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Skip Foursome

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You're an idiot.

And your dangerous bc new guys reading how it's okay to eat bagels, McDonald's as part of this lifestyle is reckless.

IDK who the fuck you think you are to take a position like this but it's over your head.

Relationship with food?? lolz. Who you parroting? Any pro would tell you they don't eat the foods your talking about. Unless they are doing a cheat day or dirty bulK (excuse to consume shit).

Again, this shit is over year head. You read this shit someplace and now parrot it like some newbie dick.

Also, post where it was debunked. So I can learn that it was... rabbi

I thought twice about posting the same thing.

Glad someone said it.
 

Augustine5I

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I think Vision broke down what Bft84 was saying pretty well in that this is the absolute most basic concept between weight loss and gain and in that regard he is correct.

Regardless of composition and any kind of gastroenterological distress, the only thing that dictates weight gained vs weight lost is caloric intake. The finer points of your diet will dictate what kind of weight that is. It’s easier to stay satiated and feel better in general if you keep processed foods to a minimum but it’s not mandatory strictly from a scale weight perspective.

He’s providing some much needed pushback against some of the silly shit I’ve seen proponents of Keto and Atkins diets push. My former Controller argued with me up and down that caloric intake didn’t matter. You could only gain weight once you ate carbs. I challenged him to eat a tub of mayonnaise in front of me every day for a month and then we could weigh him at the end. Those people are the ones are that are confused. He looked like absolute shit and refused to be helped.

I went on the Atkins diet once.

Growing up, the mantra was always "fat" is bad. Don't eat fat foods or they will make you fat.

When I did the Atkins diet, was no carbs. But all the fat and protein you want was fine. There was no counting calories. Just the elimination of carbs pretty much.

What happened? I dropped a ton of weight. Eating eggs and bacon. Steak.

So, eat the same 3k calorie diet, no carbs. And lost weight.

End up? Calories in and calories out are bullshit. There is more to it and to simplify ppl that have difficulty getting lean as having a poor relationship with food is idiotic and reckless. IMO

Vision is a nice guy and tries to see all sides. Gives the benefit of the doubt to morons like that.

Guy is a fucking newbie pretending to be an old salty vet. But reality he is a parroting dickhead.
 

Bft84

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You're an idiot.

And your dangerous bc new guys reading how it's okay to eat bagels, McDonald's as part of this lifestyle is reckless.

IDK who the fuck you think you are to take a position like this but it's over your head.

Relationship with food?? lolz. Who you parroting? Any pro would tell you they don't eat the foods your talking about. Unless they are doing a cheat day or dirty bulK (excuse to consume shit).

Again, this shit is over year head. You read this shit someplace and now parrot it like some newbie dick.

Also, post where it was debunked. So I can learn that it was... rabbi

I’m not an idiot this is science you dipshit. Do I need to post more pics of what adhering to a caloric allotment and adequate protein does? You are always so wrong it’s hilarious. Go eat some special colored rice. What exactly did I post that was incorrect? Would you like studies as well? Go ask Layne Norton you retard. Protein is king, and fats and carbs are energy sources. What pros do? There’s a ton that adhere to flexible dieting. Also just because a bodybuilder does something doesn’t make it the only way. Your appeal to authority is stupid.

Super size me: https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Super_Size_Me
 

Bft84

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I went on the Atkins diet once.

Growing up, the mantra was always "fat" is bad. Don't eat fat foods or they will make you fat.

When I did the Atkins diet, was no carbs. But all the fat and protein you want was fine. There was no counting calories. Just the elimination of carbs pretty much.

What happened? I dropped a ton of weight. Eating eggs and bacon. Steak.

So, eat the same 3k calorie diet, no carbs. And lost weight.

End up? Calories in and calories out are bullshit. There is more to it and to simplify ppl that have difficulty getting lean as having a poor relationship with food is idiotic and reckless. IMO

Vision is a nice guy and tries to see all sides. Gives the benefit of the doubt to morons like that.

Guy is a fucking newbie pretending to be an old salty vet. But reality he is a parroting dickhead.
you are fuckimg dumb. You lost weight because you are less. This is science. A newb lol I’m 36.
 

Bft84

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I went on the Atkins diet once.

Growing up, the mantra was always "fat" is bad. Don't eat fat foods or they will make you fat.

When I did the Atkins diet, was no carbs. But all the fat and protein you want was fine. There was no counting calories. Just the elimination of carbs pretty much.

What happened? I dropped a ton of weight. Eating eggs and bacon. Steak.

So, eat the same 3k calorie diet, no carbs. And lost weight.

End up? Calories in and calories out are bullshit. There is more to it and to simplify ppl that have difficulty getting lean as having a poor relationship with food is idiotic and reckless. IMO

Vision is a nice guy and tries to see all sides. Gives the benefit of the doubt to morons like that.

Guy is a fucking newbie pretending to be an old salty vet. But reality he is a parroting dickhead.

what do you look like? Im definitely a noob 😂
 

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Augustine5I

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you are fuckimg dumb. You lost weight because you are less. This is science. A newb lol I’m 36.

LOLz.

How the fuck do you know I ate less? You were there? In fact, I probably ate more.

I am dumb bc this actually happened and I know first hand, but it doesn't fit your narrative.

You just don't understand how the manipulation of macros effect the human body making your calorie in/calorie out story doesn't jive.

As with the Atkins diet. Which specifically doesn't pay attention or count calories.

What you espouse is junk science. Look it up. Btw waiting on the link demonstrating how the guy at McDonalds was a false documentary and was debunked.
 

Augustine5I

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what do you look like? Im definitely a noob 

You look great. No question. I mean newb on this forum.

But you are young and a major juice head. You fucking heart is going to implode with all that Tren.

I got nearly 15 years on you. Doubt you make it to 50.
 

Bft84

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LOLz.

How the fuck do you know I ate less? You were there? In fact, I probably ate more.

I am dumb bc this actually happened and I know first hand, but it doesn't fit your narrative.

You just don't understand how the manipulation of macros effect the human body making your calorie in/calorie out story doesn't jive.

As with the Atkins diet. Which specifically doesn't pay attention or count calories.

What you espouse is junk science. Look it up. Btw waiting on the link demonstrating how the guy at McDonalds was a false documentary and was debunked.

I posted a link. Also would you like links to studies that show there’s no difference in weight loss on law carb vs high carb diets as long as calories are the same? It’s the LAW of thermodynamics.
 

Bft84

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You look great. No question. I mean newb on this forum.

But you are young and a major juice head. You fucking heart is going to implode with all that Tren.

I got nearly 15 years on you. Doubt you make it to 50.
Major juice head? What was my last cycle? I don’t run heavy doses. I’m on 200 trest and 100test right now. My blood work is always good. You don’t know what you think you know. Also I have naturally subpar genetics. A noob or a vet on here means nothing.
Here’s the link again.
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Super_Size_Me

also I don’t touch tren. You just accuse me of being an abuser because everything you’ve done hasn’t worked but you come on here and give advice. Let’s see your results
 
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Bft84

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Get Shredded!
LOLz.

How the fuck do you know I ate less? You were there? In fact, I probably ate more.

I am dumb bc this actually happened and I know first hand, but it doesn't fit your narrative.

You just don't understand how the manipulation of macros effect the human body making your calorie in/calorie out story doesn't jive.

As with the Atkins diet. Which specifically doesn't pay attention or count calories.

What you espouse is junk science. Look it up. Btw waiting on the link demonstrating how the guy at McDonalds was a false documentary and was debunked.

i know you are less calories because you lost weight. Do you not understand how the energy system in the body works? This is basic biology. A macro isn’t magical it’s simply an energy source.

- - - Updated - - -

LOLz.

How the fuck do you know I ate less? You were there? In fact, I probably ate more.

I am dumb bc this actually happened and I know first hand, but it doesn't fit your narrative.

You just don't understand how the manipulation of macros effect the human body making your calorie in/calorie out story doesn't jive.

As with the Atkins diet. Which specifically doesn't pay attention or count calories.

What you espouse is junk science. Look it up. Btw waiting on the link demonstrating how the guy at McDonalds was a false documentary and was debunked.

i know you are less calories because you lost weight. Do you not understand how the energy system in the body works? This is basic biology. A macro isn’t magical it’s simply an energy source.
 

Bft84

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LOLz.

How the fuck do you know I ate less? You were there? In fact, I probably ate more.

I am dumb bc this actually happened and I know first hand, but it doesn't fit your narrative.

You just don't understand how the manipulation of macros effect the human body making your calorie in/calorie out story doesn't jive.

As with the Atkins diet. Which specifically doesn't pay attention or count calories.

What you espouse is junk science. Look it up. Btw waiting on the link demonstrating how the guy at McDonalds was a false documentary and was debunked.

junk science? 😂
here’s some real science old man
https://examine.com/nutrition/low-fat-vs-low-carb-for-weight-loss/
 

Milford King

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So... I see bft84s point and in my experience when I was a young buck playing sports and lifting I ate whatever the fuck I wanted when I was hungry.... and I looked good. Then i started AAS, still played sports and lifted harder and heavier and looked even better....

but then I got older


shit foods started slowing me down, no energy, injuries, longer recovery periods....

it is important, as you age to eat clean... obviously calories in vs calories out is science and how you lose weight but...

there’s more to nutrition than losing weight.

you need vitamins and fine tuned macros to keep your engine running...

so both sides are correct but it is indeed much more than that.


im guess bft84 doesn’t eat shit everyday ... just guessing

and that trest is fucking magical lol
 

Multislacking

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I disagree on brown rice being good for anything man. It causes noticable gastric stress and bad digestion for me with even one meal a day. I've heard many others say the same. I'm assuming that enzyme in it that causes malabsorption of micronutrients is the cause. Plus I don't see many higher level coaches using it at all for prep, which I'm assuming is for a reason. Meadows doesn't like it at all.

I'm pretty certain you just stated exactly why some people recommend brown rice. It is harder for the body to digest, body uses more calories to break it down, etc, etc. The slightly lower glycemic value for brown is probably negligible in the overall scheme of diet. If it causes issues/food allergies, obviously don't do it.

Which brings me to what we all know. For every study that says "do this" we can find an equal number of studies that say "don't do this". The best diets and training routines are the ones you can stick to. We're all experiments in progress and until we try something we won't know if it works for us or not. I'm not going to tell someone they *have* to do anything...it's all just suggestions for something to try to see if it works.

Best of luck to OP on his journey. Not sure why this one new guy thread turned into such a dick swinging contest. I'll apologize for anyone I've been testy with this week (bft84 in particular). I have a family member on their death bed and all this seems pretty trivial right now. My "being compassionate and positive" tank is about empty for everyone I have around me IRL. Life is too short to argue about trivial things.
 

Bft84

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So... I see bft84s point and in my experience when I was a young buck playing sports and lifting I ate whatever the fuck I wanted when I was hungry.... and I looked good. Then i started AAS, still played sports and lifted harder and heavier and looked even better....

but then I got older


shit foods started slowing me down, no energy, injuries, longer recovery periods....

it is important, as you age to eat clean... obviously calories in vs calories out is science and how you lose weight but...

there’s more to nutrition than losing weight.

you need vitamins and fine tuned macros to keep your engine running...

so both sides are correct but it is indeed much more than that.


im guess bft84 doesn’t eat shit everyday ... just guessing

and that trest is fucking magical lol
Thank you. You get it. I said a few times I’m not talking about health as far as cico. I do generally eat some “bad or junk” food daily. I like it. I also said that I’m not going to give food recommendations because I don’t each individuals history. If someone is only eating McDonald’s and Cheetos LOL then they will be healthier by eating that but eating less and losing weight. I also made a point in post about digestibility that’s largely important and goes into how one feels. Remember the difference between poison and a cure is the dose and what might kill one person could save another’s life. I will never refer to any food as bad food some are more nutritious than others but it doesn’t make the less nutritious food bad. If one person overeats clean food and becomes obese and another person loses weight on “junk” the person who lost weight will be healthier and have improved health markers. If you want to call a food bad break down the
the individual ingredients and explain which one is bad when not over consumed.

lol I just started the trest e last week so we will see. I’ve heard good things. I will say I’m peeing less.
 
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For test e I didn’t notice anything til like week 5/6 so I wouldn’t worry too much


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Augustine5I

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I’m not an idiot this is science you dipshit. Do I need to post more pics of what adhering to a caloric allotment and adequate protein does? You are always so wrong it’s hilarious. Go eat some special colored rice. What exactly did I post that was incorrect? Would you like studies as well? Go ask Layne Norton you retard. Protein is king, and fats and carbs are energy sources. What pros do? There’s a ton that adhere to flexible dieting. Also just because a bodybuilder does something doesn’t make it the only way. Your appeal to authority is stupid.

Super size me: https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Super_Size_Me

Okay, what's incorrect?

You aren't exactly incorrect or correct in your statements. You mix truth with half truths. It's reckless. That's what junk science does...

You would be a great personal trainer. Hey, no cardio. Eat doughnuts. Drink Soda. And look like me (except I taken a ton of Tren).

IDK bro, keep doing you.

I will say this, if you read over your posts, and came off less like an arrogant cock, it would be received better.

For someone who doesn't "appeal" to authority, you sure act like an authority.
 

Augustine5I

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So... I see bft84s point and in my experience when I was a young buck playing sports and lifting I ate whatever the fuck I wanted when I was hungry.... and I looked good. Then i started AAS, still played sports and lifted harder and heavier and looked even better....

but then I got older


shit foods started slowing me down, no energy, injuries, longer recovery periods....

it is important, as you age to eat clean... obviously calories in vs calories out is science and how you lose weight but...

there’s more to nutrition than losing weight.

you need vitamins and fine tuned macros to keep your engine running...

so both sides are correct but it is indeed much more than that.


im guess bft84 doesn’t eat shit everyday ... just guessing

and that trest is fucking magical lol

According to him, it isn't necessary to eat clean. A calorie is a calorie.

Your just confused. He simplified it for us.

I just hope some newbie doesn't view this thread and his post and come to the conclusion that they can eat just about anything and look like him.

Bc that is how he comes across.

He is revolutionized the industry...taken clean eating and thrown it out the window.

A piece of cake = grilled vegetables so long as they are both 300 calories. Who knew??

Keep an eye out for this guy, next Rich Piana.
 

GarlicChicken

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White rice my friend!

Starchy carbs over complex carbs any day.

Oh this is so simple (sarcasm)....... :)
Lol I'm not saying to only eat white rice lol. My point is broken rice causes digestive problems for most people, and if you're not digesting it, you're not utilizing it. I personally shit out everything I eat undigested when I eat it with brown rice. I'm not the only one. Plus it's proven that brown rice causes malabsorption.

I'm saying there's better carbs for bodybuilding purposes. Sweet potato, regular potato, Barilla protein+ pasta, fruit, etc. Fats slow down the digestion of carbs too. There's a reason very few high level coaches RX brown rice at all.

To be clear OP, I'm not saying to eat shit carbs. Don't go eating burgers and fries all the time. Here and there sure, it'll help push your caloric intake up. But don't overdo it.
 

GarlicChicken

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I'm pretty certain you just stated exactly why some people recommend brown rice. It is harder for the body to digest, body uses more calories to break it down, etc, etc. The slightly lower glycemic value for brown is probably negligible in the overall scheme of diet. If it causes issues/food allergies, obviously don't do it.

Which brings me to what we all know. For every study that says "do this" we can find an equal number of studies that say "don't do this". The best diets and training routines are the ones you can stick to. We're all experiments in progress and until we try something we won't know if it works for us or not. I'm not going to tell someone they *have* to do anything...it's all just suggestions for something to try to see if it works.

Best of luck to OP on his journey. Not sure why this one new guy thread turned into such a dick swinging contest. I'll apologize for anyone I've been testy with this week (bft84 in particular). I have a family member on their death bed and all this seems pretty trivial right now. My "being compassionate and positive" tank is about empty for everyone I have around me IRL. Life is too short to argue about trivial things.
This is true, but it's the enzyme in it that causes nutrient malabsorption that causes the problems. I thought this was common knowledge in the bodybuilding world these days. Go watch some interviews with Matt Jansen, John Meadows, Chris Aceto, etc. They've all said the same thing about brown rice.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/2822877/

Here's one of the studies on the matter. It decreases nutrient absorption, hands down. Protein especially.
 

MonsterMaker

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Lol I'm not saying to only eat white rice lol. My point is broken rice causes digestive problems for most people, and if you're not digesting it, you're not utilizing it. I personally shit out everything I eat undigested when I eat it with brown rice. I'm not the only one. Plus it's proven that brown rice causes malabsorption.

I'm saying there's better carbs for bodybuilding purposes. Sweet potato, regular potato, Barilla protein+ pasta, fruit, etc. Fats slow down the digestion of carbs too. There's a reason very few high level coaches RX brown rice at all.

To be clear OP, I'm not saying to eat shit carbs. Don't go eating burgers and fries all the time. Here and there sure, it'll help push your caloric intake up. But don't overdo it.

Ya I don’t know man I’ve always been been keen on eating high quality foods. I feel better that way and that’s all I know. My body responds better to eating a avocado burger made with extra lean meat and no cheese while getting a good 15 -20 grams of healthy fats in through the avocado than it would to eating a double cheese burger from Mac Ds and filling up on all that saturated fat. Could just be placebo but I definitely feel better eating like that.

Don’t get me wrong I still have cheat meals but I make damn sure they aren’t a staple…


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GarlicChicken

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Ya I don’t know man I’ve always been been keen on eating high quality foods. I feel better that way and that’s all I know. My body responds better to eating a avocado burger made with extra lean meat and no cheese while getting a good 15 -20 grams of healthy fats in through the avocado than it would to eating a double cheese burger from Mac Ds and filling up on all that saturated fat. Could just be placebo but I definitely feel better eating like that.

Don’t get me wrong I still have cheat meals but I make damn sure they aren’t a staple…


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I agree 100% man. Eat clean for the most part, nothing worse than eating a burger and fries then trying to lift the same day lol. It's good here and there.

Try swapping out the brown rice for a few days though. Leave it in for one meal, before I had GI problems I had good luck with having it in one meal with low fats in that meal. Just replace it with other clean carbs and see how it goes. Especially pre workout try white rice with some added fats like evoo or mac nut oil. Sits much lighter in the stomach than anything else
 

Skip Foursome

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Lol I'm not saying to only eat white rice lol. My point is broken rice causes digestive problems for most people, and if you're not digesting it, you're not utilizing it. I personally shit out everything I eat undigested when I eat it with brown rice. I'm not the only one. Plus it's proven that brown rice causes malabsorption.

I'm saying there's better carbs for bodybuilding purposes. Sweet potato, regular potato, Barilla protein+ pasta, fruit, etc. Fats slow down the digestion of carbs too. There's a reason very few high level coaches RX brown rice at all.

To be clear OP, I'm not saying to eat shit carbs. Don't go eating burgers and fries all the time. Here and there sure, it'll help push your caloric intake up. But don't overdo it.

I am saying eat white rice for sure, 100% serious

That or white or red potatoes, not sweet potatoes.

Complex carbs are slow for uptake and do not provide what you can get with starchy carbs.

And I never seen a real coach ever use complex carbs.
 

MonsterMaker

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I agree 100% man. Eat clean for the most part, nothing worse than eating a burger and fries then trying to lift the same day lol. It's good here and there.

Try swapping out the brown rice for a few days though. Leave it in for one meal, before I had GI problems I had good luck with having it in one meal with low fats in that meal. Just replace it with other clean carbs and see how it goes. Especially pre workout try white rice with some added fats like evoo or mac nut oil. Sits much lighter in the stomach than anything else

What you think about whole grain oat breads? Been inhaling that stuff lately. And sweet potato to get my carbs up. Getting over my fear of carb consumption has made a dramatic difference in my energy this past week, seriously it’s insane.

Had the most aggressive work out this morning. Best I’ve had since starting, felt like I could tear the dumbbells in half. I was literally shaking by the time I left, and could barely get my shirt off…things are looking up. Switching to a push pull split helped to. Most of the stuff I was doing today would have been towards the end of a full body after using up almost 80% of my energy, so I had just so much more drive.


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Bft84

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Okay, what's incorrect?

You aren't exactly incorrect or correct in your statements. You mix truth with half truths. It's reckless. That's what junk science does...

You would be a great personal trainer. Hey, no cardio. Eat doughnuts. Drink Soda. And look like me (except I taken a ton of Tren).

IDK bro, keep doing you.

I will say this, if you read over your posts, and came off less like an arrogant cock, it would be received better.

For someone who doesn't "appeal" to authority, you sure act like an authority.

name one thing I said that wasn’t a whole truth that isn’t backed up evidence? Do you not understand the LAW of thermodynamics? I don’t take tren or high doses of anything. You’re accusing me because you never managed to not look like shit because you don’t know what you’re talking about. I don’t act like an authority it’s everything I say is fact. Full stop. I’ve had very happy people that I’ve helped because they didn’t have to change their entire life or give up things they enjoyed in order to look better and be healthier. Do donuts make people fat? Does any single food or drink make someone fat or out of shape? Is cardio a requirement to losing weight and improving body composition?
 

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All great advice given. Only thing I can add is years ago I would juice myself and always got minimal gains. Probably just enough to keep me coming back. Then I got into something that required me to have coaches and trainers and a nutritionist. These guys and girls all taught me how and when to eat, how to train for either size or strength or at times both. They taught me how to use AAS but only as a catalyst to become even better at whatever. As soon as all that happened I started to grow like a bad weed. So much so that there were many cycles I had to back off of because I was gaining too much for my profession. It’s all about learning my man. Now even though I’m old and retired I’m still learning. Since I’ve been here guys like Max, Wes, Wesley Swolle, Hot Rod, Vision, Multi. All have given me valuable info that even now has made my gains even better. All the wisdom is here bro you just gotta take it in.
 

Augustine5I

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Since I’ve been here guys like Max, Wes, Wesley Swolle, Hot Rod, Vision, Multi. All have given me valuable info that even now has made my gains even better. All the wisdom is here bro you just gotta take it in.

You left out Bft84. lolz
 

Bft84

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According to him, it isn't necessary to eat clean. A calorie is a calorie.

Your just confused. He simplified it for us.

I just hope some newbie doesn't view this thread and his post and come to the conclusion that they can eat just about anything and look like him.

Bc that is how he comes across.

He is revolutionized the industry...taken clean eating and thrown it out the window.

A piece of cake = grilled vegetables so long as they are both 300 calories. Who knew??

Keep an eye out for this guy, next Rich Piana.
😂 300 cals are 300cals. You can get fat on vegetables but good luck eating enough too. They’re not the same nutrient content obviously. Again, because you’re old and at this point I’m convinced are either retarded or senile, I’m talking about losing weight and gaining weight. Now if 2 people went on a diet and lost the same amount of weight but one person did it with McDonalds abd the one did it with veggies,fruits,chicken, fish, etc. then yes the one who ate the whole food diet would have better health markers and feel better. But they would lose the same amount of weight. A calorie is nothing more than a unit of energy. Do you understand? Also if one person got fat on Whole Foods and someone reached a healthy body fat percentage on “junk” the person who reached a healthy bf would be healthier.
 

Bft84

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You left out Bft84. lolz
Let’s see what you’ve done? You’re just another skinny fat user on the internet with no experience and only parrot what others have told you. You have no knowledge. You have no application. You don’t even know how to read a study which is why you think there’s one out there that will support any point. You talk shit but can’t rebut a single thing I’ve said. You use juice too right? Let’s see what youve done with your physique. My health markers are damn near perfect. I don’t use a lot of drugs, I train hard, damn hard, and I don’t adhere to restrictive dieting. 🤔So let’s see what have you done with your physique?
 
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