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Anyone else coming off/PCT for the new year?

ArgonCoagulator

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Get Shredded!
My last shot was 12/23/2019 of 100mg of sustanon, so I tank after 5 days. It's been 12 days off so far and I'm doing much better than my last two attempts at coming off. My energy is tanked, but my libido is definitely pretty good considering the low energy. I'm doing Wendler 531 and strength is still good but recovery is longer, weight is the same, 195lbs.

--My PCT--

HCG 500iu/day 20 days (begins 1 week BEFORE last shot)

Clomid 50mg day 30 days (begins 1 week AFTER last shot) *begin 2 weeks after if u were on 500mg+

Nolva 20mg/day 30 days (*begin 1 week after last shot)

AI - low dose throughout 20 day HCG cycle.

As you can see the first 6 days on SERMS are also while still on HCG but I recently listened to a podcast with Dr. Scally and he says it's good to introduce the SERMS before you stop HCG so you can get the brain portion of your HPTA active, since ideally HCG has already gotten your testicles active. Basically, you don't want to come off HCG, then start SERMS and experience an LH/test lag while the SERMS are still kicking in.
"Power PCT actually has you on SERMS the entire 20 days while on HCG, then only an additional 10 more days of clomid and nolva for another 25, which I thought may be inadequate time on SERMS only. I basically took some of his ideas but not the outrageous doses he recommends, as he is an MIT/Harvard educated Dr so we shouldn't completely write him off.

I plan to come off for about 6 weeks twice a year. Keeps Dem balls really pumpin'! HCG is good but nothing beats coming off totally.
 

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I think it would make more sense to stay on TRT and use hcg then after boys working come off both and use Clomid and nolva... hcg is suppressive so pointless off gear but nolva sort of helps to counter at low dose hcg into pct but new studies show hcg only on or else suppressive...
Can look for research but time short
 

ArgonCoagulator

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I think it would make more sense to stay on TRT and use hcg then after boys working come off both and use Clomid and nolva... hcg is suppressive so pointless off gear but nolva sort of helps to counter at low dose hcg into pct but new studies show hcg only on or else suppressive...
Can look for research but time short

Yeah Dr. Rand says to run HCG 3-6 weeks before stopping TRT to get your boys "up and running". I only did a week because I just wanted to come off and the timing of acquiring HCG wasn't favorable. Who knows what is ideal, I based my PCT more along the lines of Scally's, which lays it out pretty simply and is backed by alot of clinical trials and the medical field actually accepts it. I know Serms aren't as effective while on HCG, but it's good to get them circulating before ceasing HCG so your brain is ready to go once you stop the HCG. As far as HCG off T, I've heard conflict long theories that it may be more effective off gear, so I pull mine out to a week or two after coming off and blend it into my Serms.
 

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Here is Dr. Scally's PCT.
The doses are
HCG 2000iu EOD
Clomid 100mg, tapered to 50mg
Nolva 40mg, tapered to 20mg

Definitely extreme and many won't agree with HCG started after last shot along with SERMS while on HCG but it seems to work. Are their better, more efficient ways to do it? Probably. Are any of us MIT/Harvard educated? No. Lol
 

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Muscle mechanic

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Here is Dr. Scally's PCT.
The doses are
HCG 2000iu EOD
Clomid 100mg, tapered to 50mg
Nolva 40mg, tapered to 20mg

Definitely extreme and many won't agree with HCG started after last shot along with SERMS while on HCG but it seems to work. Are their better, more efficient ways to do it? Probably. Are any of us MIT/Harvard educated? No. Lol
Those are to jump dead boys after cycle...
They are to confirm if system working then see if worth it really... hcg will see if dead or not by bloods after cycle read them all.

Best to use hcg with cycle or blast keep going or low charge on batteries while parked in shed.
Hcg mimic false suppressive signal to LH and fsh... so is test etc...
Start boys on gear then stop at 3 weeks before hcg and test, then use Clomid 200 few days to week then 100mg 2 weeks then 50mg 3 weeks or long term..
Nolva 40mg day with clomid 2 weeks then 20mg 3 weeks....
Hcg better to use with trt for as long as possible... or just blast or cruise with hcg for few months then come off serms...

Anyone who plans to come off hcg 2x week 300iu 2x wk on gear stop 3 weeks before than Nolva and clomid... this is latest research will look for it
 

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If you're on TRT, why even mess with the HCG?
Either be on TRT or you're running really long low dose cycles IMO.

Coming on and off is probably more detrimental than just taking 150-200mg every week forever. But that's just my thought.
Most people on TRT don't come off.
Clomid is a gross nasty drug, if I was going to be on TRT (which I am) I would never ever use clomid again.
 
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BigJym

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Sounds to me like you are enduring 6 weeks of misery 2X per year for absolutely no reason. Just use HCG and/or FLH if you want to keep your nuts up and keep inj the test.
I've been on for 5 years and don't notice any difference in balls size, never used HCG.

- - - Updated - - -

Sounds to me like you are enduring 6 weeks of misery 2X per year for absolutely no reason. Just use HCG and/or FLH if you want to keep your nuts up and keep inj the test.
I've been on for 5 years and don't notice any difference in balls size, never used HCG. Maybe I just got little nuts to begin with though.
 

Muscle mechanic

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Anyway this is new way i think found right write up...
*H.C.G. During Your Steroid Cycle ~VERSUS~ H.C.G. Post Steroid Cycle. BIG DIFFERENCE !!!

H.C.G. During Your Steroid Cycle ~VERSUS~ H.C.G. Post Steroid Cycle. (pct)

When To Start Using HCG?

Post Cycle Therapy aka "P.C.T." is essential after any steroid cycle. There has been a lot of great PCT protocols over the years, and many bodybuilders , and Athletes alike has garnered success with following some of these etched in stone protocols. Never-the-less, anything and most everything can be and will be approved upon at some point, and I intend to show you the most effective way to recover from an Anabolic / Androgenic Steroid Cycle.

You Can NOT Have Proper PCT without Proper HCG! So lets address the Misconception and Misuse of Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (hCG) and show our loyal ....... Readers the most efficient way to use HCG for the fastest and most complete recovery.


HCG Reveil –
Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCg) is a peptide hormone that mimics the action of luteinizing hormone (LH). The testicles (testes) are then Stimulated by this (LH) Luteinizing Hormone to produce testosterone.
NOTE: LH is the primary signal sent from the pituitary to the testes, which stimulates the leydig cells within the testes to produce testosterone.


When steroids (exogenous hormones) are introduces to the body, A QUICK DECLINE in LH Levels Occur. The cessation of an LH signal from the pituitary causes the testes to stop producing testosterone. This process leads to a quick onset of testicular degeneration, by way of a reduction of leydig cell volume, and is then followed by rapid reductions in intra-testicular testosterone (ITT), peroxisomes, and Insulin-like factor 3 (INSL3) – All important bio-markers and factors for proper testicular function and testosterone production.


A small maintenance dosage of HCG ran alongside the steroid cycle can stop this "DEGENERATION" before it ever occurs!
Like myself, most steroid users have been engrained to believe that HCG should be used POST STEROID CYCLE, During Their PCT.

Upon reviewing the science and basic endocrinology you will see that a faster and more complete recovery is possible if hCG is ran*during*a cycle.
Firstly, we must understand the clinical history of hCG to understand its purpose and its most efficient application. Many popular “steroid profiles” advocate using hCG at a dose of 2500-5000iu once or twice a week. These were the kind of dosages used in the historical (1960’s) hCG studies for hypogonadal men who had reduced testicular sensitivity due to*prolonged LH deficiency. A prolonged LH deficiency causes the testes to desensitize, requiring a higher hCG dose for ample stimulation. In men with normal LH levels and normal testicular sensitivity, the maximum increase of testosterone is seen from a dose of only 250iu, with minimal increases obtained from 500iu or even 5000iu. (It appears the testes maximum secretion of testosterone is about 140% above their normal capacity.)


If you have allowed your testes to desensitize over the length of a typical steroid cycle, (8-16 weeks) then you would require a higher dose to elicit a response in an attempt to restore normal testicular size and function – but there is cost to this, and a high probability that you won’t regain*full*testicular function.



One term that is critical to understand is*testosterone secretion capacity*which is synonymous to*testicular sensitivity.
This is the amount of testosterone your testes can produce from any given LH or hCG stimulation.*Therefore, if you have reduced testosterone secretion capacity (reduced testicular sensitivity), it will take more LH or hCG stimulation to produce the same result as if you had normal testosterone secretion capacity.

If you reduce your testosterone secretion capacity too much, then no amount of LH or hCG stimulation will trigger normal testosterone production – and this leads to permanently reduced testosterone production.


To get an idea of how quickly you can reduce your testosterone secretion capacity from your average steroid cycle, consider this: LH levels are rapidly decreased by the 2nd day of steroid administration. (2,9,10) By shutting down the LH signal and allowing the testis to be non-functional over a 12-16 week period, leydig cell volume decreases 90%, ITT decreases 94%, INSL3 decreases 95%, while the capacity to secrete testosterone decreases as much as 98%.


Note: visually analyzing testes size is a poor method of judging your actual testicular function, since testicular size is not directly related to the ability to secrete testosterone. This is because the leydig cells, which are the primary sites of testosterone secretion, only make up about 10% of the total testicular volume. Therefore, when the testes may only appear 5-10% smaller, the testes ability to secrete testosterone upon LH or hCG stimulation can actually be significantly reduced to 98% of their normal production. (3-5) The point here is to not judge testosterone secretion capacity by testicular size.



The decreased testosterone secretion capacity caused by steroid use was well demonstrated in a study on power athletes who used steroids for 16 weeks, and were then administered 4500iu hCG post cycle. It was found that the steroid users were about 20 times less responsive to hCG, when compared to normal men who did not use steroids.

In other words, their testosterone secretion capacity was dramatically reduced because they did not receive an LH signal for 16 weeks. The testes essentially became desensitized and crippled. Case studies with steroid using patients show that aggressive long-term treatment with hCG at dosages as high as 10,000iu E3D for 12 weeks were unable to return full testicular size. Another study with men using low dose steroids for 6 weeks showed unsuccessful return of Insulin-like factor-3 (INSL3) concentration in the testes upon 5000iu/wk of HCG treatment for 12 weeks (6) (INSL3 is an important biomarker for testosterone production potential and sperm production.



These studies show that postponing HCG usage until the end of a steroid cycle increases your need for a higher dose of hCG, and decreases your odds of a full recovery.
As a consequence to using a higher dose of hCG at the end of a cycle, estrogen will be increased disproportionately to testosterone, which then causes further HPTA suppression (from high estrogen) while increasing the risk of gyno. For example, high doses of hCG have been found to raise estradiol up to 165%, while only raising testosterone 140%. Higher doses of hCG are also known to reduce LH receptor concentration and degrade the enzymes responsible for testosterone synthesis within the testes -- the last thing someone wants during*recovery. While these negative effects of hCG can be partly mitigated by the use of a SERM such as tamoxifen, it will create further problems associated with using a toxic SERM (covered in another article).



In light of the above evidence, it becomes obvious that we must take preventative measures to avoid this testicular degeneration. We must protect our testicular sensitivity.*Besides, with hCG being so readily available, and such a painless shot, it makes you wonder why anyone*wouldn’t*use it on cycle.


Based on studies with normal men using steroids, 100iu HCG administered everyday was enough to preserve full testicular function and ITT levels, without causing desensitization typically associated with higher doses of hCG.*It is important that low-dose hCG is started*before*testicular sensitivity is reduced, which appears to rapidly manifest within the first 2-3 weeks of steroid use. Also, it’s important to discontinue the hCG before you start PCT so your leydig cells are given a chance to re-sensitize to your body’s own LH production. (To help further enhance testicular sensitivity, the dietary supplement*Toco-8*may be used)


A more convenient alternative to the above recommendation would be a twice a week shot of 200iu hCG, or possibly a once a week shot of 500iu. However, it is most desirable to adhere to a lower more frequent dose of hCG to mimic the body’s natural LH release and minimize estrogen conversion. If you are starting hCG late in the cycle, one could calculate a rough estimate for their required hCG ‘kick starting’ dosage by multiplying 40iu x days of LH absence, since the testes will be desensitized, thus requiring a higher dose. (ie. 40iu x 60 days = 2400iu HCG dose)


Note: If following the on cycle hCG protocol, hCG should NOT be used for PCT.

Overview
For preservation of testicular sensitivity, use 100iu hCG ED starting 7 days after your first AAS dose. At the end of the cycle, drop the hCG two weeks before the AAS clear the system. For example, you would drop hCG about the same time as your last Testosterone Enanthate shot. Or, if you are ending the cycle with orals, you would drop the hCG about 10 days before your last oral dose. This will allow for a sudden and even clearance in hormone levels, while initiating LH and FSH production from the pituitary, to begin stimulating your testes to produce testosterone. Remember, recovery doesn’t begin until you are off hCG since your body will not release its own LH until the hCG has cleared the system.
In conclusion, we have learned that utilizing*hCG*during a steroid cycle will significantly prevent testicular degeneration. This helps create a seamless transition from “on cycle” to “off cycle” thus avoiding the post cycle crash.
 

Muscle mechanic

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If you're on TRT, why even mess with the HCG?
Either be on TRT or you're running really long low dose cycles IMO.

Coming on and off is probably more detrimental than just taking 150-200mg every week forever. But that's just my thought.
Most people on TRT don't come off.
Clomid is a gross nasty drug, if I was going to be on TRT (which I am) I would never ever use clomid again.
Agree 100% the stress isn't worth it. I am never coming off trt...
 

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If you're on TRT, why even mess with the HCG?
Either be on TRT or you're running really long low dose cycles IMO.

Coming on and off is probably more detrimental than just taking 150-200mg every week forever. But that's just my thought.
Most people on TRT don't come off.
Clomid is a gross nasty drug, if I was going to be on TRT (which I am) I would never ever use clomid again.

I'm not on TRT, I just hadn't come completely off for 2+ years. I just want to give my body a break off everything a couple times a year and I don't want to have to pin HCG indefinitely while on gear. I know that is ideal, but I really don't want to have to continually buy HCG, extra pins and have to pin more stuff all the time. I do however run it periodically just not constantly. It's good to come off, even for just 4-6 weeks it's not gonna kill ya!
 

ArgonCoagulator

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Sounds to me like you are enduring 6 weeks of misery 2X per year for absolutely no reason. Just use HCG and/or FLH if you want to keep your nuts up and keep inj the test.
I've been on for 5 years and don't notice any difference in balls size, never used HCG.

- - - Updated - - -

Sounds to me like you are enduring 6 weeks of misery 2X per year for absolutely no reason. Just use HCG and/or FLH if you want to keep your nuts up and keep inj the test.
I've been on for 5 years and don't notice any difference in balls size, never used HCG. Maybe I just got little nuts to begin with though.

Lol it's hardly misery, I feel fine actually. I just like knowing I can come off and handle life without depending on gear, like I'm man enough to be natural at 35 and I probably am lucky to be able to do so without suffering.
 

ArgonCoagulator

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Anyway this is new way i think found right write up...
*H.C.G. During Your Steroid Cycle ~VERSUS~ H.C.G. Post Steroid Cycle. BIG DIFFERENCE !!!

H.C.G. During Your Steroid Cycle ~VERSUS~ H.C.G. Post Steroid Cycle. (pct)

When To Start Using HCG?

Post Cycle Therapy aka "P.C.T." is essential after any steroid cycle. There has been a lot of great PCT protocols over the years, and many bodybuilders , and Athletes alike has garnered success with following some of these etched in stone protocols. Never-the-less, anything and most everything can be and will be approved upon at some point, and I intend to show you the most effective way to recover from an Anabolic / Androgenic Steroid Cycle.

You Can NOT Have Proper PCT without Proper HCG! So lets address the Misconception and Misuse of Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (hCG) and show our loyal ....... Readers the most efficient way to use HCG for the fastest and most complete recovery.


HCG Reveil –
Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCg) is a peptide hormone that mimics the action of luteinizing hormone (LH). The testicles (testes) are then Stimulated by this (LH) Luteinizing Hormone to produce testosterone.
NOTE: LH is the primary signal sent from the pituitary to the testes, which stimulates the leydig cells within the testes to produce testosterone.


When steroids (exogenous hormones) are introduces to the body, A QUICK DECLINE in LH Levels Occur. The cessation of an LH signal from the pituitary causes the testes to stop producing testosterone. This process leads to a quick onset of testicular degeneration, by way of a reduction of leydig cell volume, and is then followed by rapid reductions in intra-testicular testosterone (ITT), peroxisomes, and Insulin-like factor 3 (INSL3) – All important bio-markers and factors for proper testicular function and testosterone production.


A small maintenance dosage of HCG ran alongside the steroid cycle can stop this "DEGENERATION" before it ever occurs!
Like myself, most steroid users have been engrained to believe that HCG should be used POST STEROID CYCLE, During Their PCT.

Upon reviewing the science and basic endocrinology you will see that a faster and more complete recovery is possible if hCG is ran*during*a cycle.
Firstly, we must understand the clinical history of hCG to understand its purpose and its most efficient application. Many popular “steroid profiles” advocate using hCG at a dose of 2500-5000iu once or twice a week. These were the kind of dosages used in the historical (1960’s) hCG studies for hypogonadal men who had reduced testicular sensitivity due to*prolonged LH deficiency. A prolonged LH deficiency causes the testes to desensitize, requiring a higher hCG dose for ample stimulation. In men with normal LH levels and normal testicular sensitivity, the maximum increase of testosterone is seen from a dose of only 250iu, with minimal increases obtained from 500iu or even 5000iu. (It appears the testes maximum secretion of testosterone is about 140% above their normal capacity.)


If you have allowed your testes to desensitize over the length of a typical steroid cycle, (8-16 weeks) then you would require a higher dose to elicit a response in an attempt to restore normal testicular size and function – but there is cost to this, and a high probability that you won’t regain*full*testicular function.



One term that is critical to understand is*testosterone secretion capacity*which is synonymous to*testicular sensitivity.
This is the amount of testosterone your testes can produce from any given LH or hCG stimulation.*Therefore, if you have reduced testosterone secretion capacity (reduced testicular sensitivity), it will take more LH or hCG stimulation to produce the same result as if you had normal testosterone secretion capacity.

If you reduce your testosterone secretion capacity too much, then no amount of LH or hCG stimulation will trigger normal testosterone production – and this leads to permanently reduced testosterone production.


To get an idea of how quickly you can reduce your testosterone secretion capacity from your average steroid cycle, consider this: LH levels are rapidly decreased by the 2nd day of steroid administration. (2,9,10) By shutting down the LH signal and allowing the testis to be non-functional over a 12-16 week period, leydig cell volume decreases 90%, ITT decreases 94%, INSL3 decreases 95%, while the capacity to secrete testosterone decreases as much as 98%.


Note: visually analyzing testes size is a poor method of judging your actual testicular function, since testicular size is not directly related to the ability to secrete testosterone. This is because the leydig cells, which are the primary sites of testosterone secretion, only make up about 10% of the total testicular volume. Therefore, when the testes may only appear 5-10% smaller, the testes ability to secrete testosterone upon LH or hCG stimulation can actually be significantly reduced to 98% of their normal production. (3-5) The point here is to not judge testosterone secretion capacity by testicular size.



The decreased testosterone secretion capacity caused by steroid use was well demonstrated in a study on power athletes who used steroids for 16 weeks, and were then administered 4500iu hCG post cycle. It was found that the steroid users were about 20 times less responsive to hCG, when compared to normal men who did not use steroids.

In other words, their testosterone secretion capacity was dramatically reduced because they did not receive an LH signal for 16 weeks. The testes essentially became desensitized and crippled. Case studies with steroid using patients show that aggressive long-term treatment with hCG at dosages as high as 10,000iu E3D for 12 weeks were unable to return full testicular size. Another study with men using low dose steroids for 6 weeks showed unsuccessful return of Insulin-like factor-3 (INSL3) concentration in the testes upon 5000iu/wk of HCG treatment for 12 weeks (6) (INSL3 is an important biomarker for testosterone production potential and sperm production.



These studies show that postponing HCG usage until the end of a steroid cycle increases your need for a higher dose of hCG, and decreases your odds of a full recovery.
As a consequence to using a higher dose of hCG at the end of a cycle, estrogen will be increased disproportionately to testosterone, which then causes further HPTA suppression (from high estrogen) while increasing the risk of gyno. For example, high doses of hCG have been found to raise estradiol up to 165%, while only raising testosterone 140%. Higher doses of hCG are also known to reduce LH receptor concentration and degrade the enzymes responsible for testosterone synthesis within the testes -- the last thing someone wants during*recovery. While these negative effects of hCG can be partly mitigated by the use of a SERM such as tamoxifen, it will create further problems associated with using a toxic SERM (covered in another article).



In light of the above evidence, it becomes obvious that we must take preventative measures to avoid this testicular degeneration. We must protect our testicular sensitivity.*Besides, with hCG being so readily available, and such a painless shot, it makes you wonder why anyone*wouldn’t*use it on cycle.


Based on studies with normal men using steroids, 100iu HCG administered everyday was enough to preserve full testicular function and ITT levels, without causing desensitization typically associated with higher doses of hCG.*It is important that low-dose hCG is started*before*testicular sensitivity is reduced, which appears to rapidly manifest within the first 2-3 weeks of steroid use. Also, it’s important to discontinue the hCG before you start PCT so your leydig cells are given a chance to re-sensitize to your body’s own LH production. (To help further enhance testicular sensitivity, the dietary supplement*Toco-8*may be used)


A more convenient alternative to the above recommendation would be a twice a week shot of 200iu hCG, or possibly a once a week shot of 500iu. However, it is most desirable to adhere to a lower more frequent dose of hCG to mimic the body’s natural LH release and minimize estrogen conversion. If you are starting hCG late in the cycle, one could calculate a rough estimate for their required hCG ‘kick starting’ dosage by multiplying 40iu x days of LH absence, since the testes will be desensitized, thus requiring a higher dose. (ie. 40iu x 60 days = 2400iu HCG dose)


Note: If following the on cycle hCG protocol, hCG should NOT be used for PCT.

Overview
For preservation of testicular sensitivity, use 100iu hCG ED starting 7 days after your first AAS dose. At the end of the cycle, drop the hCG two weeks before the AAS clear the system. For example, you would drop hCG about the same time as your last Testosterone Enanthate shot. Or, if you are ending the cycle with orals, you would drop the hCG about 10 days before your last oral dose. This will allow for a sudden and even clearance in hormone levels, while initiating LH and FSH production from the pituitary, to begin stimulating your testes to produce testosterone. Remember, recovery doesn’t begin until you are off hCG since your body will not release its own LH until the hCG has cleared the system.
In conclusion, we have learned that utilizing*hCG*during a steroid cycle will significantly prevent testicular degeneration. This helps create a seamless transition from “on cycle” to “off cycle” thus avoiding the post cycle crash.

Great info here. HCG throughout the cycle is always ideal. Although sometimes not practical.
 

Muscle mechanic

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Nice write up M M
I robbed it... there is one more I can't find with newer research compared... I can't get into board as old site rep need password reset to be out site rep forum ... Lol
Haven't tried or humbled myself to ask yet. Lol
 

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I robbed it... there is one more I can't find with newer research compared... I can't get into board as old site rep need password reset to be out site rep forum ... Lol
Haven't tried or humbled myself to ask yet. Lol

Man I really appreciate that article. I thought I knew a thing or two about PCT, but I didn't realize it was THAT crucial to stay on low dose HCG on cycle. I mean I knew it was better, but I didn't know kick-starting shutdown nuts would require massive doses of HCG. In my case, mine have been shutdown for many months, but screw it I'll be back on gear in a few weeks anyways.. LOL I'll survive on SERMS until then hopefully..
 

Muscle mechanic

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Man I really appreciate that article. I thought I knew a thing or two about PCT, but I didn't realize it was THAT crucial to stay on low dose HCG on cycle. I mean I knew it was better, but I didn't know kick-starting shutdown nuts would require massive doses of HCG. In my case, mine have been shutdown for many months, but screw it I'll be back on gear in a few weeks anyways.. LOL I'll survive on SERMS until then hopefully..
Anytime brother, if I read it and good info I share, y'all brothers in iron we need each other
 

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Man I really appreciate that article. I thought I knew a thing or two about PCT, but I didn't realize it was THAT crucial to stay on low dose HCG on cycle. I mean I knew it was better, but I didn't know kick-starting shutdown nuts would require massive doses of HCG. In my case, mine have been shutdown for many months, but screw it I'll be back on gear in a few weeks anyways.. LOL I'll survive on SERMS until then hopefully..

i don’t stay on HCG because I’ve read several studies that say you can desensitize to it but I do run a 5000iu vial every second or third month at 500iu eod or e3d.
 

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i don’t stay on HCG because I’ve read several studies that say you can desensitize to it but I do run a 5000iu vial every second or third month at 500iu eod or e3d.

do you run anything for FSH?
 

Jswole220

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do you run anything for FSH?
No. I’m not trying to have anymore kids at this time but eventually I will. I had healthy Twin boys actually they were the biggest born in my state the year we had them and at that time I was very reckless with my aas usage. I was about 2 to 2.5 years into a 3 year blast. I ran high doses the whole time like an idiot and justified it because my blood work never came back terrible. At the time I got my wife pregnant I was running high test around 1g, tren ace, oral Winstrol and proviron. I didn’t think it was going to happen and certainly wasn’t expecting two mini versions of myself and being big and healthy. The only thing that changed was my wife stopped taking birth control. Like I said we were not necessarily trying to have kids but we also didn’t care if we did. They are the best thing that happened to me and definitely a huge blessing. Also just to be clear I didn’t stay on the same cycle the whole time. I swapped compounds every 2-3 months as well as switched test esters from e, cyp, sust, and sometimes adding prop or tne on top of the base.
 

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My last shot was 12/23/2019 of 100mg of sustanon, so I tank after 5 days. It's been 12 days off so far and I'm doing much better than my last two attempts at coming off. My energy is tanked, but my libido is definitely pretty good considering the low energy. I'm doing Wendler 531 and strength is still good but recovery is longer, weight is the same, 195lbs.

--My PCT--

HCG 500iu/day 20 days (begins 1 week BEFORE last shot)

Clomid 50mg day 30 days (begins 1 week AFTER last shot) *begin 2 weeks after if u were on 500mg+

Nolva 20mg/day 30 days (*begin 1 week after last shot)

AI - low dose throughout 20 day HCG cycle.

As you can see the first 6 days on SERMS are also while still on HCG but I recently listened to a podcast with Dr. Scally and he says it's good to introduce the SERMS before you stop HCG so you can get the brain portion of your HPTA active, since ideally HCG has already gotten your testicles active. Basically, you don't want to come off HCG, then start SERMS and experience an LH/test lag while the SERMS are still kicking in.
"Power PCT actually has you on SERMS the entire 20 days while on HCG, then only an additional 10 more days of clomid and nolva for another 25, which I thought may be inadequate time on SERMS only. I basically took some of his ideas but not the outrageous doses he recommends, as he is an MIT/Harvard educated Dr so we shouldn't completely write him off.

I plan to come off for about 6 weeks twice a year. Keeps Dem balls really pumpin'! HCG is good but nothing beats coming off totally.
I’m actually doing the same thing right now bro. I’m on trt but I’ve been blasting and cruising for about 4-5 years now and honestly not doing enough cruising. I’m not trying to recover natural testosterone I doubt I could if I wanted to. I’m doing it more so to let myself clear out and start back with smaller doses. The lowest I’ve went on test other than cruising is 750mg and even some of my cruising was just low dose blasting.

I came off of all long esters already and I’m pinning test prop for about 10 more days. That will put me at 5 weeks since last pinning long esters. I’m also running HCG right now at 500iu eod and I started that about 9 days ago. After my last shot I’m going to run HCG at 500iu every day or 1,000iu EOD. I’m also gong to run nolvadex and clomid for 30 days than try to go an additional 30 days taking nothing at all. Like I said I’m doing it solely to clear out and start back with lower doses. I’m running the pct to hopefully make it more tolerable and get hopefully some sort of low natural production back. Once I finish this I’m going to start back on a low dose of testosterone probably around 250-300mg and cruise on that for about 1 month and then increase the dose of test a bit and add another compound to blast with.
 

KushCausedComa

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Get Shredded!
Imo you just took new year new me and raped it....

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ArgonCoagulator

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I’m actually doing the same thing right now bro. I’m on trt but I’ve been blasting and cruising for about 4-5 years now and honestly not doing enough cruising. I’m not trying to recover natural testosterone I doubt I could if I wanted to. I’m doing it more so to let myself clear out and start back with smaller doses. The lowest I’ve went on test other than cruising is 750mg and even some of my cruising was just low dose blasting.

I came off of all long esters already and I’m pinning test prop for about 10 more days. That will put me at 5 weeks since last pinning long esters. I’m also running HCG right now at 500iu eod and I started that about 9 days ago. After my last shot I’m going to run HCG at 500iu every day or 1,000iu EOD. I’m also gong to run nolvadex and clomid for 30 days than try to go an additional 30 days taking nothing at all. Like I said I’m doing it solely to clear out and start back with lower doses. I’m running the pct to hopefully make it more tolerable and get hopefully some sort of low natural production back. Once I finish this I’m going to start back on a low dose of testosterone probably around 250-300mg and cruise on that for about 1 month and then increase the dose of test a bit and add another compound to blast with.

There's conflicting info about HCG desensitizion, but I think it's universally agreed that a low maintenance dose is good to maintain testicular function and fertility while avoiding excess estrogen conversion and desensitizion, those problem usually occur once you go north of 500iu in a single day. I've found periodic use of HCG to be far better than nothing. Although I would like to dedicate to baby doses throughout the cycle, I'll probably take a month off here and there.

I don't really care about recovering full natty test either, for me the breaks off are just to give my body a break and hopefully resentize and make better gains once I blast again. The breaks from pinning are nice too. I'll try to do the 4-6 week breaks for every new year and maybe one later in the summer when natural testosterone levels are higher anyway. Congrats on the twin boys that's great! My wife talks about having twin girls.. lol
 

redwolf

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So if I understand this correctly, it is better to run hcg on cycle at low dose, then drop it in pct with your other aas, then start yur clomid and nolva? Is this the cliffa notes version?

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biggobshite

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im needing a pct for when i come off a Test Prop cycle. ive got arimidex because i heard to take .5mg a day of arimidex DURING cycle. but i have no idea what to take at the end of the cycle or how long to wait after the last shot to begin pct. i need someone to please explain to me in simplest terms or a routine for pct i need to do so i dont mess myself up. i know its just test p but it can still mess me up
 
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