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Anabolic round table 1/15/22

Montego

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Get Shredded!
Haven't done one of these in a long time.

This question isn't gear related but, I think it's always good to talk about the shit that matters like training and nutrition.

We're going to do this thread a little different then ones in the past. This will be open for anyone to chime in on IF, you think you have VALUABLE input.

WARNING - If you start arguing and name calling, I'm going to ban you for a bit. Debate, good, argue, no good. This isn't the pit and people can get a lot of good info from these posts so, don't fuck it up.

The question was from androgenocide (cool name btw) -

I would be interested to hear the bodybuilding communities consensus on fasting for cutting. I have heard they can be used to lose fat in a very short time but some seem to think they result in a lot of muscle loss as well. Would be interested to hear someone with more knowledge than myself address the topic.

@REHH @HF03 @heavyiron @Skip Foursome @Killonb12 @CoachCabo @Multislacking @maxmuscle1

I forgot many tags, I'll try to get them back.

You can ask questions here - https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink/to...&share_fid=66963&share_type=t&link_source=app

If we get some, I'll start doing these again

Discuss!
 
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I’ve got a couple thoughts on it. If you’re on anabolics and it’s for a short time I don’t think you’ll lose any muscle. I’m not a fan of fasting personally as it usually leads to binging and hurts performance in the gym.
If someone wanted to go to the extreme of fasting I’d prefer a psmf over a pure fast with no calories.
You’ve got 3 different stimulus to hold onto muscle in a deficit protein, training and drugs. If you remove the calories completely you shouldn’t train, you’re taking 2/3rds of the stimulus away. If you’re not on gear then you’ve got no stimulus. The body doesn’t target only stores fat for energy.
 
I've always said the best diet and exercise plan is the one you *can* stick with. That means consistently, day in and day out. I've seen people do fasting and drop weight quickly. The popular one that seems most common is 16/8 and most people do their 8 hour window from 11-7 give or take an hour. The downside is they hit their 20 pounds or whatever and go right back to what they were doing before. And gain all the weight back just as fast. I have yet to see anyone do this for more than a few months. I'd love to hear about somebody doing it long term. The human body has an amazing and annoying habit of adapting to what you're doing. I'd wager that eventually the fasting quits paying dividends and slows down drastically...hence another reason people quit.

As for muscle loss, there might be "some". But given that fasting is done and over in a couple of months, I don't personally think it is *that* much. Especially if you're still keeping up with protein intake, etc.

Here's something to ask yourself...how many guys that are truly competing use IF in prep for competition? I can't think of a single documentary, interview, etc where the guy said, "here is my window, so I have to jam everything into it." I'm sure somebody probably has, I just can't remember any.
 
Just posted this in another thread:

I'm not a fan of starvation diet. It doesn't work and if anything it makes fat loss even harder.

Metabolism is like a furnace, needs fuel (food) to make the flame hot.

Wish I had a better analogy but all I can think of at the moment.
 
Seeing where this thread has gone is pretty much an indictment of ASF these days.

117 views and four replies.

Weak for a steroid forum with guys supposedly dedicated to getting bigger and stronger. .

Meanwhile in the Pit........
 
I was hoping alot of smart guys would be posting in this thread. Unfortunately I don't have the experience to comment. More information on cutting is greatly needed.
 
Seeing where this thread has gone is pretty much an indictment of ASF these days.

117 views and four replies.

Weak for a steroid forum with guys supposedly dedicated to getting bigger and stronger. .

Meanwhile in the Pit........


In all fairness, it *was* intermittent fasting. Meanwhile, I'm sitting here shoveling gb and lettuce. And ranch...
 
I was hoping alot of smart guys would be posting in this thread. Unfortunately I don't have the experience to comment. More information on cutting is greatly needed.

Ditto… I’m interested in the facts but don’t know much about fasting. I don’t really understand why anyone would want to as I feel like shit whenever I’ve tried various fasting programs. I don’t cut to the degree some do and don’t compete, so what would I know.
 
I can't see how it would be sustainable for very long. Good if you needed to drop a little fat and a lot of water quickly on short notice but the drop in performance over a longer period of time wouldn't be the most optimal plan.
 
IML Gear Cream!
@gymntonic is the latest person I know that's done it. Maybe Wes will throw his two cents in.
 
I have nothing to contribute on this topic. I have heard all arguments for it and while it makes sense in a way, I am just not in favor of not feeding my/your body.
 
The question was from androgenocide (cool name btw) -

I would be interested to hear the bodybuilding communities consensus on fasting for cutting. I have heard they can be used to lose fat in a very short time but some seem to think they result in a lot of muscle loss as well. Would be interested to hear someone with more knowledge than myself address the topic.


Discuss!

I dont advocate fasting for losing fat since you're going to lose muscle along with it, fasting is counter productively for bodybuilders trying to lose fat. there are better ways.

Disclaimer: if you're wifey is trying to fit in her size 2 jeans on Saturday night when she barely fits in her size 4 on Monday, fasting may be her answer, then thats a different debate and in some cases a different answer haha
 
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Seeing where this thread has gone is pretty much an indictment of ASF these days.

117 views and four replies.

Weak for a steroid forum with guys supposedly dedicated to getting bigger and stronger. .

Meanwhile in the Pit........

some of us aren’t in the cool kids club, besides…. Fat loss ain’t my expertise. Prevention is always a better fit and everyone knows drugs are the answer to everything. Lol

Being hangry isn’t something I’d even consider. So, fasted AM cardio = yes but I’m not waiting 16 hours to eat. I guess if I just planned on sitting my ass on the couch all day everyday I’d recommend fasting but Im not built that way. Why torture yourself when you can just eat smarter and lift weights?

but if you’re talking about a guy whose 9% bf trying to get to 4% bf and doesn’t mind losing any muscle (or like hfo3 stated: a girl trying to look thinner than the other girls at the wedding party) well then, ask one of the guys monte originally listed on this thread cuz I don’t know shit about shit and I like food. 🤷*♂️
 
I dont advocate fasting for losing fat since you're going to lose muscle along with it, fasting is counter productively for bodybuilders trying to lose fat. there are better ways.

Disclaimer: if you're wifey is trying to fit in her size 2 jeans on Saturday night when she barely fits in her size 4 on Monday, fasting may be her answer, then thats a different debate and in some cases a different answer haha

Well said!
 
I have seen some guys have success with intermittent fasting for long periods of time. That guy joesthetics does that. I mean for him it works. I dont think most have the will power for that long term(month to years). When I tried it my works out tanked. But Same can be said for severe calorie reductions. My work outs tanked. Personally I would rather eat another meal and do another hour of cardio than starve or have no gas in the tank in the gym.

I honestly dont think that getting to single digit body fat with or with out fasting and not losing some muscle is possible for most. You can mitigate the loss as much as possible but there will be loss barring some insane genetics.

This is just a gym rats perspective.
 
some of us aren’t in the cool kids club, besides…. Fat loss ain’t my expertise. Prevention is always a better fit and everyone knows drugs are the answer to everything. Lol

Being hangry isn’t something I’d even consider. So, fasted AM cardio = yes but I’m not waiting 16 hours to eat. I guess if I just planned on sitting my ass on the couch all day everyday I’d recommend fasting but Im not built that way. Why torture yourself when you can just eat smarter and lift weights?

but if you’re talking about a guy whose 9% bf trying to get to 4% bf and doesn’t mind losing any muscle (or like hfo3 stated: a girl trying to look thinner than the other girls at the wedding party) well then, ask one of the guys monte originally listed on this thread cuz I don’t know shit about shit and I like food. 🤷*♂️

These topics used to get a lot of interaction. I do agree with Multi it's not the best topic but still for something that is as allusive as fat loss you would think there would be more interest.
 
These topics used to get a lot of interaction. I do agree with Multi it's not the best topic but still for something that is as allusive as fat loss you would think there would be more interest.

I love the topic honestly and I love these anabolic round table discussions. I feel like a lot of the OG’s (I think I’m using that appropriately) are just busy with life or something… we got a lot of new members that probably aren’t participating due to respect honestly.

I just hope you guys keep it up. Like once a week or something. I like reading other peoples take on everything fitness and drugs related. I don’t participate out of respect for the board members that know their shit honestly.

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I used the word honestly way too much honestly.
 
I love the topic honestly and I love these anabolic round table discussions. I feel like a lot of the OG’s (I think I’m using that appropriately) are just busy with life or something… we got a lot of new members that probably aren’t participating due to respect honestly.

I just hope you guys keep it up. Like once a week or something. I like reading other peoples take on everything fitness and drugs related. I don’t participate out of respect for the board members that know their shit honestly.

- - - Updated - - -

I used the word honestly way too much honestly.

I feel like we're probably on similar footing. There's no harm in sharing your experience, because that's what we're all doing. I'm no expert. And I try to "stay in my lane" when posting on topics (boobies, trt, boobies...stick to what you know). But I can always point guys to Llewelyn, Duchaine, or some other source and let them do their own research...which I *always* recommend. Don't just take someone's word on it. It's getting harder for me to remember certain things, but I can always go back to posts from guys like tren2k14, basskiller, touaregv8, mm, etc, etc. We've had some sharp guys over the years who went down the rabbit hole on any given compound or combo. Some really great logs, but nobody wants to sift through them. Laziness. But I'll play "ASF Librarian" if it helps someone out.

^ No offense to any OG's...that's a short list so I could post without playing "old man remembering names".
 
I'll apologize up front, but I'm going off the rails for a moment, since we're kind of already there. On the topic of logs... If you're new, experienced, or anywhere in between...take a look at @maxmuscle1 log. And keep looking at it daily. There is a log that Max literally spells out each and every day exactly what he is doing...right down to the vit C. Literally. A person could do a LOT worse than to just simply follow *exactly* what his protocols are. Never mind the food porn and booty...that's just the icing on the cake. Don't get me wrong, I like looking at Monte's log for exercises...technical meat and bones. I look forward to a good Milford King log with random thoughts and "this happend to me today" stories. Everybody has their own flair. Max is meticulous though with details...no one has to ask "did you do this, try that, etc". It's all laid out. A literal recipe for success. Can't do all of it? Fine, pare it down to what you *can* do and you'll still make progress.

Thanks to ALL the guys who take time each and every day to share their journey. I may not comment much in every log, but I see when you eat horse meat, etc. I trust you all will be honest and tell me if I need to up my AI.
 
Get Shredded!
Intermittent fasting....

For your average guy, especially one who needs to lose a bunch of fat, I think it can be a very good approach.

This is assuming you're not trying to be huge and have a hard time sticking to a regular feeding schedule.

It is by no means ideal to keep every ounce of muscle possible while cutting but, it is simple and definitely works.

There are many benefits to fasting like gut health, blood sugar, mental clarity and so on. There are points where I will do a couple days of fasting with a very limited eating window when my gut isn't cooperating.

I by no means think it's the best approach but it can work.
 
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