• Hello, please REGISTER and become a member of our community! You will then be able to start threads, post comments and send messages to other members. Thanks!

A Endocrinologist’s reddit post ! So F’d up ! My Rant!

maxmuscle1

Registered User
Registered Member
Joined
Apr 4, 2015
Messages
22,954
Reaction score
17,579
Points
113
Get Shredded!
So I was looking at all the online & local mens health or Medical spa or Anti Aging HRT/TRT comments about pricing in 2021-2022. Just seeing all the different pricing structures & protocols (if they make you do all labs, buy Rx’s, accept insurance, etc) . The first thing I run across is a Endocrinologist, MD taking about how he makes guys go through a ton of money/testing and basically “100% trying to no prescribe testosterone for any man!”

Exact copy of his post on Reddit (it may help you avoid thinking about going to a top endo or urology clinic and stick with the places that actually want to help men!
————————————————————————-

As an Endocrinologist, I see a lot of men inappropriately started on testosterone therapy based on 1 low afternoon total value, etc. this is typically what I do:

I tell them that the diagnosis of low testosterone has specific criteria, and that it has many different causes.
I explain secondary vs primary, and the inability to do a proper work up while on testosterone therapy. After I tell them they could have pituitary disease/adenoma or testicular damage and the only way to tell the difference is to allow for proper evaluation, most men are fine to pause therapy. I also let them know I won’t prescribe T without a proper work up to ensure proper diagnosis/treatment.
I advise them to hold testosterone for 6-8 weeks, then follow the Endocrine Society guidelines (they also have a great app that walks through the diagnosis I will sometimes share with my patients as well). At the end of 6-8 weeks, I get an 8-9 AM total and free testosterone (free testosterone needs to be by equilibrium dialysis to be accurate). If low, I will repeat again with FSH/LH to identify source, and hct/psa to identify barriers to therapy. If primary I look for primary sources, if secondary I’ll get iron studies (I’ve caught a few hemochromatosis patients this way), check other pituitary labs, and will consider MRI.
Please always get a prolactin before starting or continuing therapy on a patient that has never had 1 checked (and in my experience a lot of these “Men’s health clinics” don’t check). If their low T is from hyperprolactinemia they don’t need T, they need cabergoline.
If they don’t qualify for therapy, I let them know that their symptoms aren’t from T deficiency because they don’t have T deficiency, and I let them know about potential issues (erythrocytosis, infertility, testicular shrinkage, prostate issues, etc). Most guys are comfortable stopping if that is the case. If not, I let them know I won’t be writing T bc it is not indicated, so a lot choose to go elsewhere. This can be frustrating, but at least you did the right thing medically.
If they DO qualify for therapy, I also discuss side effects and screen for OSA/prostate issues. If possible OSA, I do a STOP-BANG and refer for a sleep study. If positive, I wait 3 months after CPAP to see if resolution of low T and to make sure OSA doesn’t get worse on T therapy. If LUTS, I do an international prostate severity score and refer to Urology or advise PCP to manage before T is started.
Stopping this is hard. I try to do my part with each individual patient I see to at least make sure they are diagnosed correctly. There likely could be some reporting to medical boards since T is a controlled substance, but I’m not aware of any action against providers for T therapy.

On mobile if issues with formatting.
————————————————————————

Obviously he has been brainwashed by the US “Endocrine Society Guidelines” and definitely is a total F*****! Can you imagine all the appointments, labs, procedures, sleep studies, more labs, his short treatment (if any), and how he greases the Palms of every other type of provider in his city! That is truly what he is doing, he is trying to make himself a ton of money(and the other specialists he refers you too) . This is all due to greed, poorly passed laws based on completely false information provided by FDA/GOV/IOC:WADA(Olympic committee) WHO/CDC & Professional Sports Organizations. These Physicians and theirMD/NURSING Associations plus the acronym centers should be sued for writing these massively fucked up Guidelines that almost 98% of all men couldn’t afford let alone make all these appointments.

**I was so irate reading his post, but did not comment. I would like to see equal (female and males hormones classifications as an Rx medication not a Schedule 3 drug which puts you in Legal Trouble, the same prescribing guidelines and accessibility for all practitioners and the male patients .

Depo-Provera, Depo-SubQ Provera 104, All Progestins/Progesterones/conjugated estrogen and all HRT are not even scheduled for females unless they have male hormone inside, they are just an Rx drug . In fact, an OTC hormone is available for females at most stores(Levonorgestrel) Plan B for emergency contraceptive purposes. Where is our oral or injectable male contraceptive (Rx or OTC) ? They have only had 45 yrs of clinical trials & 10’s of thousands of studies yet…NOT ONE MALE HORMONE HAS BEEN AVAILABLE FOR CONTRACEPTIVE PURPOSES! They have made at least 100 drug formulas using types of male hormones. MENT:Trestolone (7α-methyl-19-nortestosterone) and it’s cousin DMAU have been the closest to being approved but they don’t want ANY male androgens/anabolic hormones to be EVER available for men. Trest has been studied since the early 90’s as a male contraceptive. Mixes of esters and mg can be over 90% effective . Nestorone (NES) and Testosterone (T) Combination Gel for Male Contraception is still in trials after 10yrs !

As of Apr 12 2022 , here is what they are making for us - Male Birth Control Pill Expected to Start Human Trials This Year
The new non-hormonal pill was 99 percent effective at preventing pregnancy in mice ! They won’t give us hormones and it’s all due to money and lies . More than 12,000 presentations & formulas have been made on oral or injectable male contraceptive.
Currently, men have only two effective options for birth control: male condoms and vasectomy!


Max
Mice drug
 

nannybooboo

Registered User
Registered Member
Joined
Sep 6, 2012
Messages
170
Reaction score
32
Points
28
I'd also bet that he would be one of the 1st people to prescribe puberty blockers for 12 year olds who "feel" like they were "assigned" the wrong gender at birth.

I consider myself lucky to have found an open minded Dr who treats me like an adult and cuts out the bullshit. Otherwise- I'd just stick to underground sources just on principle to not have to deal with an endocrinologist like in the article.
 

Milford King

Twat Waffle Inspector
Registered Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2018
Messages
13,340
Reaction score
11,018
Points
113
Considering men are hated in todays society I wouldn’t trust any over the counter contraceptive or hormone for men … especially if it’s coming from Pfizer or some other big pharma company.

It prolly make your dick fall off or make you gay and all up in your feelers 24/7.

Stay strong Max! You da man brudda!!
 

Milford King

Twat Waffle Inspector
Registered Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2018
Messages
13,340
Reaction score
11,018
Points
113
My go around with an endo was very similar to what the Reddit endos circus looked like.

She straight up lied to me and I went off like a moron… I felt a little embarrassed afterwards but… eh fuck it

So first I get an appointment for testosterone testing… I go fasted in the am (when we all know male hormones are peaked) Because I wake up in the early am and sleep in the evening… I test at 27ng/dL … I get another appointment to meet with the endo 4 weeks out. Yeah… 4 friggin weeks … the day before that appointment arrives they call me and tell me I have to retest this time in the afternoon because “testosterone peaks in the afternoon” (I say oh really… what if I worked nights and my afternoon is actually at like 7am?) as if the time of day has anything to do with it, it’s relative to when you sleep and when you wake which is dependent on the individual… but seriously I already waited 4 weeks for the appointment and they cancel and say I need to retest. So I could see the writing on the wall.

And that’s where my buddies here at ASF (GC and monster) come in, seriously life savers. I hate pinning every week but… it’s better than running around with 20 nano grams per deciliter of man hood running through my veins.

End rant.
 

Arnold

Numero Uno
Staff member
Administrator
Joined
Jun 16, 2012
Messages
26,534
Reaction score
17,601
Points
113
Most MD’s think they’re gods and I went to an endocrinologist once and I wanted to punch his arrogant bloated fat face.
 

Arnold

Numero Uno
Staff member
Administrator
Joined
Jun 16, 2012
Messages
26,534
Reaction score
17,601
Points
113
My testosterone levels were around 250ng/dl at age 30 and he said I was normal.
 

maxmuscle1

Registered User
Registered Member
Joined
Apr 4, 2015
Messages
22,954
Reaction score
17,579
Points
113
Considering men are hated in todays society I wouldn’t trust any over the counter contraceptive or hormone for men … especially if it’s coming from Pfizer or some other big pharma company.

It prolly make your dick fall off or make you gay and all up in your feelers 24/7.

Stay strong Max! You da man brudda!!

Appreciate it and , I won’t ever buy some mice meds from Big Ph. - odds are it’s a castration drug .


Max
 

maxmuscle1

Registered User
Registered Member
Joined
Apr 4, 2015
Messages
22,954
Reaction score
17,579
Points
113
My go around with an endo was very similar to what the Reddit endos circus looked like.

She straight up lied to me and I went off like a moron… I felt a little embarrassed afterwards but… eh fuck it

So first I get an appointment for testosterone testing… I go fasted in the am (when we all know male hormones are peaked) Because I wake up in the early am and sleep in the evening… I test at 27ng/dL … I get another appointment to meet with the endo 4 weeks out. Yeah… 4 friggin weeks … the day before that appointment arrives they call me and tell me I have to retest this time in the afternoon because “testosterone peaks in the afternoon” (I say oh really… what if I worked nights and my afternoon is actually at like 7am?) as if the time of day has anything to do with it, it’s relative to when you sleep and when you wake which is dependent on the individual… but seriously I already waited 4 weeks for the appointment and they cancel and say I need to retest. So I could see the writing on the wall.

And that’s where my buddies here at ASF (GC and monster) come in, seriously life savers. I hate pinning every week but… it’s better than running around with 20 nano grams per deciliter of man hood running through my veins.

End rant.

I did an experiment and took 40mg a day of Dbol, then quit for 14 days , took my test and it dropped my total:free test into low range (good enough for TRT. That was years ago but, if I stop - I produce Jack & Squat . They just don’t produce since I’ve been in TRT since age 17 (medically) . It’s sad because my anti aging/plastic surgery spa that I’ve gone to forever, barely costs anything , used my insurances, and only makes me get 2 bloods per year for them.

Defy had some great benefits that most don’t know about. But super expensive to get going for the first year. If they accepted our owm bloodwork , it would be perfect. Titan /Royal/Viking Alternative(all different)/TRT Nation/e-hormones /Swole Lean/Matrix/Aspire; to name a few . For normal cash pay medicines & ONE TIME online MD visit, Honeybeehealth is pretty cheap for hormones, ai/caber/heart/ sleeping , amd other meds (for people without insurance).
They are the pharmacy but they hook you up w a e-visit w a physician. Most states but NY/NJ always seem to not be apart of these telemedicine programs.

Max
 

Glycomann

Registered User
Registered Member
Joined
Jun 22, 2012
Messages
1,005
Reaction score
984
Points
113
I sort of lucked out. I first called around to compounding pharmacies and asked what local doctors use compounding pharma for TRT. I got a list of names and went to one of them that was close by. At that time I had been on TRT through one of the FLA places and the doc was upping the dose and upping the dose. They had me up to 400 mg/w and I was seeing blood work go a bit sideways. So I went completely off for3 months and went to this doc and told him what I had gone through. I tested out at 300 ng/dL and we attempted Androgel. It was weird. I applied it to my forearms and my forearms grew. Still, when I tested it came back 299 ng/dL. So the doc says "well that was a failure". That day his nurse came in and gave me a 300 mg shot and a script for 100 mg/w. I've been with him for 9 years.
 

CoachCabo

Registered User
Registered Member
Joined
Feb 22, 2017
Messages
4,388
Reaction score
4,302
Points
113
The endo at the VA was wanting tests every three months to see what would happen with my 138 test and 450 estrogen. I asked how long they’d be comfortable with my hormones this out of whack. The answer was “You can go 6 to 9 months like this and you’ll be fine. So I followed up with “Would you be happy to let a woman go this far out of balance for that long?”

When, after 3 months, my test went up to a whopping 200, they said I was improving and rather than give me an Rx for test, they wanted me to take clomifene for a month at 50mg/day. I declined due to the eye problems that shit is notorious for. Their response “Well, there IS that.”

I thanked them for their time as they wasted mine.
 

Multislacking

ASF MVP
Staff member
Super Moderator
Joined
Sep 30, 2015
Messages
25,264
Reaction score
33,060
Points
113
I let them know about potential issues (erythrocytosis, infertility, testicular shrinkage, prostate issues, etc). Most guys are comfortable stopping if that is the case.

"Oh, no! My balls are gonna shrink and I'm not gonna get chicks pregnant when I nut in them?!" Bwahahahahaha. "Most guys" :roflmao:

"Most guys" saw he wasn't going to prescribe test for them and quickly moved on.
 

CoachCabo

Registered User
Registered Member
Joined
Feb 22, 2017
Messages
4,388
Reaction score
4,302
Points
113
UGL Russian roulette is way better that a doctor prescribed and monitored HRT program, right? Just like closing the gate on opiods. Mr. and Mrs. Pudunck, USA with chronic pain weren’t buying bogus pills and heroin from the street (and now dying) when they got hooked by a doctor.

Shit is so backwards.
 

samgraves82

Board Rep
Board Rep
Joined
Sep 4, 2019
Messages
7,913
Reaction score
5,150
Points
113
The endo at the VA was wanting tests every three months to see what would happen with my 138 test and 450 estrogen. I asked how long they’d be comfortable with my hormones this out of whack. The answer was “You can go 6 to 9 months like this and you’ll be fine. So I followed up with “Would you be happy to let a woman go this far out of balance for that long?”

When, after 3 months, my test went up to a whopping 200, they said I was improving and rather than give me an Rx for test, they wanted me to take clomifene for a month at 50mg/day. I declined due to the eye problems that shit is notorious for. Their response “Well, there IS that.”

I thanked them for their time as they wasted mine.
Is this the same visits you told us about a while back. I remember what a mess you went thru. It was a new doc or something?
 

samgraves82

Board Rep
Board Rep
Joined
Sep 4, 2019
Messages
7,913
Reaction score
5,150
Points
113
So I was looking at all the online & local mens health or Medical spa or Anti Aging HRT/TRT comments about pricing in 2021-2022. Just seeing all the different pricing structures & protocols (if they make you do all labs, buy Rx’s, accept insurance, etc) . The first thing I run across is a Endocrinologist, MD taking about how he makes guys go through a ton of money/testing and basically “100% trying to no prescribe testosterone for any man!”

Exact copy of his post on Reddit (it may help you avoid thinking about going to a top endo or urology clinic and stick with the places that actually want to help men!
————————————————————————-

As an Endocrinologist, I see a lot of men inappropriately started on testosterone therapy based on 1 low afternoon total value, etc. this is typically what I do:

I tell them that the diagnosis of low testosterone has specific criteria, and that it has many different causes.
I explain secondary vs primary, and the inability to do a proper work up while on testosterone therapy. After I tell them they could have pituitary disease/adenoma or testicular damage and the only way to tell the difference is to allow for proper evaluation, most men are fine to pause therapy. I also let them know I won’t prescribe T without a proper work up to ensure proper diagnosis/treatment.
I advise them to hold testosterone for 6-8 weeks, then follow the Endocrine Society guidelines (they also have a great app that walks through the diagnosis I will sometimes share with my patients as well). At the end of 6-8 weeks, I get an 8-9 AM total and free testosterone (free testosterone needs to be by equilibrium dialysis to be accurate). If low, I will repeat again with FSH/LH to identify source, and hct/psa to identify barriers to therapy. If primary I look for primary sources, if secondary I’ll get iron studies (I’ve caught a few hemochromatosis patients this way), check other pituitary labs, and will consider MRI.
Please always get a prolactin before starting or continuing therapy on a patient that has never had 1 checked (and in my experience a lot of these “Men’s health clinics” don’t check). If their low T is from hyperprolactinemia they don’t need T, they need cabergoline.
If they don’t qualify for therapy, I let them know that their symptoms aren’t from T deficiency because they don’t have T deficiency, and I let them know about potential issues (erythrocytosis, infertility, testicular shrinkage, prostate issues, etc). Most guys are comfortable stopping if that is the case. If not, I let them know I won’t be writing T bc it is not indicated, so a lot choose to go elsewhere. This can be frustrating, but at least you did the right thing medically.
If they DO qualify for therapy, I also discuss side effects and screen for OSA/prostate issues. If possible OSA, I do a STOP-BANG and refer for a sleep study. If positive, I wait 3 months after CPAP to see if resolution of low T and to make sure OSA doesn’t get worse on T therapy. If LUTS, I do an international prostate severity score and refer to Urology or advise PCP to manage before T is started.
Stopping this is hard. I try to do my part with each individual patient I see to at least make sure they are diagnosed correctly. There likely could be some reporting to medical boards since T is a controlled substance, but I’m not aware of any action against providers for T therapy.

On mobile if issues with formatting.
————————————————————————

Obviously he has been brainwashed by the US “Endocrine Society Guidelines” and definitely is a total F*****! Can you imagine all the appointments, labs, procedures, sleep studies, more labs, his short treatment (if any), and how he greases the Palms of every other type of provider in his city! That is truly what he is doing, he is trying to make himself a ton of money(and the other specialists he refers you too) . This is all due to greed, poorly passed laws based on completely false information provided by FDA/GOV/IOC:WADA(Olympic committee) WHO/CDC & Professional Sports Organizations. These Physicians and theirMD/NURSING Associations plus the acronym centers should be sued for writing these massively fucked up Guidelines that almost 98% of all men couldn’t afford let alone make all these appointments.

**I was so irate reading his post, but did not comment. I would like to see equal (female and males hormones classifications as an Rx medication not a Schedule 3 drug which puts you in Legal Trouble, the same prescribing guidelines and accessibility for all practitioners and the male patients .

Depo-Provera, Depo-SubQ Provera 104, All Progestins/Progesterones/conjugated estrogen and all HRT are not even scheduled for females unless they have male hormone inside, they are just an Rx drug . In fact, an OTC hormone is available for females at most stores(Levonorgestrel) Plan B for emergency contraceptive purposes. Where is our oral or injectable male contraceptive (Rx or OTC) ? They have only had 45 yrs of clinical trials & 10’s of thousands of studies yet…NOT ONE MALE HORMONE HAS BEEN AVAILABLE FOR CONTRACEPTIVE PURPOSES! They have made at least 100 drug formulas using types of male hormones. MENT:Trestolone (7α-methyl-19-nortestosterone) and it’s cousin DMAU have been the closest to being approved but they don’t want ANY male androgens/anabolic hormones to be EVER available for men. Trest has been studied since the early 90’s as a male contraceptive. Mixes of esters and mg can be over 90% effective . Nestorone (NES) and Testosterone (T) Combination Gel for Male Contraception is still in trials after 10yrs !

As of Apr 12 2022 , here is what they are making for us - Male Birth Control Pill Expected to Start Human Trials This Year
The new non-hormonal pill was 99 percent effective at preventing pregnancy in mice ! They won’t give us hormones and it’s all due to money and lies . More than 12,000 presentations & formulas have been made on oral or injectable male contraceptive.
Currently, men have only two effective options for birth control: male condoms and vasectomy!


Max
Mice drug
What an asshole. Telemedicine is def way to go. I used biking for a while and they were great. Gonna go back soon
 

CoachCabo

Registered User
Registered Member
Joined
Feb 22, 2017
Messages
4,388
Reaction score
4,302
Points
113
Is this the same visits you told us about a while back. I remember what a mess you went thru. It was a new doc or something?
The new idiot doc was phase one. The endo was the follow up fiasco.
 

TheOldJJdigs

SB Labs
Board Rep
Joined
Jul 7, 2013
Messages
3,067
Reaction score
1,270
Points
113
My testosterone levels were around 250ng/dl at age 30 and he said I was normal.
My Endo (at the time 20 years ago).. I tested at 201ng/dl!!!! He said “ya technically you’re in the normal range“ I almost launched my body at him like a crazed gorilla… I’m glad I didn’t even waste a breath on the guy. I just rolled my eyes and thanked him for his time and walked out of the office.

ive been administering my own TRT ever since, lol.
 

AK93

Registered Member
Joined
Apr 8, 2022
Messages
45
Reaction score
20
Points
8
God damn, all of these horror stories about trying to go to a physical doctor makes me glad I went with the telehealth visit to get the ball rolling (Sports and regenerative outta CA). Pricey, but they are pretty liberal with working with you on stuff. How is it that these doctors really think that having a total of sub 300 is "normal" or "healthy" when there is so much objective research out there clearly proving otherwise. I know so many people running TRT thru telehealth places now, you think they would just normalize it already. :rolleyes:
 

CoachCabo

Registered User
Registered Member
Joined
Feb 22, 2017
Messages
4,388
Reaction score
4,302
Points
113
Get Shredded!
Test at 300 IS normal in today’s world of estro heavy weak cunts running around. Part of the pussification of America (Mexico too).

I as at MEPS in 2010, standing there in skivies in a room of 18-20 year olds, me at 46. I was not even working out with weights really at the time because my fitness was focused on racing superbikes.
I was easily the most masculine guy in the room. Lots of flabby backs and waists/bellies and cone titties. I couldn’t believe it.
And the Army rejected me even though I was in the Navy still and had done two deployments in Army billets.

Testosterone not only no longer required, but not desired I guess.
 

jozifp103

UncleZ Representative
Board Rep
Joined
Mar 29, 2014
Messages
3,382
Reaction score
1,195
Points
113
I made this post last year about my road to TRT years ago. It was a nightmare. My story doesn't even do it justice with the amount of rage I felt during this process.

 

Venom2333

Registered Member
Joined
May 19, 2022
Messages
11
Reaction score
2
Points
3
On TRT now and it's still frustrating sometimes dealing with the doc
 

Montego

Super Moderator
Staff member
Super Moderator
Joined
Jul 16, 2014
Messages
22,651
Reaction score
10,969
Points
113
Unpopular opinion, I think this Dr is bang on with his treatment requirements.

The vast majority of older males are in piss poor health to begin with. Covering all angles such as iron, sleep, diet, exercise/activity, sun exposure should be standard.

Throwing testosterone at an older male with underlying issues such as blood pressure ect. , which would feed off of all those things he's checking is absolutely a one way street to bigger issues long term.

Just like the newbies to gear, the impatient ones, the lazy ones, "just give me the magic pill".

It's a lifelong commitment, if you're not willing to go through some extra testing, you're not going to take a shot of test/apply your cream as directed either probably so it's pointless as well.

Low t can also cause some of the symptoms he's testing for like sleep and such,i get it but, it's worth finding out that because you're insi 23.5 hours a day 7 days a week your test is low compared to jabbing yourself every week.

Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk
 
Top