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First cycle advice and help appreciated

C

Carguy275

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Ok, Im about to start my first cycle. I am 43, 6ft 2 265. Endomorph frame. I have been lifting since 7th grade with some off time here and there, have gotten back into the gym serious now for the past year and a half. The last four months my workouts consist of. A warm up of 2 mile fast walk either to the gym, or on a treadmill to get a good sweat. Followed by one body part, Mon is chest, with 3 exercises of triceps. Tuesday heavy back, and 3 exercises of bicept. Wednesday is legs, Thursday shoulders, Friday is arms, then followed lifting sessions with 35 to 40 mins of cardio. Mwf bike for 30 to 40 mins, Tuesday Thursday is rowing for 25 to 35 mins
I am starting a cycle
250 ml test cyp week for 8 weeks
50 mg pill of winny each day for 7 weeks.
40 mcg of Clenbuteral for 4 weeks.
I am trying to lean up for summer, I am solid through the shoulders, arms and chest, some old man fat on my stomach and love handles,should this cycle lean me out?
What do you guys think? Any suppliments I should take while on the cycle? Any side effects I should expect? What about Pct? Should I do it after cycle, or during? Or even do it at all since it's my first cycle?
What should I expect taking test and gear for the first time?
Any and all Advice would be appreciated and welcomed.
Thank you
 
For starters I don't think you're going to get much in the way of results from only 250mg of test a week. The general rule is 500mg for a first cycle. I know there are those with a minimalist mentality that might argue that point. 8 weeks is very short. I'd go for 12 weeks at a minimum on the test.

Make sure u have an AI on hand! Very important since u don't know how much your body converts to estrogen given its your first cycle. Very important to have an AI unless u want gyno.

Whinny can be harsh for some guys so be careful with it and be aware of the side effects it can give.

For clen you can't normally just run 40mcg week after week. The body quickly adapts to it. U need to start at 40 then be prepared to up to 60 the next week then 80mcg etc depending on you respond.

PCT should begin 2 weeks after your last shot.
 
Mattwv88 said:
For starters I don't think you're going to get much in the way of results from only 250mg of test a week. The general rule is 500mg for a first cycle. I know there are those with a minimalist mentality that might argue that point. 8 weeks is very short. I'd go for 12 weeks at a minimum on the test.

Make sure u have an AI on hand! Very important since u don't know how much your body converts to estrogen given its your first cycle. Very important to have an AI unless u want gyno.

Whinny can be harsh for some guys so be careful with it and be aware of the side effects it can give.

For clen you can't normally just run 40mcg week after week. The body quickly adapts to it. U need to start at 40 then be prepared to up to 60 the next week then 80mcg etc depending on you respond.

PCT should begin 2 weeks after your last shot.
Click to expand...
I'd also add that given your age you should understand the risk of using gear. While it is unlikely there is the possibility that your natural test won't recover after the cycle and you end up on trt.

While most people bounce back eventually I always like to tell people it is a risk and that risk raises at we age.
 
Thank you for the advice. Now with only 250 a week I want to lean out, will 500 still learn me out?
AI is that anti estrogen? I'm new so I apologize about asking so much,
 
Carguy275 said:
Thank you for the advice. Now with only 250 a week I want to lean out, will 500 still learn me out?
AI is that anti estrogen? I'm new so I apologize about asking so much,
Click to expand...
The gear doesn’t lean you out it bulk you up. That’s all diet and training.
250 will put you Barely above a trt dose.
 
Thank you. My diet is good, when I start gear, I plan to up the protein and dial back carbs.
 
The reason we use test/gear in a caloric deficit is bc it greatly helps retain muscle mass. If you're a newbie it is definitely possible to gain muscle while losing fat. The fat loss obviously being due to your diet and being in a caloric deficit.

Yes an AI is an anti estrogen. AI stands for aromatase inhibitor bc that is the enzyme our bodies use to convert test into estrogen.

Exemastane (Aromasin)
Anastrozole (Armidex)
Those are AI drugs. Letro is another one but don't use letro as a newbie to gear.

Example: 500mg of test a week you would start at 1mg of armidex a week split into 2 doses. Half a tab on say Monday and the other on Thursday. Aromasin you would do 25mg a week split into 2 12.5mg doses.
 
At your age, you should check your baseline test levels BEFORE you ever run gear. There is a decent chance you just need to be on trt and will make good gains from just that. Let that run its course until you plateau (probably 8-12 months). Then think about running a first cycle. Also, ditch the clen. If you're just trying to "look good" clen is too harsh to be running casually. Especially at your age. Winny probably won't be friendly to your joints either (age, age, age).
 
Start with the 250mg of test and see what happens in a month or so. You can always double it later. No need to take winstrol. My guess is that you are under the impression it is a “cutting” drug. As stated above, getting lean is all diet. Taking an AI or any ancillary drug out of the gate or based on “feelz” is reckless at best. Only blood work will assess how much testosterone you do or don’t convert to estrogens. If you want to keep AIs on hand, that’s a smart option rather than running around doing damage control IF you are converting.

Why don’t you post your ACTUAL diet that you eat. Not the one you have written down to in hopes to follow. We can really help you when we see the whole picture.
 
I’m going to be that one guy in the thread that says you should be searching forums first before asking the “first cycle” question. There are many many people who have asked the exact same question as you and the veterans here have given answers. Granted, I was that guy at some point asking a borderline noob question.

The general consensus is that 500mg/wk of testosterone enanthate/cypionate is a good first cycle to assess baseline tolerance to anabolics. The benefit of the testosterone in a cutting phase is that it will spare lean muscle while you cut down on the fat and boost your metabolism by a bit. Even possibly gain muscle in a caloric deficit if you’re genetically blessed.

You should decide wether you’re going to blast and cruise or if you’re going to cycle. Blast and cruise means that you essentially never come off of anabolics and change between high doses of anabolics and a trt/maintenance dose. Cycling is going on for a cycle and then fully coming off of anabolics after with a post cycle therapy (PCT)

Always have Aromatase Inhibitors on hand to ensure that if estrogenic side effects pop up, you can manage your estrogen. This is Aromasin, Arimidex, and letrozole. It is pretty easy to find dosing protocols for these.

Also always have a Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulator (SERM) like Nolvadex or Raloxifene to help deal with estro sides including gynecomastia and also for PCT if you decide to come off completely.

That’s a lot of info, but it’s only a fraction of what you will eventually need to know if you continue with steroids considering each steroid has different side effects and different ways of managing your health while on them.

Thanks,
Nex
 
IML Gear Cream!
Diet, Diet, Diet. You don't need Winstrol and Clen. Stick to 300-400mg of test only for 12-16 weeks. Get blood work done at the 6-8 week mark. The diet is what leans you out. Not the gear
 
I will say if you have everything on point that I don’t think it’d be a bad idea to add the Winstrol the last 6-8 weeks.
 
You definitely don’t need 500mg right off the bat if you have never used any gear before … that’s false info . A myth if you will. If you are going to cycle you don’t need all of that shit . Especially not all at the same time when you know nothing about any of them . What if you get sides ? How you suppose to know what caused it???? You won’t . So you start with 250mg test e or c a week and asses from there . You need to have an ai on hand and pct drugs ready for after the cycle is over . Blood work is for another convo . You never start with all shit or at higher doses of shit you never used . Your just asking for trouble. If you ever had your blood done on real test at 250mg a week you blow away normal levels . This is plenty exposure for a noob to start with and will still make way more gains then natural.
 
Capthowdy87 said:
You definitely don’t need 500mg right off the bat if you have never used any gear before … that’s false info . A myth if you will. If you are going to cycle you don’t need all of that shit . Especially not all at the same time when you know nothing about any of them . What if you get sides ? How you suppose to know what caused it???? You won’t . So you start with 250mg test e or c a week and asses from there . You need to have an ai on hand and pct drugs ready for after the cycle is over . Blood work is for another convo . You never start with all shit or at higher doses of shit you never used . Your just asking for trouble. If you ever had your blood done on real test at 250mg a week you blow away normal levels . This is plenty exposure for a noob to start with and will still make way more gains then natural.
Click to expand...
250mg a week is going to put him at high normal range or slightly above. Your first cycle is generally the best cycle of your life. Why waste your virgin receptors on 250mg? Why not 500mg? Hell even 400mg?

I'll agree completely about the rest. Only run test on your first cycle, period. But as long as you have an AI on hand why not run 400-500mg a week and actually have a "cycle" vs just high dosed trt (250mg) ?
 
Carguy275 said:
Ok, Im about to start my first cycle. I am 43, 6ft 2 265. Endomorph frame. I have been lifting since 7th grade with some off time here and there, have gotten back into the gym serious now for the past year and a half. The last four months my workouts consist of. A warm up of 2 mile fast walk either to the gym, or on a treadmill to get a good sweat. Followed by one body part, Mon is chest, with 3 exercises of triceps. Tuesday heavy back, and 3 exercises of bicept. Wednesday is legs, Thursday shoulders, Friday is arms, then followed lifting sessions with 35 to 40 mins of cardio. Mwf bike for 30 to 40 mins, Tuesday Thursday is rowing for 25 to 35 mins
I am starting a cycle
250 ml test cyp week for 8 weeks
50 mg pill of winny each day for 7 weeks.
40 mcg of Clenbuteral for 4 weeks.
I am trying to lean up for summer, I am solid through the shoulders, arms and chest, some old man fat on my stomach and love handles,should this cycle lean me out?
What do you guys think? Any suppliments I should take while on the cycle? Any side effects I should expect? What about Pct? Should I do it after cycle, or during? Or even do it at all since it's my first cycle?
What should I expect taking test and gear for the first time?
Any and all Advice would be appreciated and welcomed.
Thank you
Click to expand...
I’m a beginner myself but I think that’s a good first cycle. I did 200 mg a week of test for 8 weeks for my first (I’m 38) cycle and it went well. I felt and seen visible results with basically no bad side affects. Nothing to get too excited about but I did personally see good gains and strength increase. Your training seems to be a bit intensely scattered but if your trying to lean out and you like your program and feel good with it than stick to it. Take an ai like Anastrozole or an otc estrogen blocker. I may help keep down on water bulking. And you don’t know how you convert the estrogen yet. Better safe than sorry. I would do at least a light pct. One week after you stop test maybe do two weeks on clomiphene at least. Again, I’m a rookie myself so take it with a grain a salt and do the research.
 
GOD
I must write this 5x a wk...!!
Listen it's not a Nuclear WarHead to dismantle..It's a First Cycle.. Opinions very due to Results...Period..!!
Until a Great reason to change comes along..This is pretty much carved in Stone...
1..
Test Only...and even the second IF you plan on staying the Lifestyle..
2...
The Reason
At 500mgs..you will shut down your own production(if you still have any).and you Will feel IT..Everybody is different when it comes to needed an AI..You need to establish for you if it's Needed..at 500 you might or might not...Second cycle should be Test again at a higher dose 700 to 750..this is a lot more and an AI is Very possibly needed..You need to know what dose of Test YOU take requires an AI..PERIOD..!!
3...
People think you need 3 and 5 compounds to get big..Not So!!
Most do great on Test alone,plus more compounds=more sides and health concerns..
4...
Only add one New compound per cycle..If things flare-up..its that compound..By adding two or three and high doses...Good Luck..
5...
Always have everything on Hand..AI's..PCT..Pins..Everything or Wait..
6...
BloodWork..before..during..and after..Before will establish a baseline to look back on just to see how far of those Compounds effected you..If below normal range PCT is useless and it TRT time..Very simple stuff here..
Basically,common sense..
7...
Do your research on Everything Before your 1st pin..Most Don't and so the horror threads..then ask Educated Questions..
Believe me We know..No Spoon Feeding..
8...
Learn from others with yrs of experience..you can tell..Read..
9...
Usually best to be training before a run to get the body ready for the Turbo installation..
10...
Be smart..get a proper sterile protocol for pinning BEFORE you pin..and where and how to pin..

These are some pointers with Explanations..
I spent 4 to 6 months researching before I pinned and I wish I did more...but that was 20+ yrs ago with no WWW.

You are at one of IF not the best place for help..Read..ask.. and repeat..We are ALL here to Help..
Z...
 
But Z, if he follows your advice, who’s going to start a dozen threads about sides, problems and asking about damage control?
 
Everyone wants to Re-Invent the Wheel..!!
Even me....but sometimes just listening really helps.. Hell I left out a ton of stuff..was being nice..damned if you do...damned if you Don't...
Z...
 
Everybody is different..for me 400 mg a week of test I had no sides at 500 I did....with an ai ....I'm 52 clen would kill me...lol I never liked that stuff way to harsh on my body....one thing I can say is don't be in a hurry...I was away from gear for over 20 years before I started again...I read and read everything I could for over a year before actually starting...also the older you ate the harder pct is to get you back....may need to go the trt route that's what I do but again read read learn listen to guys that have the knowledge.....
 
250 a week might be great for you especially at your age . I am 41 with low t and 250 will definitely put you at a level that is higher than you were at 18 you will be able to get good results . It would be a good idea to get pre cycle bloods just to see where you stand . You may decide to go the trt route . I also feel like clen is harsh to take just to lose some belly fat , tighten up your diet and keep the cardio and With the higher test level you will see results they won’t be ass good as say 500 a week but will work for you and I would run it 12-14 weeks
 
Mattwv88 said:
The reason we use test/gear in a caloric deficit is bc it greatly helps retain muscle mass. If you're a newbie it is definitely possible to gain muscle while losing fat. The fat loss obviously being due to your diet and being in a caloric deficit.

Yes an AI is an anti estrogen. AI stands for aromatase inhibitor bc that is the enzyme our bodies use to convert test into estrogen.

Exemastane (Aromasin)
Anastrozole (Armidex)
Those are AI drugs. Letro is another one but don't use letro as a newbie to gear.

Example: 500mg of test a week you would start at 1mg of armidex a week split into 2 doses. Half a tab on say Monday and the other on Thursday. Aromasin you would do 25mg a week split into 2 12.5mg doses.
Click to expand...
I wouldn't use a pre-determined AI at [X] point in the cycle. You might not need an AI BUT if you do you're using too much test IMO. Better to just lay off the AI and stack something else on top of it. No point in shooting test to the sky and using an AI putting stress on your body for no reason when you could lower test, have no AI, and stack another compound yielding superior results with less unnecessary organ stress on the body.
 
Mattwv88 said:
250mg a week is going to put him at high normal range or slightly above. Your first cycle is generally the best cycle of your life. Why waste your virgin receptors on 250mg? Why not 500mg? Hell even 400mg?

I'll agree completely about the rest. Only run test on your first cycle, period. But as long as you have an AI on hand why not run 400-500mg a week and actually have a "cycle" vs just high dosed trt (250mg) ?
Click to expand...

To each his own when it comes to dosing . You could definitely argue both sides of that coin . Me personally if I was to have the chance to do it again I’d start with the 250 to see how I react in the first 4-6 weeks and go from there. I was a dumb ass when I started this and knew nothing of an ai . I have never taken them and just got lucky to not get gyno from gear use . I’m glad bc it’s just 1 more drug to take that I’d rather not if I don’t need it .
 
I recommend you use test only for your first cycle. Use aromasin for conversion control. If you really need to, then a few weeks of clen at the end.
Typically just some test, clean diet & weights will clean up the "old guy fat" esp if its your first cycle.

Winny can be hard on your joints and you could end up feeling like shit or injured.

Dont add other compounds until you see what test does for you after 8-12 weeks. Take notes.
Simply going high protein on your diet and eliminating junk foods can be profound.

Best wishes
 
First cycle, 500 test only, clean diet to shed fat off, train like animal, get rest, eat, train more. Be avare, long esters take up to 4-5 weeks to kick in, patience is required. 12 weeks minimum. Be sure at that age, PCT is pain in the ass, I know, I'm 48, started at 40, did several PCTs, now on TRT. Think thru it carefully, its a life time commitment. Respect gear, its great, its powerfull, makes you feel like a flying lion. But its also dangerous if you dont treat gear as it shoud be treted, with respect. Knowledge will come in time, no one here was born with wisdom, trial and error mostly. Have fun, feel great, look your best.
 
Marisol1973 said:
First cycle, 500 test only, clean diet to shed fat off, train like animal, get rest, eat, train more. Be avare, long esters take up to 4-5 weeks to kick in, patience is required. 12 weeks minimum. Be sure at that age, PCT is pain in the ass, I know, I'm 48, started at 40, did several PCTs, now on TRT. Think thru it carefully, its a life time commitment. Respect gear, its great, its powerfull, makes you feel like a flying lion. But its also dangerous if you dont treat gear as it shoud be treted, with respect. Knowledge will come in time, no one here was born with wisdom, trial and error mostly. Have fun, feel great, look your best.
Click to expand...
they don’t kick in. Take a shot of test e or c and go get bloods drawn the next day.
They take time to reach peak concentration levels but they literally start working immediately
 
Bft84 said:
they don’t kick in. Take a shot of test e or c and go get bloods drawn the next day.
They take time to reach peak concentration levels but they literally start working immediately
Click to expand...
Well, you know what I mean 👍 full potential is reached in a few weeks.
 
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