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AI vs. SERM please chime in

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    AI vs. SERM please chime in

    I know this is an old topic, but are there any of you here who can honestly say that you used to use AI's during gear cycles, and you stopped using them, and began using either Nolvadex, or Evista, (Raloxifene) and as a result began making noticebly better gains from the same AAS compounds than you previously used while you were using AI's??? Many of you guys are very knowledgeable, so ofcourse I'm open to hearing opinions and theories too, since I might learn something new, but I'm especially hoping that someone with experience in the area of dropping the AI use who replaced them with SARMs will chime in here to talk about any differences they might have experienced in the way of increased gains as a result of steering clear of AI use.

    And BTW, if there is anyone, then please make mention of which AI's, SARMs, and gear you were using, related to the differences you've noticed in gains. This might be a tall order to hope for such information, but I thought I'd give it a shot.
    Last edited by REHH; 12-02-2019 at 09:56 AM.

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    Do you mean serms with an E? As in nolva, clomid etc?

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    Quote Originally Posted by TripleOvertime View Post
    Do you mean serms with an E? As in nolva, clomid etc?
    Yes, my bad. thanks for the correction. Perhaps one of you mods can correct the title for me?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tall Deck View Post
    Yes, my bad. thanks for the correction. Perhaps one of you mods can correct the title for me?
    Let me see what I can do...
    Last edited by TripleOvertime; 12-02-2019 at 09:51 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tall Deck View Post
    Yes, my bad. thanks for the correction. Perhaps one of you mods can correct the title for me?
    I fixed it. Serms do not lower estrogen, only block the receptors. AIs actually lower your estrogen. I will always use an ai first, and a serm like nolva in addition to an ai when needed. Times when I occasionally need nolvadex is when I run things that cause gyno through alternative Pathways like 19 Nors and Anadrol
    Last edited by REHH; 12-02-2019 at 01:15 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by REHH View Post
    I fixed it. Serms do not lower estrogen, only block the receptors. AIs actually lower your estrogen. I will always use an ai first, and a serms like nolva in addition to an ai when needed. Times when I occasionally need nolvadex is when I run things that cause gyno through alternative Pathways like 19 Nors and Anadrol
    Thank you for fixing that. I understand how the two work in different ways. My focus i this thread is how some guys claim that AI's are not only much worse for your health than SERMs are, but some even claim that AI's will hinder your gains form AAS much more than SERMS can. i am gyno prone but I've run high doses of Anadrol for 8 weeks straight using nothing but Aromasin intermittently, and didn't get any gyno. But I know that everyone is different, and this isn't always an exact science we deal with concerning AAS use, (especially when it comes to compounds like Anadrol).

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    Gonna sub to this thread so I can reply when I have more time later. I would be one of those people, but I have been kind of rethinking those things lately.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GarlicChicken View Post
    Gonna sub to this thread so I can reply when I have more time later. I would be one of those people, but I have been kind of rethinking those things lately.
    OK GC, I look forward to your input

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    I've had spiked E2 of 150-ish before and discovered that fortunately I'm not gyno-prone. But I still want my E2 < 50 on a cycle, and ideally in the 20's, due to some studies suggesting serious harm if you get out of range. Whether those studies still apply to guys when you've got super high T levels to "balance out" the estrogen, who can say, but I'm going with caution there.

    Anyway, that would preclude a SERM strategy replacing AI. Doesn't really address your question specifically but hey you know that's how it goes sometimes. Time for scrambled eggs, bacon, toast, and Entourage binge. Alright.

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    If you aromitase heavily, best to use an ai.

    If you don't, or, you can't dial in an ai without crushing your estrogen, SERMs.

    There really isn't any real magic to only using SERMs, it just doesn't give you the opportunity to crush your estrogen which can definitely limit growth.

    One thing with nolvadex though, it is shown to have a negative impact on igf which isn't great but, neither is eliminating aromitase which will also negatively effect igf.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Montego1 View Post
    If you aromitase heavily, best to use an ai.

    If you don't, or, you can't dial in an ai without crushing your estrogen, SERMs.

    There really isn't any real magic to only using SERMs, it just doesn't give you the opportunity to crush your estrogen which can definitely limit growth.

    One thing with nolvadex though, it is shown to have a negative impact on igf which isn't great but, neither is eliminating aromitase which will also negatively effect igf.
    Also, one upside of a serm would be eliminating any negative effect some AI's have on cholesterol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chocolatemalt View Post
    I've had spiked E2 of 150-ish before and discovered that fortunately I'm not gyno-prone. But I still want my E2 < 50 on a cycle, and ideally in the 20's, due to some studies suggesting serious harm if you get out of range. Whether those studies still apply to guys when you've got super high T levels to "balance out" the estrogen, who can say, but I'm going with caution there.

    Anyway, that would preclude a SERM strategy replacing AI. Doesn't really address your question specifically but hey you know that's how it goes sometimes. Time for scrambled eggs, bacon, toast, and Entourage binge. Alright.
    Looks like all good info to me there Choco. Thank you

    Quote Originally Posted by Montego1 View Post
    If you aromitase heavily, best to use an ai.

    If you don't, or, you can't dial in an ai without crushing your estrogen, SERMs.

    There really isn't any real magic to only using SERMs, it just doesn't give you the opportunity to crush your estrogen which can definitely limit growth.

    One thing with nolvadex though, it is shown to have a negative impact on igf which isn't great but, neither is eliminating aromitase which will also negatively effect igf.
    Thanks Monte. I was overlooking the IGF factor. I'm not postive about this, but I'm thinking that Evista, (Raloxifene) does NOT share the negative impact on IGF with Nolvadex.
    Quote Originally Posted by Montego1 View Post
    Also, one upside of a serm would be eliminating any negative effect some AI's have on cholesterol.
    I believe that Aromasin is easier on the cholestrol thing than most other AI's are.

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    I'm interested in using masteron to mitigate having to use as much a.i.

    Sent from my moto g(7) play using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tall Deck View Post
    Looks like all good info to me there Choco. Thank you

    Thanks Monte. I was overlooking the IGF factor. I'm not postive about this, but I'm thinking that Evista, (Raloxifene) does NOT share the negative impact on IGF with Nolvadex.
    I believe that Aromasin is easier on the cholestrol thing than most other AI's are.
    Aromasin is but, it's not nearly as available, or as known to most outside of the forum even, as adex is in general.

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    Quote Originally Posted by REHH View Post
    I fixed it. Serms do not lower estrogen, only block the receptors. AIs actually lower your estrogen. I will always use an ai first, and a serm like nolva in addition to an ai when needed. Times when I occasionally need nolvadex is when I run things that cause gyno through alternative Pathways like 19 Nors and Anadrol
    This is good info right here. A lot of guys have no clue that Anadrol can cause gyno or elevated prolactin

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