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Masteron questions

Jbswole40

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Right...kick that shit to curb.i never tried it but had my share of problems w painkillers for years..I gotta have my sexlife in full on beast mode,anything messing w that I'm drop.
 

Jbswole40

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Right on brother, and yes the stuff is legal, but still there certain things people do in their personal life that they don't want aired.
I'm not opposed to it or against it, and I'm not advocating or saying that it will have a negative effect on people, however that is one of the side effects for some people and it especially holds true for people who smoke a lot of marijuana, whether they want to argue it and talk about marijuana and all of its amazing god-given healing properties, whatever, the fact of the matter is certain things that we use that are relatively harmless can catch up to us down the road.
But again this is why things didn't make sense at first and I was standing firm with testosterone being a driving force that should have kept things running smoothly with the amount that was free.
But the blood work you posted was crucial with solving this.
This is the prime example why it's extremely pivotal to always give as much detail as possible, even if the individual does not think that something that they're doing could be related. Unbeknownst to them there could be so many hidden factors, yet all the while people would be pointing fingers slandering or blaming a lab without a shred of evidence.
I've seen it before, and I've seen Labs take a beat'n all because people were ill-informed and uneducated, I have even seen this take place with false negatives and skewed results from roidtest, and people commenced the slandering.
Not once that I think this was the lab.

Everything that we do here at the end of the day and after all, is one big science experiment on ourselves.
We owe each and every single instance the benefit of the doubt for process of elimination, it's best to try to rule out as many contributing forces as possible before assuming the worst. True story!
Well said bro...
 

Bullseye Forever

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Thanks for all the replies so far! Just waking up to go do cardio before I go into work. I had labs done June 22nd. Problem with the labs in regards to the estrogen number is that it's not an accurate representation of my baseline. I made a rookie mistake and chose a bad time to get the labs in regards to e2.

I was like 2 weeks out from having tried mast again (2 wks out from last mast shot). I was only on 250mg Test E and 50mg ED proviron. Given its mast E it's likely still having an effect to some degree on this E2 number which means it's not an accurate representation of my baseline e2 running 1mg adex a week with 250mg test.

I have since tried mast again with the result as described in my initial post. From what you guys are saying it sounds like I should drop the AI and give e2 a chance to rise THEN try Mast again.

Most of the time Masteron takes care of what your AI will do


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Vision

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Most of the time Masteron takes care of what your AI will do


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This will hold true with a case to case basis.
It is true and it is factual that mast could display behaviors and characteristics that would be very similar to some AI's, by way of other properties and different mechanisms of action. A very good portion of those that are very successful with this well already have a very low body composition fat ratio.
I wouldn't rely on it, especially if someone is in the double digits.
Adipose tissue likes to be a safe haven that will harbor the aromatase enzymes. This is a significant source for aromatase activity.
This is one of the reasons mast shines a lot better when the users body fat index and composition is nice and tight.
 

Vision

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Right...kick that shit to curb.i never tried it but had my share of problems w painkillers for years..I gotta have my sexlife in full on beast mode,anything messing w that I'm drop.
Good for you with kicking that shit to the curb man. ๐Ÿ‘
 

Matt88

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Right on brother, and yes the stuff is legal, but still there's certain things people do in their personal life that they don't want aired.
I'm not opposed to it or against it, and I'm not advocating or saying that it will have a negative effect on people, however that's one of the side effects for some people and it especially holds true for people who smoke a lot of marijuana, whether they want to argue it and talk about marijuana and all of its amazing god-given healing properties, whatever, the fact of the matter is certain things that we use that are relatively harmless can catch up to us down the road.
But again this is why things didn't make sense at first and I was standing firm with testosterone being a driving force that should have kept things running smoothly with the amount that was free.
But the blood work you posted was crucial with solving this.
This is the prime example why it's extremely pivotal to always give as much detail as possible, even if the individual does not think that something that they're doing could be related. Unbeknownst to them there could be so many hidden factors, yet all the while people would be pointing fingers slandering or blaming a lab without a shred of evidence.
I've seen it before, and I've seen Labs take a beat'n all because people were ill-informed and uneducated, I've seen this take place with false negatives and skewed results from roidtest, and people commenced the slandering.
Not once did I think this was the lab or the product, never crossed my mind.
But people like to go there first and run wild with it and start shaming.

Everything that we do here at the end of the day and after all, is one big science experiment on ourselves.
We owe each and every single instance the benefit of the doubt for process of elimination, it's best to try to rule out as many contributing forces as possible before assuming the worst. True story!
Yes sir! I can definitely see what you mean. My apologies for not including those labs in my initial post and them being a couple posts down.

Definitely interested to see how I respond to Mast without Kratom in play. I am just connecting the last dots in my head with this situation and trying to learn as much as possible.

Since the symptoms (sexual issues) was only present when mast was in play would it be safe to say that the mast exasperated the elevated prolactin symptoms? Maybe in the sense of lower e2 from the adex/mast combo + elevated prolactin combined equaled the symptoms i had? Saying that the mast wouldn't of produced these symptoms without the elevated prolactin? Am I close at all? ๐Ÿ˜€
 

Vision

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Yes sir! I can definitely see what you mean. My apologies for not including those labs in my initial post and them being a couple posts down.

Definitely interested to see how I respond to Mast without Kratom in play. I am just connecting the last dots in my head with this situation and trying to learn as much as possible.

Since the symptoms (sexual issues) was only present when mast was in play would it be safe to say that the mast exasperated the elevated prolactin symptoms? Maybe in the sense of lower e2 from the adex/mast combo + elevated prolactin combined equaled the symptoms i had? Saying that the mast wouldn't of produced these symptoms without the elevated prolactin? Am I close at all? ๐Ÿ˜€
If I was a betting man, I would 1,000% guarantee that the two culprits that you had involved in the past and present that has caused issues for you would be tren and kratom.. and at this moment regardless of what compounds you're taking kratom will be the heavy baller with any sexual issues whether it's with desensitivity, lack of desire and so on.

One thing you're also notice with kratom regardless of how much gear you're on it would be almost near impossible at times to ejaculate..

If you have experienced delays and almost the impossibility of ejaculating you can guarantee the culprit would be kratom.

Once you remove this from the equation and you run just test and mast like you were prior with your anti-estrogen dialed in, without tren, you're going to notice a significant increase with your sensitivity, your desire , and also the ability with being able to finish..

When on kratom, it's like showing up to a race, showing up is not the problem, but no matter how hard and fast you run you can't get to the finish line. You're still in the race no matter what but you just can't get to the finish line.

This is because of prolactin levels in your blood.
Having a heavy presence of androgens regardless of what receptors they're binding to, this has nothing to do with it, because now we are speaking about secretions, D1 and D2 receptors within your neurotransmitters , slight desensitation of these neurotransmitters that are temporarily being congested and occupied..
Sometimes running Buspar (which is a very mild, very very mild antidepressant) it's mainly used as a supportive drug in the background when running SSRIs it acts as a supportive agent, much like what anti-astrogens and cabergoline would do for us with gear.
Buspar will offset the side effects of some antidepressants that are known to an inhibit our ability to ejaculate, and along with Ed issues.
Sometimes adding that to the equation at low dosages is it good alternative in place of cabergoline.. but I'm just rambling on here of so many possibilities, potentials and protocols.

But for the time being you know what to do.
And it's very very unlikely that the mast contributed to any of this. In fact it wasn't even being allowed to shine or work at all.
From your adrenal glands, your neurotransmitters and your blood serum level that we seen, I'm extremely confident that we found with the culprit was. Everything else you were running was being clouded, cloaked..
 

Vision

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Prob scenario 2. Drop the adex. You may not need any AI if you are running mast.
Adex is STRONG. (Bad for the bones too). Use aromasin blocks conversion, boosts free-test & wont tank your E.
I love aromasin for this reason. I do use adex, I have it on script, it has its purposes.. I switch out AI,s depending on goals compounds and feels. I feel at my best on aromasin, that speaks volumes. and this is coming from a life long adex user.. modest amounts of aromasin won't smash E and tank them like you said. Its more tolerated and for long term use with TRT and blasting and cruising its a breath of fresh air with bone density, essentially not weakening bones like adex.. The PK (pharmacokinetic properties completely out classes other AI's IMO..

Great suggestion Fletch..(y)
 

Vision

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Thanks.training hard & strict diet & lifestyle got me right.i do not miss it or alcohol at all.alot of positive things said on this forum.
Listen man, some days we are the bug, other days we are the windshield. If you have days where past demons are whispering in your ear about things you've overcame, with temptations. Hit me up on PM's.
You're not alone with being enslaved once upon a time, regardless of the vice or substances. I'll hear you! Always remember that approach & avoidance inclinations will keep your straight..
 

Matt88

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Get Shredded!
I feel the same exact way as what Vision said!

Being a previous alcoholic, I get it! Hit us both up in PMs. I get PM email notifications so if I'm awake and not swamped at work I will reply to you quickly. Don't try and fight your demons alone. We have all came entirely to far to not have each other's backs.
 

Vision

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I feel the same exact way as what Vision said!

Being a previous alcoholic, I get it! Hit us both up in PMs. I get PM email notifications so if I'm awake and not swamped at work I will reply to you quickly. Don't try and fight your demons alone. We have all came entirely to far to not have each other's backs.
ySohG7c.png
 

Bullseye Forever

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This will hold true with a case to case basis.
It is true and it is factual that mast could display behaviors and characteristics that would be very similar to some AI's, by way of other properties and different mechanisms of action. A very good portion of those that are very successful with this well already have a very low body composition fat ratio.
I wouldn't rely on it, especially if someone is in the double digits.
Adipose tissue likes to be a safe haven that will harbor the aromatase enzymes. This is a significant source for aromatase activity.
This is one of the reasons mast shines a lot better when the users body fat index and composition is nice and tight.

Your right man thanks man


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rrambo1

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As previously mentioned most won't need an AI while on Mast.. I for one felt great at 1:1 ratio of Test:Mast... that is.. until I didn't... after about a year.. it tanked my E2.. no idea why it took so long.. I've had to drop it down a lot.. Now I'm about 3:1 ratio Test:Mast and feel much better.
 

Matt88

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As previously mentioned most won't need an AI while on Mast.. I for one felt great at 1:1 ratio of Test:Mast... that is.. until I didn't... after about a year.. it tanked my E2.. no idea why it took so long.. I've had to drop it down a lot.. Now I'm about 3:1 ratio Test:Mast and feel much better.
Good info. Appreciated. I haven't taken an AI in like 1 to 1.5 wks and I upped my proviron dose from 50mg to 100mg a day. No high e2 sides. My nips ALWAYS get itchy if it gets high. When i do take an AI again it will be aromasin and not adex. Going to get some Mast Prop soon and work on finding my test to mast ratio. ๐Ÿ’ช

Tampering down my kratom usage as well for anyone else reading this ๐Ÿ˜€

If I wasn't cutting so hard right now I'd be quiting kratom much faster but I need every bit of energy I can get atm and I alrdy feel like shit on low carbs ๐Ÿ˜‚
 

Matt88

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Bump for an update and a big thank you!

Wanted to take a moment and thank all of you that commented in this thread.

I've since discontinued armidex entirely and went to a low dose of Aromasin. I am now 2.5 wks into 200 mast along with my 250 test and I'm LOVING it. 50mg per day proviron is still in there as well. All I can say is wow!

So thank you to everyone for all your help!

@Vision Bro, Thank you!!
 

Jbswole40

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Bump for an update and a big thank you!

Wanted to take a moment and thank all of you that commented in this thread.

I've since discontinued armidex entirely and went to a low dose of Aromasin. I am now 2.5 wks into 200 mast along with my 250 test and I'm LOVING it. 50mg per day proviron is still in there as well. All I can say is wow!

So thank you to everyone for all your help!

@Vision Bro, Thank you!!
Great to hear..have never used aromasin yet.only use adex as needed which is not much.proviron 50ed mast 3-400week helps for me.keep pushing.
 

Vision

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Bump for an update and a big thank you!

Wanted to take a moment and thank all of you that commented in this thread.

I've since discontinued armidex entirely and went to a low dose of Aromasin. I am now 2.5 wks into 200 mast along with my 250 test and I'm LOVING it. 50mg per day proviron is still in there as well. All I can say is wow!

So thank you to everyone for all your help!

@Vision Bro, Thank you!!
Brother, this is absolutely terrific News man it's so good clicking on to this link and reading your update, and everything turned right around.
Thank you for taking into consideration some advice and suggestions that was truly aimed at your well-being, I would have never suggested anything that I have little experience with, I would have tagged someone that is more qualified, but I personally was in the same predicament, with ditching arimidex and entirely changing out my AI, well at the same time using a low or moderate amount of mast and test..
It was day and night.
In 2 weeks from now you're going to feel like you're floating on air.
Embrace the moment, but most of all make as many notes as you possibly can so you can read back on. In this outlines that you really don't need much.
Good for you brother (high 5).
So many other guys chimed in with real life feedback man, your peers came through for you brother. ๐Ÿ‘๐Ÿคœ๐Ÿค›

Keep us posted how you make out especially for all the solid readers.
 

Matt88

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Brother, this is absolutely terrific News man it's so good clicking on to this link and reading your update, and everything turned right around.
Thank you for taking into consideration some advice and suggestions that was truly aimed at your well-being, I would have never suggested anything that I have little experience with, I would have tagged someone that is more qualified, but I personally was in the same predicament, with ditching arimidex and entirely changing out my AI, well at the same time using a low or moderate amount of mast and test..
It was day and night.
In 2 weeks from now you're going to feel like you're floating on air.
Embrace the moment, but most of all make as many notes as you possibly can so you can read back on. In this outlines that you really don't need much.
Good for you brother (high 5).
So many other guys chimed in with real life feedback man, your peers came through for you brother. ๐Ÿ‘๐Ÿคœ๐Ÿค›

Keep us posted how you make out especially for all the solid readers.
You completely nailed it 100% brother. Very well done!! Thank you again. I'll be ordering more aromasin and not touching adex again unless it's an emergency.

You guys really are the best community of people I've ever encountered, period.. I feel like you came along right when I needed you to as well. I had gave up drinking, got back in the gym, was working on getting diet/training nailed down and I was ready to join this amazing community to share my reinstated passion for fitness (the first time without alcohol in my life) with you guys.

Thank you for having me and allowing me to be a apart of this amazing community. Also, thank you for being humble. All of you. You never talk down to me even though you have like 6 times the amount of muscle I have ๐Ÿ˜‚ I appreciate that more than you know. I've seen it go down on other forums but not here. Not on ASF. You guys/gals realize we are all on our journey. Some of us just started and others are years down the road in front of us. But at the end of the day we all come together as a community and help one another. Sorry if that sounded sappy. ๐Ÿคทโ€โ™‚๏ธ
 

Fletcher

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Bump for an update and a big thank you!

Wanted to take a moment and thank all of you that commented in this thread.

I've since discontinued armidex entirely and went to a low dose of Aromasin. I am now 2.5 wks into 200 mast along with my 250 test and I'm LOVING it. 50mg per day proviron is still in there as well. All I can say is wow!

So thank you to everyone for all your help!

@Vision Bro, Thank you!!
Good decision. Adex eats your bones brother.
 

Fletcher

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I also use kratom, low dose. Keeps the old injury pains at bay.
If you get quality kratom you dont need much. I dose it a .5g 2X a day tops.
 

Fletcher

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I see why I'm hurting for a day or 2 after taking...thought it just lowered my estrogen to much.anyways why I barely take it,only sometimes when running over 500mg test.
Look it up on PubMed.
Its the #1 side effect: loss of bone density.
Aromasin is the way to go. Imo. Adex is an emergency AI for short term use, 1 week or less, if estro gets out of control.
Sadly, trt docs are trained to prescribe it. The gd pharma co.s know exactly what this shit does long term, and the FDA is ok with it (bc they are all former big P employees) they come from big pharma co.s, work on the FDA panel as schills, then go back to big pharma as VPs & Presidents. Its a racket.
 

Jbswole40

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Look it up on PubMed.
Its the #1 side effect: loss of bone density.
Aromasin is the way to go. Imo. Adex is an emergency AI for short term use, 1 week or less, if estro gets out of control.
Sadly, trt docs are trained to prescribe it. The gd pharma co.s know exactly what this shit does long term, and the FDA is ok with it (bc they are all former big P employees) they come from big pharma co.s, work on the FDA panel as schills, then go back to big pharma as VPs & Presidents. Its a racket.
Will do..already ordered me aromasin.i don't need any more loss of bone.had that issues years ago when I broke my back.dr put me on 40,000ius of vitamin d.wasnt sure how aromasin worked,says it completely kills estrogen, I know need some to build muscle.
 

Vision

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Look it up on PubMed.
Its the #1 side effect: loss of bone density.
Aromasin is the way to go. Imo. Adex is an emergency AI for short term use, 1 week or less, if estro gets out of control.
Sadly, trt docs are trained to prescribe it. The gd pharma co.s know exactly what this shit does long term, and the FDA is ok with it (bc they are all former big P employees) they come from big pharma co.s, work on the FDA panel as schills, then go back to big pharma as VPs & Presidents. Its a racket.
100% doctors handed out like crazy, I asked my doctor to switch it up and he doesn't know about any other anti-estrogens, he pulls out his notepad and starts going on his Google.
I'm done with adex.
Once upon a time I swore by it, and a lot of guys were strongly encouraging that I reconsider.. they weren't wrong.
 

Jbswole40

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So correct if I'm wrong..aromasin will completely stop test from aromitizing to estro,but it won't completely kill my estrogen?.never needed ai,but currently running about 600wk.only sometimes get sides.mast &proviron help,but get sides usually 24hrs after dosing.
 

Vision

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So correct if I'm wrong..aromasin will completely stop test from aromitizing to estro,but it won't completely kill my estrogen?.never needed ai,but currently running about 600wk.only sometimes get sides.mast &proviron help,but get sides usually 24hrs after dosing.
Yes, from the data that I have personally seen, it has the most success with neutralizing the aromatization without completely nuking it.
AIs truly are not all created equal, some like letro can be so strong that they will reduce even some selective tissue and blood plasma suppression. Aromasin is more user friendly, and it won't cancel out other drugs. Perfect example would be Adex will cancel out the effects of tamoxifen.. so if someone was running a compound that was acting slutty, and displaying estro mimicking properties, and Adex was already employed, so the individual takes Tamoxifen in hopes to Target and block the chitter chat all the way down to the receptor level, Adex would block that signaling, basically rendering it useless.
This right here explains why I had such a difficult time desperately trying to stop HCG induced estro/gyno flare ups in the past.
Nothing was working. I was throwing everything in the kitchen sink at it, including caber. The Adex was making it worse, while I was throwing more of it in, and more tamox.
Soon as I bailed on the Adex the tamox went right to work and the inflammation was literally reduced right away. It was the worst flare up I have ever seen or had. It was so big and so rampant that my skin was stretching, and it was red. Protruding from my shirt like a tumor.

No HCG for me ever again, and as far as adex, that would depend on what my coach says, because it does serve a purpose.

Switching up from Adex to aromasin depending on the compound is not unusual.
Different drugs need AIs, and this would hold more true as well depending on the individuals body index/adipose tissue..
 

Vision

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So correct if I'm wrong..aromasin will completely stop test from aromitizing to estro,but it won't completely kill my estrogen?.never needed ai,but currently running about 600wk.only sometimes get sides.mast &proviron help,but get sides usually 24hrs after dosing.
With your last portion using mast and prov, some guys can actually get away with it but if you pulled blood work, you might be surprised at where your estro really is. Tighter you are, depending on genetics with enzymes, less AIs people would actually need. Let me reword that, some people could get away with using less..
 

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With your last portion using mast and prov, some guys can actually get away with it but if you pulled blood work, you might be surprised at where your estro really is. Tighter you are, depending on genetics with enzymes, less AIs people would actually need. Let me reword that, some people could get away with using less..
Great info,and analogies ๐Ÿ˜†. Didn't know about the adex & tomaxifin issue.i have used just tamoxifen for flare up puffy nips in past.i have caber too hope I will not have to use it only running 350 npp with mast & proviron 600 test.so sides as of now little acne,but I can live with that for now.always been overzealous when it comes to anything feeling or looks with my nips.i was fat 26%+bf at 1 time don't want tits again. ๐Ÿ˜€ I'm under 10% now.conversion not strong but still always on mind
 

Vision

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Great info,and analogies ๐Ÿ˜†. Didn't know about the adex & tomaxifin issue.i have used just tamoxifen for flare up puffy nips in past.i have caber too hope I will not have to use it only running 350 npp with mast & proviron 600 test.so sides as of now little acne,but I can live with that for now.always been overzealous when it comes to anything feeling or looks with my nips.i was fat 26%+bf at 1 time don't want tits again. ๐Ÿ˜€ I'm under 10% now.conversion not strong but still always on mind
Those dosages that you were running are actually perfect man, anything more than that will demonstrate more side effects than actual returns.
And I'm right there with you with never going back to a higher fat percent.
I would rather shrink, and wither away during a setback then get fat again.. I love food, but I refuse to use it as a crutch and the coddle my emotions. ๐Ÿคฃ
 
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