Methadone vs. Suboxone

[AR-15]

Ok so one of my students admitted to me yesterday that he’s developed a pretty healthy opioid addiction. He’s 17 and pretty much has the normal inner city story. Father is a no show and his mother most likely brought him to me because for the same amount of money he can stay and train all day with me vs. an hour long class at the local joke Ta Kwon do school. He’s basically been my problem for the last 4 months. Which is fine because I’ve grown to care for this little dude. I want nothing but the best for him. I’m very familiar with opiate addiction because of my family and my path in life however the one thing I’m not up to speed on is methadone. He ask me whether he should try a suboxone doctor or go to a methadone clinic. Again I care about this guy. He has no body else to guide him so if any of you have any experience with the two I’d really appreciate some real responses so hopefully I can steer this kid in the right direction. I’m not sure if one is better than the other or if it’s just personal preference. I don’t think cost is an issue because I’d have to assume he’s on government insurance which from what I understand covers everything 100%. Anyway thanks in advance for any and all responses.

 

[Jbswole40]

Suboxone bro..
Methadone is so much more in different ways..from my point of view ( bcus I have done both yrs ago)..
If you want to stay fd up 24/7 get on methadone..
If you want to be a functional person and live a productive life suboxone..
I'm glad those days are behind me I'm completely off of opiates ,benzos,alcohol for yrs now..f that I don't miss it.it consumes every min of everyday

 

[GYMnTONIC]

I administered both, I never used either. The methadone, the users seemed to use as a crutch and then they would stay on after leaving the facility. Some of them would go to methadone clinics for years after, so I am not sure that is exactly "treatment", I find that to be an alternative and more tolerable "addiction". I can say the same for some of the meds I administered like adderall and ritalin for instance.
Those in my eyes are just acceptable and "legal" drug addictions. Funny how society is cool with those but not with others. And the false War on drugs.

I had much more success with patients who used suboxone. In fact many of them got super super sick and nauseated from it and never wanted to puke their brains out again and steered clear of opiates. Certainly it did not work for all the patients I saw use it.

I honestly saw more Percocet and Vicotin abuse then any other drug. And I had guys that were taking upwards of 20-30 5mg pills a day. Enough to kill a normal human immediately.
These guys developed a tolerance. I saw one guy burn through $500K in cash (savings) and eventually lose his business and all his tools to a percocet addiction. It started because he got injured on the job pretty bad and they started prescribing him 120 pills at a clip.

I blame the doctors and big pharma completely

Big Pharma is the biggest drug dealer on the planet and the FDA and the DEA are their backup muscle. They are all complicit.

Good luck with this kid.

 

[Jbswole40]

I administered both, I never used either. The methadone, the users seemed to use as a crutch and then they would stay on after leaving the facility. Some of them would go to methadone clinics for years after, so I am not sure that is exactly "treatment", I find that to be an alternative and more tolerable "addiction". I can say the same for some of the meds I administered like adderall and ritalin for instance.
Those in my eyes are just acceptable and "legal" drug addictions. Funny how society is cool with those but not with others. And the false War on drugs.

I had much more success with patients who used suboxone. In fact many of them got super super sick and nauseated from it and never wanted to puke their brains out again and steered clear of opiates. Certainly it did not work for all the patients I saw use it.

I honestly saw more Percocet and Vicotin abuse then any other drug. And I had guys that were taking upwards of 20-30 5mg pills a day. Enough to kill a normal human immediately.
These guys developed a tolerance. I saw one guy burn through $500K in cash (savings) and eventually lose his business and all his tools to a percocet addiction. It started because he got injured on the job pretty bad and they started prescribing him 120 pills at a clip.

I blame the doctors and big pharma completely

Big Pharma is the biggest drug dealer on the planet and the FDA and the DEA are their backup muscle. They are all complicit.

Good luck with this kid.

Great post..this is all correct..
Precipitated withdrawal is what is called.u take opiate while on sub..u won't feel much of anything, now when you use opiates and do not wait until u r in withdrawal and take sub,it's 10x worse..f that life..these guys should get it together..I detoxed in jail no help ,it was brutal.but I never touched an opiate again

 

[CoachCabo]

Cold turkey man. He’s 17, so what a great age for a test of one’s mettle. It sucks but totally doable. The other way is slowly weaning off. But then he risks getting that one “hot shot” that kills him like so many nowadays.

 

[GYMnTONIC]

Great post..this is all correct..
Precipitated withdrawal is what is called.u take opiate while on sub..u won't feel much of anything, now when you use opiates and do not wait until u r in withdrawal and take sub,it's 10x worse..f that life..these guys should get it together..I detoxed in jail no help ,it was brutal.but I never touched an opiate again

I saw a guy in jail withdrawing from opiates. He slept the first 2 days he came in. He puked for the next day or so when he woke up. He was bright yellow. Everyone called him Bart Simpson. I mean he was literally YELLOW head to toe from liver failure. It was very sad to see, I have never seen someone that yellow before except for photos of a man who died from overdosing on DNP.

Glad you kicked it sir. Very happy to hear it. 2 of my very good friends are addicted to opiates. One is currently in in-patient rehab as we speak

 

[Halfi]

Personal opinion here being a junkie my self… both of those drugs are highly addictive them selves and give u the opiate high to an extent… the withdraw from both of those drugs when you don’t have them are far worse then herion or any other opiate withdraw…

My opinion tell him to go to a rehab for detox. If he wants to be clean hel stay clean. Long term inpatient (90 days+) is the best route for an addict… the longer you’re away from it the clearer your mind gets. . Hope it works out for him

 

[Powerhousehb]

Suboxone is the way to go. It's what I used. It was a life saver. I had developed a huge opioid addiction. 2 years later I was off suboxobe and clean. .

 

[Powerhousehb]

Fuck methadone!!!

Many of us come and go from this forum due to injuries and so on as I did. I made the mistake of listening to my doc 2 years ago and said oh yea no pain sounds great!! I will tell you from experience pain is a blessing in life rather than a burden. I’m now 2 weeks clean off down from 60mg a day...

www.anabolicsteroidforums.com

 

[AR-15]

Wow thanks for all the insightful replies. I can’t thank you guys enough. PHB thank you for taking the time to dig that old thread up. I never even thought to do that. Props to all you guys that kicked the opiates too. I’ve done my fair share of Oxys and Opana’s to get through some injuries in order to keep training but for whatever reason I never had to go through the withdrawal. Believe me I’m not complaining cause I’ve seen grown men cry withdrawing from that shit. Anyway thanks again guys. I definitely owe you all one.

 

[MBW212]

Double edged sword both of them , no matter which one you take you develop a dependency….. subs you have to wait , they say 24 hours but I’ve seen even 48 hours and people take one and get thrown right into precipitated withdrawal, which is worse then regular withdrawal, methadone no waiting but that shit gets in your bones, ruins your teeth…. Both have their hood points and bad

 

[hoyle21]

Suboxone is clinically superior, it’s also a tad safer, but honestly at 17, he should go cold turkey.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Truckertrash]

Suboxone is basically the new methadone. I'm in recovery, been clean almost 10 years. My suggestion is for rehab, aa, na, etc..Freedom from active addiction will only occur from complete abstinence. I wish this young man the best. I've unfortunately seen far too many that have died from this disease. My best friend was one of them. Couldn't kick a pill habit. Died while I was trying to get him a bed at an inpatient treatment facility

 

[Ziath11]

Hard thing about that age is longevity because he’s most likely gonna have to abstain from all mind altering substances. I got sober relatively young and it makes things difficult when you can’t do what everyone else your age is doing. But sounds like he’s got a great role model and looks up to you. I’m wishing the best for him.

 

[Truckertrash]

Hard thing about that age is longevity because he’s most likely gonna have to abstain from all mind altering substances. I got sober relatively young and it makes things difficult when you can’t do what everyone else your age is doing. But sounds like he’s got a great role model and looks up to you. I’m wishing the best for him.

Agreed, the age factor is a tough obstacle to overcome

 

[Cpillar2019]

I spent years chasing my fix during the middle of the oxy wave in the late 90’s/early 2000’s. At the height of my addiction I was roughly the same age as your client and spent the week prior to HS graduation in a hospital detox. Unfortunately, that was the first of many detox intakes before I ever got clean. Suboxone wasn’t really around at that time and I eventually graduated to self-prescribed methadone. Methadone for me was cheaper and helped me function (somewhat). From that experience, I wouldn’t suggest a methadone clinic. Periods of alertness followed by the opioid nods and a more intense withdrawal was all I got from it. It was something that got me a fix, that would last all day, and it meant that I wouldn’t have to be out running and gunning to get the next. Using low dose methadone for a 5-7 day detox from opioids in an inpatient setting may be beneficial, but that’s as far as I’d take it. Regarding suboxone, I can’t give much insight. At the end of the day it still comes down to “have you had enough” and are you willing to do whatever it takes to stay sober. Which inevitably means that a person must change everything about their life. People, places, things. I won’t blast anyone if something works for them, but I know what wouldn’t work for me. At best, he gets sober and gets to enjoy the freedom of life. At worst, the methods you mentioned gives him a reprieve and mixed with a little recovery, he’ll never have an enjoyable high again because he’s knows there’s a better way. God bless and good luck to you and your friend. Hope he can find some freedom and restoration.

 

[AR-15]

So I spent most of the day yesterday calling all the local rehabs and some far away ones to see if any of them would take him. I thought about the cold Turkey way but Heroin is too easy for this kid to get. He would cave in a few days if he was doing it at home. Anyway I was right he is on government insurance so from what I understand they will pay 100% for him to do up to a 7 day detox and then a 30 day inpatient rehab. Maybe not exactly like that but I’m pretty sure I’m close. Luckily the one rehab that was rated 5 stars is supposed to call him back today as soon as a bed opens up. My biggest concern is just getting him there. It really should be his mom taking him but whatever I gotta do I guess. She’s on board but just doesn’t seem to be 100% on board if that makes any sense. I figure once he’s in there the rest will be up to him. This particular rehab uses a taper down system with Suboxone. There is no methadone alternative which I’m super glad about. All the horror stories definitely makes me think that Suboxone is definitely the lesser of two evils when compared to methadone. I feel bad I can’t offer the kid anything other than information at this point but hopefully, thanks to all of you guys, he can take everything I told him and use it to get clean and to stay clean. Now that I’m aware he’s using I’m pretty sure I’ll be able to tell if he fucks up once he gets out. His biggest fear right now is going through the withdrawal. I had to give him tough love there. I told him he got himself into this mess and it’s not gonna be easy but he’s just gonna have to man up and get through it. It’s either that or die in some crack house with a needle hanging out of his arm. Thanks again to everyone that responded. I really really appreciate the time spent.

 

[zionoir626]

Sounds like this friendship is helping both of You..
Parents these days suck..
Don't mind making them, but no responsibility afterwards..
You're a good Man for taking charge and helping Him..

If,you did what you wanted to awhile back, he wouldn't have the Chance You're giving him..Now..
You know what I'm talking about..!!

Damn AR..
Very proud of You..
Even Prouder to call you my Friend..
When you see stuff like this..
It makes the shit we're dealing with, seem like Nothing..

I'm not a Bible thumper..
But..God puts people in our path..
People That change our lives..
Often at the Very Moment we've lost Hope..
I know this..
Because it just happened too Me..
Love you..Brother
Z...

 

[tommygunz]

So I spent most of the day yesterday calling all the local rehabs and some far away ones to see if any of them would take him. I thought about the cold Turkey way but Heroin is too easy for this kid to get. He would cave in a few days if he was doing it at home. Anyway I was right he is on government insurance so from what I understand they will pay 100% for him to do up to a 7 day detox and then a 30 day inpatient rehab. Maybe not exactly like that but I’m pretty sure I’m close. Luckily the one rehab that was rated 5 stars is supposed to call him back today as soon as a bed opens up. My biggest concern is just getting him there. It really should be his mom taking him but whatever I gotta do I guess. She’s on board but just doesn’t seem to be 100% on board if that makes any sense. I figure once he’s in there the rest will be up to him. This particular rehab uses a taper down system with Suboxone. There is no methadone alternative which I’m super glad about. All the horror stories definitely makes me think that Suboxone is definitely the lesser of two evils when compared to methadone. I feel bad I can’t offer the kid anything other than information at this point but hopefully, thanks to all of you guys, he can take everything I told him and use it to get clean and to stay clean. Now that I’m aware he’s using I’m pretty sure I’ll be able to tell if he fucks up once he gets out. His biggest fear right now is going through the withdrawal. I had to give him tough love there. I told him he got himself into this mess and it’s not gonna be easy but he’s just gonna have to man up and get through it. It’s either that or die in some crack house with a needle hanging out of his arm. Thanks again to everyone that responded. I really really appreciate the time spent.

Inpatient detox with suboxone is fairly easy. I took my son to detox for fentanyl and he was climbing the walls from 3 days of cold turkey. He was delirious and talking to imaginary people. After 24 hrs his symptoms were gone and he was himself again.

Post detox rehab is another ballgame and is hard as hell. Many never make it.

 

[zionoir626]

Hope he's doing better..
Perfect example of what Good parents do..!!
I have a Nice in FL..hooked on Herion..trying to bring her back when I go down there..
I can only try..
But..I really want to kidnap her Ass if she says No..
Still just Might..!!

Don't give a shit if she hates me for the rest of her Life..
Z...

 

[CoachCabo]

You won’t die from cold turkey quitting opiods. You WILL wish you were dead but barring any other complications, you won’t die.
Yet there are so many of these things they exchange one addiction for another so if “clean” is what you want, using another drug over years ain’t clean, man.

On the other hand you CAN die from cold turkey quitting alcohol. It is even likely. Yet here we are, expecting people to quit drinking cold turkey. No taper, no substituting one drug for another.

I know three people who died from quitting drinking. One died because he needed to quit drinking to be able to get brain surgery so he wouldn’t die. “Isn’t ironic. Don’tcha think…”

A serious drunk that I know here quit drinking cold turkey with no issues. He went to a shaman, smoked some “sapo” and never drank again. But hey, that shit’s illegal man.

 

[GrindingGray]

Suboxone. Quitting cold turkey is so physically and mentally uncomfortable that most people end up using within a day of withdrawals.

 

[tommygunz]

You won’t die from cold turkey quitting opiods. You WILL wish you were dead but barring any other complications, you won’t die.
Yet there are so many of these things they exchange one addiction for another so if “clean” is what you want, using another drug over years ain’t clean, man.

On the other hand you CAN die from cold turkey quitting alcohol. It is even likely. Yet here we are, expecting people to quit drinking cold turkey. No taper, no substituting one drug for another.

I know three people who died from quitting drinking. One died because he needed to quit drinking to be able to get brain surgery so he wouldn’t die. “Isn’t ironic. Don’tcha think…”

A serious drunk that I know here quit drinking cold turkey with no issues. He went to a shaman, smoked some “sapo” and never drank again. But hey, that shit’s illegal man.

Suboxone is intended for short term use not indefinitely like methadone.
I quit drinking cold turkey and had no problem, not even a desire for alcohol. But I wouldn’t have minded smoking something with a shaman, just to scratch it off the bucket list.

 

[CoachCabo]

Suboxone is intended for short term use not indefinitely like methadone.
I quit drinking cold turkey and had no problem, not even a desire for alcohol. But I wouldn’t have minded smoking something with a shaman, just to scratch it off the bucket list.

There’s still time.

 

[TheOldJJdigs]

So much good information in here but I’ll admit I couldn’t read all of it so excuse me if it’s been said.

Methadone is something you want him to stay away from at all costs. Just in my experience anyone I’ve seen on methadone it’s as if they’re completely fried. Obviously I know it has its place but even addicts will admit it’s something they used to get banged up and most of them
Play the system and still get high while
Using it. Also it’s a Huge commitment. Having to go to the clinic every single day… if you have a job they will pull random drug tests in the AM making you miss work or putting you in situations if you don’t hang around and do what they ask then you wouldn’t get your dose that day.

Suboxone… for someone who wanting normalcy this is a the better alternative. However… and this is a big big thing to consider. Suboxones withdrawals make heroin withdrawal seem like a walk in the park. With a regular opiate (depending on usage and duration someone has taken the drug… it could be a week if at most two weeks or feeling awful. Getting off Suboxone it’s not uncommon to hear guys going through with withdrawal phase for over s month and as long as 3 months. That’s insane.

So my point is… if he’s strong enough and has enough of a mindset he should withdraw f the drugs and not take anything. You’re trading one for another by taking the medications you listed. And both subs and methadone are extremely difficult to withdraw from. And neither of them are easy to walk away from and get off. I’ve known a TON of guys who are on Suboxone who all have said they don’t like it and wish they never started.

I know this is super long post but one other point is some people need that help and withdrawal is only half of it. And to some getting on Suboxone gives them the time to get their head straight and life in order. Which some will need.. and if they didn’t have that drug to use they’ve said they would have gone back to using within a month or less of quitting the drug. So it does have its place.

Either way best of luck to your friend. You’re a good guy for looking into this for him.

 

[Powerhousehb]

So much good information in here but I’ll admit I couldn’t read all of it so excuse me if it’s been said.

Methadone is something you want him to stay away from at all costs. Just in my experience anyone I’ve seen on methadone it’s as if they’re completely fried. Obviously I know it has its place but even addicts will admit it’s something they used to get banged up and most of them
Play the system and still get high while
Using it. Also it’s a Huge commitment. Having to go to the clinic every single day… if you have a job they will pull random drug tests in the AM making you miss work or putting you in situations if you don’t hang around and do what they ask then you wouldn’t get your dose that day.

Suboxone… for someone who wanting normalcy this is a the better alternative. However… and this is a big big thing to consider. Suboxones withdrawals make heroin withdrawal seem like a walk in the park. With a regular opiate (depending on usage and duration someone has taken the drug… it could be a week if at most two weeks or feeling awful. Getting off Suboxone it’s not uncommon to hear guys going through with withdrawal phase for over s month and as long as 3 months. That’s insane.

So my point is… if he’s strong enough and has enough of a mindset he should withdraw f the drugs and not take anything. You’re trading one for another by taking the medications you listed. And both subs and methadone are extremely difficult to withdraw from. And neither of them are easy to walk away from and get off. I’ve known a TON of guys who are on Suboxone who all have said they don’t like it and wish they never started.

I know this is super long post but one other point is some people need that help and withdrawal is only half of it. And to some getting on Suboxone gives them the time to get their head straight and life in order. Which some will need.. and if they didn’t have that drug to use they’ve said they would have gone back to using within a month or less of quitting the drug. So it does have its place.

Either way best of luck to your friend. You’re a good guy for looking into this for him.

I will have to admit when I finally got off Suboxone I was barley able to function for just over 2 months. Suboxone has a very long half life and was brutal. If it wasn't for my gf helping me I don't know if I could have done it on my own. I also lost just about 25 pds due to being sick and not eating. I will never go back to that life!

 

[Cpillar2019]

withdrawal is only half of it

Good stuff JJ.

Withdrawal is tough, but coming through on the other side it could easily be said that it’s the easy part. The hard part is learning to live life on life’s terms. Notice I didn’t say “learning to live again”. Many never learned how to live. That’s why it’s a road taken a day and a step at a time. For those that have replied and been through it, keep trudging along. For those still struggling to find hope, find someone who has the hope for you when you can’t seem to find it in yourself.

 

[Jbswole40]

I will have to admit when I finally got off Suboxone I was barley able to function for just over 2 months. Suboxone has a very long half life and was brutal. If it wasn't for my gf helping me I don't know if I could have done it on my own. I also lost just about 25 pds due to being sick and not eating. I will never go back to that life!

Yea bro..it's was rough on me

 

[Truckertrash]

So I spent most of the day yesterday calling all the local rehabs and some far away ones to see if any of them would take him. I thought about the cold Turkey way but Heroin is too easy for this kid to get. He would cave in a few days if he was doing it at home. Anyway I was right he is on government insurance so from what I understand they will pay 100% for him to do up to a 7 day detox and then a 30 day inpatient rehab. Maybe not exactly like that but I’m pretty sure I’m close. Luckily the one rehab that was rated 5 stars is supposed to call him back today as soon as a bed opens up. My biggest concern is just getting him there. It really should be his mom taking him but whatever I gotta do I guess. She’s on board but just doesn’t seem to be 100% on board if that makes any sense. I figure once he’s in there the rest will be up to him. This particular rehab uses a taper down system with Suboxone. There is no methadone alternative which I’m super glad about. All the horror stories definitely makes me think that Suboxone is definitely the lesser of two evils when compared to methadone. I feel bad I can’t offer the kid anything other than information at this point but hopefully, thanks to all of you guys, he can take everything I told him and use it to get clean and to stay clean. Now that I’m aware he’s using I’m pretty sure I’ll be able to tell if he fucks up once he gets out. His biggest fear right now is going through the withdrawal. I had to give him tough love there. I told him he got himself into this mess and it’s not gonna be easy but he’s just gonna have to man up and get through it. It’s either that or die in some crack house with a needle hanging out of his arm. Thanks again to everyone that responded. I really really appreciate the time spent.

You're a good man for helping this kid. Says a lot about your character. He doesn't get help he may die. Rehab isn't a cure all unfortunately. It will break the cycle of using for him though and give him a chance. Shit, 7 day detox and 28-30 days inpatient..That's a free 30-35 days for him. I hope detoxing is so terrible for him that he never forgets it, and he never wants to do it again

 

[TheOldJJdigs]

Good stuff JJ.

Withdrawal is tough, but coming through on the other side it could easily be said that it’s the easy part. The hard part is learning to live life on life’s terms. Notice I didn’t say “learning to live again”. Many never learned how to live. That’s why it’s a road taken a day and a step at a time. For those that have replied and been through it, keep trudging along. For those still struggling to find hope, find someone who has the hope for you when you can’t seem to find it in yourself.

Totally agree man and thank you. It’s an ugly ugly thing… being addicted to anything robs people of so much and this life is beautiful. Everyday is a chance to move forward, learn, laught, enjoy new experience and love the ones around us. Addiction robs these men and woman of the pleasures in life.

I hope anyone fighting this fit stays the course snd understands they are important snd their life does have a purpose…