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My gut always told me never fuck with EQ and it was right

BTC

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Get Shredded!
EQ as we know builds rbc and hematocrit like no other. Ive run 1200mg test 400 deca, slin, gh ect NEVER ever had a problem. Gave EQ a try 6 weeks ago. Granted jumping in at 800... ehhh...
We all know 6 weeks is the magic mark for EQ. Well at week 6, i start to get a crazy toothache in my low left molar. I think great just what i need. Then it gets worse. Like into my jaw. Then after a couple days im getting this crazy searing pain in my left jaw that comes and goes and i swear... it was so bad that during a spike if you handed me a gun id have shot myself to get rid of the pain. 1-10 the pain was a 25. My bp was suddenly not 120/68 it was 160/100 like that. So, i take 1 1/3 pint of blood out of myself and it makes zero difference. Not good. Two and a half days of these unreal pain spikes. Lose the blood wake up xmas day only my tooth hurts not my jaw. Ok little better. Good all day no spikes. 1am xmas night comes back all night. Start doing some research and... left severe mandible pain can be a serious cardiac issue. Sweet. Palpitations out the ass during these spikes too (Im 45 btw been doing this 24 years off and on). Starting to get pins and needles in my left thumb and pointer finger. Anxiety? Maybe. I tell the wife we gotta go get this looked at now. Spent 4 hours in the ER they do the bloods multiple times, its not a cardiac issue. Ok, sweet. THAT is what i wanted to know. I think also identical issues are TMJ the jaw nerve issue thing that has no cure. My mother had it. Miserable life. Or.... just maybe it really was a deep tooth infection. This all came on just asc the EQ went boom and veins came out of no where so there's no telling me EQ didn't have something to do with this. They give me abx just to rule out the tooth. Fine.
I get home 20 minutes and suddenly ZERO pain in my jaw or tooth. What the actual fuck. Then it hits me... they pumped a giant bag of saline in me while i was there. So i hit google. A giant IV saline infusion will "drastically" reduce hematocrit. So i got basically a bag of blood thinner. Bingo... it was the EQ.
Still no pain. Another kit will be here in 2 days and I'll lose another pint of blood and all should be good.
AND... its not cardiac. However... i also find my creatinine was 1.5 and my gfr was 48. So I'll be calling it a day other than 200/300 mg of test from here on out. Been hanmering 4-6g astragalus a day for the last month as well.
I knew i shouldn't have fucked with EQ for 20+ years. Listen to your gut fellas.
 

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That sounds scary. I’m glad you figured out what was causing the issues.
 

REHH

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Better go see a kidney specialist, that's stage 3 level, could be permanent. Might be time to give up the lifestyle. I'm in the same boat. Gear and heavy training causes a state of Rabdomylosis which damages the kidneys over time as well as the higher blood pressure with gear use.
 

Bft84

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EQ isn’t inherently dangerous. It’s your abuse of all the drugs with your lifestyle that is the issue.
 

Montego

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Eq, the best bike chain lubricant money can buy
 

Glycomann

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EQ is a weird steroid. I think things really went sideways with this compound when the first UGLs decided to make it 200-300 mg/mL. Back in the 80s and 90s it was available at 50 mg/mL and we used 4-6 mL per week, so 200 to 300 mg/w. At that level people would match it with test at anywhere from 250 - 1000 mg/w. Back then Deca was in there too even more often than test. It worked as a hardener and sort of synergized with test so it seemed to give you more than an extra 200-300 mg of test with less side effects and more of a cosmetic yield.

Today you see posts like EQ at less than a gram a week for 20 weeks is a waste. That is very dangerous advice but common. This stuff is for horses. Horses have a specialized spleen that stores red cells. So when they sprint the spleen releases the extra red cells for high O2 consumption. So you can see where EQ would magnify this physiologic response. I have also heard from veterinarians, especially in the Mexican race circuits, that the owners/ trainers pump the shit out of EQ and the horses have dropped dead from overuse mid-race. So, as BBers we are using stuff that is 6x more concentrated as the licensed formula and wondering why such use is associated with super high hematocrit, erythrocytosis etc.

So how to use EQ for BBing? Well in my opinion it is used as an adjunct and not as a main anabolic in any cycle. 200-300 mg/w, for instance with Test and NPP etc. You have to try it to see if you like it and works for you. Blasting EQ is not a good idea. Seeing how this mess has evolved over decades, I can see it clearly. I can also see clearly that a lot of guys will see it as useless. OK, fair enough. Don't use EQ then especially if you feel you need a gram a week for 20+ weeks. It worked at low dose ranges 30 years ago. Maybe humans have not changed all that much and it still works without causing cardiac arrest if used as formulated.

Call me crazy,
G
 

CoachCabo

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Now imagine if you are like many of these guys, using five compounds they are unfamiliar with (relating to THEIR bodies) right out of the gate, then trying to determine and mitigate a problem like the OP’s.

As far as concentrations, I used to talk about this but no one listens; You couldn’t use crazy amounts of vet eq. I have used as much as 600mg/week in the last few years and 30 years ago that would have been 12cc/week!!! Same goes for tren, imo. When 76mg was all you could get…and they were EXPENSIVE, I didn’t know a single guy who used more than two amps per week, and that had some drawbacks other than cost. Now I see average gym Joes talking about 300mg/week of tren hex. You are GOING to have problems at that level. Problems that simply aren’t worth it.

I find eq useful. I never have had any problems with it. Not blood, no anxiety, nothing. But I know of many who cannot use it for those reasons.

Glad the OP sorted his problems.
 

Glycomann

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Now imagine if you are like many of these guys, using five compounds they are unfamiliar with (relating to THEIR bodies) right out of the gate, then trying to determine and mitigate a problem like the OP’s.

As far as concentrations, I used to talk about this but no one listens; You couldn’t use crazy amounts of vet eq. I have used as much as 600mg/week in the last few years and 30 years ago that would have been 12cc/week!!! Same goes for tren, imo. When 76mg was all you could get…and they were EXPENSIVE, I didn’t know a single guy who used more than two amps per week, and that had some drawbacks other than cost. Now I see average gym Joes talking about 300mg/week of tren hex. You are GOING to have problems at that level. Problems that simply aren’t worth it.

I find eq useful. I never have had any problems with it. Not blood, no anxiety, nothing. But I know of many who cannot use it for those reasons.

Glad the OP sorted his problems.

Wow we are from the same mold.
 

zionoir626

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There are compounds that can be tolerated much better the younger you are..I feel EQ is one..At 42, I was using it with Tren and Dbol...No Test..That was the best cycle ever and set all my PR's..

But a few yrs back I tried it again and the strain it put on my health markers wasn't funny..Now I'm with Mont..
 

BTC

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Better go see a kidney specialist, that's stage 3 level, could be permanent. Might be time to give up the lifestyle. I'm in the same boat. Gear and heavy training causes a state of Rabdomylosis which damages the kidneys over time as well as the higher blood pressure with gear use.

Well other than 300/400mg test I actually am done. I was crazy dehydrated yesterday too so that's a little of the creatinine. I'll be following Dante Trudel's kidney protocol. Just using astragalus alone he's brought guys back from double the creatinine i have. Mine used to be .8 but after a month of post surgery celebrex a decade ago its always been 1.3 .
There's a few kidney supps even Bostin Loyd has used that brought his from 9+ down to 7.8 which is a big deal for a guy in stage 5 almost to dialysis.
Once i get another pint of blood out and get a few more kidney supps going im confident it'll return to something reasonable.
But now the goal is just not looking like some dad bod jackass.
 

BTC

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Even with normal AAS use my RBC always tended to go higher than the average person.
 

BTC

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Eq, the best bike chain lubricant money can buy

Agreed

- - - Updated - - -

There are compounds that can be tolerated much better the younger you are..I feel EQ is one..At 42, I was using it with Tren and Dbol...No Test..That was the best cycle ever and set all my PR's..

But a few yrs back I tried it again and the strain it put on my health markers wasn't funny..Now I'm with Mont..

Absolutely. Even tren, while i hate it has never given me an issue the few times ive run it
 

BTC

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Well other than 300/400mg test I actually am done. I was crazy dehydrated yesterday too so that's a little of the creatinine. I'll be following Dante Trudel's kidney protocol. Just using astragalus alone he's brought guys back from double the creatinine i have. Mine used to be .8 but after a month of post surgery celebrex a decade ago its always been 1.3 .
There's a few kidney supps even Bostin Loyd has used that brought his from 9+ down to 7.8 which is a big deal for a guy in stage 5 almost to dialysis.
Once i get another pint of blood out and get a few more kidney supps going im confident it'll return to something reasonable.
But now the goal is just not looking like some dad bod jackass.

And even that 300/400mg test won't be until things are cleaned up. It's back to 150wk until that time
 

zionoir626

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Smart...
Over 40...risk becomes something we all have to deal with..the body will tell us when it's just had enough.. Whether we listen is entirely up to Us..
 

BTC

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Over 40...risk becomes something we all have to deal with..the body will tell us when it's just had enough.. Whether we listen is entirely up to Us..

Listening to your body and understanding what its trying to tell you has always been a thing. Always blew my mind that some guys are so oblivious to that while some guys just keep pushing forward through warning signs
 

Big Puppy

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quite frankly you seem to be handling this quite wrecklessly. What is your actual hematocrit? Doesn't sound like you got the results from the hospital. Did they diagnose you with high hematocrit? have you ran a ferritin level test ? Just dumping blood cause you think it's high is not right. And taking a bag of saline, although it definitely will lower the ratio, does not tell you where you're at. All of this is shooting from the hip. Not trying to be a dick. High crit is dangerous but dumping it without actual blood levels could lead to other problems also. All androgens increase RBC. A good way to do it is to go to the red cross every 3 or 4 months to establish a baseline of how quickly your body creates red blood cells. Then you'll also be able to tell how much a draw lowers your levels. I've even donated and then gotten a blood test 2 days later to see how far it dropped. Then when you hit the gas, at least you'll have an idea of what you previously were and then be able to somewhat guess how soon you need to go in. After you go in and donate again, you can document that for future reference.
 

Skip Foursome

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I never liked EQs profile, never seemed right especially as I get older.

It's good to experiment, but of all the compounds I have used EQ is one of very few I have not used.

Good job staying on top of your situation.
 

BTC

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quite frankly you seem to be handling this quite wrecklessly. What is your actual hematocrit? Doesn't sound like you got the results from the hospital. Did they diagnose you with high hematocrit? have you ran a ferritin level test ? Just dumping blood cause you think it's high is not right. And taking a bag of saline, although it definitely will lower the ratio, does not tell you where you're at. All of this is shooting from the hip. Not trying to be a dick. High crit is dangerous but dumping it without actual blood levels could lead to other problems also. All androgens increase RBC. A good way to do it is to go to the red cross every 3 or 4 months to establish a baseline of how quickly your body creates red blood cells. Then you'll also be able to tell how much a draw lowers your levels. I've even donated and then gotten a blood test 2 days later to see how far it dropped. Then when you hit the gas, at least you'll have an idea of what you previously were and then be able to somewhat guess how soon you need to go in. After you go in and donate again, you can document that for future reference.

I generally donate blood every 2 months. This isn't my first rodeo. Yeah i have the labs in my online hospital profile. I could donate blood every 4 weeks on gear if they let me. I dumped a pint because my bp went from 120/68 to 160/100 when EQ hit week 6. Even after losing a pint hemoglobin and hematocrit were still high. Walking around at 160/100 is more dangerous than dumping blood to reduce your bp. My whole point was AFTER the saline it told me it was the EQ that caused the problem and I'm still holding way too much blood. There's zero difference between me dumping blood mid cycle and going to donate mid cycle. I dumped the blood cause i was way overdue and my bp was high NOT because i thought my hematocrit was high. Which it is... still high. But not ridiculous. I easily could have and should have dumped 2 pints. Which is why I'll be losing another one in the next day or two.
 
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BTC

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The saline they gave me only proved to be a diagnostic tool for ME later on to pinpoint EQ. Im aware all AAS raise RBC. After 20+ years off and on I'd hope id at least learned a little. But even 1200mg test and 400mg deca with drol never came remotely close to anything like what the eq did. Even running those compounds my BP never cracked 140 on the top and maybe 78 on the bottom. BECAUSE im diligent about blood donation other than the last year.
 

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I agree you needed to dump blood. just never saw any blood numbers. not trying to get you mad, had you posted these details I wouldn't have commented. I see a lot of people, even "experienced veterans" doing weird stuff so I thought I'd comment before someone else gets the idea they can do what you're doing without actual evidence
 

zionoir626

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Get Shredded!
Like pointed out earlier..the only thing new in your cycle was the EQ...I totally advocate adding ONLY one new compound per cycle..So when something like this happens..you know where to look first..Adding 2 or 3 new compounds at one time is a fools mistake and a great recipe for disaster..

A very hard concept to new guys to understand..
 

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The jaw thing you're thinking of is trigeminal neuralgai. High BP can set it off.
 

BTC

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The jaw thing you're thinking of is trigeminal neuralgai. High BP can set it off.

Yes. My mother had that for the last 20 years of her life. We told her there are anti convulsion/anti seizure meds that are supposed to help and her take was oh no im not train those i don't want to get seizures... 😒😒
So you see what i was dealing with there.
Yeah my jaw pain is about a .5 on a scale of 1-10 and my tooth is much better. Feels more like its just residual shit from the days of trauma i dealt with. Once this EQ tapers away and i get rid of 1 more pint i expect it to improve dramatically
 

BTC

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Lost that second pint of blood last night. BP close to normal before bed. No more jaw or throbbing tooth pain. Feel pretty much normal this following morning. Unfazed by the blood draw still as far as the standard dizziness ect. So at least 2.25 pints of blood over what i should have been carrying. Even if i weren't calling it a day for gear id never touch EQ again. My son who's running it for the first time, we're keeping it at 400mg and letting it be a compliment to test and npp. I'll never have him run a higher dose than 400 and IF his next blood work is even remotely off with signs pointing to bullshit from the eq I'll never have him run it again.
Im sure pumping sludge blood through my kidneys for a bit was not doing my gfr and favors.
 

christiantt

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Like pointed out earlier..the only thing new in your cycle was the EQ...I totally advocate adding ONLY one new compound per cycle..So when something like this happens..you know where to look first..Adding 2 or 3 new compounds at one time is a fools mistake and a great recipe for disaster..

A very hard concept to new guys to understand..

Agree 100%. Flippant attitudes about adding new compounds on a whim is insane.
My first pin was age 37 in a trt clinic. About to turn 40 now. Since first pin, I have tried test/mas (X1), test/eq (X2), test/deca (X1). Never got crazy with the mg's per week, avg cycle length was 12wks, paid attention to what the knowledgable guys on the boards said, and generally played it safe and have had a lot of fun and made and kept great gains.

The idea of slamming multiple compounds, some new to me, in some exotic cycle is a no-go. Just speaking for myself and not for the more experienced guys/athletes.
Play it safe, stay on top of all precautionary measures and and for gods sakes pull the plug on a cycle or specific compounds if your body and health are having bad reactions.
 

Montego

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Someone needs to put this guy in line. Lol!


I wish I could take credit for this analogy but, @heavyiron came up with that one.... I just stole it
 

BTC

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Why it took so long to surface i have zero clue, but the jaw pain and the high bp from the eq were two separate issues. Together mimicking some real bad shit but turns out it wasn't. I have an abcess behind my back molar on the left side. There has been an infection there for a while. The high bp from the eq just exacerbated that infection pain.
The abcess came up, popped feels a million times better. No clue where it came from. Second pint of blood was drained, still felt nothing after but bp is back to normal.
 

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I like to donate double red blood cells before I start EQ. I really like EQ in cutting cycles because my blood pressure always gets slightly elevated. It's definitely probably one of the worst steroids ever but idk what it is I just love toxic relationships.
 

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I use to love EQ and ran big blast year round.... I had to donate every month... My anxiety was bonkers.......
BUT... I got super vascular, endurance was up there for a 290# guy... I just couldnt eat enough while on it either. Always hungry. worked like Deca on the joints......
Dont really miss the compound
 
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