Understand PIP and what to do to reduce it

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  1. #1
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    Understand PIP and what to do to reduce it

    Some people think PIP is not good , but is a great sign your gear is good and strong ( even pharma grade Testoviron from Bayer in my local pharmacy give a huge PIP)

    What causes (non infection related) injection pain?

    first the shorter the ester, the higher the melting point
    second, the concentration of the gear.
    third, the solvents used.
    fourth, injecting too quickly
    fifth, virgin muscle.




    Pain is caused when the oil/solvents are absorbed by the body and crystals are left behind.
    Short esters (propionate or acetate) are harder, more painful crystals with melting points in the 100c range.
    A hormone with a longer esters (excluding cypionate - cyp is long but also high melting point) can have a melting point in the 20c-40c range. not far off from human body temp.

    Pain is also caused by concentration of your gear.
    Building off of point 1: Let's say it takes the body 24 hours to absorb 1mL of a certain oil/solvent blend, and 24 hours to absorb 50mg of Testosterone Propionate. If 50mg (or less) of testosterone propionate is in 1mL of that oil, this injection should be painless. On the other hand, if 100mg of testosterone propionate is in that same 1mL of solution, then after 24 hours the body will have absorbed 50mg and 1mL, leaving 50mg behind in the injection area, crystalized and painful.

    Its better to shoot 3mL of 50mg/mL Testosterone Propionate than 1mL of 150mg/mL Testosterone Propionate.

    This is also why water based suspensions (Testosterone base/no ester, Winstrol ) hurt the most, water is very easily absorbed in the body

    The solvents used can cause pain in 2 ways. Benzyl alcohol (BA) is used at 1%-2% as a preservative and antiseptic. If the alcohol content is too high the gear will burn. Pain in the first 24 hours is usually caused by heavy solvents, pain in the next few hours is usually cause by crystalization. Another way is a bad recipe. if someone used 2% BA, and the rest of the solution oil, the mg/mL would have to be low due to oil's weak ability to hold crystals. On the other hand, a recipe like 2% BA, 5% Guaiacol (super solvent), 10% Benzyl Salicylate (liquid asprin) with the filler split 50:50 between Ethyl Oleate (oil/solvent hybrid) and normal oil should be far less painful.

    If you inject too quickly it can tear tissue.

    If your muscle is new to the hormone, it will absorb the hormone very slowly, but absorb the oil/solvent very quickly. This will cause more crystalization and pain. As your muscles recognize the hormones, they will be absorbed more quickly, thus less pain. The deeper you inject into the center of a muscle group, the better.

    How do I prevent pain before I inject?

    Cut your shots 50:50 with sterile filtered oil. If you want to use 50mg of Testosterone Propionate, and you have 100mg/mL Testosterone Propionate- pull 0.5mL of your test prop, and 0.5mL of sterile filtered oil to shoot 1mL of 50mg/mL Testosterone Propionate. This is the #1 best way.
    Dont bother with b-12, its water based- absorbed so quickly it will have little to no impact.

    Before you shoot, it can help to warm your gear some (especially suspensions). You could put the vial in the bathroom sink and let hot water run over the vial for 2 minutes, and shake well. This will lower the oils viscosity also making it easier it pull into the syringe.

    Inject your gear after a hot bath ( i do at night before bed time ), shoot is smooth and soft

    Inject slowly, take 30 seconds per mL. Use a 25g pin to inject so it forces you to move slowly.

    If none of these work you could have dirty gear. Its possible there could be particles (although bacteriostatic) in the gear that are not causing infection, but still cause in site infection that made it through a filter.

    How do I deal with pain once I have it?

    The worst thing you can do is ice it. Cold will help the crystals fall out of solution/suspension.
    Its okay to take some ibuprofin to decrease the swelling, and help with pain.
    Also being in a hot tub, or jacuzzi, or warm bubble bath will help melt the crystals down. Using a heating pad can help also.
    Some times you will need antibiotics

    Monstro
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  2. #2
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    Nice write up bro! Good info here for anyone new... I like the way you broke it down.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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    I would say that having the oil at or near body temp seems to really help me keep PIP down. Plus when the oil is warmed up it'll flow better through a 27gauge which all the more helps reduce PIP.

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    I like that. I have used 500-600mg/ml EQ and 400mg-500mg test/test mixes previously and found having plain, sterile oil or using reg dosed 200mg/ml Cyp helps. Like you said . 1/2ml of high mg gear w 1/2 or 1:1 helps 100%!! And heating /slowly injecting.

    Max

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    I believe alot of pip comes from knowledge of where to pin.

    I sometimes rotate too much inside the glute and get closer to the middle middle where you shouldn't be, it gives me a lump for a few days... It's all technique too... The more stable the needle is the better the outcome will be.

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    I feel taking NSAID's is counterproductive. We lift to break down the muscle and cause inflammation, which then starts the recovery and muscle building process. NSAID's reduce inflammation and can hinder results. To what extent..? I don't know. By why take gear, lift heavy, and then take something that is going to reduce the effects of the previous too.

    Don't ever take NSAID's unless you're dying. Deal with the pain.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stephenkelly View Post
    Nice write up bro! Good info here for anyone new... I like the way you broke it down.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Thanks alot for your words . I believe this is the kind of information all beginners need to start the right way .

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    Quote Originally Posted by STTM View Post
    I feel taking NSAID's is counterproductive. We lift to break down the muscle and cause inflammation, which then starts the recovery and muscle building process. NSAID's reduce inflammation and can hinder results. To what extent..? I don't know. By why take gear, lift heavy, and then take something that is going to reduce the effects of the previous too.

    Don't ever take NSAID's unless you're dying. Deal with the pain.
    We all know anti inflammatory meds kills gains but if you inject one leg and you are able to walk or train you need to take it for sure . You need to walk to go to work and if you dont train you dont improve . Take anti inflammatory only when needed .

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    This is amazing information you shared. Thanks Monstro!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mski0311 View Post
    This is amazing information you shared. Thanks Monstro!
    I think this is something most people dont talk and we dont have enough information . This is a must for beginners but also for me and all of us .

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    Thanks for the info! I find heating my gear up under hot water equals a smooth pin...try it!

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    Pip has not a thing to do with gear being good or strong 😂 it can mean a lot of things but this isnít one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bft84 View Post
    Pip has not a thing to do with gear being good or strong  it can mean a lot of things but this isnít one.
    What i said is " people think gear that have no PIP is the best " if so why pharma grade Testoviron Bayer give huge pain and PIP ? is not good?

    I never said the strongest the pip the better quality . I said " no pip can be a good sign you are using only oil " .

  14. #14
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    Nice write-up, Monstro! Love what you share on here.
    Cycle: Tren-A 50mg, SUS250 250mg, Mast-E 200mg - Tues/Thurs.
    Recommended Sponsors: Jpal | PSL | GF

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sponx View Post
    Nice write-up, Monstro! Love what you share on here.
    Thanks alot Sponx for your words . Im doing what i love most , helping and learning about my passion ( bodybuilding )

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