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Advise, criticism, goals.

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Hey op.

I had a very similar body type to you about 4 years ago. Turns out my test was ridiculously low. After being put on TRT my life changed. I had an appetite and didn't have to force feed myself.

4 years later I did my first cycle (test 650mg weekly) and things got even better.

You're in good hands here. I look forward to hearing about how this goes for you.
 
Looking forward to following your progress!! Hope you get all of your questions answered and any help that you need. Your in a great position to climb that ladder!! Good luck with your quest !!

Max
 
Great post. Need to eat more. You must eat until it hurts.
 
Now damn it .............go change not your body...your life Bull...Best thread I've seen come together in years...You have just received more help in 1 day than most of us got in 5 years..The info and hardcore advice you received,,read it again several times,take notes about what you are doing wrong,what needs to change and make a plan...Points that I noticed that you may have overlooked..1- Garlic,had a great point,where is your natural test at before you start..............If it's too low,a cycle with PCT might be a huge waste.....2-I would say the largest portion of your effort is training......should be 3rd...........Diet,eating.then recovery............3-Diet is your biggest weakness,,you want it really bad...???Here 's how make nutrition #1 in your life,wake up reading,read and research during lunch break and night reading...When you find something you're doing wrong -right it down,make notes of changes to be made,go to the store and get what you need.....and change....Hard gainer or Ecto or whatever they call it ,,,comes down to food intake....I took a big cooler to work everyday-potatoes,shakes,sandwiches,fruit,pasta,rice and beans..................eat a dinner before working out and another after...Mark W....2 breakfast everyday...Food,Food,Food.....then 45-60 min in and out of the gym.........then solid rest......at 27 that might be a challenge.................................More advice will come in ,,,but you have a great head start...Now How Bad Do You Want IT..!!!
 
Now damn it .............go change not your body...your life Bull...Best thread I've seen come together in years...You have just received more help in 1 day than most of us got in 5 years..The info and hardcore advice you received,,read it again several times,take notes about what you are doing wrong,what needs to change and make a plan...Points that I noticed that you may have overlooked..1- Garlic,had a great point,where is your natural test at before you start..............If it's too low,a cycle with PCT might be a huge waste.....2-I would say the largest portion of your effort is training......should be 3rd...........Diet,eating.then recovery............3-Diet is your biggest weakness,,you want it really bad...???Here 's how make nutrition #1 in your life,wake up reading,read and research during lunch break and night reading...When you find something you're doing wrong -right it down,make notes of changes to be made,go to the store and get what you need.....and change....Hard gainer or Ecto or whatever they call it ,,,comes down to food intake....I took a big cooler to work everyday-potatoes,shakes,sandwiches,fruit,pasta,rice and beans..................eat a dinner before working out and another after...Mark W....2 breakfast everyday...Food,Food,Food.....then 45-60 min in and out of the gym.........then solid rest......at 27 that might be a challenge.................................More advice will come in ,,,but you have a great head start...Now How Bad Do You Want IT..!!!

Hey bud thank you for reaching out first and foremost and urging me to get out there. Also I would have replied to your message but it says your inbox is full. Thanks again.


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Hey bud thank you for reaching out first and foremost and urging me to get out there. Also I would have replied to your message but it says your inbox is full. Thanks again.


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yes he NEEDS to clear in box!!!!!!!!
 
I’ve been going super hard the past 3 months, over the past 3 years it’s been sporadic and honestly a waste of time. Would be serious for a month or two and then get lazy. Generally I’ll either train chest/arms/back and shoulders/ legs or I’ll do chest and triceps, back and biceps, shoulders and legs. I incorporate core on every gym day in some fashion. Generally train pyramid or reverse pyramid style, some days mainly free weights some days mainly machines I really try and keep my muscles guessing though.


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Gotcha. I was going to suggest starting beginning/intermediate DC but it might be a little early for that. I've found the best success for muscle gain with DC style rest-pause training, bar none. Many will agree it's one of the best for pure size gain. My personal number 2 is Mountaindog. What most don't realize is that John Meadows does always push progressive overload with his style, not just volume. This has worked out to be my favorite style because I can balance proper progressive overload with injury prevention better than with straight DC. I'll lay out an example of how I structure my workouts here.


Mon - Chest/delts
Tues - Back & calves
Wed - Off
Thurs- Legs
Fri - Arms
Sat - Off or a light pump workout
Sun - Off

The workouts go like this:

1st exercise is to warmup and get the blood flowing. Progressively heavier sets working up to a tough 12. For chest it's usually machine press, back is assisted pullups, etc.

2nd: Progressive overload/heavy movements. This is the same exercise every week during a training cycle. Each week I strive to beat the logbook with either more weight or more reps with the same weight. I switch these out when I either start to plateau or it starts bothering me (I'm injury prone). Usually straight sets working up to an all out set of 6-8, or if I get stuck I'll throw in a DC style rest-pause set with the same weight.

3rd: Pump exercise. Something to really get the blood flowing. Machine press, plate loaded machine press, DB rows, Smith rows, machine rows, etc. I'll leave these off at first and add it in to progress intensity during training cycle

4th: Work from stretched position. Pec deck flyes, cable flyes, DB pullovers, stretchers, etc

For delts I typically hit all 3 heads starting with rear or middle. I switch up weight and volume because I've found my delts respond best to more volume vs overload. Something like DB hang and swings, lateral raises of some sort, then I finish with a pressing movement. My shoulders are already gravelly enough...

Legs I have stuck with a combo DC/Mountaindog style because they respond to heavy weights followed by being blasted into oblivion. Hamstring curls first to get the blood flowing. I progressively overload these with weight and volume as a training cycle progresses. Then I warm up my quads and do my heavy movement, which is squats or leg press, I alternate. 2 sets of 6 is what I shoot for. Then I move to the next exercise, where I do a high rep set of 20-25 on something like hacks or something I can rack easily. Then walking lunges until I can't walk or leg extensions supersetted with step ups are my go tos. Then RDLs to work the hams from the hinge side.

Being young, beginner DC might work out for you too since your recovery will be better than mine. It's extremely hard but it works
 
WHAT ......nearly 4 pages and no fighting, arguing,WT is this forum coming.......
 
So I’d just like to shout out each and every person that left a comment on this, or reached out to me. This was an extremely uplifting and welcoming thing for someone like me who is just getting their feet wet per say.

I am completely thrilled to say I am gonna take vision up on his sponsorship offer and make a log on behalf of PSL. This will be my first go and there are tons of people that have offered tons of guidance and help and I am extremely in debt to each of you.

What an amazing forum you guys have created, so much knowledge and experience in one place. Taking time out of your days to help a rookie like me says a lot about each of you. Thanks again guys


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Get Shredded!
So I’d just like to shout out each and every person that left a comment on this, or reached out to me. This was an extremely uplifting and welcoming thing for someone like me who is just getting their feet wet per say.

I am completely thrilled to say I am gonna take vision up on his sponsorship offer and make a log on behalf of PSL. This will be my first go and there are tons of people that have offered tons of guidance and help and I am extremely in debt to each of you.

What an amazing forum you guys have created, so much knowledge and experience in one place. Taking time out of your days to help a rookie like me says a lot about each of you. Thanks again guys


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Glad you are making a go for this. Looking forward to the log.
 
Gotcha. I was going to suggest starting beginning/intermediate DC but it might be a little early for that. I've found the best success for muscle gain with DC style rest-pause training, bar none. Many will agree it's one of the best for pure size gain. My personal number 2 is Mountaindog. What most don't realize is that John Meadows does always push progressive overload with his style, not just volume. This has worked out to be my favorite style because I can balance proper progressive overload with injury prevention better than with straight DC. I'll lay out an example of how I structure my workouts here.


Mon - Chest/delts
Tues - Back & calves
Wed - Off
Thurs- Legs
Fri - Arms
Sat - Off or a light pump workout
Sun - Off

The workouts go like this:

1st exercise is to warmup and get the blood flowing. Progressively heavier sets working up to a tough 12. For chest it's usually machine press, back is assisted pullups, etc.

2nd: Progressive overload/heavy movements. This is the same exercise every week during a training cycle. Each week I strive to beat the logbook with either more weight or more reps with the same weight. I switch these out when I either start to plateau or it starts bothering me (I'm injury prone). Usually straight sets working up to an all out set of 6-8, or if I get stuck I'll throw in a DC style rest-pause set with the same weight.

3rd: Pump exercise. Something to really get the blood flowing. Machine press, plate loaded machine press, DB rows, Smith rows, machine rows, etc. I'll leave these off at first and add it in to progress intensity during training cycle

4th: Work from stretched position. Pec deck flyes, cable flyes, DB pullovers, stretchers, etc

For delts I typically hit all 3 heads starting with rear or middle. I switch up weight and volume because I've found my delts respond best to more volume vs overload. Something like DB hang and swings, lateral raises of some sort, then I finish with a pressing movement. My shoulders are already gravelly enough...

Legs I have stuck with a combo DC/Mountaindog style because they respond to heavy weights followed by being blasted into oblivion. Hamstring curls first to get the blood flowing. I progressively overload these with weight and volume as a training cycle progresses. Then I warm up my quads and do my heavy movement, which is squats or leg press, I alternate. 2 sets of 6 is what I shoot for. Then I move to the next exercise, where I do a high rep set of 20-25 on something like hacks or something I can rack easily. Then walking lunges until I can't walk or leg extensions supersetted with step ups are my go tos. Then RDLs to work the hams from the hinge side.

Being young, beginner DC might work out for you too since your recovery will be better than mine. It's extremely hard but it works
This sounds very similar to mountaindog training and is basically how I’m training right now
 

Dude you got some seriously knowledgeable people giving you info from experience not copy paste. Good for you. This is the kinda info people pay $$$ for.
 
Last edited:
So I’d just like to shout out each and every person that left a comment on this, or reached out to me. This was an extremely uplifting and welcoming thing for someone like me who is just getting their feet wet per say.

I am completely thrilled to say I am gonna take vision up on his sponsorship offer and make a log on behalf of PSL. This will be my first go and there are tons of people that have offered tons of guidance and help and I am extremely in debt to each of you.

What an amazing forum you guys have created, so much knowledge and experience in one place. Taking time out of your days to help a rookie like me says a lot about each of you. Thanks again guys


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PSL is quality gear. One of the first sponsors I ever used. I’m happy to help with anything along the way as well if you ever need anything.
 
Yeah this response really blew me away! Like everyone else said, good for you on coming out hard with pictures and well written post. That's what got you all the love. We don't get that often.

Glad you're taking up Vision and PSL on the offer. He will be a wealth of knowledge for you and PSL is highly regarded. Like Cruefan said, you have some really great input from a lot of vets in here which is pretty unheard of. This is the first time I've seen a full ASF rally around a newcomer like this so consider yourself blessed for that. I don't even want to guess at the cumulative years of experience that's already chimed in here.

Not to sound like a broken record but the single best piece of advice (other than eat more food) was from Garlic when he mentioned to get your bloods pulled before you hop on cycle. Many of us didn't think that far ahead and never had a baseline to go back and reference. This is extremely important for you and your only chance to really get it. You can get them done privately for around $100 and it will be a great investment. While you're waiting on your supplements from PSL to land, go get that bloodwork done.

I'll be following along, and I will be super jealous at all of the awesome food you will get to eat. We have completely different body types.
 
Hope you find all the help you need here. Gear wise, test like you stated and add some dbol. Great beginner cycle. Food needs work. Want some advice? HIRE A COACH. This is from experience myself, it will be the best thing youve ever put money into. Someone to help guide you and understand nutrition and your body and how it reacts.
 
Here's a rundown of my diet. This is a solid bulking plan to start with imo. Sorry for taking so long to get it to you


Meal 110oz Egg Whites
2 Packs Oats
1tbsp Macadamia Nut Oil
2tbsp ground flax


Meal 24.5oz Chicken Breast
2c White Rice
2tbsp EVOO

Meal 3
4.5oz Chicken Breast
2c White Rice
2tbsp EVOO

Meal 4/Intra
10g EAAs
40g carbs from dextrose/HBCD/maltodextrin/waxy maize

Meal 5/Post Workout
10oz Egg Whites
4 Rice Cakes

Meal 6
8oz 90/10 or lean beef
2c White Rice


This will being you to about 3200 calories, with 250g protein, 450g carbs, and 102g fats. You can add another meal before bed of something like Fage yogurt with blueberries and natural peanut butter or almond butter to add in more good calories as well.
 
This may be slightly out of context considering I have already posted a topic for insight on a beginner cycle. With that being said I’d like to give somewhat of a back story/ day in the life of me in hopes for some real advise/constructive criticism.

I’m 27, currently 6’2 weighing in around 165. I’m obviously a hard gainer and an extreme ectomorph. Been training for 3 years but didn’t necessarily get extremely serious with it until the past few months which is where I’ve made most of my gains. Roughly 20 pounds in the last 3 months, picture attached.

A normal day for me would contain breakfast, typically 4 eggs some days I’ll add a meat but generally just eggs. I’ll take a mass gainer shake around mid morning (450 calories 35g protein) lunch time I’ll usually eat a solid meat and 3 veggies, usually some peanut butter throughout the afternoon to satisfy hunger, dinner that evening typically chicken and rice or beef and rice followed with some more peanut butter b4 bed time. I take bcaas and creatine daily, train 3-5 days a week on the weeks I can go 5 I’ll re work my legs and chest since they are my weak point. No my diet is not perfect. I do have generally 2 meals a week that I’ll cheat on. I drink at least a gallon of water a day. Rarely have any other drinks maybe a Red Bull here and there in the mornings.

I posted a thread a while back about running my first cycle and have somewhat decided on cyp only. I know this will not be some miracle thing for me especially if I don’t eat right and train hard. Really just looking for some solid knowledge from some experienced people. My goal would be to get myself around 180-190 solid, I would rather keep a somewhat lean physique.

This picture attached was 3 months ago and now 145-165
dc7a752bd3df47743309164470ed252b.jpg



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How’s it going TheRealBull? Did you begin your training and diet?? Just checking on ya!


Max
 
Training and diet are in full swing, no touchdown on gear yet. Went to the doc and hand some blood work done, had a small set back with my blood pressure being irregular for me (high end) I’ve been feeling great, I feel like just since I changed my training plan and diet I have made some quality gains on my own without the gear so I can’t wait to get this boat on the water for real and start seeing some serious gains.


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Sounds like your on the right track. Hopefully your BP was temporary, I’d track it a couple times at resting throughout a day or two and see if it was just white coat syndrome or a fluke.

Max
 
Pretty easy solution actually.

Drop reps, lift heavier and less reps. Take longer rest breaks during the workout but still don't stay more then 1 hour or so a workout.

Push Pull on all workout days. Might even benefit from 1 muscle group per week at first tbh.

Next and the key is liquid nutrition. This is a formula I use with my clients and I used with myself in the 90's as I am an ectomorph as well.

Liquid Nutrition
8-12 oz of whole milk
1 scoop of protein powder (I prefer Problend as it is a 4 blend powder
http://stores.gymntonic.com/problend-4-protein-blend-1-ranked-protein-gymntonic-by-raw-dynamix/
1 banana
1 lowfat yogurt
2 tbsps of Low Fat Peanut Butter
ice cubes
1/4 cup of raw oats (puree in a blender or coffee grinder first if need be)


Drink 3 of these a day in addition to jacking up your whole food intake with primarily meats, eggs, steak, chicken, beef, seafood, etc.

It works like a charm, you just have to trust it and you do need to invest the money into these foods.
 
e1569d85bbf32010e80b28a6d331a26d.jpg


Touchdown! Huge thanks to vision, I’m getting ready to gear up and get this log going, went to the doc a few weeks ago and got some before hand bloods, my blood pressure was through the roof which is kinda alarming it’s never high. Spending the next week or so rounding up needles and hopefully getting my BP in check. Any light on what needles and stuff I’ll need for this 12 week cycle of enanthate twice a week and hcg twice a week would be solid.


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e1569d85bbf32010e80b28a6d331a26d.jpg


Touchdown! Huge thanks to vision, I’m getting ready to gear up and get this log going, went to the doc a few weeks ago and got some before hand bloods, my blood pressure was through the roof which is kinda alarming it’s never high. Spending the next week or so rounding up needles and hopefully getting my BP in check. Any light on what needles and stuff I’ll need for this 12 week cycle of enanthate twice a week and hcg twice a week would be solid.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

25g 1/2in or 5/8 should do it bro for the test.
 
I would do 1" or 1.5" in glutes and 5/8" are fine in quads and delts. If I'm running equal or less than 1cc weekly I honestly use 27g 1/2" slin pins to pin it. Takes a while to draw but it's really easy on you to inject. Helps to warm the oil
 
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