01, do you throw the vial out when you empty it? Wondering if you can refill the vial before it’s empty? Doesn’t sound like it should be done , but wanted your opinion. Thanks!
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My home brew L-Carnitine.....
- Thread starter 01dragonslayer
- Start date
If your are referring to the 'mixing' vial....I have reused it but it needs to be properly cleaned prior to making another batch. I will only reused the 'mixing' vial once or twice at max.
hopefultogrow
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Tried mixing a solution of
25g of carnitine base
5g of arginine hcl
5g of citrulline
5g of ornithine
.5ml of ba
distill water until i hit 50ml of total volume solution (dont really remember how much)
and it came out to be milky white white. not cloudy, but pure milk white. i never had or saw this mixture(tri-amino blend+carnitiine), i thought the blend would be clear transparent liquid. tossed it, tried again. same results. Am i wrong into thinking this should be a clear liquid?
frustrated with my effort. rinsed my beaker. and just brewed a
30g of carnitine
.5 ba
fill rest with distilled water to hit 50ml total solution.
filter through vial
if i did my math right that should be 600mg/ml
left it in the fridge and see if it holds up tomorrow.
my question is what do you think could have possibly went wrong, with my tri-amino+carnitine blend.
here are the products i used:
bulk supplements l carnitine base powder
https://www.amazon.com/L-Citrulline-Powder-BulkSupplements-500-Grams/dp/B00NBCVVW0
https://www.amazon.com/BulkSupplements-L-Arginine-HCL-Powder-Kilogram/dp/B00NAKBOFC
https://www.amazon.com/NOW-Sports-Ornithine-Powder-8-Ounce/dp/B0013OUQA6?th=1
i really want to brew this blend. please tell me what i could have done differently? granted i wont make another brew until i finish using the one i just made if it holds. but still. better to be prepared in advance. please tell me it was not suppose to be a milky white solution.
is it possible its the ornithine?
25g of carnitine base
5g of arginine hcl
5g of citrulline
5g of ornithine
.5ml of ba
distill water until i hit 50ml of total volume solution (dont really remember how much)
and it came out to be milky white white. not cloudy, but pure milk white. i never had or saw this mixture(tri-amino blend+carnitiine), i thought the blend would be clear transparent liquid. tossed it, tried again. same results. Am i wrong into thinking this should be a clear liquid?
frustrated with my effort. rinsed my beaker. and just brewed a
30g of carnitine
.5 ba
fill rest with distilled water to hit 50ml total solution.
filter through vial
if i did my math right that should be 600mg/ml
left it in the fridge and see if it holds up tomorrow.
my question is what do you think could have possibly went wrong, with my tri-amino+carnitine blend.
here are the products i used:
bulk supplements l carnitine base powder
https://www.amazon.com/L-Citrulline-Powder-BulkSupplements-500-Grams/dp/B00NBCVVW0
https://www.amazon.com/BulkSupplements-L-Arginine-HCL-Powder-Kilogram/dp/B00NAKBOFC
https://www.amazon.com/NOW-Sports-Ornithine-Powder-8-Ounce/dp/B0013OUQA6?th=1
i really want to brew this blend. please tell me what i could have done differently? granted i wont make another brew until i finish using the one i just made if it holds. but still. better to be prepared in advance. please tell me it was not suppose to be a milky white solution.
is it possible its the ornithine?
Wish I could help, but it’s something I’d like to start using, hopefully you can get some answers.
Never brewed this combo before. I know there are some combos that will sometimes do this and will never come out clear.
I tried brewing a MIC blend and could never really get it to come out clear. It may have been the quality of powder....I don't know for sure. I will try again sometime but will change my raw supplier in hopes that was the issue.
Lets start simple. When did you add your BA?
theseeker385
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Ive done a similar blend with 8 aminos/ingredients. You will have to do one at a time, until it goes clear, preferably with a hotplate/stirplate combo so you can keep it warm, and spinning constantly
Some of the aminos/ingredients may react with each other while they're suspended before they dissolve, creating secondary byproducts which is why I say go one at a time. I also found that pH is important for some aminos to dissolve properly and some can greatly impact the pH (ex: NAC is almost 0pH, Arginine HCL is almost 14pH)
Doing small batches also makes it harder with high/low pH ingredients like Arginine HCL; I had issues with 20 & 50ml attempts but able to do 100 just fine, it took me 5 batches to get mine right and a repeatable process.
If I were to attempt that I would start with ~2/3 the volume of water you are going for, slowly add one ingredient at a time, I would do Carnitine last
You also may want to adjust pH with HCL or NaOH depending if you need up or down to get close to 6-8 to make sure the next ingredient can dissolve properly
Then top off with the needed amount to make your total desired volume
Mine did not include Ornithine but had all the others, plus 5 additional, so tbh you should be able to get that into solution with enough trial and error
hopefultogrow
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i was using a 50ml beaker, i first added carnitine powder, and realized there won't be any room for the other aminos (the volume of powder was close to filling the beaker), so i added distilled water and mixed to free some room.
I honestly dont remember when i added the BA, i think it was right after mixing the distilled water with the carnitine.
Does the really make a difference? since im new to brewing, when is it best to add the BA?
i can say the carnitine brew i made. held up and i injected 1ml to shoulder. should've done thigh. no burning sensation. slight pain. and some soreness.
tested ph using strips. and it looks like it has a ph of 10. Does that sound too high? is it safe to inject with that ph level?
i was debating whether to get a combo hotplate/stirplate or each separately. i regrettably chose the latter.
for future brewing i know i will need to get bigger size beaker.
hopefully not getting the combo wont be too much of a nuisance between me constantly moving the beaker from one plate to the next.
i will say i dont think when i attempted my mixture i waited for the powders to dissolve before adding the other aminos. so that could definitely be it.
as for adjusting ph levels. can you please provide links for HCL or NaOH products to purchase? preferably amazon. i am completely new to this. and this adds another point on is it really worth the risk of brewing, but then i look at the price of how much the finished products costs. and just say go for it.
do you use ph strips or a digital reader?
is making a large batch safe in terms of long term storage?
and thanks for the advise of starting with the volume of water. based on my experience yesterday. thats something i wish i did(other than using a larger size beaker).
so if i were to make a 100ml solution. put 60-65ml of distilled water first in the empty beaker and than add powder(1 amino at a time until completely dissolved). what about BA?
is there a standard practice of when you add this?
im curious to know what your brew/recipe is. and in what order you mix your powders.
as i said in an earlier comment. This is a great thread, one of the best ive seen so far regarding homebrewing. started almost 3 years ago, and OP still around providing insight and guidance, while other users contributing massively as well.
01dragonslayer &
theseeker385
Thank you. You guys have been really helpful.
theseeker385
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NaOH, if pH is low(acidic) and needs to be raised
HCL, if pH is high(basic) and needs to come down
I'm not sure the pH that ornithine in water will be but arginine being 14, if you get one id suggest HCL, wear gloves and be careful HCL is a powerful acid. You need very little to make changes, start with drops at a time, and don't add it while you still see floaters, it can oxidize the powders if they're not dissolved
Generally you don't need to adjust, like iirc 01Dragonslayer doesn't adjust pH and has no pip on his carnitine, but if you're doing something with aminos that push the pH out of the 5.5-9.5 range it might cause some discomfort, or might cause other aminos to not be able to dissolve properly
I just use pH strips, they're accurate enough for me: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B079K71HJM
If you do get pip, and it's not virgin muscle, try getting the pH closer to 7, which is neutral. I have no issues with 6-9 personally but every one will be different
I also have a hot plate stirrer: https://a.co/d/fe3s4bE, this ones higher end but awesome if it's in your price range, if not there are cheaper ones out there
I do my BA first before anything else, and I make sure the water is luke warm and that it fully mixes before I start anything else
If I were to try your blend I would do in this order
BA
ornithine
citrulline
arginine
carnitine
Shelf life of this stuff is pretty long, and if you store excess in the fridge it will last longer. From a manufacturer I've been told they claim 2 years shelf life for inj carnitine so I wouldn't worry about it
Good luck man, will probably be trial and error to see if you can get it to work. The hardest thing for me was patience lol
HCL, if pH is high(basic) and needs to come down
I'm not sure the pH that ornithine in water will be but arginine being 14, if you get one id suggest HCL, wear gloves and be careful HCL is a powerful acid. You need very little to make changes, start with drops at a time, and don't add it while you still see floaters, it can oxidize the powders if they're not dissolved
Generally you don't need to adjust, like iirc 01Dragonslayer doesn't adjust pH and has no pip on his carnitine, but if you're doing something with aminos that push the pH out of the 5.5-9.5 range it might cause some discomfort, or might cause other aminos to not be able to dissolve properly
I just use pH strips, they're accurate enough for me: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B079K71HJM
If you do get pip, and it's not virgin muscle, try getting the pH closer to 7, which is neutral. I have no issues with 6-9 personally but every one will be different
I also have a hot plate stirrer: https://a.co/d/fe3s4bE, this ones higher end but awesome if it's in your price range, if not there are cheaper ones out there
I do my BA first before anything else, and I make sure the water is luke warm and that it fully mixes before I start anything else
If I were to try your blend I would do in this order
BA
ornithine
citrulline
arginine
carnitine
Shelf life of this stuff is pretty long, and if you store excess in the fridge it will last longer. From a manufacturer I've been told they claim 2 years shelf life for inj carnitine so I wouldn't worry about it
Good luck man, will probably be trial and error to see if you can get it to work. The hardest thing for me was patience lol
hopefultogrow
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Im concerned with having that much HCL laying around.
What are your thoughts on using distilled white vinegar or citric acid instead to lower ph? and baking soda to make it higher (although as you said, i do think the problem will be that the solution will be too basic)?
By the way, every mixture i've seen that involves arginine, is arginine hcl. Was wondering have you ever used pure arginine powder. i have both forms and had use hcl form in my failed attempt. but my base arginine powder is pharma grade. and was wondering if there's any way i can use that instead.
What are your thoughts on using distilled white vinegar or citric acid instead to lower ph? and baking soda to make it higher (although as you said, i do think the problem will be that the solution will be too basic)?
By the way, every mixture i've seen that involves arginine, is arginine hcl. Was wondering have you ever used pure arginine powder. i have both forms and had use hcl form in my failed attempt. but my base arginine powder is pharma grade. and was wondering if there's any way i can use that instead.
theseeker385
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Concerned about what? I tried citric acid in a small batch of carnitine, and it messed up my lat for 2 weeks even though the pH was perfectly 7
I would not personally use either vinegar or citric acid. You can possibly do it with out adjusting the pH at all, but idk
I wasn't able to find non hcl arginine, but if you have it that would be less pH b.s. to deal with, it could possibly work
I would not personally use either vinegar or citric acid. You can possibly do it with out adjusting the pH at all, but idk
I wasn't able to find non hcl arginine, but if you have it that would be less pH b.s. to deal with, it could possibly work
I have tested this several times. Do not heat your sterile/distilled water after adding your BA. This will make your solution cloudy. Always add your BA after heating your sterile/distilled water. Heating your water to boiling, 212 F, makes your distilled water sterile.
Here are other possibilities that I can hypothesize. Your powder quality?....and the possibility that it's a little too much to suspend.....there are some raws that just will not come out clear.
Just to add like @theseeker385 mentioned above, adjusting the pH really is a non factor in terms of keeping quality....more for just a personal reason. I brewed countless batches of Lcarn and never once needed to adjust pH.
My happy little family.......
Do you add any buffers to it or just use water and ba? I assume using straight up bac water gives the same outcome?
I did that combo yesterday and it was a complete disaster! I gave up! I have a GAC recipe that came out flawless if you like I can share it.
No buffers. I know some that do add that but I've never had the need to.
I make my own Bac H2O(sterile water and your BA)
Lordallmighty
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Is it true that carbs with the injection is a must? im doing low carb and im fasting during all my morning injections. is the effect really that big with or without carbs?
How happy is everyone with the energy increase? tought everyone had a big spike but i see alot of comments from guys barley getting an increase (reddit)
How happy is everyone with the energy increase? tought everyone had a big spike but i see alot of comments from guys barley getting an increase (reddit)
So I just started the lcarn Sunday and use it in the morning at 5 am and idk if its juts a coincidence or what but at night im sweating way too much! Definitely working!
theseeker385
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To my understanding the carbs with injection are more for the "loading phase", which I'm not sure is even necessary. The thought behind it is L-carn is shuttled into the muscle via insulin (I believe) so the thought is, spike insulin, inject, and it will get more into the muscle during that first week or two, then once you're "saturated" it doesn't really need the insulin spike, as its highly bio-available and just replenishing what was used.
Again, I'm not sure that is necessary, just explaining that thought process of the loading phase. I did it, but it worked with my diet and training, so figured why not.
Honestly I feel at the beginning it can be noticeable, but at this point I do not really notice anything after almost a year. However, its working at the cellular level, so what does it matter? "Feeling" a drug doesn't mean its working any better/worse most of the time.
Within the year of taking it what changes have you seen?
Once in your blood stream the carnitine needs a transporter into your cells. It does not necessarily need carbohydrates....it needs insulin. The fast acting carbs create the insulin spine needed for transport.
theseeker385
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I don't know if I can correlate any specific changes to L-Carn directly, as so many things changed in the last year, from dropping a good bit of fat, getting on TRT, etc.
But in that time, when I introduced it, I noticed cardio was easier, BP and HR was directly affected, I had my BP drop by 5-10 points on average just after introducing it (nothing else introduced at that time) and my HR was no longer getting super high during cardio
I guess I could say I felt some more endurance and a bit of cognitive improvements from it, but who knows. At the end of the day, we know L-Carn is beneficial so I just take it now lol part of the routine
So if we dont use insulin is it useless?
theseeker385
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No, but more will be shuttled into the muscle if you have an insulin spike. You do not need exogenous insulin, you can just take fast acting carbs with/prior to your shot.
I wouldn't say it's completely useless but it's optimal that is has a transport carrier that helps the L-carn shuttle into the cell. I have researched that the carrier is only needed during the 'loading' or 'saturation' phase....anywhere from 1-2 weeks.
As stated above...exogenous insulin is not needed to create the spike. It can be done with fast activation carbohydrates.
When I first started pinning LC I’d eat something like dried fruit and pin about 15 min. Or so after eating,did it for two weeks then stopped.
Lordallmighty
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Do you think other transporters are possible, like using red light therapy/fulvic acid/MSM?
MSM for example (and specially fulvic acid) helps vitamins/minerals/aminos to be transported into cells. taking MSM with vitamin c for example makes vitamin C closer to a injection then oral
Maby carnitine could be the same or do it necessarily need to be insulin?
That is an awesome question. Unfortunately I cannot give a good answer on that. This is something I will need to research.
I've read that its been shown to have potential for preventing chronic inflammatory diseases like diabetes. It also shows potential with neurodegenerative disorders because it may interfere with the buildup of proteins that speed up the development of brain diseases like Alzheimer’s disease.
It could increase oxidative damage at higher doses and have an adverse effect on your immune system, too.
How would this act as a transporter to shuttle from the bloodstream into the cells?
Andrewgen_Receptors
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I thought this was mostly related to oral l-car, not injection form?
I haven't read heavily into the subject, I just know I love l-car.
Do you think the carrier is not needed past the loading phase?
Hey my friend. The oral bioavailability of L Carn is miserable....any where between 5 to 25%. Mega dosing oral L Carn is sometimes needed for the desired dose to be absorbed. Yes.....you are correct. An insulin spike is needed when taking it orally as well.
After the loading phase, you can maintain adequate muscle carnitine levels with a lower, ongoing intake, potentially still benefiting from the insulin-mediated uptake when taken with carbohydrates.
govertical19
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To make this much you just change the amount x4?
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