Persistent low libido/weak erections two months after PCT (w/ comprehensive blood work)

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    Persistent low libido/weak erections two months after PCT (w/ comprehensive blood work)

    I ran a cycle of 200ml/test p from May 11 through August 30, with a tbol kickstarter. I used HCG on cycle intermittently (pretty sporadically, TBH). I was on dutasteride during cycle as well. I ran PCT during September with nolva/clomid and HCG for the first two weeks (I know that's controversial; I got a lot of conflicting opinions about whether to do that).

    I felt awful during PCT--worst depression I've ever had, no energy, zero libido, terrible insomnia, etc. My energy and mood picked up around mid-October and I started feeling like myself again. The only exception is that my libido hasn't recovered; have very little sex drive and boners are weak and fade fast. Luckily, I got blood work before cycle, during cycle, during PCT, and in mid-November. I'm curious if anyone has any thoughts; my total test has recovered a lot (but not fully), but my free test % seems low. (I don't have prior free test numbers; the blood panels that got run varied a lot from date to date.)

    Is this something that's likely to keep recovering? My physician (who knows I cycled) said I could run clomid again to bump up my test production. I'm not averse to that, but I'd probably hold off if giving things another 2-3 months would be likely to see more recovery.

    FYI, I'm 39 and this is my fifth cycle. I haven't done one since 2018, though, so plenty of recovery time since the last cycle. I dropped dutasteride at the end of August, so keep that in mind when you're looking at my DHT numbers. Thanks!

    Before cycle:

    • Total test: 902
    • Estradiol: 25
    • LH: 2.8
    • TSH: 0.641


    During cycle (4 weeks in):
    • DHT: 45 (taking dutasteride)
    • Estradiol: 40
    • Total test: >1,500


    During cycle: (8 weeks in):

    • Estradiol: 18
    • Total test: 1,020
    • TSH: 0.579
    • Prolactin: 7.5


    During PCT (three weeks in):
    • LH: 3.9
    • FSH: 6.0
    • Total test: 419
    • Estradiol: 10


    Six weeks after PCT finished:
    • Total test: 683
    • SHBG: 52.1
    • Free androgen ind: 45.5
    • Free test: 568
    • % free test: 0.9%
    • Free test (pg/mL): 51 (ref. range: 52-280)
    • DHT: 39 (no dutasteride)
    • LH: 7.9
    • Estradiol: 22

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    I tell this to guys until I am blue in the face. It is the #1 issue I have seen in AAS users over the last 20 years.

    2 months is not long enough to return HPTA. Unless you are 18 years old and ran an 8 week cycle for the first time, theres literally zero chance you are recovered.

    HPTA takes 2-12 months minimum. Age, health, immune system, metabolism, cycle history, alcohol and drug use are all factors in recovering.

    You are 39, so not a chance you are bouncing back in 2 months. Now how you had a 900+ n/dL level previous at 39 years old, that makes you an anomaly. I'm not calling you a liar, but in thousands of labs I have never once seen a 39 year old male with a 900n/dL level. So I have no explanation for you on that number.

    Then during your cycle you only went up to 1,020? Which makes me ask you, how long after your last shot did you draw blood?

    Minus seeing anything else I would tell you to go back on Clomid for several months. Feel free to throw in some OTC supps to assist like boron, zma, pine pollen, etc, etc. Nolva is fine as well. Stay on for several months.

    Grab some Cialis for the ED. Use it at 5mgs ED and/or 20mgs PRN, PRN meaning "As needed". Recall cialis is in the system 36-48h so you don't need to dose it every single day.
    Last edited by GYMnTONIC; 11-26-2021 at 07:06 AM.

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    Why were you taking dutasteride? The sides you are describing *could* be contributed to a few things, but dutasteride is more potent than finasteride which is known to cause the issues you describe. It can take a long time (up to 12 months) to recover dick issues from those two meds. IF that is what caused it. Also, 200mg of test per week is just enough to shut you down and NOT enough to make you gain any serious muscle. You've been around for a bit, so I'm wondering if you missed something in your cycle protocol when you typed it out?

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    Quote Originally Posted by GYMnTONIC View Post
    I tell this to guys until I am blue in the face. It is the #1 issue I have seen in AAS users over the last 20 years.

    2 months is not long enough to return HPTA. Unless you are 18 years old and ran an 8 week cycle for the first time, theres literally zero chance you are recovered.

    HPTA takes 2-12 months minimum. Age, health, immune system, metabolism, cycle history, alcohol and drug use are all factors in recovering.

    You are 39, so not a chance you are bouncing back in 2 months. Now how you had a 900+ n/dL level previous at 39 years old, that makes you an anomaly. I'm not calling you a liar, but in thousands of labs I have never once seen a 39 year old male with a 900n/dL level. So I have no explanation for you on that number.

    Then during your cycle you only went up to 1,020? Which makes me ask you, how long after your last shot did you draw blood?

    Minus seeing anything else I would tell you to go back on Clomid for several months. Feel free to throw in some OTC supps to assist like boron, zma, pine pollen, etc, etc. Nolva is fine as well. Stay on for several months.

    Grab some Cialis for the ED. Use it at 5mgs ED and/or 20mgs PRN, PRN meaning "As needed". Recall cialis is in the system 36-48h so you don't need to dose it every single day.
    Thanks, I really appreciate the input--the 900 number surprised the hell out of me as well. Definitely not lying; I pulled that in February this year, which was nearly three years after I wrapped up my last cycle. That also seems consistent with my 683 total test number that I pulled a couple weeks ago (i.e., being at 683 when not fully recovered).

    I think I'll hop back on clomid for awhile to help things along.

    I was at >1,500 during one of my on-cycle draws, so I think the 1,020 number must've come awhile after my last pin. Seemed very low at the time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Multislacking View Post
    Why were you taking dutasteride? The sides you are describing *could* be contributed to a few things, but dutasteride is more potent than finasteride which is known to cause the issues you describe. It can take a long time (up to 12 months) to recover dick issues from those two meds. IF that is what caused it. Also, 200mg of test per week is just enough to shut you down and NOT enough to make you gain any serious muscle. You've been around for a bit, so I'm wondering if you missed something in your cycle protocol when you typed it out?
    Shoot, you're right--that was 200mg EOD.

    I was on dut for hair issues; had been for nine years. I switched to a topical dut formulation in September that doesn't go systemic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Win2002 View Post
    Shoot, you're right--that was 200mg EOD.

    I was on dut for hair issues; had been for nine years. I switched to a topical dut formulation in September that doesn't go systemic.
    Ha, I figured you missed something. PEDs vs hairline is a thin line to walk. Given how brutal dut/finasteride can be, I'd have a hard time using them just for my hairline. But that's just me. Was there a reason you switched to the topical dut? And did the problems show up after the switch?

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    Good Catch Multi....
    Not being familiar with that drug...I would have never caught that....
    Which brings a Great point...more research on All compounds used during a cycle..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Multislacking View Post
    Ha, I figured you missed something. PEDs vs hairline is a thin line to walk. Given how brutal dut/finasteride can be, I'd have a hard time using them just for my hairline. But that's just me. Was there a reason you switched to the topical dut? And did the problems show up after the switch?
    I switched because I don't like systemically lowering DHT; it's always given me minor sexual sides. Topical doesn't go systemic. I switched because I wanted the added protection of oral dut during cycle, so I switched at the same time I started PCT. I've dropped the oral in the past and my libido and erections always strengthen within six weeks; it's been 2.5 months since I dropped it here, so I don't think that's the culprit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GYMnTONIC View Post
    I tell this to guys until I am blue in the face. It is the #1 issue I have seen in AAS users over the last 20 years.

    2 months is not long enough to return HPTA. Unless you are 18 years old and ran an 8 week cycle for the first time, theres literally zero chance you are recovered.

    HPTA takes 2-12 months minimum. Age, health, immune system, metabolism, cycle history, alcohol and drug use are all factors in recovering.

    You are 39, so not a chance you are bouncing back in 2 months. Now how you had a 900+ n/dL level previous at 39 years old, that makes you an anomaly. I'm not calling you a liar, but in thousands of labs I have never once seen a 39 year old male with a 900n/dL level. So I have no explanation for you on that number.

    Then during your cycle you only went up to 1,020? Which makes me ask you, how long after your last shot did you draw blood?

    Minus seeing anything else I would tell you to go back on Clomid for several months. Feel free to throw in some OTC supps to assist like boron, zma, pine pollen, etc, etc. Nolva is fine as well. Stay on for several months.

    Grab some Cialis for the ED. Use it at 5mgs ED and/or 20mgs PRN, PRN meaning "As needed". Recall cialis is in the system 36-48h so you don't need to dose it every single day.
    So, I started back on clomid and the depression/lethargy/insomnia that I had during PCT came roaring back. I just don't think I tolerate this drug well. Is there any downside to not taking clomid now, other than a longer recovery? My understanding has always been that clomid just helps speed up recovery, but you're going to eventually recover the same levels/function with or without clomid. If that's the case, I'll just wait it out and not be cripplingly depressed during the holidays. Appreciate any input.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Win2002 View Post
    So, I started back on clomid and the depression/lethargy/insomnia that I had during PCT came roaring back.
    This is not uncommon and usually where guys get into the clomid vs nolva discussion. Because of the mental sides.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Multislacking View Post
    This is not uncommon and usually where guys get into the clomid vs nolva discussion. Because of the mental sides.
    Yup... they hit me pretty bad. Just feel completely anxious and run down. Like, fragile, if that makes sense.

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    dutasteride can cause long term libido and erectile dysfunction problems in some people even when you stop taking it

    i would never touch those dht blockers

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    Quote Originally Posted by rawbuilt View Post
    dutasteride can cause long term libido and erectile dysfunction problems in some people even when you stop taking it

    i would never touch those dht blockers
    Yup, I've heard of the rare long-term cases. When I've dropped it in the past, though, I haven't had any persistent issues.

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    Holy shit--two doses of 50mg clomid two weeks ago and I'm still reeling from the side effects; libido fell off a cliff and awful depression. Shocked that the depression is lingering two weeks after only two pills. I guess I'm just more susceptible to clomid sides than most people. This shit sucks.

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    Bumping this again. I tried two 50mg doses of clomid right after Thanksgiving and the sides hit me hard, so I stopped. I waited until Jan. 10 and just didn't seem to be recovering much more; my energy was fully back to normal, but libido was low and boners were unreliable. I started 25mg clomid ED that days; it's killed my libido completely, but that's a clomid side for me. Just wondering if there's anything else I should be doing; I'm a little worried that I'm 4.5 months post-cycle and still have libido/erection issues--especially since I'm not on dut anymore, so should have way more DHT in my system than I have in the last decade that I was taking it.

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