Obama's newest executive order

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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by malfeasance View Post
    Libertarian?

    Sorry to hear about your shoulder. You post makes it sound like this is permanent?
    yes .


    I don't know yet if it's permanent I sure hope it's not. I see my doctor this month sometime I don't know when I got it written down. I don't know what my options are if there's no bones to connect anything to. I will update.
    -S-

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swiper View Post
    are you going to answer any of my questions I asked or are you just going to continue to ignore them?

    what do you think about me liking zero hedge and trusting it as a news source?
    Sure if you like.

    It looked like you were bowing out of any real discussion -- you asked what I thought was inaccurate in the Zerohedge link and I answered with a bunch of citations plus a background article about a former writer there who excoriates their extreme slant from an inside perspective, giving some pretty strong reasons not to trust them. You ignored all that and went back to endorsing them, so... is there a point? Did you read any of the links?

    Liking Zerohedge is fine -- they're at least entertaining. Trusting them is silly IMO if you care about fact checking. I'll give them a 3/10 on the journalism spectrum but they're just a sensationalist blog and not really "news", so no biggie so long as you don't take them seriously.

    I've voted Democratic in the last three elections, not because I'm a Dem but because it's the lesser evil. The Republicans have transformed in the last several decades from a reasonable party devoted to sound but effective gov't and equal voting rights (!) to an extremist one largely divorced from facts and hellbent on dismantling the society we built out of the ashes of the Great Depression that unified the country, gave labor a voice through widespread unionization, instituted a more meritocratic education system, and grew a vibrant middle class with an increasing standard of living from the 30's thru the 70's. My "liberal" views would be merely "centrist" in the rest of the world since the spectrum has gotten so skewed to the right here. I'm probably somewhere between Eisenhower and JFK overall. But Eisenhower, Nixon, and even Reagan would be considered blazing liberals today compared to how far off the deep end conservatives have gone.

  3. #78
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    Obama's newest executive order

    Quote Originally Posted by chocolatemalt View Post
    Sure if you like.

    It looked like you were bowing out of any real discussion -- you asked what I thought was inaccurate in the Zerohedge link and I answered with a bunch of citations plus a background article about a former writer there who excoriates their extreme slant from an inside perspective, giving some pretty strong reasons not to trust them. You ignored all that and went back to endorsing them, so... is there a point? Did you read any of the links?

    Liking Zerohedge is fine -- they're at least entertaining. Trusting them is silly IMO if you care about fact checking. I'll give them a 3/10 on the journalism spectrum but they're just a sensationalist blog and not really "news", so no biggie so long as you don't take them seriously.

    I've voted Democratic in the last three elections, not because I'm a Dem but because it's the lesser evil. The Republicans have transformed in the last several decades from a reasonable party devoted to sound but effective gov't and equal voting rights (!) to an extremist one largely divorced from facts and hellbent on dismantling the society we built out of the ashes of the Great Depression that unified the country, gave labor a voice through widespread unionization, instituted a more meritocratic education system, and grew a vibrant middle class with an increasing standard of living from the 30's thru the 70's. My "liberal" views would be merely "centrist" in the rest of the world since the spectrum has gotten so skewed to the right here. I'm probably somewhere between Eisenhower and JFK overall. But Eisenhower, Nixon, and even Reagan would be considered blazing liberals today compared to how far off the deep end conservatives have gone.
    you voted for Obama twice and Hillary, lmao. I think anyone who cast a vote for those two clowns should really consider who they voted for..

    why would you vote for someone who lies straight to your face multiple times?


    I know you're a socialist Democrat. it's OK not everybody makes the right choices some people just don't know any better.

    you don't like zero hedge because it leans libertarian. if you take your ideology blinders off you may see it's more than just Democrat and Republican.

    since you continue to talk about news sources and completely off the subject, where do you get your news from?
    Last edited by Swiper; 01-03-2017 at 04:20 AM.
    -S-

  4. #79
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    Kush

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    Fellas, Obama has not done everything correctly, but you gotta stop getting your news from social media. Do some research. Go to the gulf and ask the people about how a cluster F can affect the environment. The news has moved on to the next story but the problem still persists. That was the only one reported but big oil covers up other spills and the tax payer foots the bill down the road. Politicians have been selling out to special interests from the beginning of government. Trump and his crew have been playing mis-direction from the beginning. On his "thankyou" tour admitted he was BSing in a lot of his speeches and by law, everything he said in his campaign was "platform" and a candidate can not be held accountable for platform. He said a lot but look at his appointees. Any way you asked for, now you got it

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by chocolatemalt View Post
    since the spectrum has gotten so skewed to the right here.
    Odd. I am almost half a century old, and it seems in my lifetime that the country, and the Republican party in particular, has relentlessly slid to the left, favoring bigger and bigger government, higher spending, and more "social programs."

    I find it interesting how we can observe the same country and come to such diametrically opposite conclusions.

    Both Democrats and Republicans today are far to the left of the two you mentioned, Eisenhower and JFK.

    I suppose it would be difficult for you and I even to discuss issues of importance with two such radically different frames of reference.

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swiper View Post
    . ^^^^^

    why would you vote for someone who lies straight to your face multiple times?


    since you continue to talk about news sources and completely off the subject, where do you get your news from?
    .........
    -S-

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swiper View Post
    you voted for Obama twice and Hillary, lmao. I think anyone who cast a vote for those two clowns should really consider who they voted for..

    why would you vote for someone who lies straight to your face multiple times?


    I know you're a socialist Democrat. it's OK not everybody makes the right choices some people just don't know any better.

    you don't like zero hedge because it leans libertarian. if you take your ideology blinders off you may see it's more than just Democrat and Republican.

    since you continue to talk about news sources and completely off the subject, where do you get your news from?
    Quote Originally Posted by Swiper View Post
    .........
    Not sure why you want to continue, but whatever. You don't seem open to anything you don't already "know".

    You're making wrong assumptions about why I don't like Zerohedge even after I documented very specific ways in which they bugger the facts. You ignored all the evidence and links, then accuse ME of ignoring questions. I said in plain English that I'm not a Democrat but you ignore it. I'm discussing the issues and doing fact checking, inviting you to do the same, but you ignore that and accuse me of having ideological blinders. The blinders are actually on the person who can't discuss issues and ignores contrary data like a fanatic. You are projecting your own afflictions on me. You're not likely to see it though, bummer.

    When you asked what particular facts zerohedge was getting wrong I thought there was a chance you were genuinely interested in an evidence-based and rational approach... and courageous enough to take in new data that may contradict previous assumptions. I'm gullible that way. But I also have the balls to admit when I'm wrong and this seems to be one of those times.

    What is so threatening about being wrong?

    FWIW: I get my news from sources all over, even wading into the right wing media horseshit cesspool occasionally for "research" on disinformation. Zerohedge is on the edges of that cesspool, thankfully not too deep. My main mostly-legit source is the Economist, in spite of their conservative kneejerk biases against regulations, minimum wage, and unions even when the evidence supports it. But I'll fact check anything I want to learn about; no single source will do the job.

    Also, I'm disgusted with Hillary -- a corrupt liar and opportunist with limited talents. It was painful to vote for her. The problem is that her general election opponent was far worse -- an absolute con artist who wooed the working class voters but will fuck them in the ass with his policies (on the things that matter: economics, taxes, social programs, health care, education), and yet they have no understanding of it due to decades of indoctrination by the right wing noise machine. Reaganomics round #3: Meth and Crack. Maybe this time they'll learn something?

    Libertarianism has its place, especially when it comes to overturning the failed Drug War. I always find it amusing to see people supporting legalization of marijuana, steroids, or other drugs (as in these forums right here) then turning around and voting Republican for the most regressive conservative policies on it. Just look at a map of states that have legalized recreational weed. Gonna be Kansas anytime soon? Not a chance.

    This was too long... oh well.

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by malfeasance View Post
    Odd. I am almost half a century old, and it seems in my lifetime that the country, and the Republican party in particular, has relentlessly slid to the left, favoring bigger and bigger government, higher spending, and more "social programs."

    I find it interesting how we can observe the same country and come to such diametrically opposite conclusions.

    Both Democrats and Republicans today are far to the left of the two you mentioned, Eisenhower and JFK.

    I suppose it would be difficult for you and I even to discuss issues of importance with two such radically different frames of reference.
    We're the same age Malf.

    I see what you mean about Republicans budgetary incompetence, but that's just an accident of their braindead economic policies combined with their desire for an ever-growing military. They grow gov't and explode the debt due to incompetence. This started with Reagan and supply side economics. He nearly tripled the debt in his 8 years while also growing the defense budget by 40%. Add the crash of '87 and the S&L bailout (due to botched de-regulation) to that and you have the elephant parade shit cleanup that Bush Sr. had to deal with... ironically the same guy who coined "Voodoo Economics" to describe Reagan's vision back in the 1980 GOP primary. So unfair.

    In every other measure they've slid far to the right. In the '57 civil rights act they actually had *more* support for it in the congressional vote than the Dems. Can you imagine such an outcome today?

    Here's a nice analysis of growing extremism in Congress caused mainly by the GOP, especially in the House. Check out the 3rd graph:

    https://voteviewblog.com/2015/02/10/...14th-congress/

    Watch this '80 primary debate snippet (2.5 mins) between Reagan and Bush Sr. on the immigration issue and contrast with today. Has the GOP drifted leftward?



    What did Eisenhower do in his two terms from '53 to '61 -- fight unions, cut taxes on the rich, engage in "supply size" nonsense? No, he had a Cold War to fight, an Interstate Highway to build, etc. Unionization was huge back then and the middle class was growing briskly. Top marginal tax rates on the rich were 91% when he entered office and then when he left... still 91%.

    Here's a speech snippet from '53:

    "Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed.
    This world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children. The cost of one modern heavy bomber is this: a modern brick school in more than 30 cities. It is two electric power plants, each serving a town of 60,000 population. It is two fine, fully equipped hospitals. It is some fifty miles of concrete pavement. We pay for a single fighter with a half-million bushels of wheat. We pay for a single destroyer with new homes that could have housed more than 8,000 people. . . . This is not a way of life at all, in any true sense. Under the cloud of threatening war, it is humanity hanging from a cross of iron."


    What Republican would say any such thing today?

    Also, Nixon created the EPA. And in response to economic problems caused by the '72/'73 oil shocks, he instituted price controls like an ardent Socialist. He left top marginal income tax rates on the rich at 70% (JFK was the one who knocked them down from 91%). What Republican would do any of that today?

    There's been tons of stuff written about the Tea Party revolution and the GOP shifting sharply rightward, forcing establishment figures like Orrin Hatch to do the same to avoid primary challenges from the extremists, and others like Arlen Specter to simply drop out of the party after saying the party had actually "left him". Those are just a few examples.

    I'm open to any new evidence that shows contrary conclusions... so long as it's reality-based. If it comes from sources that advocate Pizzagate horseshit, Birther conspiracies, vaccine autism links, or any other anti-scientific nonsense... then yeah, not worth wasting time on.

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by chocolatemalt View Post
    Not sure why you want to continue, but whatever. You don't seem open to anything you don't already "know".

    You're making wrong assumptions about why I don't like Zerohedge even after I documented very specific ways in which they bugger the facts. You ignored all the evidence and links, then accuse ME of ignoring questions. I said in plain English that I'm not a Democrat but you ignore it. I'm discussing the issues and doing fact checking, inviting you to do the same, but you ignore that and accuse me of having ideological blinders. The blinders are actually on the person who can't discuss issues and ignores contrary data like a fanatic. You are projecting your own afflictions on me. You're not likely to see it though, bummer.

    When you asked what particular facts zerohedge was getting wrong I thought there was a chance you were genuinely interested in an evidence-based and rational approach... and courageous enough to take in new data that may contradict previous assumptions. I'm gullible that way. But I also have the balls to admit when I'm wrong and this seems to be one of those times.

    What is so threatening about being wrong?

    FWIW: I get my news from sources all over, even wading into the right wing media horseshit cesspool occasionally for "research" on disinformation. Zerohedge is on the edges of that cesspool, thankfully not too deep. My main mostly-legit source is the Economist, in spite of their conservative kneejerk biases against regulations, minimum wage, and unions even when the evidence supports it. But I'll fact check anything I want to learn about; no single source will do the job.

    Also, I'm disgusted with Hillary -- a corrupt liar and opportunist with limited talents. It was painful to vote for her. The problem is that her general election opponent was far worse -- an absolute con artist who wooed the working class voters but will fuck them in the ass with his policies (on the things that matter: economics, taxes, social programs, health care, education), and yet they have no understanding of it due to decades of indoctrination by the right wing noise machine. Reaganomics round #3: Meth and Crack. Maybe this time they'll learn something?

    Libertarianism has its place, especially when it comes to overturning the failed Drug War. I always find it amusing to see people supporting legalization of marijuana, steroids, or other drugs (as in these forums right here) then turning around and voting Republican for the most regressive conservative policies on it. Just look at a map of states that have legalized recreational weed. Gonna be Kansas anytime soon? Not a chance.

    This was too long... oh well.
    again where are the facts that were wrong in the article? I title you thought was misleading? come on....



    if Hillary is so bad as you say why did you vote for her? don't you have any self-respect? I mean you actually when out of your house went to the polling place and casted your vote for Hillary. all that effort to do that that's fucked up for someone you think is such a bad person and politician.

    I'll probably never understand the mind of a liberal, but someone did say it's mental disorder????
    -S-

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swiper View Post
    again where are the facts that were wrong in the article? I title you thought was misleading? come on....



    if Hillary is so bad as you say why did you vote for her? don't you have any self-respect? I mean you actually when out of your house went to the polling place and casted your vote for Hillary. all that effort to do that that's fucked up for someone you think is such a bad person and politician.

    I'll probably never understand the mind of a liberal, but someone did say it's mental disorder????
    Meh. I already answered most of those questions but maybe you have reading comprehension issues. And what makes you assume I went to vote in person? More wrong assumptions piled on previous ones you've already made and won't acknowledge. At this point I think you're a troll, either that or just not very smart. I wouldn't've bothered with my original response had I known that. I'm always up for discussing these issues and learning something new, rearranging priorities as required, examining fallacies or misinformation and discarding any I can find, improving my viewpoints as a result. But doing so requires the other people involved to have some actual education about history, economics, science, cognitive dissonance, confirmation bias, etc. Engaging with you is only going to get vacuous insults like saying I have a "mental disorder"? Incisive, compelling arguments you have there. Bravo.

    I'm not even really a "liberal", having plenty of viewpoints contrary to the Left when it comes to social programs, political correctness, feminism, nuclear power vs renewables, pacifism vs. military intervention, etc... but this country has veered so far to the Right in recent decades that our definitions of "centrist" has gotten warped as well, but in a global and historical sense that's the label I'd put on myself.

    Anyway... this is pointless, no intelligent fact-based discussions to be had here. It's the Pit in an AAS forum anyway, lol, as tgunz pointed out.

    Actually, let me ask one small political/philosophical question: Do you think the US military should be disbanded? Or if not, have its funding completely cut from the federal budget? It could obtain funding from private donations, perhaps "faith-based initiatives" as W. was so fond of... it could run bake sales to drum up cash, or depend on church donations. How would that square up with your beliefs?

  12. #87
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    are you calling me stupid?
    -S-

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    Obama's newest executive order

    Quote Originally Posted by Swiper View Post
    are you calling me stupid?
    You may be as dumb as an ox but at least you're as big as one!



  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by chocolatemalt View Post
    Meh. I already answered most of those questions but maybe you have reading comprehension issues. And what makes you assume I went to vote in person? More wrong assumptions piled on previous ones you've already made and won't acknowledge. At this point I think you're a troll, either that or just not very smart. I wouldn't've bothered with my original response had I known that. I'm always up for discussing these issues and learning something new, rearranging priorities as required, examining fallacies or misinformation and discarding any I can find, improving my viewpoints as a result. But doing so requires the other people involved to have some actual education about history, economics, science, cognitive dissonance, confirmation bias, etc. Engaging with you is only going to get vacuous insults like saying I have a "mental disorder"? Incisive, compelling arguments you have there. Bravo.

    I'm not even really a "liberal", having plenty of viewpoints contrary to the Left when it comes to social programs, political correctness, feminism, nuclear power vs renewables, pacifism vs. military intervention, etc... but this country has veered so far to the Right in recent decades that our definitions of "centrist" has gotten warped as well, but in a global and historical sense that's the label I'd put on myself.

    Anyway... this is pointless, no intelligent fact-based discussions to be had here. It's the Pit in an AAS forum anyway, lol, as tgunz pointed out.

    Actually, let me ask one small political/philosophical question: Do you think the US military should be disbanded? Or if not, have its funding completely cut from the federal budget? It could obtain funding from private donations, perhaps "faith-based initiatives" as W. was so fond of... it could run bake sales to drum up cash, or depend on church donations. How would that square up with your beliefs?
    no comprehension issues, maybe a little ADD but I just scan through your posts for the most part.


    sorry Im not at your level of intelligence. why do you have to rub it in and try to make yourself feel superior? does that make you feel better about yourself or something?



    lol are you serious about your question regarding the military? go read the entire article 1 section 8. that's what I support.

    are you embarrassed you voted for Hillary?
    -S-

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    Quote Originally Posted by 45PRs View Post
    You may be as dumb as an ox but at least you're as big as one!
    ha ha, tiny now
    -S-

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