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Murmur and enlarged heart

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After being in this game for over 40 years I can say that trenbolones are rough on the body. I've seen a lot of heart disease and some heart transplants in guys that abused the stuff.
I have an idea of what “abuse” means but I might be in the minority. I can say that use or abuse doesn’t mean you are going to have problems. I don’t have 40 years in the game because that means I would have had to start at 16 but I can say that I have likely used hundreds of doses of Tren in 30+ years and my heart looks fine. In fact, when the tech was doing the echo, she called over her students to show them what a good image of a healthy heart looked like. She said she had been doing fatties and unhealthy people all day.

There’s a thread somewhere with a guy with HBP as his norm, using Tren and other gear anyway. To what point?

There is a saying about making your bed...
I don’t wish I’ll health on anyone but my favorite quote might be Super Chicken. “You knew the job was dangerous when took it.”
 
#1 drop to TRT and plan on that for at least 6 months
#2 reduce very heavy lifting and transition to higher rep, lighter weights
#3 add more cardio
#4 transition to a cardio protective diet. Omega 3 fish oils and fibrous veggies
#5 follow doctor orders

Do all this first before adding more drugs or sups. The heart and body is amazing if you reduce all the inflammation you are adding into it. I was a bit older than you when I realized orals and Tren were no longer part of my life. After a 6 month cruise and all the above I felt so much better.
 
Not to start anything but,,,hundreds of doses of Tren ????? Tren is hard on the body...does anyone disagree?? It comes down to this....1-what compounds used..2-doses of that compound....3- duration...Not to mention the combinations of harsh compounds...ie....Drol with EQ..........and if you don't understand that,you shouldn't be HERE............CC I was right there with you perfectly healthy in my 30's and 40's ,,,,but the long haul is where it tolls the body....I was stupid years ago and ran a cycle 14 months....I didn't pay then but I did later,and still paying....Now if you want to take this in a totally different direction and talk about addition to hard drugs...the evidence is over whelming....
 
FMy point was that Tren, which might be harsh on the body, more for some people than others, isn’t the necessary direct causative for heart issues. Nor is the use or abuse of any steroid. Any time someone seems to get a disease, they like to point directly to something that caused it and that usually isn’t something they want to take direct responsibility for. Like Lyle Alzado and his blaming steroids on brain cancer. Like people don’t get brain cancer otherwise. The dozens of brain injuries he likely had in his career couldn’t have possibly contributed? Uh, ok, right.
What is harsh? Where was it I saw the other day a physician saying he’d rather see his kid on cocaine than alcohol? You touched on it by mentioning hard drugs. Ever see the scarring of a heart from continuous heroin use?

So everything has a price and in varying degrees. You can’t blame an enlarged heart on trenbolone.

You implied I used hyperbole. So let’s do the math..
In 1989 I used at least 50 doses. I know because I bought 200 vials of parabolan which I split with three other buddies.
Last year I used three doses per week of Tren for 5 weeks prior to a show and 8 weeks prior to the next one. That’s close enough to 100 doses. There’s 29 years of off and on gear use between. In 2007-08 I converted and used up a 50ml vial of Finaplix. Not a stretch in any way thinking I have used 100s of doses of Tren.
 
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Definitely find a good cardiologist.* Let them determine what BP meds to use, and the severity of the enlarged heart.* Many heart murmurs are harmless, but if caused by aortic stenosis (a narrowing of the aortic heart valve) you will need to have regular echo’s done every 6 to 12 months to monitor.** It may never get worse, but if it develops into severe aortic stenosis you will need to have aortic heart valve replacement surgery.* *Bottom line is let the cardiologist tell you what is causing the murmur and give you a plan of action regarding meds for high BP
 
First,, I see your points and respect your opinion, as well as a fellow brother in the game....My point if any was,,,We all have to be aware and cautious as to what we use...And as we age,the body just doesn't bounce back ,,just took me 2 weeks to recover from a simple surgery....bottom line-the harsher the compound the more it taxes the body,BUT the longer you do that the more of a chance of something breaking down....Remember Tren has only been out since the 80's or 90's....Moreover, commonly used since the 2000's....who knows the backlash in 20 years??? Remember the drug Gorm(I think that's how it's spelled)???..How many died years later from use??
 
I second the suggestion of Metropolol. It lowered my BP from 160/110 to 135/78 in 2 months. An added benefit is that it drops your resting heart rate as well...most other BP drugs don't do that. The only bad thing...it can make you lethargic...doses range from 50-400 mg/day. I'm at 200mg and I definitely have experienced a significant loss of energy but I'd rather be alive and lacking energy than be dead by 50.
 
I think you're taking the issue of cardiomyopathy awfully lightly. Not paying attention to LVH (or any other type of heart issues) is good way to wind up dead while you're playing catch in the back yard with your kid. Hence why so many bodybuilders have been keeling over dead lately. LVH leads to more issues later on, including the rest of the heart growing
I guess my post came off as me just down playing it or saying f it which isn’t really what I was trying to do however out of all heart issues I would say it’s the least to be concerned about. The heart is never something to take lightly especially in this game my take on it is of your spending money on gear you should be spending money on taking care of your heart as well. Take as many heart healthy supplements as possible and monitor your bp a few times a week. If you have high bp don’t just write it off to oh I’m on cycle I’ll check it when I come off. It’s easy to get a prescription for bp meds I’d recommend anyone get them who needs them even if your the type who only needs them while on cycle that’s still a lot of time per year for some guys that’s more than half a year or even a whole year. I personally take bp meds as well as plenty of omegas, Hawthorne berry extract, CoQ10, and my favorite and the one I find works the best for high BP is garlic extract. It will definitely make your breath smell like garlic and sometimes your sweat as well but it’s definitely worth it. Before I started taking garlic extract I was on 2 different bp meds and had tried several without the success I was looking for. The best my top number would get was around 145 and at that point I was already cruising and figured since my high bp was hereditary using aas wasn’t for me. After my first month on garlic extract without changing anything else my top number was down to 130 and now I don’t see it ever higher than 125
 
I went to see the dr a couple of weeks ago and was told that I had a heart murmur . I had an echo done yesterday and was told that I had some wooshing due to leaking valves and the left side of my heart was enlarged . The heart is functioning fine but is bigger than normal guess it’s time to give up the tren . Does anyone else have any info or knowledge on this .

My brother was diagnosed with a murmur YEARS ago. He's done plenty of AAS without any issues.

The enlarged part is something probably all of us who use regularly will deal with.

I would start putting heart health first on the list of supps, something we should all be doing anyways.
 
My brother was diagnosed with a murmur YEARS ago. He's done plenty of AAS without any issues.

The enlarged part is something probably all of us who use regularly will deal with.

I would start putting heart health first on the list of supps, something we should all be doing anyways.

So because your brother was diagnosed with a murmur years ago with AAS use and no issues Frank should ignore it? That is horrible advice. I too was diagnosed with a mild heart murmur several years ago. Not sure what role AAS use played into it, if any.... but I eventually developed severe aortic stenosis. At that point I was told I had a 50% chance of living for 2 years. Uh, I opted to have aortic heart valve replacement surgery. Back in the gym, kicking butt, only 200mg test a week of course. But if I would have ignored it.... I would be dead
 
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Ya Monte! Why did you tell him to ignore it? Lol.
 
So because your brother was diagnosed with a murmur years ago with AAS use and no issues Frank should ignore it? That is horrible advice. I too was diagnosed with a mild heart murmur several years ago. Not sure what role AAS use played into it, if any.... but I eventually developed severe aortic stenosis. At that point I was told I had a 50% chance of living for 2 years. Uh, I opted to have aortic heart valve replacement surgery. Back in the gym, kicking butt, only 200mg test a week of course. But if I would have ignored it.... I would be dead
Where did I say he should ignore it?

You might want to read the entire post again Jr.
 
Point is he should let a cardiologist determine the severity of the murmur and enlarged heart, then take it from there. No amount of supps can fix a leaky heart valve
 
Point is he should let a cardiologist determine the severity of the murmur and enlarged heart, then take it from there. No amount of supps can fix a leaky heart valve
No, that's not the point.

The point of your post was I said not to worry about it.

Now, go ahead and admit you were wrong.

Also, focusing on heart health isn't only supps.... Again, making shit up
 
It was implied. Whatever. Happy Thanksgiving
Bullshit it was implied lol

You sound like a delusional feminist, "you're racist" liberal.

Always taking what YOU want from a conversation instead of talking it for what it says or, asking what the person meant.

Calves must be huge from jumping to conclusions


Happy Thanksgiving

And, No, I don't hate Indians because I said that since it's related to Columbus who killed Indians.

Gotta stay a step ahead.
 
Nothing for nothing,,,But over here we give our forum vets a little respect...Be glad times have changed,but they haven't chanced to the point where a junior 12 post member gives crap to one of our finest Mods...I have never seen Mont give anyone bad advice,infact I listen and learn....Quinn, do what you want but we are all here to help each other,that being said don't kick dirt in the face of a member that has decades of experience and is here doing a job....ONE day he may give you some very helpful info,or NOT..!!
 
Monte once told me to not use an AI so I started chugging down estrogen pills because he implied
I wasn’t going to be affected by estrogenz.

Lol! I was away for a while but see the kookiness continues.
 
It's like IFC............................always on slightly OFF
 
The genocide of natives was in retaliation to Columbus returning to find his crew members slaughtered. It is what it is, if it wasn’t them or that group or this race, it’d be another.

sorry for the off topic bullshit, just had to put that in there. Cuz I’m annoying.
 
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I don't mind debates and people questioning my statements, I actually in courage it. No one's words should be taken as gospel and you should always research further but, I don't like when people twist statements and think they're "knowing" enough to say what they think I meant.
 
I got it,,,,so, you don't mind knowing more than other people,but love debating....Yeah, that's it..!! LOL,,!!
 
I don't mind debates and people questioning my statements, I actually in courage it. No one's words should be taken as gospel and you should always research further but, I don't like when people twist statements and think they're "knowing" enough to say what they think I meant.

Yeah but... why were you telling Cabo to chug estrogen pills?

So wrong.
 
What was that thing Monte said about Indians pouring 2x1 drinks at the casinos on Columbusgiving day?

or did I read that wrong?
 
Something about he hates Indians,smart ass people,wait................. twister and concussions from jumping...................He's hard to follow,,but one hell of a good sport....
 
I went to see the dr a couple of weeks ago and was told that I had a heart murmur . I had an echo done yesterday and was told that I had some wooshing due to leaking valves and the left side of my heart was enlarged . The heart is functioning fine but is bigger than normal guess it’s time to give up the tren . Does anyone else have any info or knowledge on this .

One of my clients had a similar issue after running anadrol for 6 mo straight...went and quit everything. Id say try to slow down for a bit, maybe drop some weight and compounds


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
A-bombs for 6 months=death wish................
 
Anadrol for six months. Tren for a year. This is why I just don’t ever try to help in some of these threads. ANYWHERE on the internet you would find these things to be pretty much universally considered insane.

I saw some stupid shit before the internet but knowledge require work to obtain.

I used to have anal sex with Haitian junkies while I was having my blood transfusions but once someone on the internet told me it was risky behavior, I stopped. Apparently you can get your wallet stolen if you aren’t paying attention.
 
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