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PapapumpCOS

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400-500 is a very standard first cycle and it's really not a large amount at all bodybuilding wise.

Anything less and most people are going to be very underwhelmed with the results. Some people are underwhelmed with 400-500mg a week.

The doses you are talking about are going to put most guys at high normal test levels or just above. Just depends on what kind of responder you are. It sounds like you are a hyper responder which is great but more often than not guys don't respond as well as you do.

We are discussing a first cycle vs TRT/High TRT. If you had low T to begin with them yes you are most definitely going to see great results with 200-250 a week.
I appreciate the dialogue. I have never gone beyond 250mg EW so I cannot offer any personal thoughts on what it's like. But I can imagine one of the side effects is needing to buy a new wardrobe. 😋
 

KillaCity

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Do you honestly feel like you need to run something? Have you exhausted every other option to achieve the goal you've set? Say just with diet training and discipline? I mean, if you don't have to start gear, don't. I don't regret starting gear 25+ years ago but I at the same time wouldn't promote it now to the youngsters. Either way, be safe and be well, friend. Welcome and good luck.
 

Forty01

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Do you honestly feel like you need to run something? Have you exhausted every other option to achieve the goal you've set? Say just with diet training and discipline? I mean, if you don't have to start gear, don't. I don't regret starting gear 25+ years ago but I at the same time wouldn't promote it now to the youngsters. Either way, be safe and be well, friend. Welcome and good luck.
I’ve focused on diet, I’ve fasted, I’ve trained all different ways, I’ve done all together, and I want to see what type of results I get this way. I could give two 💩’s about guys preaching only natty or running gear religiously. It’s something that want to try and that’s that. Thank you for the comment 🤙🏼💪🏼
 

Push50

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400-500 Test E or C would be a great starting point. I wouldn't start with more than that until you see how you respond.

Armidex (anastrozole) or Aromasin (exemestane) are the 2 AIs of choice. Make sure you have one of those on hand before you start. Most people start at 1/2 a tab twice a week.

AI dosage is NOT written in stone. Everyone is different! Some people.convert test to estrogen like crazy and some don't hardly at all. You have to find out where you land with that.

You want to Pin your test twice a week. Monday and Thursday or Tuesday and Friday. So on 500mg test a week you would take 250mg on one day and 250mg on the other day.

Test E or C has a half life of around 4 days so thats why you want to pin (inject) it twice a week.


I like to have Nolva on hand as well in case you get gyno. It can be very useful for gyno.



@Milford King gave some super solid advice so read over that.

Goodluck

I would have to agree 500/wk test is a great first cycle. I wouldn’t consider going any lower.


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Push50

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400-500 Test E or C would be a great starting point. I wouldn't start with more than that until you see how you respond.

Armidex (anastrozole) or Aromasin (exemestane) are the 2 AIs of choice. Make sure you have one of those on hand before you start. Most people start at 1/2 a tab twice a week.

AI dosage is NOT written in stone. Everyone is different! Some people.convert test to estrogen like crazy and some don't hardly at all. You have to find out where you land with that.

You want to Pin your test twice a week. Monday and Thursday or Tuesday and Friday. So on 500mg test a week you would take 250mg on one day and 250mg on the other day.

Test E or C has a half life of around 4 days so thats why you want to pin (inject) it twice a week.


I like to have Nolva on hand as well in case you get gyno. It can be very useful for gyno.



@Milford King gave some super solid advice so read over that.

Goodluck

I would have to agree 500/wk test is a great first cycle. I wouldn’t consider going any lower.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Atlga007

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Hey all I’m brand new here and doing a lot of reading but it’s getting a little confusing. Only thing I’ve ever ran was Haloplex which was an oral back in 2012 while deployed. I want to go full on but really don’t know which way to go in any direction. Advice seems to be all over the map; start high, start low, etc. It would be greatly appreciated if any of you would be willing to give a little solid direction.
I’m 45 and will be getting blood work done first very soon. I know it can be a little trial and error but a shove in the right direction would be awesome.
It’s all what you can get your hands on…when you say “full on” that’s pretty vague cuz your “full on” is diff from everyone else…you’ll be safe on 200-400/mg of test weekly…I’m 50yo and have been on test cyp since 2012 some months I’ll blast and some I’ll Cruze but you’ll be fine…just get started !!!
 

KillaCity

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I’ve focused on diet, I’ve fasted, I’ve trained all different ways, I’ve done all together, and I want to see what type of results I get this way. I could give two 💩’s about guys preaching only natty or running gear religiously. It’s something that want to try and that’s that. Thank you for the comment 🤙🏼💪🏼
So is that a yes, you feel you need to run something?
 

hot rod

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Go for it bro. U'll be amazed at how much u get from 500 test. I like test e the best. A lot of guys like cyp. Either is fine. U sound like my kinda guy. Good luck my man and let us know how it goes. Next time u may add something else- or not. Your choice- but I totally agree w/papapump. Get after it bro!
 

hot rod

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Get Shredded!
Go for it bro. U'll be amazed at how much u get from 500 test. I like test e the best. A lot of guys like cyp. Either is fine. U sound like my kinda guy. Good luck my man and let us know how it goes. Next time u may add something else- or not. Your choice- but I totally agree w/papapump. Get after it bro!
This may be a little late- but be careful discussing gear w/ your doc- unless he's very discreet or u are friends etc. If insurance companies find out u are using cycle-amounts, they CAN drop u. My doc knows everything I do- BUT the insurance company does not. Again- good luck bro!( If u ever need/ want to chat, hit me up on pm) I'm a good bit older than u and have a little exp- almost 40 years- be 59 in August. Just an offer bro, no pressure-HR
 

CoachCabo

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When someone says they have dieted, done this, done that, do we just take it in faith that they tried these things properly? I mean, this is the forum where the vast majority of members are “10% bodyfat”.
 

hot rod

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When someone says they have dieted, done this, done that, do we just take it in faith that they tried these things properly? I mean, this is the forum where the vast majority of members are “10% bodyfat”.
Think most guys are gonna do it anyway Coach. Might as well have some guidance. And this dude sounds legit to me- but this is the interweb, right? Sounds like he's done his due diligence. As for bodyfat- we're all under 10%- lol.
 

CoachCabo

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I am all for helping Señor hot rod, otherwise I wouldn’t be here giving free advice. Thet thing is I have a low tolerance for delusional people. Some maybe think they are doing it right but my experience, and I have a significant amount of it, is that people not only think they have done all they can but want to convince themselves they have.
I encounter this all the time. Think about when you hear someone say “I am putting in the work man! I spend three hours in the gym.” Yep, that’s putting in the work, but it ain’t going to be maximally productive.

I dig deep with new clients to see what they have been doing wrong so we can start on the best foot, ensuring progress at a rate they have never experienced before.

And I don’t preach natty, but I make damn sure every box is ticked before pumping drugs into someone, and only then after exhaustive blood work.

You are long in the tooth too so you know as well as I do the folly of going right on the gear without a proper coach deconstructing all previous actions.

When I see “fast” I know someone wasn’t optimally anabolic. “I’ve done it all together…” reminds me of the Chris Rock bit about dudes trying to take credit for shit they are supposed to do. “I take care of my keeeds!” Yeah MFer, you are supposed to!

Over and over I will say, if a someone wants to get anywhere with their health and physique, hire a coach. There is nothing intuitive about this game and bit and pieces of advice from the internet can make the process worse rather than better.
 

hot rod

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I am all for helping Señor hot rod, otherwise I wouldn’t be here giving free advice. Thet thing is I have a low tolerance for delusional people. Some maybe think they are doing it right but my experience, and I have a significant amount of it, is that people not only think they have done all they can but want to convince themselves they have.
I encounter this all the time. Think about when you hear someone say “I am putting in the work man! I spend three hours in the gym.” Yep, that’s putting in the work, but it ain’t going to be maximally productive.

I dig deep with new clients to see what they have been doing wrong so we can start on the best foot, ensuring progress at a rate they have never experienced before.

And I don’t preach natty, but I make damn sure every box is ticked before pumping drugs into someone, and only then after exhaustive blood work.

You are long in the tooth too so you know as well as I do the folly of going right on the gear without a proper coach deconstructing all previous actions.

When I see “fast” I know someone wasn’t optimally anabolic. “I’ve done it all together…” reminds me of the Chris Rock bit about dudes trying to take credit for shit they are supposed to do. “I take care of my keeeds!” Yeah MFer, you are supposed to!

Over and over I will say, if a someone wants to get anywhere with their health and physique, hire a coach. There is nothing intuitive about this game and bit and pieces of advice from the internet can make the process worse rather than better.
Didn't mean any disrespect Amigo! Under optimal circumstances, I think everyone should have a Coach. I've personally never had one per se. I have worked out w/ a former 3 time Mr. South Carolina and he's the one who introduced me to gear and how to do it safely and responsibly. Haven't seen him in awhile, but he owns a gym here in town. He coaches now. Anyway NOT sure everyone has the time and money- but he would certainly benefit from one. I just thought he sounded pretty experienced other than w/ gear. I could be totally wrong- wouldn't be the first time. Hopefully he does it the right way and I know enough about u that u meant well. Much respect Amigo!-HR
 
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