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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Montego1 View Post
    There you go again.....
    Correct.
    What will you do when your wife/girlfriend leaves you 3 weeks out? How will you handle the crushing demands of a contest prep? If your opponent eats rocks and dirt, will you eat rocks dirt and shit to beat him? All these questions must be answered before your even think about doing a show.
    Last edited by Procard; 10-19-2019 at 02:17 PM.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigswole88 View Post
    Coaching options

    Opinions on these 3 coaches and experiences
    1.) Patrick Tuor $3900 year
    2.) Matt Jansen $4200 year
    3.) AJ Sims $4100 year

    Has Anyone worked with any of them and if so what was your experience? Or do you know someone who has?
    How are their diet/food protocols, heavy or moderate protocols, and do they offer any advice, or just Diet/Drug Protocols?

    I am 5’5 210lbs currently...looking for a great coach for offseason and to guide me into USAs 2020 Vegas!
    Only interested in those 3 and as of now leaning towards Patrick or AJ!
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    I edited out that little embedded link to Promuscle forums.

  3. #18
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    Do you have the financial wherewithal to do a show? Is your life/job/family/mental construct stable enough to do a show? Do you have a fire burning hot inside you? Will you go from the hospital on Wednesday to the stage on Saturday?

    Most importantly, would you rather die than fail? If you will gladly do all these things, stick needles in your eyes then maybe, jus maybe, you are ready to do a show.

    If your answer is no to any of these then I recomend against competing. Instead, schedule a photo shoot to showcase your progress.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Procard View Post
    Do you have the financial wherewithal to do a show? Is your life/job/family/mental construct stable enough to do a show? Do you have a fire burning hot inside you? Will you go from the hospital on Wednesday to the stage on Saturday?

    Most importantly, would you rather die than fail? If you will gladly do all these things, stick needles in your eyes then maybe, jus maybe, you are ready to do a show.

    If your answer is no to any of these then I recomend against competing. Instead, schedule a photo shoot to showcase your progress.
    You don't need that mindset to do a show. Some poeple want to do it just for fun, for the challenge, the experience. Sure, winning is great but just the experience is enough to fulfill some people. Most of us are not professional bodybuilders and have no desire to be.

    Sent from my LG-H871 using Tapatalk

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by HPM3TAL View Post
    You don't need that mindset to do a show. Some poeple want to do it just for fun, for the challenge, the experience. Sure, winning is great but just the experience is enough to fulfill some people. Most of us are not professional bodybuilders and have no desire to be.

    Sent from my LG-H871 using Tapatalk

    You are, of course, free to do as you wish.

    I compete, and the people I prep compete for one and only for one reason: To win. I failed to do so at my last 2 shows, I placed 2nd. However I gave it 100% and have no regrets.
    Last edited by Procard; 10-19-2019 at 04:17 PM.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Procard View Post

    The most important thing is not milligrams and calories, it is mindset. Mindset must be established BEFORE any sort of prep can be undertaken.
    On this we more than agree. I support this statement emphatically.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by HPM3TAL View Post
    You don't need that mindset to do a show. Some poeple want to do it just for fun, for the challenge, the experience. Sure, winning is great but just the experience is enough to fulfill some people. Most of us are not professional bodybuilders and have no desire to be.

    Sent from my LG-H871 using Tapatalk
    If they want to do it for “fun”, they will soon find out how NOT fun it is. Seeing new striations and separations, veins that you didn’t know were there, etc. is pretty cool and motivating, but “fun”, I don’t think so.

    Going “to win” is also crazy. You have ZERO control over who shows up and even less over the sometimes ridiculous subjectivity of “judges”.
    That mindset for me was competing against myself. Can I do every single thing in my control to be the absolute best condition I can be in on the night of my choosing? Because that’s the rub man. And thinking adding more drugs will get you there in lieu of that strict mindset is where the problems are for today’s amateur competitor or would be competitor.

    A coach or trainer can’t give you these things, only verbal support.

    I attended a show last night and it was a travesty, for many, many reasons. One of the biggest things that upset me was this not taking BB seriously. These guys and girls, for the most part, showed no dedication or discipline nor did they seem to have any respect for the dais or the fans by showing up fat and altogether unprepared. The best of them looked 4 weeks out by my estimation. It seems they think that “putting in a solid effort”(verbally but not in practice) and augmenting with gear is the heart of how to do a show.
    I was embarrassed to think that if someone who thinks I am a BB saw that show, they definitely wouldn’t have gotten the right impression. I have never seen bikini chicks with such knots on their asses. Either the Bot Fly is rampant here or the same “coach” is pinning the same girls in the same place with the same “technique”.

    As far as choosing a coach, find one you “jibe” with, that you can afford long term and follow his/her advice to the letter.

  8. #23
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    Good stuff, Cabo. You are correct, you can't control who shows up, but you can control how you look. At my last show the guy who beat me was simply better.....nonetheless, I showed up 100% (well maybe 98%...I need to trim my midsection down). I was the best I could possibly be and have no regrets.

    There is one other thing that bears noting: There are two "approaches" that are critical to cover. One is what I call "details." A "detail" approach is necessary because one has to find out/establish what works for them, and doing so requires carful accounting of macros, milligrams, sets/reps, recovery etc.

    However, do not get lost in these details or think that they alone will make you a champion. Their purpose is to provide analysis and information. For example...counting everything taught me That I could eat way way more than I thought, and still come in shredded if cardio was high. I also learned the basic truth that the more drugs you take (up to around 3 grams/week) the better you look.

    Nonetheless, what wins shows is not details, the are necessary, but not sufficient. What wins shows (besides genetics) is mindset and principles. You must train harder than your opponent. You give everything....everything in the gym. You are then a rat on a treadmill for an hour or more everyday. You stick to an eating schedule (12 by 12 in my case). If your opponent does 8 reps, you do 10. If your opponent is eating rocks and dirt, and you have to eat rocks, dirt, and shit you eat shit. You must give EVERYTHING!

    That burning desire is what made bodybuilders look the way the did in the 90's (and the later Ronnie Coleman). Balls to the walls, I don't care if I die type training produced a certain look, that dense, grainy what in the hell is that?" look.

    Compare them with the look of the 2019 Olympians. That look is a "I did a pump up workout and then shot a ton of insulin" look we see today. These guys looked watery an smooth.

    This look has spread down to the regional and local level of the NPC. The powers that be reward this look because it is easier to achieve and draws more competitors, each paying more than $200 to compete.

    It is a joke, but its a revenue powerhouse for the NPC. In the past, someone with inferior genetics could win big shows if the were shredded, dense, and grainy. Those days seem to be over, the current trend is moving us away from hard core training and conditioning. The current trend, then, is to reward competitors who are not conditioned as long as the have shape and their waist is small.

    Focus upon details will give you this look (assuming you use enough insulin).

  9. #24
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    On the use of gear I couldn’t disagree more. You talk of the old days of bodybuilding but only the pro’s used a lot of steroids. I seem to remember much lower doses by top level NPC guys.
    As for “he does 8 reps, I do 10”, that just seems silly. Working harder doesn’t do shit for me but make me miserable. I work to level of which I know I achieve results yet can go about in the world in some semblance of normalcy. Plastic trophies mean jack shit. I get the greatest sense of achievement by making the most of what I have and accomplishing what I can. I definitely don’t do it to one up another person. They mean jack shit to me too.

    I seem to remember your being miserable before your show and planning on doing the Nationals to get your procard. That turned into a regional show and not a win. Only you can decide if it was worth it. For me, no way.

  10. #25
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    What do you mean when you say old school? In the 80's, yes guys used a lot less gear. I trained at Body and Power which produced some of the best bodybuilders in the country. Rich Piana camefrom here and there were other better bodybuilders. Riches mom, Evonne, still trains today in her late 60's. 600 mgs/week was considered a high dose back then. Same in the 70's, when gear was used primarily for contest prep.

    By the 1990s gear use escalated, but GH was new, and insulin abuse was non existent. Dorian was one of the first to use large amounts of GH (up to 36 iu's a day) but he did not rely upon inslin because it hurt his conditioning. The original mass monsters were built on hard training, not insulin as they are today, and their physiques reflect this fact.

    Yes, I got sick during my prep. Yes, my wife left me. It id not matter. I am grateful for the challenges I faced and would not do anything differently. Second place at the South West USA and Texas State is no small shake. The guy who beat me at the SWUSA was 271 lbs on stage and at the Texas State he placed 5th in open at nationals (and will get a pro card). I lost to the best. My pictures testify. Tx shows are touger than CA now (I won one). I currently need complete shoulder replacement, can barely walk, and have severe arthritis in my right hip. Bu guess what, I am still training and am on track to make another run at my procard. In 2.5 years I will be in the 60 and over class. I have put on size where needed and made good progress trimming my midsection down. I am confident that I will be very hard to beat.

    I will go out on stage in a walker if necessary. This sport is dangerous, but I do not worry about that, I only focus upon training and improving.

    Speakingof witch

    Bodybuilding was an odd and unusual endeavor, and we liked t that way. We did not care about attracting the pussis and faggots that the NPC caters tonowadays. There were thousands of people in the audienes a shows because thepeopleon stage belonged there.
    Last edited by Procard; 10-20-2019 at 04:45 PM.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Procard View Post
    Bodybuilding was an odd and unusual endeavor, and we liked t that way. We did not care about attracting the pussis and faggots that the NPC caters tonowadays. There were thousands of people in the audienes a shows because thepeopleon stage belonged there.
    I hate to agree with you here but I do, pejoratives aside. I was competing 30 years ago, Olympia competitors and other pro’s would frequently be in the audience and come up and talk with you. I won’t name drop here but many, many of top guys I had interactions with very frequently. There was absolutely no celebrity status. Guys just would show up in the gym you were at and sometimes ask to train with you. I liked the small circle that bodybuilding was. I think the Steroid Act created criminal enterprise much like did the Volstead Act and the vibe changed very quickly.

    But BB was dying. Bikini, both women’s and men’s bikini changed that, sending new life into the NPC, IFBB, etc. At the same time it put traditional BBers into the weirdo/freak column. 50 bikinis in 5 classes, a shitload of boardshorters and maybe 5-8 BB show up per class, if lucky.
    My first show had 21 guys in middleweight novice alone. The guy I came second to at the Palm Springs lost the overall to Flex Wheeler at the Cal In 1989. That was the golden era to me. I have yet to see anyone win the Nationals as good as the guys were back then.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by CoachCabo View Post
    I hate to agree with you here but I do, pejoratives aside. I was competing 30 years ago, Olympia competitors and other pro’s would frequently be in the audience and come up and talk with you. I won’t name drop here but many, many of top guys I had interactions with very frequently. There was absolutely no celebrity status. Guys just would show up in the gym you were at and sometimes ask to train with you. I liked the small circle that bodybuilding was. I think the Steroid Act created criminal enterprise much like did the Volstead Act and the vibe changed very quickly.

    But BB was dying. Bikini, both women’s and men’s bikini changed that, sending new life into the NPC, IFBB, etc. At the same time it put traditional BBers into the weirdo/freak column. 50 bikinis in 5 classes, a shitload of boardshorters and maybe 5-8 BB show up per class, if lucky.
    My first show had 21 guys in middleweight novice alone. The guy I came second to at the Palm Springs lost the overall to Flex Wheeler at the Cal In 1989. That was the golden era to me. I have yet to see anyone win the Nationals as good as the guys were back then.
    Flex won the Contra Costa the year before I did it. However, I placed 5th, LOL. I prepped on test only, 750 mgs a week. It would be another year before I learned what the top guys were really doing. There are lots of stories of Flex eating Burger King 3 weeks out from the Olympia. Jonnie Bovino was the best posing coach and helped me.

    The basic formula for all the guys out of So Cal back then was lots of gear on a heavy test base, lots of cardio, I did 2 hours a day as per instruction, and more food. Their carb intake was relatively high. Only the top guys were able to afford GH. Dorian ushered in the heavy GH use, but no one was abusing insulin yet. It insulin that has ruined conditioning.

    However, shows had a good draw back then. These were big CA shows with lots of quality physiques, but audiences were large. Today there are some very strong bodybuilders here in Texas. At the State Championship there were 3-4 national level guys in each of the open classes. Of course everyone was gone or asleep by the time they came out.

    MY question is, if shows were 100% bodybuilders wouldn't people attend? When you only have body building night shows are fast paced (over in an hour and a half) and fun.
    Last edited by Procard; 10-20-2019 at 08:01 PM.

  13. #28
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    Bodybuilding shows are boring. Only BBers and those directly involved would go. From 1988-90 I never missed a show from Sylmar down.
    BB shows are popular here because from what I can tell by the blatant ogling at the gym by mostly guys, Mexicans are all closet homo’s. Even the Mexicans in Seattle were staring at me last year at the LA Fitness. Not that I don’t appreciate anyone checking me out. Just calling it how I see it.
    The shows I attended in Spokane last year were the size of the smallest of shows from the 80s. Except for the 100 bikini chicks. I hate going to shows now because of them. That ass sticking out to the audience and the overdone alien implants is too much for me...and my wife.

    When you said “So Cal” guys, you must mean pro’s, because I was deeply involved in the So Cal BB world from 87-91 and most of the amateurs I remember used less than half of what the average Joe on this forum uses just to look “swole” for the ladies (or whatever the reason?).

  14. #29
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    Yes, I am referring to the pros, Chris Cormier, Chris Duffy (That Chris Duffy) Flex, Baker et all. Crazy Chris Duffy showed up in San Francisco in 1994 wanting to start a marijuana growing business. I hooked him up with the biggest pot dealer in SF and Chris hooked me with the prep coach for all the So Cal guys. Initially I was shocked at the amount of food, cardio, and drugs, but I came in the best shape ever.

    There was also a diuretic formula that is closely guarded still today. The diuretic formula is kept away from the public, even today. Originally it is a 9 day program. I use a modified/scaled down version half the dose, 4 days) but only with athletes I am prepping hands on. Chris told me the Northern Europeans run diuretics for up to 30 days and think that the Americans are pussies.

    After the Olympia the pros would all tour together. They stayed in the same hotels. Everyone knew what everyone else was taking. Sonny Schmidt would take a scoop of clenbuterol paste and just throw it in his morning cereal. Dorian, of course did not tour but his drug cycle was common knowledge. Dorian ran 3 sustenon a day (5 grams per week) and 200 mgs of anavar per day. Chris said that Dorian was the only one who did not give him shit for being gay. I actually asked Dorian about this, and he laughed.

    I have stories so fucking crazy you would not believe me if I told. Intravenous drug use, gay for pay, whiskey...Were the audience here more civilized I would tell.

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    Andrew Vu is a good coach and still reasonable at the moment.. but not for long.

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