crash so much quicker on pct. But on this last cruise about 2 months in I almost felt like I was off, I was on 200mg/w the entire 4 months with nothing but test C Watson. So Iv been contemplating just coming off for a good 4-6 months give my body a nice break see if I can reproduce my old boys downstairs back up and running. Each pct before that I failed to recover other then after the very first cycle. Yes I made the mistake of starting to early by taking advice from a gym rat instead of educating myself. But I'm wondering how long it may take to bounce back and if will be more productive to pct or less to just cruise. I don't mind injections, doesn't bother me. When I'm on tren(like now) I get all paranoid thoughts about being on forever and so on. So I'd like to hear some vets with some experience if possible


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[Montego]

So this is the big question for me right now. I'm trying to figure out my best options and here some people's opinions and advice on this. I'm 25 years old been cycling for a 3 years of and on. This last cycle I cruised for the first time for about 4 months and now I'm blasting again. I really didn't see much of a difference from cruising and PCT. Other then the fact that I crash so much quicker on pct. But on this last cruise about 2 months in I almost felt like I was off, I was on 200mg/w the entire 4 months with nothing but test C Watson. So Iv been contemplating just coming off for a good 4-6 months give my body a nice break see if I can reproduce my old boys downstairs back up and running. Each pct before that I failed to recover other then after the very first cycle. Yes I made the mistake of starting to early by taking advice from a gym rat instead of educating myself. But I'm wondering how long it may take to bounce back and if will be more productive to pct or less to just cruise. I don't mind injections, doesn't bother me. When I'm on tren(like now) I get all paranoid thoughts about being on forever and so on. So I'd like to hear some vets with some experience if possible


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Very long term commitment to go full cruise.

Take into account you MIGHT lose the ability to have kids. You will probably do enough damage to your endocrine system that you may never be able to recover your natural production to a "regular" level. Shots into your 50s or 60s.

That's a big decision at 25 if you had regular production when you started.

I started TRT at 26 but, my natural levels were 110.

 

[Badbury212]

Very long term commitment to go full cruise.

Take into account you MIGHT lose the ability to have kids. You will probably do enough damage to your endocrine system that you may never be able to recover your natural production to a "regular" level. Shots into your 50s or 60s.

That's a big decision at 25 if you had regular production when you started.

I started TRT at 26 but, my natural levels were 110.

So my wife an I actually want to start trying to have another one. You think if I went off for a good amount of time, that I may bounce back?


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[Montego]

So my wife an I actually want to start trying to have another one. You think if I went off for a good amount of time, that I may bounce back?


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My honest opinion, I do not think that being on will disable you from having kids. I know quite a few guys who have had kids on cycle as well as guys who have been on a long time.

If you are serious about having another kid though, I would be better safe then sorry and come totally off with a long full pct including hcg treatment as well.

That is no guarantee in itself but, it might be a better chance.

 

[Badbury212]

My honest opinion, I do not think that being on will disable you from having kids. I know quite a few guys who have had kids on cycle as well as guys who have been on a long time.

If you are serious about having another kid though, I would be better safe then sorry and come totally off with a long full pct including hcg treatment as well.

That is no guarantee in itself but, it might be a better chance.

Yea that's what Iv been thinking lately but every time I try to freaking pct I fuck it up some how and crash hard as fuck. I always buy pharm grade everything but either overdue doses or under dose it or whatever happens it never goes good


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[GrilledCheddar]

Very long term commitment to go full cruise.

Take into account you MIGHT lose the ability to have kids. You will probably do enough damage to your endocrine system that you may never be able to recover your natural production to a "regular" level. Shots into your 50s or 60s.

That's a big decision at 25 if you had regular production when you started.

I started TRT at 26 but, my natural levels were 110.

You depressed me so much in this comment lol


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[GrilledCheddar]

OP see what's up coming off, you have I are almost the same on how we did everything except I just a tad bit older. I was very upset with my blood work over two months of being off and after running a pct with hcg. Though looking back I really do not believe a 3-4 week pct is "aggressive" enough for someone trying to come back after several years of use off and on. Some guys do talk about blasting hcg while cruising so that's an option you can try in the future for the kid if coming completely off is miserable.

Ps. My test levels were 150 after that pct and all


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[Badbury212]

OP see what's up coming off, you have I are almost the same on how we did everything except I just a tad bit older. I was very upset with my blood work over two months of being off and after running a pct with hcg. Though looking back I really do not believe a 3-4 week pct is "aggressive" enough for someone trying to come back after several years of use off and on. Some guys do talk about blasting hcg while cruising so that's an option you can try in the future for the kid if coming completely off is miserable.

Ps. My test levels were 150 after that pct and all


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Yea every time I come off I crash so bad, my second to last one was 96 it was super super bad, and I didn't a four week pct and blasted like 5 bottles of hcg. I usually get to about 3 months and then I just say fuck it and go back on.


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[GrilledCheddar]

Yea every time I come off I crash so bad, my second to last one was 96 it was super super bad, and I didn't a four week pct and blasted like 5 bottles of hcg. I usually get to about 3 months and then I just say fuck it and go back on.


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I just don't see the point in punishing yourself by continuing to stay off if after months your still in double digits or even low triple digits. That's my thought on it. Plus I see the write ups on what low T can do to your health over long periods of time and I don't think it's worth it. My dad and both uncles on mom and dads side have been on trt for a while. It just doesn't really bother me. But, I want kids so that my fear. All apart of the lifestyle choice though.


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[bigbal2943]

Sperm zero after 6 months off

https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?ur...&share_tid=58942&share_fid=66963&share_type=t

Come off and read my thread so you don't make the same mistake

This whole idea of being able to blast and cruise, then 3 months off and you'll have sperm is crap. Learn from my mistake. I've been off for about 14 months trying to conceive because I did what your talking about.

If your going to stay on freeze your sperm now or fully embrace the "i told you so" that you have coming your way.

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[DsEq194]

I just don't see the point in punishing yourself by continuing to stay off if after months your still in double digits or even low triple digits. That's my thought on it. Plus I see the write ups on what low T can do to your health over long periods of time and I don't think it's worth it. My dad and both uncles on mom and dads side have been on trt for a while. It just doesn't really bother me. But, I want kids so that my fear. All apart of the lifestyle choice though.


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If you want kids get off. I've been on for 6 months and doubt I'll be able to conceive for a couple years with therapy. I'm about to come off for a check up on baseline. I may jump back on after 4 months depends on how miserable I am, I had low to going into this and I just can't picture that feeling anymore....

Ignore the random name, you can call me daddy

 

[DsEq194]

Very long term commitment to go full cruise.

Take into account you MIGHT lose the ability to have kids. You will probably do enough damage to your endocrine system that you may never be able to recover your natural production to a "regular" level. Shots into your 50s or 60s.

That's a big decision at 25 if you had regular production when you started.

I started TRT at 26 but, my natural levels were 110.

Damn Monty I wasn't quite that low when I jumped on but I'm only 26 and am afraid to feel that low t again. Doc is pretty much demanding it however so I'll give it a good 4 months before I let the pain change my mind.

Best of luck op, my pct is 6 to 8 weeks with hcg leading in.

Ignore the random name, you can call me daddy

 

[GrilledCheddar]

If you want kids get off. I've been on for 6 months and doubt I'll be able to conceive for a couple years with therapy. I'm about to come off for a check up on baseline. I may jump back on after 4 months depends on how miserable I am, I had low to going into this and I just can't picture that feeling anymore....

Ignore the random name, you can call me daddy

150 test levels suck too much. I've got some fertility people talking to me about things. May even try for a bit in the future while on trt with some other drugs.


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[Badbury212]

Yea definitely agreed last time I came off my T was like 90 something. And I was off 4 months with a super hero PCT and couldn't stand feeling like that so I jumped right back on. My biggest issue right now is getting some quality hcg and not from the camel jockies in India.


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[chocolatemalt]

You need frequent bloodwork, like every 2-4 wks while going through PCT and deciding if it "worked". Might be that you're beyond that point already and can never get decent natty levels again... anything below 500 IMO.

There's a lot of evidence that 4 wks PCT is much too short for many users, especially multi-cycle veterans or older guys whose HPTA isn't going to bounce back quickly.

Also, dropping AI or HCG too fast during or before PCT will definitely cause a horrible T crash and E2 spike... rough recovery. Was that a possible factor with your crashes?

You could try an AI or SERM therapy approach to going "natty" since it's almost the same -- just supercharges your normal HPTA into overdrive, if it's capable. More LH and FSH, and more T. Should make off cycle far better and boost fertility to boot. To me, this sort of "TRT" is nothing like traditional exogenous T since it does the opposite of shutting you down and causing atrophy.

All the stories I've seen of people going sterile after long stretches of AAS use seem to involve no on-cycle HCG habits. My theory is that using a replacement dose (500-1000 IU/wk) at all times while being shutdown will avoid most fertility issues because your testes will never atrophy. There's no FSH signal but the LH mimic alone seems to be enough to keep them functional and sperm counts up.

 

[lewie562]

Well I am no expert on steroids but I have had my same experience for trt then making baby I stopped trt because she would not get preggo while on trust me we tried like 3 times a day lol so i quit and then took Clomid at 100mg a week for 1 week then 50mg for 3 weeks and yes by week 3 I felt like a beta male but I stuck with it cuz my wifey wanted another but long story short it took another 10 months for her to get preggo it's not that way for everyone but I was also taking 300 of hcg twice a week the whole time I was on trt so I still had balls hanging and still could not get her pregnant until not taking nothing just my experience and yes I lost a lot of strength and gained lots of fat gained but I did make another son so it's worth it just started back on trt dose with much excitement good luck brother but a short pct probably won't work just my 2 cents

 

[Tall Deck]

Very long term commitment to go full cruise.

Take into account you MIGHT lose the ability to have kids. You will probably do enough damage to your endocrine system that you may never be able to recover your natural production to a "regular" level. Shots into your 50s or 60s.

That's a big decision at 25 if you had regular production when you started.

I started TRT at 26 but, my natural levels were 110.

This^ is wisdom speaking. The BEST post in this entire thread. If I were running things around here, this one post would be made a sticky thread.

Sperm zero after 6 months off

https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?ur...&share_tid=58942&share_fid=66963&share_type=t

Come off and read my thread so you don't make the same mistake

This whole idea of being able to blast and cruise, then 3 months off and you'll have sperm is crap. Learn from my mistake. I've been off for about 14 months trying to conceive because I did what your talking about.

If your going to stay on freeze your sperm now or fully embrace the "i told you so" that you have coming your way.

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Another great post here^....thank you for your honesty...BRAVO!

 

[Tall Deck]

You need frequent bloodwork, like every 2-4 wks while going through PCT and deciding if it "worked".

There's a lot of evidence that 4 wks PCT is much too short for many users, especially multi-cycle veterans or older guys whose HPTA isn't going to bounce back quickly.

Also, dropping AI or HCG too fast during or before PCT will definitely cause a horrible T crash and E2 spike... rough recovery. Was that a possible factor with your crashes?

You could try an AI or SERM therapy approach to going "natty" since it's almost the same -- just supercharges your normal HPTA into overdrive, if it's capable. More LH and FSH, and more T. Should make off cycle far better and boost fertility to boot. To me, this sort of "TRT" is nothing like traditional exogenous T since it does the opposite of shutting you down and causing atrophy.

All the stories I've seen of people going sterile after long stretches of AAS use seem to involve no on-cycle HCG habits. My theory is that using a replacement dose (500-1000 IU/wk) at all times while being shutdown will avoid most fertility issues because your testes will never atrophy. There's no FSH signal but the LH mimic alone seems to be enough to keep them functional and sperm counts up.

I think that the lenghty cycle durations of most AAS users these days is the biggest culprit. The one time I went past my usual 8 week AAS cycle duration, (which was the one time I extended it to 16 weeks) I suffered the most side effects of any cycle I've ever done period. Those side effects included post cycle gyno, and a very lengthy recovery period. I thought my boy would be numb and limp for the rest of my life despite the 6 week PCT I did. After many months, my joint was finally working again.

Since then, my game plan has always been to limit my gear cycles to an 8 week duration, and than take atleast 8 to 16 weeks off. This stuff just isn't worth permanent damage to my endocrine system. And I would feel even more adament about that approach if I were still in my 20's or even in my 30's.

 

[Badbury212]

You need frequent bloodwork, like every 2-4 wks while going through PCT and deciding if it "worked". Might be that you're beyond that point already and can never get decent natty levels again... anything below 500 IMO.

There's a lot of evidence that 4 wks PCT is much too short for many users, especially multi-cycle veterans or older guys whose HPTA isn't going to bounce back quickly.

Also, dropping AI or HCG too fast during or before PCT will definitely cause a horrible T crash and E2 spike... rough recovery. Was that a possible factor with your crashes?

You could try an AI or SERM therapy approach to going "natty" since it's almost the same -- just supercharges your normal HPTA into overdrive, if it's capable. More LH and FSH, and more T. Should make off cycle far better and boost fertility to boot. To me, this sort of "TRT" is nothing like traditional exogenous T since it does the opposite of shutting you down and causing atrophy.

All the stories I've seen of people going sterile after long stretches of AAS use seem to involve no on-cycle HCG habits. My theory is that using a replacement dose (500-1000 IU/wk) at all times while being shutdown will avoid most fertility issues because your testes will never atrophy. There's no FSH signal but the LH mimic alone seems to be enough to keep them functional and sperm counts up.

Well what I have figured out is that an AI completely crashes me every time I even think about taking it. So I use the old method of taking nolvadex instead even tho it's not an AI it does the job for me and reduces the swelling and tenderness. I'm pretty sure Iv ran all my PCTS wrong and or stopped to quick and not Long enough.


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[Badbury212]

I need to find a solid source for some good hcg, Iv tried a few from the reliablerx and none have worked the way my German brand worked. But recently I have lost supply of that brand unfortunately


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